randip singh

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh where does Bhagat Kabir Ji say the things which are not compatible with Sikhi? did he write more which hasn't been included in Bani? where? sorry for the ignorance - just haven't heard of the company-of-women-being-evil/immoral reference before. ~l~ vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh Check page 116 in this essay by Daljeet Singh. http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/sd.pdf He describes woman as a Black Cobra.........."Woman ruins everything when she comes near man: Devotion, salvation and divine knowledge no longer enter his soul" One shouldn't be disheartened that Kabir ji had such views...................since Guru Nanak only took the views of Bhagats that were common to the views of the Sikh or Sikhism. He dicarded the rest. A great example of this is Sheikh Farid.....a devout Muslim who had devout views about Islam.................Guru Nanak discarded his views on Islam and kept those that were common to his view. In this same way, Guru Nanak disregarded Bhagat Kabirs Vaishnav views (on women, ahimsa etc).................and kept those PS KalSingh...................I suggest if you don't understand something, then keep your mouth and views to yourself, before expressing diatribe on this forum. I have not insulted Bhagat Kabir as you claim but pointed out fact. I am a Sikh and not a Kabir Panthi.............................Kabir Panthi's are nothing to do with Sikhism. Their views are generally alien to Sikhism.

Dear Sikh, The debate you joined in on at sikhphilosophy is not shite: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-si...over-flesh.html The Guru Granth Sahib ji does not condone any form of diet vegetarian or meat. If you believe vegetarian is the best way for spirituality then follow it. If you believe meat eating is the best way to spirituality, then follow it. As for Langaar........I do not believe meat should be served at Langaar - WHY? - Langaar originally as started by Guru Nanak is open too all. If you started including meat, then it would excluded a section of society. Meat eaters tend not to object to vegetarian food wheras vegetarians tend to be (exception being Kurtas), militant in their views about meat. If meat were included there would be debates over Halaal, Kosher, Pork, Beef etc. Therefore, Langaar should be kept vegetarian. Saying that there are some sects that believe Onion and Garlic should be avoided.....so even with vegetarian diet you will get desenters. You could argue blah blah blah about meat eatng, but as Guru Nanak said: Page 1289 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji mehlaa 1. maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai. ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay. gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay. maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay. farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai. naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai. anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee. maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee. First Mehl: The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom. What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering. Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night. They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom. O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji No point arguing. Follow your own conscience. As a Gurmukh, your conscience will tell what is OK. In fact when you reach that stage, it will not matter what you eat. Eat and Drink what is good for your mind and body. Do not take substances that will harm it. Do not practice "Duality or Hypocrasy" as Kurtas has pointed out........in one breath you condem meat eaters then in the other you talk of liking Quorn Chicken substitute. Do not pevert Bani, by taking one or two lines out and claiming this is the law of Bani.............Sant Mat followers do this.....that is why they will be condemed as mischief makers like their Mahant predecessors, in years to come. Best Wishes

Nice THANKS! :nihungsmile: I've been after this for ages....great to see they are releasing it so us UK people can acces it. Listen to it every morning on my way to work......really good if someone cuts you up.....as this calms me down. :D

I thought this was great. Combined some modern sounds with some great melodies....great voice too. http://www.emusic.com/album/10979/10979501.html

The link does not explain why the years listed are acceptbale and why the belief that he lived for 120 years is not correct. The link does explain it..........Read the sources that cite the dates in the article. To be frank....I don't trust Kabir Panthis, who claim he lived for 120 years. They case this on hearsay, and historical records quoted there contradict this......by saying Guru Nanak met Kabir....Kabir Panthis then claim Sikhism to be an extension of the Bhakhti movement.....clearly not so.

Some misconceptions about Bhaghat Kabir spread by Hindu Vaishnav's are: 1) He met Guru Nanak - UNTRUE - http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/kabir.html . Guru Nanak never met Bhagat Kabir he was dead by the time Guru Nanak was born. 2) He was a Hindu Brahmin - UNTRUE - He was a devout Muslim who saw the hypocrasy of Islam. He criticised both Islam and Hinduism. By caste he was a Jlaha or weaver. 3) BHagat Kabir Bani is an extension od Sikhism - UNTRUE - Guru ji only included elements of the Bhagats Bani that was compatible with Sikhism. For example Bhagat Kabir talks about the company of women being immoral/evil. This is at odds with Sikh teaching that talks about Kings and Prices being born from women. With all Bhagat Bani's only compatible or common threads with Sikhism are included. 4) Bhagat Kabir took Amrit - UNTRUE - the formal ceremony of Amrit was introduced by the 10th Master. Bhagat Kabir was long dead by then. The ceremony of Charan Amrit was used to pass on Guruship. Kabir was no Sikh Guru.

These anti-beadbedi campaigns are counterproductive. They make us look like extremists. The human form of Guruji went everywhere.......I do not feel Guruji needs protecton like this........just my thoughts.

