TheVampire

So who did Ravidas Jee receive his thoughts from? And what about 'Dhur kee Bani' - or does it only apply to a part of Guru Granth Sahib Jee?

IMHO the question of whether Ravidas Jee was a Guru or a bhagat is not relevant. The Shabads that make up Guru Granth Sahib Jee is our Guru. So that means all the shabads whether composed by Guru Nanak Jee or Ravidas Jee = Guru. Shabads are the thoughts of Guru Nanak Jee/ Ravidas Jee = Guru. Everything in Guru Granth Sahib Jee = Guru. Therefore we are saying thoughts of Ravidas Jee = Guru. However some are saying, thoughts of Ravidas Jee = Guru but Ravidas Jee himself does not = Guru. So what makes a Guru - the body frame or the teachings?

Excellent :wub:

One has to shake one's head in disbelief at the distortion of Sikhi being undertaken by members of Sikhsangat. To the alex who says that the bhagats held Guru Nanak to be their Guru. Please pay attention to the dates of birth on this link. http://www.punjabilok.com/faith/sikh/histo...ranth_sahib.htm Farid Ji was born in the 12th century so how could he be a 'sikh' of Guru Nanak Ji? c300 years prior to Guru Nanak Ji Namdev born in the 13th century - 200 years prior to Guru Nanak Ji Trilochan a contemporary of Namdev - 13th century To the other alex who says that Kabir Ji was not a follower of Ramanand. Read the same link under Kabir Ji. The laava by Guru Ramdas Ji was not a wedding shabad between man and woman, but describes ones union with God the almighty. You can twist it all you want to suit your preconceived views but it does not make it the truth. http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Laava#First_Laav Good Day

Do not agree. Guru Granth Sahib Ji consists of shabads written by those who lived prior to Guru Nanak Ji. Kabir Ji, Farid Ji etc - So Sikhi concepts were around prior to the time of Guru Nanak Ji - if not, why did Guru Arjan Ji incorporate them into the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. By accepting the Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru, one is also accepting Kabir Ji as Guru. Kabir Ji stated that his Guru was Ramananda - and the ultimate Guru is God. Kabir Ji was also accepted by Hindus and Muslims, as well as Sikhs. Farid Ji is also revered by Sikhs and Muslims. Guru Ram Das Ji's 4 lama is nothing to do with a marriage between man and woman. It is about the marriage between a human and God. Later because Sikhs wanted to have something seperate for their own weddings - they used the Anand Karaj.

I base my quotes from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you base them from other texts- that could be made up or written by ordinary men. Who's your Guru?

IMHO - Guru Nanak Ji did not see himself as belonging to a particular religion. Neither a Hindu or a Muslim - Guru Ji was truly universal - universal religion which is mankind. Guru Ji did not say neither a Hindu or a Muslim but Sikh.......... It is only later that Sikhs wanted to have a seperate id for themselves and they have sought to distort history and proclaim that Guru Nanak Ji started a seperate religion - Sikhi. In my view this is wrong. All through the Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is emphasised the universitality of mankind - and that God loves all men. "Of all the faiths the best one is the one in which God's praises are sung......Of all the places the best one is in the heart where resounds the Name"

