Kaljug Singh

Fateh! The Sikhs at SikhNet.com do a great job. They have fulltime employees working for them who can earn far more in the corporate world than they do working at SikhNet, but they do their seva out of pyaar. If you don't feel that they should be getting paid as much, go and work for them for a year and tell us what you think you should be earning then. Regards, K.

Bijla Singh: I was referring to the quote from Jahangir's memoirs given above (it can be found in Grewal and Habib's Sikh History from Persian Sources) as evidence for the fact that Jahangir merely used Chandu's lies as an excuse for his orders to martyr Guru Arjan Dev: it's clear from Jahangir's writing that his real reason was motivated by his fanaticism and his fear that Guru Arjan Dev was drawing away too many Muslims towards Sikhi. Jahangir didn't need evidence for this alleged meeting between Guru Ji and Khusrao (I don't believe it happened for the same reasons you have stated), because his persecution of Guru Angad was on religious grounds. The rejoicing of the Qazis at the shaheedi of Guru Angad Dev and the letter sent by Shaikh Ahmad of Sarhind to Farid Bukhari (in which he writes ‘The execution of the accursed kafir of Goindwal is an important achievement and is the cause of the great defeat of the accursed Hindus.’) is testament to this. Guru Hargobind Ji was friendly to Jahangir after Guru Angad Dev Ji's martyrdom because the Gurus have always been the embodiment of mercy, and because Jahangir was persuaded to change, not because Jahangir realised he was misled by Chandu - he already knew this. (Chandu was later killed by angry Sikhs who punished him for his role in the affair and because of his participation of the torture of Guru Angad Dev.) I believe that both Chandu and Jahangir are to blame for Guru Angad Dev Ji's martyrdom because they both sought to benefit from it. The only difference is that Jahangir did it out of Islamic intolerance (which Guru Hargobind Ji forgave when Jahangir realised that Guru Angad Dev was preaching true religion) and Chandu did it out of spite and revenge because his pride was damaged by Guru Angad Dev's refusal of Chandu's daughter's hand in marriage. Regards, Kaljug.

Fateh! As long as he realises that he has done wrong, I don't have a problem with Sikhs funding this guy's recovery as it shows that we are compassionate but will not tolerate disrespect of Darbar Sahib. Perhaps the Singhs there should spend some time with this man while he is in hospital and educate him on Sikhi and the correct etiquette when entering Darbar Sahib. If he does it again, the whole world will know that Sikhs gave him a second chance, and that he deserves it when he gets beaten to death for repeating his offence. Regards, K.

Fateh! Here is a great resource on Persian literature in English translation: http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main The library includes translations of Babur's and Jahangir's memoirs in English, Aurangzeb's letters in English, and other literature that may be of interest to the Sikh historian. Enjoy, K.

From Tuzuk-i-Jahagiri, Memoirs of Jahangir: "In Govindwal, which is on the river Biyah (Beas), there was a Hindu named Arjun, in the garments of sainthood and sanctity, so much so that he had captured many of the simple-hearted of the Hindus, and even of the ignorant and foolish followers of Islam, by his ways and manners, and they had loudly sounded the drum of his holiness. They called him Guru, and from all sides stupid people crowded to worship and manifest complete faith in him. For three or four generations (of spiritual successors) they had kept this shop warm. Many times it occurred to me to put a stop to this vain affair or to bring him into the assembly of the people of Islam. At last when Khusrau passed along this road this insignificant fellow proposed to wait upon him. Khusrau happened to halt at the place where he was, and he came out and did homage to him. He behaved to Khusrau in certain special ways, and made on his forehead a finger-mark in saffron, which the Indians (Hinduwan) call qashqa, (Tilak) and is considered propitious. When this came to my ears and I clearly understood his folly, I ordered them to produce him and handed over his houses, dwelling-places, and children to Murtaza Khan, and having confiscated his property commanded that he should be put to death." Regards, K.

See the thread on Guru Arjan's martyrdom. Jahangir didn't act on Chandu's orders, he had his own reasons for causing Guru Arjan Dev's shaheedi. K.

Fateh! Suraj Prakash was completed in 1843 AD. The earliest written sources, including Jahangir's own biography, all describe Guru Arjan's arrest by Jahangir's own orders, and Guru Arjan's torture and martyrdom by Jahangir's goons. Jahangir himself mentions his long-held resentment of Guru Arjan Dev's popularity among Hindus and Muslims and his own desire to convert Guru Arjan Dev to Islam. Chandu may have poisoned Jahangir's ears against Guru Arjan Dev, but he had no authority himself to arrest, torture or murder anyone: everything Chandu did, he did with Jahangir's explicit permission, and Jahangir had his own religiously-motivated reasons for giving the order for Guru Arjan Dev Ji's torture. See Dr Ganda Singh's Early European Accounts of the Sikhs or Grewal and Habib's Sikh History from Persian Sources for the earliest accounts of Guru Arjan's martyrdom. It seems that some people would prefer to ignore history and lay the blame solely with evil Brahmins to serve their own agendas rather than blame the one who was truly responsible for Guru Ji's martyrdom. Regards, K.