Intrnational Akali has summed up my feelings on this issue and this is what I feel: Guruji traveled to the for corners of the civilised world, discoursed with the most brilliant minds of the time, fought major battle, sacrificed their lives and that of their families, gathered all the knowledge and enshrined it in Bani, emancipated poor people from bondage, gave us titles of Kings and Princesses (Singh and Kaur), gave us an insight into truth and the nature of God, described the nature of the Universe and existence, saw good in ALL religions...............and what for? All this cumalative knowledge and sacrifice was about whether someone should eat a chicken nugget or not? Think about it.........think how much of an insult it is to make Bani into an a-la-carte menu of what you can eat and can't eat? All this philosophy, knowledge and spiritual teaching being denigrated to the status of a restraunt menu? Is that not a slap in the face of our Guru? Why do insecure people keep raising this issue? Bani will show you how to be a Gurmukh........and when you get to that stage it you really will only eat what is good for your mind and body.....for some that might be vege for some it maybe meat!! I urge you all.....think about why you need to raise this topic over and over again? Why do you need sticks to beat fellow Sikhs with who may eat meat? Raise yourself above this issue................some people will be stuck at this low level for their entire life (usually people from Leeds ) ................don't be a sheep...........be a SIKH......learn. Why did the Guru call the Jain corrupt? ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ pa-orhee. Pauree: ਇਕਿ ਜੈਨੀ ਉਝੜ ਪਾਇ ਧੁਰਹੁ ਖੁਆਇਆ ॥ इकि जैनी उझड़ पाइ धुरहु खुआइआ ॥ ik jainee ujharh paa-ay Dharahu khu-aa-i-aa. Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined. ਤਿਨ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਇਆ ॥ तिन मुखि नाही नामु न तीरथि न्हाइआ ॥ tin mukh naahee naam na tirath nHaa-i-aa. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not on their lips; they do not bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage. ਹਥੀ ਸਿਰ ਖੋਹਾਇ ਨ ਭਦੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥ हथी सिर खोहाइ न भदु कराइआ ॥ hathee sir khohaa-ay na bhad karaa-i-aa. They pull out their hair with their hands, instead of shaving. ਕੁਚਿਲ ਰਹਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ कुचिल रहहि दिन राति सबदु न भाइआ ॥ kuchil raheh din raat sabad na bhaa-i-aa. They remain unclean day and night; they do not love the Word of the Shabad. ਤਿਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਪਤਿ ਨ ਕਰਮੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥ तिन जाति न पति न करमु जनमु गवाइआ ॥ tin jaat na pat na karam janam gavaa-i-aa. They have no status, no honor, and no good karma. They waste away their lives in vain. ਮਨਿ ਜੂਠੈ ਵੇਜਾਤਿ ਜੂਠਾ ਖਾਇਆ ॥ मनि जूठै वेजाति जूठा खाइआ ॥ man joothai vayjaat joothaa khaa-i-aa. Their minds are false and impure; that which they eat is impure and defiled. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਆਚਾਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ बिनु सबदै आचारु न किन ही पाइआ ॥ bin sabdai aachaar na kin hee paa-i-aa. Without the Shabad, no one achieves a lifestyle of good conduct. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੧੬॥ गुरमुखि ओअंकारि सचि समाइआ ॥१६॥ gurmukh o-ankaar sach samaa-i-aa. ||16|| The Gurmukh is absorbed in the True Lord God, the Universal Creator. ||16|| They too are obsessed with this issue?