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw : sloku m 1] jy sUqk mMn leIey (Bwv, jy mMn leIey ik sUqk dw Brm r`Kxw cwhIdw hY, qW ieh BI cyqw r`Ko ik ies qrHW) sUqk sB QweIN huMdw hY; gohy qy lkVI dy AMdr BI kIVy hMudy hn (Bwv, jMmdy rihMdy hn); AMn dy ijqny BI dwxy hn, iehnW ivcoN koeI dwxw BI jIv qoN ibnw nhIN hY [ pwxI Awp BI jIv hY, ikauNik ies nwl hryk jIv hrw (Bwv, ijMd vwlw) huMdw hY [ sUqk ikvyN r`iKAw jw skdw hY? (Bwv, sUqk dw Brm pUry qOr qy mMnxw bVw hI kTn hY, ikauNik ies qrHW qW hr vyly hI) rsoeI ivc sUqk ipAw rihMdw hY [ hy nwnk! ies qrHW (Bwv, BrmW ivc ipAW) sUqk (mn qoN) nhIN auqrdw, ies (pRBU dw) igAwn hI Do ky lwh skdw hY [1[ mn dw sUqk loB hY (Bwv, ijnHW mnu`KW dy mn loB rUpI sUqk cMbiVAw hY); jIB dw sUqk JUT bolxw hY, (Bwv, ijnHW mnu`KW dI jIB JUT-rUp sUqk hY); (ijnHW mnu`K dIAW) A`KW prwieAw Dn Aqy prweIAW iesqrIAW dw rUp q`kx dw sUqk (cMbiVAw hoieAw hY); (ijnHW mnu`KW dy) kMn ivc BI sUqk hY ik kMn nwl byi&kr ho ky cuZlI suxdy hn; hy nwnk! (ieho ijhy) mnu`K (vyKx BwvyN) hMsW vrgy (sohxy) hox (qW BI auh) b`Dy hoey nrk ivc jWdy hn [2[ sUqk inrw Brm hI hY, ieh (sUqk-rUp Brm) mwieAw ivc PisAW (mnu`K ) Aw l`gdw hY [ (au\ qW) jIvW dw jMmxw mrnw pRBU dw hukm hY, pRBU dI rzw ivc hI jIv jMmdw qy mrdw hY [ (pdwrQW dw) Kwxw pIxw BI piv`qr hY (Bwv, mwVw nhIN, ikauNik) pRBU ny Awp iek`Tw kr ky irzk jIvW id`qw hY [ hy nwnk! ijnHW gurmuKW ny ieh g`l smJ leI hY, auhnW sUqk nhIN l`gdw [3[ siqgurU dy gux gwauxy cwhIdy hn qy AwKxw cwhIdw hY ik gurU bhuq v`fw hY, ikauNik gurU ivc v`fy gux hn [ ijnHW mnu`KW pRBU-pqI ny (gurU nwl) imlwieAw hY, auhnW auh gux A`KIN id`sdy hn, Aqy jy pRBU Bwvy qW auhnW dy mn ivc BI gux v`s pYNdy hn [ pRBU Awpxy hukm Anuswr auhnW mnu`KW dy m`Qy qy h`Q r`K ky auhnW dy mn ivcoN buirAweIAW mwr ky k`F dyNdw hY [ jy pqI-pRBU prsMn ho pey, qW mwno, swry pdwrQ iml pYNdy hn [18[ English Translation : SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere. In cow-dung and wood there are worms. As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life. First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green. How can it be protected from impurity? It touches our own kitchen. O Nanak, impurity cannot be removed in this way; it is washed away only by spiritual wisdom. || 1 || FIRST MEHL: The impurity of the mind is greed, and the impurity of the tongue is falsehood. The impurity of the eyes is to gaze upon the beauty of another man s wife, and his wealth. The impurity of the ears is to listen to the slander of others. O Nanak, the mortal s soul goes, bound and gagged to the city of Death. || 2 || FIRST MEHL: All impurity comes from doubt and attachment to duality. Birth and death are subject to the Command of the Lord s Will; through His Will we come and go. Eating and drinking are pure, since the Lord gives nourishment to all. O Nanak, the Gurmukhs, who understand the Lord, are not stained by impurity. || 3 || PAUREE: Praise the Great True Guru; within Him is the greatest greatness. When the Lord causes us to meet the Guru, then we come to see them. When it pleases Him, they come to dwell in our minds. By His Command, when He places His hand on our foreheads, wickedness departs from within. When the Lord is thoroughly pleased, the nine treasures are obtained. || 18 || Thursday, 18th Vaisaakh (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi) -- Thursday, 18th Vaisaakh (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi) (Page : 472)

How does one explain a buddhist experiencing the opening of the tenth gate known as vairocanadvara, They do not keep kesh - in fact the opposite. So to say hair is neccessary for dasam duar is a misnoma.

Dhan Dhan Guroo Amar Das Ji Maharaj ਜੀਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ॥ Jī­ahu nirmal bāhrahu nirmal. Inwardly pure, and outwardly pure. ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਤ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਮਾਣੀ ॥ Bāhrahu ṯa nirmal jī­ahu nirmal saṯgur ṯė karṇī kamāṇī. Those who are outwardly pure and also pure within, through the Guru, perform good deeds. ਕੂੜ ਕੀ ਸੋਇ ਪਹੁਚੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥ Kūṛ kī so­ė pahucẖai nāhī mansā sacẖ samāṇī. Not even an iota of falsehood touches them; their hopes are absorbed in the Truth. ਜਨਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਖਟਿਆ ਭਲੇ ਸੇ ਵਣਜਾਰੇ ॥ Janam raṯan jinī kẖati­ā bẖalė sė vaṇjārė. Those who earn the jewel of this human life, are the most excellent of merchants. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨ ਮੰਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ॥੨੦॥ Kahai Nānak jin man nirmal saḏā raheh gur nālė. ||20|| Says Nanak, those whose minds are pure, abide with the Guru forever. ||20|| This is distortion of Sikhi. This shabad does not refer to the 5 k's - outward rehit. Guru Amar Das Ji is refering to people who act all holy but within themselves they are dirty, and contrasting with those that are pure from within and without.

