Ambrosia

Thank you for your responses. Its good to know there are some open-minded sikhs in this forum. No need for labeling people goray or kalay, or blah. lets get away from that and just know Gurmukh and Manmukh... You know - imagine someone who just found out about sikhism, they are interested in learning more, and interested in talking with a sikh youth community for help, information, support, etc. Then they come here, and they see posts like "Goray names suck", "A white or a black cant marry a sikh, and if they want to become sikh... i dont beleive them...", etc etc........ i dont think they will be encouraged to look much further for help here... So, good to hear those who DO welcome others as their brothers and sisters. Like Jaap Sahib Ji says... God is beyond gender, race, religion, creed, costume, origin....... take care*

thanks for your responses. seems like its clear now... we dont need any more annoying posts talking about racial or cultural differences among panjabi sikhs, western sikhs, other cultures sikhs... sikhs are sikhs. like Naam jap put it... there is only gurmukh and manmukh. -- for those who persist on pointing out of difference that is not required... please know... im a member here on this forum - a white westerner, becoming sikh since 1 year ago... and there are others here too... who probably dont appreciate being labeled non-sikh because of colour or background. thank you very much for the insightful responses already. Ambrosia

Sat Sri Akal, Since my time here, i have noticed a lot of posts and topics regarding differences between white, black, etc... and sikhs... I want to remind you that there are many white sikhs out there... to distinguish sikh from "goreh" or "kalay" is not really appropriate... as sometimes they are also sikhs. Also, generalizations, stereotypes, prejustices are unfair on either side. Especially for those who are pure among the dirty. Anyway... I found an interesting discussion you might want to visit... Intolerance between for Western and Punjabi Sikhs Lets please be the example, and embrace our brothers and sisters from around the globe. Make them feel welcome... and let the amazing Message of Sikhism, be known. It is not something that should be caged up and kept from other races - just because... Ambrosia

HAHA so silly! lolol hmm, but this lion thing, is amazing.. wow!

nice thread!!!! I really like that others are thinking about this topic... and good points... first we must be the role models ourselves, and inspire others through our own actions, and seva. :doh: Also, dont be afraid to mingle/talk with people of other paths... you can bring awareness to what sikhism is, and maybe... they will be interested... :doh:

Wouldnt that make them sikh also? ------ About the other ethnicity... im pretty sad to hear such comments. It sounds like people dont agree with sikh going with white or black or yellow, orange purple, green... whatever. Sounds like there is still some edgy feelings towards the POSSIBILITY of other ethnic groups actually wanting to be sikh... learn about sikhism, become sikh. Personally, i dont see the problem. I'm what you guys would call a Gori. Forget the fact that im sikh. I'll still remain gori in alot of eyes, not sikh. thats sad. dont insult people from other ethnicities (you dont want someone telling you, you cant marry someone you love because of their colour) come on... especially who are interested in sikhism... if you want sikhism to spread... open your mind to other ethnicities, and see the character of the person, not the colour. Spread the truth to your brothers and sisters of different backgrounds. Give them a chance... atleast.

im shocked!!!!! this is outrageous! suring the murderer has some kind of psychological problems?!?!!!!

Dreams are interesting...I dont think dreaming is a bad thing... sometimes they bring great insights that can help us along our paths. They are like indicators of how we are feeling, and sometimes wisdom comes inside these dreams. Here is a story about a real dream someone had: A young woman was inexplicably placed on the top of a dark stone castle, in the middle of the big blue sky. The place had a strangely dark appearance. People were roaming around like demons, snickering and making evil jokes. Being curious and vigilant, the woman asked one of the men what was going on. He grinned maliciously and replied “Me and a few friends captured God in the dungeon!” He chuckled, “Now, we are the most powerful rulers! Stronger than God himself! Hahaha” And he went off with a group of them, laughing away at their new found power. Sure enough there were angry rumbling sounds so loud the whole castle shook, blinding flashes of lightening, and blood squirted on the glass of the small dungeon windows that surrounded the interior of the castle’s roof. The woman felt uneasy, as now these horrific people had proclaimed themselves the rulers of the worlds. She thought to herself “How is this possible? God made a prisoner? But it can’t be! They must be mistaken! God can not be captured and imprisoned! God is all powerful, God is everywhere! God permeates every space and interspaces! God is beyond Form and Image. God is beyond and within!” The more this wisdom came ringing in her mind, the more it became clear that God was not caught in this castle’s dungeon. God is free, permeating everywhere, ultimately powerful and unfathomable! The woman suddenly found herself sitting in padmasana, in the middle of a small golden cage, suspended above the castle. A group of people had gathered below her. She wanted to tell them the truth, but her mind failed words! She was in deep meditation, feeling the most sublime freedom, and immersed in the infinite being of God, enveloped in immeasurable bliss!