If you have a copy of the Amrit Keertan Pothee, you may want to turn to the pages from 656 to 659 and you will see their shabads by Bhagat Kabir Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji as well as well as Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji, which are depicting "sab jeean te deya karnee". (Have compassion for all living things) Here are a few sloks which outrightly prohibits meat comsumption. Not so…this is Hindu Vaishnav spin. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not an a-la-carte menu for what we should and shouldn't eat. To bring our Guru down to this level is an insult to Bani. Kabeer jeea ju maraih jor kar, kaihte hai jo halaal daftar daee jab kaaDh hai, hoigaa koan havaal.//199// (1375.G.G.S.) Sayeth Kabir, sayeth thou by "forcefully" killing living beings, Halaal. When in God's house, your accounts be taken, what will then there happen to you! Kabeer jor keeaa su julam hai, lay-e jabaab khudaae daftar lekhaa neeksai, maar muhai muh khaae.//200// (1375) Wrong. This is nothing to do with meat eating but to do with animal sacrifice or purification rituals ….namely Halaal. Read on: Here is the entire shabad: oraa gar paanee bha-i-aa jaa-ay mili-o dhal kool. kabeeraa Dhoor sakayl kai puree-aa baaNDhee dayh. divas chaar ko paykhnaa ant khayh kee khayh. kabeer sooraj chaaNd kai udai bha-ee sabh dayh. gur gobind kay bin milay palat bha-ee sabh khayh. jah anbha-o tah bhai nahee jah bha-o tah har naahi. kahi-o kabeer bichaar kai sant sunhu man maahi. kabeer jinahu kichhoo jaani-aa nahee tin sukh need bihaa-ay. hamhu jo boojhaa boojhnaa pooree paree balaa-ay. laagee chot maramm kee rahi-o kabeeraa tha-ur. kabeer chot suhaylee sayl kee laagat lay-ay usaas. chot sahaarai sabad kee taas guroo mai daas. kabeer mulaaN munaaray ki-aa chadheh saaN-ee na bahraa ho-ay. jaa kaaran tooN baaNg deh dil hee bheetar jo-ay. saykh sabooree baahraa ki-aa haj kaabay jaa-ay. kabeer jaa kee dil saabat nahee taa ka-o kahaaN khudaa-ay. kabeer alah kee kar bandagee jih simrat dukh jaa-ay. dil meh saaN-ee pargatai bujhai balantee naaN-ay. kabeer joree kee-ay julam hai kahtaa naa-o halaal. daftar laykhaa maaNgee-ai tab ho-igo ka-un havaal. kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon. hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un. kabeer gur laagaa tab jaanee-ai mitai moh tan taap. harakh sog daajhai nahee tab har aapeh aap. kabeer raam kahan meh bhayd hai taa meh ayk bichaar. so-ee raam sabhai kaheh so-ee ka-utakhaar. kabeer raamai raam kaho kahibay maahi bibayk. ayk anaykeh mil ga-i-aa ayk samaanaa ayk. kabeer jaa ghar saaDh na sayvee-ah har kee sayvaa naahi. tay ghar marhat saarkhay bhoot baseh tin maahi. kabeer goongaa hoo-aa baavraa bahraa hoo-aa kaan. paavhu tay pingul bha-i-aa maari-aa satgur baan. kabeer satgur soormay baahi-aa baan jo ayk. laagat hee bhu-ay gir pari-aa paraa karayjay chhayk. kabeer nirmal boond akaas kee par ga-ee bhoom bikaar. The hail-stone has melted into water, and flowed into the ocean. Kabeer, the body is a pile of dust, collected and packed together. It is a show which lasts for only a few days, and then dust returns to dust. Kabeer, bodies are like the rising and setting of the sun and the moon. Without meeting the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, they are all reduced to dust again. Where the Fearless Lord is, there is no fear; where there is fear, the Lord is not there. Kabeer speaks after careful consideration; hear this, O Saints, in your minds. Kabeer, those who do not know anything, pass their lives in peaceful sleep. But I have understood the riddle; I am faced with all sorts of troubles. Struck by the Mystery of God, Kabeer remains silent. Kabeer, the stroke of a lance is easy to bear; it takes away the breath. But one who endures the stroke of the Word of the Shabad is the Guru, and I am his slave. Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing. Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers. Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself? Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord? Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart. The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name. Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal. When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt. Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? Kabeer, one is known to have been touched by the Guru, only when his emotional attachment and physical illnesses are eradicated. He is not burned by pleasure or pain, and so he becomes the Lord Himself. Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. Kabeer, those houses in which neither the Holy nor the Lord are served – those houses are like cremation grounds; demons dwell within them. Kabeer, I have become mute, insane and deaf. I am crippled - the True Guru has pierced me with His Arrow. Kabeer, the True Guru, the Spiritual Warrior, has shot me with His Arrow. As soon as it struck me, I fell to the ground, with a hole in my heart. Kabeer, the pure drop of water falls from the sky, onto the dirty ground. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji The lines above are translated slightly differently, but put in context the meaning in the same. This shabad is actually talking about is the hypocrasy and tyranny practiced by Mullahs. I suggest you study History Khalistani Lioness. During the time of Kabir Timur/Tarmalane invaded India…………he (Kabir), was a Muslim himself but had very good Hindu friends…………….he witnessed whole sale massacres of Hindu's…………quite frankly he was disgusted with his so called fellow Muslims behaviour. Most of his Shabads attack the Mullah's behaviour. So now when you read the entire shabad in context it has a totally different meaning. Sayeth Kabir, using force is unlawful, God shall question this. when your accounts will be opened, you shall reap on your face a God's wrath. As for the line : Kabeer khoob khaanaa kheecharee, jaa mai amrit loon, heyraa rotee kaarney, galaa kataavai kaon! (1378) heyraa=meat by hunting Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating, kichree=dals where nectar-sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut?! Wrong translation………if you read the above shabad this is out of context. This is more akin to "cutting your nose of to spite your face". It is saying you wouldn't hunt yourself just to eat….so why are you going round killing other people? The whole shabad is about those people that use force and tyranny against other human beings. Read about the invasion of Timur and put it in context. Bed Kateb kahaih mat jhootey, jhootaa jo naa bichaarai, jo sabh mai ek khudaae kahait ho, tio kio murgee marai?! (1350) Do not say that the vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one God, then why does one kill the hen! Wrong and taken out of context again. Bearing in mind Kabir ji attacked Islamic rituals, this is a reference to another Islamic ritual, which is done one Eid. This is when a Goat or Chicken is kept at home by the family for the period of fasting as a member of the family. It is in effect a family member. Then at the end of this period it is offered as an appeasement or sacrifice to God…………..this is to emulate the Prophet Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his only son to God…….at the last minute Abraham was stopped by God because he saw Abraham was willing to do anything for him and a Goat offered in its place. No read the shabad bearing the above facts in mind: bayd katayb kahhu mat jhoothay jhoothaa jo na bichaarai. ja-o sabh meh ayk khudaa-ay kahat ha-o ta-o ki-o murgee maarai. mulaaN kahhu ni-aa-o khudaa-ee. tayray man kaa bharam na jaa-ee. rahaa-o. pakar jee-o aani-aa dayh binaasee maatee ka-o bismil kee-aa. jot saroop anaahat laagee kaho halaal ki-aa kee-aa. ki-aa ujoo paak kee-aa muhu Dho-i-aa ki-aa maseet sir laa-i-aa. ja-o dil meh kapat nivaaj gujaarahu ki-aa haj kaabai jaa-i-aa. tooN naapaak paak nahee soojhi-aa tis kaa maram na jaani-aa. kahi kabeer bhisat tay chookaa dojak si-o man maani-aa. Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice? The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. Pause You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay. The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji When the Muslims heard this from Kabir ji they hung their heads in shame………….on the one hand they are offering a sacrifice………….on the other they are saying God created everything………….so what is the point of killing something that God has created and offering it to him? It is like me owning the world biggest choclate factory and you offering me choclates………..seems ridicoulous…..and that is what Kabir ji attackes here. Kabeer bhang mashalee suraapaan, jo jo pranee khaan-he teerath barat neym kee-ey, te sabh rasaatal jaan-he (1377) suraapaan=alcohol rasaatal=below hell, underground. Those people who drink bhang, eat fish, drink alcohol, and do ritual bathing, keep fast, all shall be burried underground. Agagin a wrong misinterpretation….if you study Kabir ji's life then you realise this is not what this shabad is getting at: mukat padaarath paa-ee-ai thaak na avghat ghaat. 231 kabeer ayk gharhee aaDhee gharee aaDhee hooN tay aaDh. bhagtan saytee gostay jo keenay so laabh. 232 kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi. tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. 233 neechay lo-in kar raha-o lay saajan ghat maahi. sabh ras khayla-o pee-a sa-o kisee lakhaava-o naahi. 234 aath jaam cha-usath gharee tu-a nirkhat rahai jee-o. neechay lo-in ki-o kara-o sabh ghat daykh-a-u pee-o. 235 sun sakhee pee-a meh jee-o basai jee-a meh basai ke pee-o. jee-o pee-o boojha-o nahee ghat meh jee-o ke pee-o. 236 kabeer baaman guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa gur naahi. arajh urajh kai pach moo-aa chaara-o baydahu maahi.237 har hai khaaNd rayt meh bikhree haathee chunee na jaa-ay. kahi kabeer gur bhalee bujhaa-ee keetee ho-ay kai khaa-ay. 238 kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee sees kaat kar go-ay. khaylat khaylat haal kar jo kichh ho-ay ta ho-ay. 239 kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee paakay saytee khayl. kaachee sarsa-uN payl kai naa khal bha-ee na tayl.240 dhooNdhat doleh anDh gat ar cheenat naahee sant. kahi naamaa ki-o paa-ee-ai bin bhagtahu bhagvant. 