Fateh! Who wrote the article on Sri Guru Arjan's martyrdom on sikhiwiki.org? See here: http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Martyrdom_of_Guru_Arjan It seems to have been written by someone sympathetic to the Muslim Mughals and is in direct contradiction to the historical texts that describe Guru Arjan's torture and murder due to Jahangir's fanatical and intolerant Islam and his hatred of all things non-Islamic. I would not be surprised if it was some lying Muslim bandar who wrote the article. Chandu's role has clearly been exaggarated to make Jahangir seem innocent of his repulsive crime. See the other more accurate articles here: http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Martyrdom_o...Sikh_historians and here: http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Arjan Could one of you who edit articles on the wiki please change it? And if the mods of the wiki are reading this, perhaps you should exercise greater control over what is put up on that site because it is used by many people as an accurate and true reflection of Sikh history and beliefs. Regards, K.

Chandu? It was Jahangir who ordered Sri Guru Arjan Ji's torture and martyrdom. Regards, K.

Tony: It's simply a tradition and done as a mark of respect. I believe Baba Buddha Ji also applied tilak to the foreheads of the Gurus when they were given Gurgaddi. I don't believe people should be matha tekking to any person anywhere, but some Sikhs do it as a mark of respect to a Gursikh who has shown them the way to Sikhi. People used to matha tek to Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale too until he started touching people on the head with a teer to get them to stop. :D Some Sikhs still insisted on matha tekking anyway out of pure pyaar. It might be wrong, but there is only so much you can do to teach people that. Regards, K.

Fateh! That is a silly argument. Try fighting a drawn out battle without food or drink for extended periods of time. Not everyone has Sant Baba Attar Singh's avastha now, and not everyone had it in Banda Bahadur's time. If you were forced to fight dharam yudh tomorrow, how long would you survive without sustenance? Naw, Brahmins give you high cholesterol. Mmm, paneer. K.

Fateh! I recall hearing somewhere that Singhs who were suffering from thirst while in battle would chatka a dusht and drink his blood then continue to fight without having to go back to camp to get refreshments. Khafi Khan in his book Muntakhabul-Lubab describes how some Sikhs in Bhanda Bahadur's time may have had to eat flesh from their own limbs to survive a siege. At the end of the day, if you are in dharam yudh, you do whatever it takes to continue the fight. If it means eating a roast Mughal for breakfast, so be it. K.

LOL I'd love to see someone try to chatka a rhino. :lol: Regards, K.

Fateh! According to this woman (did she actually breathe once during all that shrieking?), Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Buddhist because Buddha came first, and Guru Gobind Singh Ji was actually creating nothing new when he created the Khalsa, because when Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us rehats on not stealing, not telling lies, he was copying Buddha who had said the same thing. She believes this is true because her brother read a book about it once. :rolleyes: For the most part she just reveals her total ignorance regarding Buddhist doctrine and Sikhi, and fails to see the essential differences between the two such as: Buddhism is atheistic, Sikhi is monotheistic; Buddhists believe in ahimsa, Sikhs practice chatka; Buddhism says life is suffering, Sikhi tells us that the universe is an illusion; Sikhs have shastar vidiya for when the going gets tough, Buddhists prefer burning themselves alive. On a serious note, Buddhism and Sikhi intersect perhaps on the level of shariat, but the spiritual disciplines (though perhaps maybe not the result of such practices) are distinct and separate. She also completely misunderstands Bhagat Ravidas's bani, but then I am pretty sure she misunderstands everything else too (unless her brother has read a book about it). I would probably be offended at her comments if I wasn't so stunned by her stupidity and slightly deafened by her high-pitched caterwauling (a clowder of cats gathered outside my window a few minutes after playing the video and they all look like they are ready to mate with my laptop). Regards, K.

Fateh! I love the fact that there are WE DEMAND HUMAN RIGHTS banners next to ones that say HANG THE MURDERERS and WE DEMAND A BAN ON THESE KILLING WEAPONS (with photographs of kirpans). Presumably these people don't understand that the right to life and religious freedoms are all .. well, you know - human rights. Jason: No one will dictate to Sikhs what size, shape, colour, sharpness, or metal their kirpans should be. K.

Fateh! There is no evidence of caste being a factor in the attacks, nor is there evidence about young children being attacked or held hostage. If there is an as yet undetermined motive for the attack, the most obvious one is that it was an internal conflict within the Ravidassi community as there is plenty of. To suggest jealousy of the community's success, or the lack of money coming into gurdwaras in Vienna is the reason for the killing, is pretty weak and just reveals how important money is to the accusers. The sensible thing to do is to wait until the Austrian police have conducted their investigations and released information to the public. That way we will know for certain and not have to rely on rumours and hearsay. Regards, K.