Good luck, keep it up. you raised very important issues... 1 - how will the youth carry on the sikhism if they dont understand it's mesg in the Gurdwara 2 - who will rise up and sing these glorious praises, if the words uttered with the tongue are not understood by the heart? 3 - how will "strangers" to punjabi language and culture, find a place in Gurdwaras and sadh sangat, if they do not feel welcomed because they do not understand what is going on 4 - how will the spiritual people, searching for the religion that resonates with their heart, come to know of sikhism and get informed? ---- brewing up solutions... post later... Ambrosia

Follow what the heart knows as true. Remember God. Do good. ------- Support is highly important to those who want to convert to anything. Community is important in keeping on track and help keeping high morality. Acceptance and compassion for others will also bring the same to you. ------- we so easily forget... there is only ONE

I agree.

SSA - Yes, i was thinking the same - Not everyone can learn a language easily also. It is a difficult task... worthwhile though... but yes... A Gurdwara should be welcome to ALL - and that includes language. (But, you cant bend as far as having every single language in the world... just cant happen). BUt if there is a significant amount of english or french (language other than..) then it would be really nice to have english services. On my way home... i realized, i couldnt even tell when was the beginning or end... la la la im lost as to what exactly is happenning at the Gurdwara. I feel very shy about Langar (free kitchen) because i can hardly communicate with them... its confusing and sometimes uncomfortable. I cant imagine anyone who is just curious, to walk in easily. It takes a lot of courage, as a stranger. But, yet again... that is also a test... nothing should stop us from going to see Guru Ji! I think it would be a good idea to start a Study Group in English kind of thing. That would help. But i dont think we have to try and ask for an english service also... but gather together sikhs who speak english, those who cant understand punjabi very well... or anyone who wants to join... and you can study together and have discussions, and can build a sense of community, togetherness... that way. Ambrosia

Sat Sri Akal Khalsa Starr - I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. You know me. Im the other convert from Quebec Canada. I speak English and French. And yeah - I've been learning punjabi for a year now. Its going well, but resources are scarce for conversational skills and sentence making. (not just vocabulary and the alphabet). What i have done up to now, i found a website with lots of vocabulary, printed them, and taped them to q-cards. I have a good 3 inch thick pile of q-cards with 3 words each on them. This works well. I also paired up with someone who speaks punjabi and english, and i try to make conversation in punjabi. Its good practice. Another thing, is while reading the banis at home, i read the gurmukhi and the english both. When you see a word or phrase repeating, often you can tell what that word means. I appreciate learning the punjabi and the gurmukhi meanings because the phrases in the banis have a slightly different feel/colour/shade/texture than the english, and sometimes a slightly different meaning. Like... not having pronouns "He/She"; it is often written very directly "adjective is", like in Jaap Sahib for example. As for going to Gurdwaras, I have been to one also a few times in Montreal. When I entered the door, I think they thought i was lost. But when i showed that i actually did intend on going to the Gurdwara, they motionned me to take off my shoes and socks, and wear a cloth on the head, wash my hands, etc. They then got the one person who spoke english there to talk to me, and he gave me a small booklet that outlines what sikhism is (in both english and french). Since my first visit, they dont talk to me, as they know I am aware of the procedures and have seen me there before. As for service in Gurmukhi... i dont understand what they say - they talk so quickly! I do know the mool mantra though, and some key phrases, i can recognize. At first, it was very hard... because i felt like a total stranger... language is a huge barrier. People also tended to stare a bit, as I was the only white canadian there, but thats ok. I bring my banis with me when i go there in the early afternoon, and i read them there, so i can read the english meanings. The best part is to know you are close to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and that the Guru has lead you there - language barrier or not, man are we lucky! On some visits, i have been lucky to have people approach me and ask me if i like sikhi, how i got into it, am i learning punjabi... would i like some tea... :doh: ... lol i have to go, i may add more tomorrow... Ambosia