241 har so heeraa chhaad kai karahi aan kee aas. tay nar dojak jaahigay sat bhaakhai ravidaas. 242 kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag. bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243 He obtains the treasure of liberation, and the difficult road to the Lord is not blocked. 231 Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that, whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. 232 Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. 233 Kabeer, I keep my eyes lowered, and enshrine my Friend within my heart. I enjoy all pleasures with my Beloved, but I do not let anyone else know.234 Twenty-four hours a day, every hour, my soul continues to look to You, O Lord. Why should I keep my eyes lowered? I see my Beloved in every heart. 235 Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul. I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. 236 Kabeer, the Brahmin may be the guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the devotees. He rots and dies in the perplexities of the four Vedas. 237 The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up. Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. 238 Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball. Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. 239 Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, play it with someone with committment. Pressing the unripe mustard seeds produces neither oil nor flour. 240 Searching, the mortal stumbles like a blind person, and does not recognize the Saint. Says Naam Dayv, how can one obtain the Lord God, without His devotee? Firstly note that maachlee is not flesh, but is indeed fish. The word in Punjabi for flesh is maas. Then secondly one must ask, why is there a forbidding in the consumption of fish specifically. The answer lies in reading the entire paragraph and a picture emerges. kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag. Kabeer, if you live the householder's life, then practice righteousness; otherwise, you might as well retire from the world. bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243 If someone renounces the world, and then gets involved in worldly entanglements, he shall suffer terrible misfortune. 243 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Now putting this in its entire context what Bhagat Kabir is actually criticising in the rich and those in power. The thrill seekers, who are addicted to their senses and those addicted to the 5 thieves. Kabir was born around the area of Benares, and was brought up in a poor Muslim weavers family. He saw the excesses of the rich around him, while the poor starved. Foods like fish and wine were associated with the rich who had an excessive disposable income. Marijuana was associated with either idol people or those who had time and money to waste. Kabir abhorred this, and this statement is a social comment about the excesses of the rich. At the end he clearly states, that those people who do their duties as householders (i.e. work hard, care for other etc) are the ones who will be liberated, and those who live by excesses will suffer Jeea badh-hu su dharam kar thaaphu, adharam kaih-hu kat bhaaee. Aapas kao munivar kar thaphu, ka kao kaih-hu kaasaaee? (1102-1103) munivar-saintly people kaasaaee-butchers badh-hu=killing On killing animals you have created your religion (the path of righteousness), then my brother what do we say is not religion (righteousness?) You call yourself, saintly people, then who do we call butchers?! Wrong and out of context: The shabad below: Page 1102, Line 18 raag maaroo banee kabeer jee-o kee Raag Maaroo, The Word Of Kabeer Jee: view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1102, Line 18 ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1102, Line 19 padee-aa kavan kumat tum laagay. O Pandit, O religious scholar, in what foul thoughts are you engaged? Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1102, Line 19 bood-hugay parvaar sakal si-o raam na japahu abhaagay. ||1|| rahaa-o. You shall be drowned, along with your family, if you do not meditate on the Lord, you unfortunate person. ||1||Pause|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1102, Line 19 bayd puraan parhay kaa ki-aa gun khar chandan jas bhaaraa. What is the use of reading the Vedas and the Puraanas? It is like loading a donkey with sandalwood. Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 1 raam naam kee gat nahee jaanee kaisay utras paaraa. ||1|| You do not know the exalted state of the Lord's Name; how will you ever cross over? ||1|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 2 jee-a baDhahu so Dharam kar thaapahu aDhram kahhu kat bhaa-ee. You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 2 aapas ka-o munivar kar thaapahu kaa ka-o kahhu kasaa-ee. ||2|| You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher? ||2|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 3 man kay anDhay aap na boojhhu kaahi bujhaavahu bhaa-ee. You are blind in your mind, and do not understand your own self; how can you make others understand, O brother? Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 3 maa-i-aa kaaran bidi-aa baychahu janam abirathaa jaa-ee. ||3|| For the sake of Maya and money, you sell knowledge; your life is totally worthless. ||3|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 4 naarad bachan bi-aas kahat hai suk ka-o poochhahu jaa-ee. Naarad and Vyaasa say these things; go and ask Suk Dayv as well. Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 4 kahi kabeer raamai ram chhootahu naahi ta booday bhaa-ee. ||4||1|| Says Kabeer, chanting the Lord's Name, you shall be saved; otherwise, you shall drown, brother. ||4||1|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 5 baneh basay ki-o paa-ee-ai ja-o la-o manhu na tajeh bikaar. Living in the forest, how will you find Him? Not until you remove corruption from your mind. Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 6 jih ghar ban samsar kee-aa tay pooray sansaar. ||1|| Those who look alike upon home and forest, are the most perfect people in the world. ||1|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 6 saar sukh paa-ee-ai raamaa. You shall find real peace in the Lord, Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 6 rang ravhu aatmai raam. ||1|| rahaa-o. if you lovingly dwell on the Lord within your being. ||1||Pause|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 7 jataa bhasam laypan kee-aa kahaa gufaa meh baas. What is the use of wearing matted hair, smearing the body with ashes, and living in a cave? Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 7 man jeetay jag jeeti-aa jaaN tay bikhi-aa tay ho-ay udaas. ||2|| Conquering the mind, one conquers the world, and then remains detached from corruption. ||2|| Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 8 anjan day-ay sabhai ko-ee tuk chaahan maahi bidaan. They all apply make-up to their eyes; there is little difference between their objectives. Devotee Kabir - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok Page 1103, Line 8 gi-aan anjan jih paa-i-aa tay lo-in parvaan. ||3|| But those eyes, to which the ointment of spiritual wisdom is applied, are approved and supreme. ||3|| What Kabir ji is attacking here is the Sanyasi's and hindu priests who were strict vegetarians themselves and yet they would perform animal sacrifice on auspicious occaisions. If you read the entire shabad and not quote one or two line you will see for yourself. There are many more as well by Bhai Gurdas ji, // 31 pouRee 9 je kasaaee udhariaa, jeea ghaae na khaaeeaa bhungaa. Just because the Guru has saved the butcher, that does not mean that we should kill animals and eat them. (Need to read the whole // to understand the first half of my statement!) Bhai Gurdas talks very cryptically and this is not a straight forward meaning. Here is an example: Pauri 13 (Bakari de alankar ton upades) Hasati akhaju guman kari sihu satana koi na khai Hoi nimani bakari din duni vadiai pai Maranai paranai maniai jag bhog paravanu karai Masu pavitr grihast no andhahu tar vichari vajai Chamare dian kari jutia sadhu charan saran liv lai Tur pakhavaj maride kiratanu sadh sangati sukhadai Sadh sangati satigur saranai Pauri 13 - (Lesson from goat) The proud elephant is inedible and none eats the mighty lion. Goat is humble and hence is is respected everywhere. On occaissions of death, joy, marriage, yajna, etc only its meat is accepted. Among the householders its meat is acknowledged as sacred and with its gut stringed instruments are made. From its leather the shoes are made to be used by the the saints merged in their meditation upon the Lord. Drums are mounted by its skin and then in the holy congregation the delight-giving kirtan, eulogy of the Lord is sung. In fact, going to the holy congregation is the same as going to the shelter of the true Guru Does this mean we all eat goats? I think not. Guru Arjan Dev Ji says, Pg 201 Bed PaRai mukh meeTee BaNee, Jeean kuhat na sangai praaNee. sangai=ashamed kuhat-kill praaNee-humans Jeean-living beings After reading the entire shabad, this line depicts, that the so called learned, saintly people read the sweet hymns of the Veds using their mouths, however they do not hesitate(feel ashamed) to kill animals. "If you say that God resides in all, why do you kill a hen?" (ang.1375) "It is foolish to kill animals by cruelty and call it sanctified food." (ang. 1375) "You kill life and call it an act of religion. Then what is irreligion?" (ang. 1103). Undoubtedly, animal food is largely used for satisfying the human palate. To eat meat only for the satisfaction of one's taste or appetite is not good. Kabir says, "You keep fasts in order to become acceptable to God, but kill a living animal for your relish." (ang.483). This refers to the eating of meat by Muslims after breaking the religious fast. Guru Amardas says: "Those who take dirty food increase their filth; such filth causes sorrow to the egocentric person." (p.121) The rest of what you write is just repeats of the above. You need to do more research…..and look at deeper meanings. Read http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-si...over-flesh.html For an indepth study into this issue. Some great input.