Veer ji, I believe we are actually saying the same thing. Those Dalits who are suffering oppression are a subset of the oppressed people of the world. It's not about replacing jatts with dalits, it's about allowing dalits to escape their caste within the Sikh panth. If the huge population of dalits converted en masse to Sikhi, there would be no option but to have mixed caste gurdwaras if they requested them. If that happens, it will only be a matter of time before caste ceases to be an issue. I agree, mixed gurdwaras are the way, but I think this will happen naturally in a generation or two, at least in the Western world, because I have yet to meet a young Sikh in the UK who cared a damn about caste. At the end of the day, they care about marrying a Gursikh because of her jeevan not because of her caste. Regards, K.

Fateh! Reports now confirm that one of the attackers was shot in the head. There's no mention of who shot him and whether there were already armed Ravidassias in the gurdwara. It will be interesting too see whether the police will find and prosecute his assailant. See here: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/I...how/4625088.cms K.

Edit: LOL, Valli Singh was too quick. See above. K.

Gurbar Akaal: Yep, unfortunately it's the same with Silat as well. Kali has become pretty commercialised and it has lost some of the viciousness that made these "Manilla killas" so feared and respected. Trapping skill is pretty high level, it takes long practice to make them effective, same as ting jing or "listening skill" in Chinese swordsmanship. Thanks for the info, I will look up the charitar. K.

Fateh! Explain to him how a majority of Maharaj Jis rehats indicate how Sikhi is a distinct and rare religion. All these rehats have no base in Islamic thought. Not only do the rehats indicate we are a distinct religion, Guru Jis pavitar bani indicates that our Spirtual Philosophy is compleltely different. then Islamic thought. Ask your friend what Islams view is on Lakh Charasi and Gift of Human Birth, Jivan Mukhti,Sadh Sangat, and Naam. Im sure this will them quiet. As all the concepts are strictly Sikhi in which no other religon fully understands. And then show them what Ugardanti says about Islam. :D Bahadur Ali aka Bahadur Singh Nirmala aka Francisco Jose Luis is just a lost soul who changes his religion like a Sikh changes his kachera. I wouldn't sweat him, he will leave Shia Islam at some point. The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death. If his Muslim friends don't kill him first, he is going to die a lonely death as a bitter, twisted old man who will never find peace for the nindiya he has done against the Guru and His Sikhs. K.

Fateh! Caveman: I thought it was Bruce Lee who said "become like pani". :-P On a serious note, where in Sarbloh Granth is this vidiya described? Gurbar Akaal: Illustrisimo was incredibly skilled, as are many of his students today. You don't get to see the footwork of Kali Illustrissimo in this video because the video camera is fixed in one place and the frame is very small. I played with one of his students a couple of years back, and it was only after I woke up the next day with an swollen wrist that I realised he's been blocking by attacking my wrist and not the blade. They also have some great blade trapping practices that resemble the "sticky hands" techniques of Wing Chun. Regards, K.

Fateh! Is there anyone you would recommend that makes puratan style shasters today? I'm all for buying antiques that have been crafted for practical use and that have been tested in battle, but unless one is wealthy enough to buy shastars made of wootz steel, I think that we have better steel and more advanced techniques for forging weapons than did our ancestors. I'm currently trying to convince Cold Steel, who make good weapons at decent prices, to forge some traditional Indo-Persian shastar (they already make Persian style shamshir) like teghs, khanda, and perhaps pesh kabz or katar, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for them. (Maybe if we all bombarded them with requests?) I know forges that make excellent European swords (albion swords) and entry level katanas (cheness cutlery) with very high quality steel at reasonable prices, it just seems a shame that we do not have a company that does the same for traditional Sikh weapons. Regards, K.

HSD: The so-called low castes are the future of Sikhi because the oppressed, the weak, the poor and the destitute have always found protection and respect in the House of Nanak. Of course, when they become Sikhs they will be Sikhs, not Dalit Sikhs. Jason: My experience, and the experience of the vast majority of Sikhs I know living in Western countries, is entirely at at odds with the experiences that you describe. In my experience, there is greater consciousness of caste in India than there is here. Anyway, it's becoming clear from your posts that you are not willing to let go of caste and that you seek to replace Jatts with Dalits at the top of this meaningless hierarchy: in trying to (rightly) rid Indian society of caste discrimination, all you are doing is perpetuating the myth of caste. Your intentions to seek conflict with Sikhs over the issue of caste that has no connection with Sikhi except as a carry over from Hindu India is also becoming apparent. Until you stop identifying with your caste, and until you start thinking of Bhagat Ravidas as a Bhagat (or Guru, if you prefer) and not a Dalit Bhagat (or Guru) you will never be able to understand the message of Bhagat Ravidas or the Guru Granth Sahib. Regards, K.

LOL alright. I thought it was quite funny that this "violent and vicious art" that was so effective at killing Englishmen was being taught in a church of all places. :lol: But yes, I'm impressed with the way that he moves each time I see a clip of him demonstrating. The way he flows from one move to another reminds me a little of Escrima Master "Old Man" Illustrisimo, but the footwork seems to be unique to Shastar Vidiya. Fascinating art. Illustrisimo in action: K.