About converting... Sometimes people are born in a religion that doesnt resonate with their heart. Then later on they find a religion that does. (Like me...haha!) You end up reading something that totally rings in your heart, and you rejoice because you know... AHA! THIS is the truth ive been searching for... that i knew.. but here it is! And so you convert. Its not a bad thing to convert to Sikhi. Though i do agree to try and be a good _______, that you were born into. If that doesnt work though... your heart isnt in it... but your heart finds itself in another faith... thats the way to go. Besides... the first sikhs converted from somewhere to sikhi! Then all the other generations that came from that were born into sikhi.

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. TRUTH IS THE NAME. CREATIVE BEING PERSONIFIED. NO FEAR. NO HATRED. IMAGE OF THE UNDYING. BEYOND BIRTH. SELF-EXISTENT. BY GURU’S GRACE: RAAG SOOHEE, FIRST MEHL, CHAU-PADAS, FIRST HOUSE: Wash the vessel, sit down and anoint it with fragrance; then, go out and get the milk. Add the rennet of clear consciousness to the milk of good deeds, and then, free of desire, let it curdle. || 1 || Chant the Name of the One Lord. All other actions are fruitless. || 1 || Pause || Let your mind be the handles, and thenchurn it, without sleeping. If you chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord ,with your tongue, then the curd will be churned. In this way, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained. || 2 || Wash your mind in the pool of Truth, and let it be the vessel of the Lord; let this be your offering to please Him. That humble servant who dedicates and offers his life, and who serves in this way, remains absorbed in his Lord and Master. || 3 || The speakers speak and speak and speak, and then they depart. There is no other to compare to You. Servant Nanak, lacking devotion, humbly prays: may I sing the Praises of the True Lord. || 4 || 1 || Monday, 6th Aasaarh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi)

My father always says: - Breathe, Today is _______, tomorrow will be _______. (the blanks are monday, tues... wed...) - Thats part of the life... *sigh* - You cant dance faster than the music!

"Listening, even the blind find the path" -Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

HAHAHAHAHAHA! can i laugh! this is Rediculous! everyone wants to put their nose somewhere to smell someone else's stench. How about we all just go about our simran and let God take care of the rest, huh? note: thank you to the person above who said they didnt mean goray and kalay were bad ... good to make the correct distinction; sikh or non-sikh, not race. ok. back to rememberance now. lmao

DHANAASAREE, FIFTH MEHL: He alone is called a warrior, who is attached to the Lord’s Love in this age. Through the Perfect True Guru, he conquers his own soul, and then everything comes under his control. || 1 || Sing the Praises of the Lord and Master, with the love of your soul. Those who seek His Sanctuary, and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are blended with the Lord in celestial peace. || 1 || Pause || The feet of the Lord’s humble servant abide in my heart; with them, my body is made pure. O treasure of mercy, please bless Nanak with the dust of the feet of Your humble servants; this alone brings peace. || 2 || 4 || 35 || Thursday, 8th Vaisaakh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi) (Page: 679)

But the fact remains that caste stuff does not belong anywhere, in any religion, in any country, in anything what-so-ever. It happens out of people being brought up to it, or peer/parent-pressured... but truth is... WHO CARES what you have, and what your name is, and what you wear, and how much money you have, or how your house looks or who you married or whatever... like it says in Gurbani, you can have the whole world at your feet and fame and everything, but if you dont have God in your heart... you're as good as a worm wandering around in a pile of dung. Everyone, and everything is equal... different maybe in whatever ways... but equal. You may be born into sikh, or you may be a convert. You may be indian or you may be white, or hispanic, or black or green for all i care. You may speak punjabi or greek, latin, french, english, german, italien, spanish, chinese... the only thing that matters is if your tongue speaks in sweet ways the words of god's praise. You may be a man or woman, you may be a rock or a plant or a cat or an elephant or a dead dinosaur or a human or an alien... you may be whatever you are... but be humble, we are all equal, we are all God's, (undeservingly or deservingly)..... Love everyone, let that love spread forward in all directions... do not judge, do not pressure others to change, let God himself act through you. Let your words be an inspiration to remember God and chant his praises, while holding hands and raising them in glory... to the ONE and the ONLY... in all colours, and all styles of dress, and all countries and languages... united! Let us be the light through which the darkness can be enlightenned. Speak the words of praise~~ ALL IS ONE> ALL IS GOD.