Bundha you are in no position to be preaching to anyone. We already proved you use doctored quotes on your site www.mis-info-sikh.com........................first start being honest and prest the facts then start preaching...............till then stop preaching!!! PS...and who says you are a sikh Mr Shiv Kumar?

I know I can’t stop you from posting I just requested meat eaters not to Post because I know and understand your point of view…Glad to see you think you have valid input though! Mr Rude Reply from a rude person!!! :lol: sorry for being rude mate....but this ust ticks me off............... Apoligies....

Brother read the above link in the post.........it is affecting someone right NOW!!! A brother of a good friend of mine from www.sikh-history.com.

You cannot stop anyone posting anywhere here friend.............stupid topic from a stupid person!!!

Read the link....its shocking: http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...t=000823#000003 Especially since it involves one of our members.

bump

Remember folks....all vote for Monty Panesar at the Sports Personailty of the Year Awards: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_rad...ear/6196834.stm Can we have a sticky to remind people. Sunday 10th December, you vote online. Please copy and paste this onto friends and other sites. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_rad...ear/6166600.stm

I doubt it very much. He is no stooge....read his articles also condeming the GOI. End of the day....he is entitled to his opinion.................although I supported some of Sant Bhindranwala's views.....I was also opposed to some..............thats called democracy!

I always went to all events....just to show the Goray that there was no place that a Turbaned Sikh could not go.....I wanted people to see me and come up to me and ask questions......thats how people understand and realise what Sikhism is.....by seeing us visibly!!!!

I have wondered about what has happened to the idea of Gurmatta ....or consensus that was around since the time of the Sikh Misl's? Why are you judging a book by its cover? I have met Mona's who put my Sikh convistion's (and 99% of people on this site) to shame. Don't go down that route friend.