Ooops sorry! Just there is another thread on something similar. But we are picking on one group who is questioning parts of Dasam Granth. Yet there is another group who is questioning parts of Guru Ji - and nothing. :gg: Anyway point taken and topic closed by mod vampire. TOPIC CLOSED

Should all those who question the Dasam Granth and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be excommunicated from Sikhi? I am thinking of the group questioning sections of Dasam Granth. And the AKJ questioning certain sections - Raagmala - of our beloved Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Should such groups be thrown out?

All responsible parents tell their children not to mix with bad crowds. But that is differnet to saying one should not eat food prepared by non-Amritdharis who could be perfectly good people.

pMjwbI ivAwiKAw : sloku m 1] jy sUqk mMn leIey (Bwv, jy mMn leIey ik sUqk dw Brm r`Kxw cwhIdw hY, qW ieh BI cyqw r`Ko ik ies qrHW) sUqk sB QweIN huMdw hY; gohy qy lkVI dy AMdr BI kIVy hMudy hn (Bwv, jMmdy rihMdy hn); AMn dy ijqny BI dwxy hn, iehnW ivcoN koeI dwxw BI jIv qoN ibnw nhIN hY [ pwxI Awp BI jIv hY, ikauNik ies nwl hryk jIv hrw (Bwv, ijMd vwlw) huMdw hY [ sUqk ikvyN r`iKAw jw skdw hY? (Bwv, sUqk dw Brm pUry qOr qy mMnxw bVw hI kTn hY, ikauNik ies qrHW qW hr vyly hI) rsoeI ivc sUqk ipAw rihMdw hY [ hy nwnk! ies qrHW (Bwv, BrmW ivc ipAW) sUqk (mn qoN) nhIN auqrdw, ies (pRBU dw) igAwn hI Do ky lwh skdw hY [1[ mn dw sUqk loB hY (Bwv, ijnHW mnu`KW dy mn loB rUpI sUqk cMbiVAw hY); jIB dw sUqk JUT bolxw hY, (Bwv, ijnHW mnu`KW dI jIB JUT-rUp sUqk hY); (ijnHW mnu`K dIAW) A`KW prwieAw Dn Aqy prweIAW iesqrIAW dw rUp q`kx dw sUqk (cMbiVAw hoieAw hY); (ijnHW mnu`KW dy) kMn ivc BI sUqk hY ik kMn nwl byi&kr ho ky cuZlI suxdy hn; hy nwnk! (ieho ijhy) mnu`K (vyKx BwvyN) hMsW vrgy (sohxy) hox (qW BI auh) b`Dy hoey nrk ivc jWdy hn [2[ sUqk inrw Brm hI hY, ieh (sUqk-rUp Brm) mwieAw ivc PisAW (mnu`K ) Aw l`gdw hY [ (au\ qW) jIvW dw jMmxw mrnw pRBU dw hukm hY, pRBU dI rzw ivc hI jIv jMmdw qy mrdw hY [ (pdwrQW dw) Kwxw pIxw BI piv`qr hY (Bwv, mwVw nhIN, ikauNik) pRBU ny Awp iek`Tw kr ky irzk jIvW id`qw hY [ hy nwnk! ijnHW gurmuKW ny ieh g`l smJ leI hY, auhnW sUqk nhIN l`gdw [3[ siqgurU dy gux gwauxy cwhIdy hn qy AwKxw cwhIdw hY ik gurU bhuq v`fw hY, ikauNik gurU ivc v`fy gux hn [ ijnHW mnu`KW pRBU-pqI ny (gurU nwl) imlwieAw hY, auhnW auh gux A`KIN id`sdy hn, Aqy jy pRBU Bwvy qW auhnW dy mn ivc BI gux v`s pYNdy hn [ pRBU Awpxy hukm Anuswr auhnW mnu`KW dy m`Qy qy h`Q r`K ky auhnW dy mn ivcoN buirAweIAW mwr ky k`F dyNdw hY [ jy pqI-pRBU prsMn ho pey, qW mwno, swry pdwrQ iml pYNdy hn [18[ English Translation : SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: If one accepts the concept of impurity, then there is impurity everywhere. In cow-dung and wood there are worms. As many as are the grains of corn, none is without life. First, there is life in the water, by which everything else is made green. How can it be protected from impurity? It touches our own kitchen. O Nanak, impurity cannot be removed in this way; it is washed away only by spiritual wisdom. || 1 || FIRST MEHL: The impurity of the mind is greed, and the impurity of the tongue is falsehood. The impurity of the eyes is to gaze upon the beauty of another man s wife, and his wealth. The impurity of the ears is to listen to the slander of others. O Nanak, the mortal s soul goes, bound and gagged to the city of Death. || 2 || FIRST MEHL: All impurity comes from doubt and attachment to duality. Birth and death are subject to the Command of the Lord s Will; through His Will we come and go. Eating and drinking are pure, since the Lord gives nourishment to all. O Nanak, the Gurmukhs, who understand the Lord, are not stained by impurity. || 3 || PAUREE: Praise the Great True Guru; within Him is the greatest greatness. When the Lord causes us to meet the Guru, then we come to see them. When it pleases Him, they come to dwell in our minds. By His Command, when He places His hand on our foreheads, wickedness departs from within. When the Lord is thoroughly pleased, the nine treasures are obtained. || 18 || Thursday, 18th Vaisaakh (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi) -- Thursday, 18th Vaisaakh (Samvat 540 Nanakshahi) (Page : 472)