TODEE, 5th GURU, 5th HOUSE, DU-PADAS: ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU: Such is the blessing my God has bestowed upon me. He has totally banished the five evils and the illness of egotism from my body. || Pause || Breaking my bonds, and releasing me from vice and corruption, He has enshrined the Word of the Guru’s Shabad within my heart. The Lord has not considered my beauty or ugliness; instead, He has held me with love. I am drenched with His Love. || 1 || I behold my Beloved, now that the curtain has been torn away. My mind is happy, pleased and satisfied. My house is His; He is my God. Nanak is obedient to His Lord and Master. || 2 || 1 || 20 || Tuesday, 6th Vaisaakh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi) (Page: 716)

DHANAASAREE, FIFTH MEHL: Body, mind, wealth and everything belong to Him; He alone is all-wise and all-knowing. He listens to my pains and pleasures, and then my condition improves. || 1 || My soul is satisfied with the One Lord alone. People make all sorts of other efforts, but they have no value at all. || Pause || The Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel. The Guru has given me this advice. It cannot be lost, and it cannot be shaken off; it remains steady, and I am perfectly satisfied with it. || 2 || Those things which tore me away from You, Lord, are now gone. When golden ornaments are melted down into a lump, they are still said to be gold. || 3 || The Divine Light has illuminated me, and I am filled with celestial peace and glory; the unstruck melody of the Lord’s Bani resounds within me. Says Nanak, I have built my eternal home; the Guru has constructed it for me. || 4 || 5 || Monday 5th Vaisaakh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi) (Page: 671)

TILANG, SECOND HOUSE, FIFTH MEHL: There is no other than You, Lord. You are the Creator; whatever You do, that alone happens. You are the strength, and You are the support of the mind. Forever and ever, meditate, O Nanak, on the One. || 1 || The Great Giver is the Supreme Lord God over all. You are our support, You are our sustainer. || Pause || You are, You are, and You shall ever be, O inaccessible, unfathomable, lofty and infinite Lord. Those who serve You, are not touched by fear or suffering. By Guru’s Grace, O Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. || 2 || Whatever is seen, is Your form, O treasure of virtue, O Lord of the Universe, O Lord of incomparable beauty. Remembering, remembering, remembering the Lord in meditation, His humble servant becomes like Him. O Nanak, by His Grace, we obtain Him. || 3 || I am a sacrifice to those who meditate on the Lord. Associating with them, the whole world is saved. Says Nanak, God fulfills our hopes and aspirations. I long for the dust of the feet of the Saints. || 4 || 2 || Sunday 4th Vaisaakh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi) (Page: 723)

SOOHEE, FIFTH MEHL: When Your hand is over our heads, O Lord and Master, how can we suffer in pain? The mortal being does not know how to chant Your Name he is intoxicated with the wine of Maya, and the thought of death does not even enter his mind. || 1 || O my Sovereign Lord, You belong to the Saints, and the Saints belong to You. Your servant is not afraid of anything; the Messenger of Death cannot even approach him. || 1 || Pause || Those who are attuned to Your Love, O my Lord and Master, are released from the pains of birth and death. No one can erase Your Blessings; the True Guru has given me this assurance. || 2 || Those who meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, obtain the fruits of peace. Twenty-four hours a day, they worship and adore You. In Your Sanctuary, with Your Support, they subdue the five villains. || 3 || I know nothing about wisdom, meditation and good deeds; I know nothing about Your excellence. Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. || 4 || 10 || 57 || Saturday 3rd Vaisaakh (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi) (Page: 749)