I have watched and read the debate, and I was trying to watch out for offensive comments and offensive behaviour..........there was none.......Ghagga appeared to be an honourable man.........he definitelty seems well read. The debate What pains me is to see the fighting going on at the temple...........I actually toyed at the time of leaving Sikhism when I saw the brawl video..........such was my hurt and sorrow at the state of Sikhism..............we cannot even allow people to speak freely...........BUT then waheguroo spoke to me reading Bani that night: Page 44 ਜਿਸ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਨ ਗਹੇ ॥੨॥ जिस कउ पूरबि लिखिआ तिनि सतिगुर चरन गहे ॥२॥ jis ka-o poorab likhi-aa tin satgur charan gahay. ||2|| Those who have such pre-ordained destiny hold tight to the Feet of the True Guru. ||2|| ਸਫਲ ਮੂਰਤੁ ਸਫਲਾ ਘੜੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਸਚੇ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ सफल मूरतु सफला घड़ी जितु सचे नालि पिआरु ॥ safal moorat saflaa gharhee jit sachay naal pi-aar. Fruitful is that moment, and fruitful is that time, when one is in love with the True Lord. ਦੂਖੁ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥ दूखु संतापु न लगई जिसु हरि का नामु अधारु ॥ dookh santaap na lag-ee jis har kaa naam aDhaar. Suffering and sorrow do not touch those who have the Support of the Name of the Lord. ਬਾਹ ਪਕੜਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਕਾਢਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਉਤਰਿਆ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥ बाह पकड़ि गुरि काढिआ सोई उतरिआ पारि ॥३॥ baah pakarh gur kaadhi-aa so-ee utri-aa paar. ||3|| Grasping him by the arm, the Guru lifts them up and out, and carries them across to the other side. ||3||

I think the point is you can. Bhaghat Ravi Das was a leatherworker, Bhaghat Sadana a butcher etc etc...................they did these jobs honestly and with an open heart...........so ofcourse you can be a vet.

If you are like me and don't know a whole lot about what the fuss is about over what Professor Ghagga's view's were here is a neutral report on what happened: http://sikhtimes.com/news_102306b.html I think the Panthic Weekly article on this carried far too much bias. If Panthic weekly are meant to represent Sikh views then I think we are in trouble.