Beautiful by Guru Arjan Dev Ji. I read so many discussions on SikhSangat on how to do this or that. Some say this is the right way to do things or that is. All that matters is the Name of God. All other practices are irrelevant.

What's important whether you use words like it or the or whether you follow the teachings of THE Guru's.? If Guru Nanak, for example, was not blessed with his teachings. He would have been an ordinary human being. It was his teachings that made him a Guru - not his outwardly form. Same as the Guru Granth Sahib Ji - it is not the outwardly appearnace that i am bothered with - but the teachings of the Guru Granth. One may consider it a book, a human, a living book or a living human or whatever. It is the shabads that make the Granth Sahib Ji special - just like it was the shabads that made Guru Nanak special. I won't be wasting my time commenting on this further as we have gone off topic.

Just think about it? I try to live my life according to the teachings of The Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Nothing else matters to me. But we are going off topic.

Tarandeep - ".... we have to make sure our bosdy is clean before we do certain seva etc." You mean to say we can't pray without having a bath/shower first? I sometimes start simran before i physically get up from bed. Is that wrong or goes against some rehat?

At the end of the day no amount of washing is going to get you anywhere. According to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, one must wash oneself with spiritual wisdom - the Naam.

Sarpanch don't worry, it's only probably some sad Sikh fanatic spreading false rumours.

Welcome to Khalistan. Where old men and women are assaulted for having differing viewpoints.

Sarpanch - You Kookeh always do nindya of Guru,by making stories up whats the crap about no Pataseh in Amrit?Gurmukhi was an invention you Kookeh say?Along with Anand Karaj?Guru Gobind Singh Ji lived and hid as Ajaipal Singh? Some people say Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not die and hid. Some people say Bhindranwale is now doing the same. Maybe we should beat these Taksali's up? Ironic isn't it? :gg:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=09sWP6-k5n8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-...ame-831420.html

Some examples. Guru Granth Sahib Ji saying that in order to achieve emancipation one must be blessed with Naam. But lot of Amritdhari's say that you need Naam but also Amrit. Some even say Amrit is Naam and distort bani phrases like 'Amrit Naaam nidhan hai'. Some Sikhs have been brainwashed by certain babey. There are those who believe that Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale is alive because a baba stated this. They are ready to kill you if you disagree. We are still waiting afer 24 years. In a few more years time - these Sikhs will be coming out with some excuses on Bhindranwale's non appearance. Another example - some fundamentalists believe that a Sikh should not wear a hat or he will be reborn as a lepor - they quote a rehatnama as proof. Yet when you point out to these fundamentalists that a rehatnama states that a Sikh should wake up in the morning, wash and TIE his Beard - they stare at you with blank faces - and just ignore it because in their opinion a Sikh should have untied beard. Example Sedgeley St Gurdwara will not one read the Guru Granth Sahib if his beard is tied. But they insist you tie the hair on your head. Some brainwashed Amritdharis say one should not have their food served from non-Amritdharis. But they eat walkers crisps prepared by gorey. Some brainwashed Sikhs only eat from steel dishes - as if God will be happy with this. They forget the Guru Granth Sahib Ji states it is only Naam that matters. Some brainwashed Sikhs say that it is essential to visit various places of pilgrimage They forget that the Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that the only true place of pilgrimage is within oneself. There are plenty more examples