From my understanding of this post GOD is GOD and SATGURU is the JOT . So, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is JOT (word of the god). Satguru existed since the start of time. Here are my queries. 1. Is it just Satguru( JOT, word of god, hand of father) that can lead us to god ? 2. For sikhs JOT is SGGS, what is JOT for other religions ? 3. Did the JOT come in physical form before 1469? 1. When we say GOD is sarb kalla dhar and Guru Nanak Dev Ji was sarb kalla avtar, does that mean Guru Ji could do everything that GOD does ? 2. Was is just Guru Nanak Dev Ji who was sarb kalla avtar or the 9 Gurus who followed fall in the same category? 3. So is SGGS sarb kalla avtar? Are there any other sarb kalla avtars? 3. Ramma was 14 kalla avtar, Krishna was 16 kalla avtar..what does kalla mean here ? Like when you say kalla..is it the qualities? If yes could anyone tell me the 16 qualities that Krishna possessed. 4. Isn't Ramayan and Mahabharat mythology ? Forgive me if my questions sound stupid. Bhul Chul Maaf Gur Fateh !! Don't get confused with issues f Jot etc. They are just terms. Guru Gobind Singh ji described God and Kaal or Time......also as Akaal or Timeless....he goes on and says in Sri Dasam Granth ji ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥ त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥ All Thy Names cannot be told. One doth impart Thy Action-Name with benign heart.1. ਭੁਜੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਯਾਤ ਛੰਦ ॥ भुजंग प्रयात छंद ॥ BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੇ ॥ नमसत्वं अकाले ॥ नमसत्वं क्रिपाले ॥ Salutation to Thee O Timeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beneficent Lord! ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਰੂਪੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤ੍ਵੰ ਅਨੂਪੇ ॥੨॥ नमसत्वं अरूपे ॥ नमसत्वं अनूपे ॥२॥ Salutation to Thee O Formless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Wonderful Lord! 2. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੇਖੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਲੇਖੇ ॥ नमसतं अभेखे ॥ नमसतं अलेखे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Garbless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Accountless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਕਾਏ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜਾਏ ॥੩॥ नमसतं अकाए ॥ नमसतं अजाए ॥३॥ Salutation to Thee O Bodyless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Unborn Lord!3. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗੰਜੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੰਜੇ ॥ नमसतं अगंजे ॥ नमसतं अभंजे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Indestructible Lord! Salutation to Thee O Indivisible Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਠਾਮੇ ॥੪॥ नमसतं अनामे ॥ नमसतं अठामे ॥४॥ Salutation to Thee O Nameless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Non-Spatial Lord! 4. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਕਰਮੰ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਧਰਮੰ ॥ नमसतं अकरमं ॥ नमसतं अधरमं ॥ Salutation to Thee O Deedless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Non-Religious Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਮੰ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਧਾਮੰ ॥੫॥ नमसतं अनामं ॥ नमसतं अधामं ॥५॥ Salutation to Thee O Nameless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Abodeless Lord! 5. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜੀਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੀਤੇ ॥ नमसतं अजीते ॥ नमसतं अभीते ॥ Salutation to Thee O Unconquerable Lord! Salutation to Thee O Fearless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਬਾਹੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਢਾਹੇ ॥੬॥ नमसतं अबाहे ॥ नमसतं अढाहे ॥६॥ Salutation to Thee O Vehicleless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Unfallen Lord! 6. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨੀਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨਾਦੇ ॥ नमसतं अनीले ॥ नमसतं अनादे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Colourless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beginningless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਛੇਦੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗਾਧੇ ॥੭॥ नमसतं अछेदे ॥ नमसतं अगाधे ॥७॥ Salutation to Thee O Blemishless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Infinite Lord! 7. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗੰਜੇ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੰਜੇ ॥ नमसतं अगंजे॥ नमसतं अभंजे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Cleaveless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Partless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਉਦਾਰੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਪਾਰੇ ॥੮॥ नमसतं उदारे ॥ नमसतं अपारे ॥८॥ Salutation to Thee O Generous lord! Salutation to Thee O Limitless Lord! 8. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਸੁ ਏਕੈ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨੇਕੈ ॥ नमसतं सु एकै ॥ नमसतं अनेकै ॥ Salutation to Thee O THE ONLY ONE LORD! Salutation to Thee O The Multi-form Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੂਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜੂਪੇ ॥੯॥ नमसतं अभूते ॥ नमसतं अजूपे ॥९॥ Salutation to Thee O Non-elemental Lord! Salutation to Thee O Bondless Lord!9. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਕਰਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਭਰਮੇ ॥ नमसतं न्रिकरमे ॥ नमसतं न्रिभरमे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Deedless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Doubtless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਦੇਸੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਭੇਸੇ ॥੧੦॥ नमसतं न्रिदेसे ॥ नमसतं न्रिभेसे ॥१०॥ Salutation to Thee O Homeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Garbless Lord! 10. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਨਾਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਕਾਮੇ ॥ नमसतं न्रिनामे ॥ नमसतं न्रिकामे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Nameless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Desireless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਧਾਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਘਾਤੇ ॥੧੧॥ नमसतं न्रिधाते ॥ नमसतं न्रिघाते ॥११॥ Salutation to Thee O Non-elemental Lord! Salutation to Thee O invincible Lord!11. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਧੂਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੂਤੇ ॥ नमसतं न्रिधूते ॥ नमसतं अभूते ॥ Salutation to Thee O Motionless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Elementless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਲੋਕੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਸੋਕੇ ॥੧੨॥ नमसतं अलोके ॥ नमसतं असोके ॥१२॥ Salutation to Thee O Invinciblle Lord! Salutation to Thee O Griefless Lord! 12. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਤਾਪੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਥਾਪੇ ॥ नमसतं न्रितापे ॥ नमसतं अथापे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Woeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Non-established Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਮਾਨੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨਿਧਾਨੇ ॥੧੩॥ नमसतं त्रिमाने ॥ नमसतं निधाने ॥१३॥ Salutation to Thee O Universally-Honoured Lord! Salutation to Thee O Treasure Lord! 13. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗਾਹੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਬਾਹੇ ॥ नमसतं अगाहे ॥ नमसतं अबाहे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Bottomless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Motionless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਬਰਗੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਸਰਗੇ ॥੧੪॥ नमसतं त्रिबरगे ॥ नमसतं असरगे ॥१४॥ Salutation to Thee O Virtue-full Lord! Salutation to Thee O Unborn Lord! 14. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੋਗੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਸੁਜੋਗੇ ॥ नमसतं प्रभोगे ॥ नमसतं सुजोगे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Enjoyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Well-united Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਰੰਗੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੰਗੇ ॥੧੫॥ नमसतं अरंगे ॥ नमसतं अभंगे ॥१५॥ Salutation to Thee O Colourless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Immortal Lord! 15. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਗੰਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਰੰਮੇ ॥ नमसतं अगमे ॥ नमसतसतु रमे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Unfathomable Lord! Salutation to Thee O All-Pervasive Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਜਲਾਸਰੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨਿਰਾਸਰੇ ॥੧੬॥ नमसतं जलासरे ॥ नमसतं निरासरे ॥१६॥ Salutation to Thee O Water-Sustainer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Propless Lord!16. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜਾਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਪਾਤੇ ॥ नमसतं अजाते ॥ नमसतं अपाते ॥ Salutation to Thee O Casteless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Lineless Lord ! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਮਜਬੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਅਜਬੇ ॥੧੭॥ नमसतं अमजबे ॥ नमसतसतु अजबे ॥१७॥ Salutation to Thee O Religionless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Wonderful Lord! 17. ਅਦੇਸੰ ਅਦੇਸੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੇਸੇ ॥ अदेसं अदेसे ॥ नमसतं अभेसे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Homeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Garbless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਧਾਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਾਮੇ ॥੧੮॥ नमसतं न्रिधामे ॥ नमसतं न्रिबामे ॥१८॥ Salutation to Thee O Abodeless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Spouseless Lord! 18. ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥ नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब दिआले ॥ Salutation to Thee O All-destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Entirely Generous Lord! ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਰੂਪੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਭੂਪੇ ॥੧੯॥ नमो सरब रूपे ॥ नमो सरब भूपे ॥१९॥ Salutation to Thee O Mullti-form Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal King Lord!19. ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਥਾਪੇ ॥ नमो सरब खापे ॥ नमो सरब थापे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Establisher Lord! ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਪਾਲੇ ॥੨੦॥ नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब पाले ॥२०॥ Salutation to Thee O Annihilator Lord! Salutation to Thee O All-sustainer Lord!20 ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਦੇਵੈ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਭੇਵੈ ॥ नमसतसतु देवै ॥ नमसतं अभेवै ॥ Salutation to Thee O Divine Lord! Salutation to Thee O Mysterious Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਜਨਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਸੁਬਨਮੇ ॥੨੧। नमसतं अजनमे ॥ नमसतं सुबनमे ॥२१। Salutation to Thee O Unborn Lord! Salutation to Thee O Loveliest Lord! 21 ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਗਉਨੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਭਉਨੇ ॥ नमो सरब गउने ॥ नमो सरब भउने ॥ Salutation to Thee O All-Pervasive Lord! Salutation of Thee O All-Permeator Lord! ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਰੰਗੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਭੰਗੇ ॥੨੨॥ नमो सरब रंगे ॥ नमो सरब भंगे ॥२२॥ Salutation to Thee O All-loving Lord ! Salutation to Thee O All-destroying Lord!22. ਨਮੋ ਕਾਲ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥ नमो काल काले ॥ नमसतसतु दिआले ॥ Salutation to Thee O Death-destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Beneficent Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਬਰਨੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਮਰਨੇ ॥੨੩॥ नमसतं अबरने ॥ नमसतं अमरने ॥२३॥ Salutation to Thee O Colourless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Deathless Lord! 23. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਜਰਾਰੰ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਤਾਰੰ ॥ नमसतं जरारं ॥ नमसतं क्रितारं ॥ Salutation to Thee O Omnipotent Lord! Salutation to Thee O Doer Lord. ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਧੰਧੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਤ ਅਬੰਧੇ ॥੨੪॥ नमो सरब धंधे ॥ नमो सत अबंधे ॥२४॥ Salutation to Thee O Involved Lord! Salutation to Thee O Detached Lord!24. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਸਾਕੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਬਾਕੇ ॥ नमसतं न्रिसाके ॥ नमसतं न्रिबाके ॥ Salutation to Thee O Kindredless Lord! Salutation to Thee O Fearless Lord! ਨਮਸਤੰ ਰਹੀਮੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਕਰੀਮੇ ॥੨੫॥ नमसतं रहीमे ॥ नमसतं करीमे ॥२५॥ Salutation to Thee O Generous Lord! Salutation to Thee O Merciful Lord!25. ਨਮਸਤੰ ਅਨੰਤੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਮਹੰਤੇ ॥ नमसतं अनंते ॥ नमसतं महंते ॥ Salutation to Thee O Infinite Lord! Salutation to the Thee O Greatest Lord! ਨਮਸਤਸਤੁ ਰਾਗੇ ॥ ਨਮਸਤੰ ਸੁਹਾਗੇ ॥੨੬॥ नमसतसतु रागे ॥ नमसतं सुहागे ॥२६॥ Salutation to Thee O Lover Lord! Salutation to Thee O Universal Master Lord!26. ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਖੰ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਪੋਖੰ ॥ नमो सरब सोखं ॥ नमो सरब पोखं ॥ Salutation to Thee O Destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Sustainer Lord! ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਹਰਤਾ ॥੨੭॥ नमो सरब करता ॥ नमो सरब हरता ॥२७॥ Salutation to Thee O Creator Lord ! Salutation to Thee O Great Indulger Lord! 27. ਨਮੋ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗੇ ॥ नमो जोग जोगे ॥ नमो भोग भोगे ॥ Salutation to Thee O Greatest Yogi Lord ! Salutation to Thee Great Indulger Lord! ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਪਾਲੇ ॥੨੮॥ नमो सरब दिआले ॥ नमो सरब पाले ॥२८॥ Salutation to Thee O Gracious Lord! Salutation to Thee O sustainer Lord! 28 Give this explanation for God, how do you realise such a complex thing. The key is in quietening your mind and controlling Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh and Hankaar. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji tells us how to do this. Then our mind becomes attuned to God realisation or one becomes a Gurmukh. Page 5, Line 5 ਨਦੀਆ ਅਤੈ ਵਾਹ ਪਵਹਿ ਸਮੁੰਦਿ ਨ ਜਾਣੀਅਹਿ ॥ नदीआ अतै वाह पवहि समुंदि न जाणीअहि ॥ nadee-aa atai vaah pavahi samund na jaanee-ahi. the streams and rivers flowing into the ocean do not know its vastness. and Page 827, Line 18 ਸਾਧ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਓ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਗਰ ਬੂੰਦ ਨਹੀ ਅਨ ਹੇਰਾ ॥੨॥੧॥੧੧੭॥ साध मूरति गुरु भेटिओ नानक मिलि सागर बूंद नही अन हेरा ॥२॥१॥११७॥ saaDh moorat gur bhayti-o naanak mil saagar boond nahee an hayraa. ||2||1||117|| I have met with Guru Nanak, the Embodiment of the Holy Saints. When the drop of water merges into the ocean, it cannot be distinguished as separate again. ||2||1||117||

Let us define Kaam first. Kaam = Lust = an OBSESSION with sex. Kaam is NOT limited to "sex" only. Note I have put obsession in big letters. So what else does Kaam mean? Moh is materialism....or obsesson with material things........Lobh is Greed or obession with acumalation.................Hankaar is obssession with self or Egotism......and Krodh is anger or stubborness and obsession with being obstructive and difficult. tell me what Kaam is then?

To answer the question, Nihungs have not been declared as non-Sikhs. However, there are corrupt Nihungs (just like any other Sikh group or Sant/Math Jatha followers i.e. AKJ, GNNSJ, DT etc etc). These fellows represent the core principles of Sikhism. 1) They follow the martial code. Hey are always armed. 2) They maintain and keep their bodies and mind in top physical condition. 3) In 1984, nearly an the Nihungs were wiped out (who were the the Golden Temple complex), fighting alongside Sant Bhindranwala in defence of the Golden temple 4) They believe in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, The Dasam Granth and the Sarbloh Granth. The latter two used to be kept in Sikh temples alongside the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, however they were deemed as being too inciteful of martial behaviour and therefore removed from Gurudwara's by the British. 5) They don't "Wrangle over flesh" unlike many modern day Sant Jatha's (GNSSJ, AKJ, DT etc), and therefore represent Sikhism in its essence. 6) The Bhang thing started off as a thing that related to giving of small quatities before battle (like a medicine), however some corrupt people have taken this practice the wrong way and turned it into some sort of session. 7) Akali Phoola Singh is the most famous of the Nihungs and punished Maharaja Ranjit Singh by whipping him publicly for having and affair with a Muslim women. They have more positive traits than negative....but like I said there are corrupt elements to them, like all Sikh organisations. False!! they didnt do jack all in defending Harmandir Sahib!! insted Santa su rebuilt the Takht with goverment blood many!! Dear friend, I was 14 when the 1984 attack happened and I remember my parents trying to ring my cousins up in Punjab.....there was a blackout at that time and phone lines were cut. I spoke to my Uncle a year later and who was also 14 and he had told me how a group of his Nihung friends had been wiped out when the 1984 attack took place. I can try and find out the names if you wish. He also talked about how the Nihungs had stood side by side with Sant Bhindranwala to prevent the Indian Soldiers entering.........what enrage the Nihungs the most was the Soldiers wearing shoes in the complex. So get your fact right young man before making such comments.