Khalsa_starr

then why are you leaving? not everything is as good in the states as ppl suggest. Not be rude, but i think it's safer in canada than in us.

This is indeed very disturbing, how ppl let this happen? Was there no one to stop the demolition? I hope all of those orphans have places to go to, all together that is. Who was responsible for this stuff?

Move to canada instead! But as ms514 mentioned, a student visa isnt guranteed.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh something we both agree on. Then let us do these things ahead of time, so our next generation can have something to look foward to right? That's the job of groups like Dal Khalsa, KLF and other groups, that's why another group must be set up to deal with the other maters. No single force can tackle everything at once, even governments have different divisions to handle different tasks. Another user pointed out that the indian government already doesnt care about the ppl in punjab. And as for resources not getting developed, you don't know what will happen 10-15 years down the line, it's inetivable that more forgien companies will get interested in punjab, along with it, is a chance to grab some of those resources. Of course, money can persuade alot of ppl in the government. And the onlt province not to develop? i thought punjab was stratigicaly important to india? "Once a country is established everything is done afterwards and all problems are tackled after independence" I don't have doubt in the ppl that are supposed to be ruling Khalistan, but i am worried that others may have a different objectives in mind. Yes, it is a serious issue. If this where to happen, i would still try to do something. My point exactly, alternative solutions. I have a plan that doesn't call for tons of money. Latly, i have been trying to smooth out a possible plan to house ppl and give ppl work! That is right, everybody must pitch in. Let me point out something to you: What would happen if Sant Jarnail (bhindranwale) stayed home and hid from risk? What would happen if our guru's (10) and leaders stayed home of fear of death? We don't even begin to think of stuff like this, and why would any of our leaders past and present would think about it? When you do any sort of project or leadership you accept the fact that you might be in harms way some day, but you keep going on, you don't cower away just because some ppl may disagree with you. We all know that digging roads, building schools and keeping care of our youth may not be as dramatic or exciting as shooting a gun or planning offensive moves, but someone has to do it. It may be small and not very glamorous, and the ppl who do it may not get as much coverage as those who fight in battle, but sometimes the smallest things can make the biggest impact. My ideas would eventually cover anyone who is in the Khalistan region, i don't care much for just taking care of one set of ppl, why not help others? This would lessen the risk because others would not feel left out or betrayed. Anyone from the outside would see that i'm (and others) are not just sympathetic towards sikhs. Poverty is in every religion and culture that resides in punjab. And by the way, thank Bijla, your good generocity has made me even more happy that i'm doing waht i'm doing. I was talking on a more worldy view, and yes sikhs have and are proving to stand up for their goals and beliefs. Then why did you bother bringing up the thought in the first place if you already knew the answer?? I didn't: "Thanks for your input, at least i know when i head over there to do my work, i already will have something to add onto." Does meer survival good enough? Why not do better? Afterall, we are trying to create a better place for our future children. And so i will Bijla, You know Bijla, we seem to agree on many things and we are argueing over meer misunderstandings of each other. You indeed have more knowledge when it comes to sikhism than me, after all i am a convert. Have you ever thought about moving to punjab to help our brothers and sisters? or are you weary of some sort of threat to your well being? i hope we can get along better than we have lately. -Khalsa Starr Note: if you wonder why i am always telling others about this stuff, did you know that i have a good knowledge in city and rurul planning. I and know a few things that make ppl happy.

So it shouldn't be taken literely that there is a place like hell and heaven? what you said here gives me the ideas that living away from guru ji is like hell, caus your lost and have no guidence. I guess you might as well live in hell when your lost and confused. The flip side, realizing god is like being uplifted to higher place and free from pain and confusion. Am i understanding this right? So then izrail is just a imagery used to show the consequences of falling away? ????

Then my question is what such a person would have to fear? if they know there is only one god? (should be thinking this anyways). interesting...

i don't think the intentions where bad, just simply a bad representation. Religion and culture are two seperate things. However, i do think it was a very bad idea.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Thanks for your input, at least i know when i head over there to do my work, i already will have something to add onto. Isn't punjab part of india? Once again, the magic wand will suddenly fix everything, brother, nothing in the world works that way. It takes years for conditions to change and a proper system established. And why wait till then? no one know for sure that when khalistan will be created, it could be 20-40, who know how many years. Why should our ppl wait to see changes then? Please i would like to know. And ppl are concerned about their quality of life, and how they travel. Don't farmers use roads and water? don't ppl go to school to learn and use electricty? of course, punjab is better off than other areas of india, however, there is always something that can be done to make the situation better. You just answered your own question, it is our responsibilty to solve our own problems. Your suggestion that we should wait for the Khalistan, bad abd idea. It's more easy to start these projects early, rather then waiting for our future government to do it. It's uncertain how stable Khalistan will be right after and several years after such a seperation. The governemnt will be more concerned about sending money and resources to guard the borders and counter insurgents. Were will they find time and resources to take care of the infrustructure then? Why waht till then? Start now. I would like to hope so, however, we don't know who will run the country, you never know when a rival group will feel like grabbing power for themself (it has happened before). Especially in times of unrest. Ppl can be cruel, i wouldn't be so trusting in men if i where you. Sorry, but the lure of power can be very tempting. Then were is your answer? or your solution? Oh right, wait for the magic wand to appear and fix everything. Sorry, it doesnt work that way, the true solutions need to be researched, which i have already started. Hopfully, i will be heading to Punjab with several other interested ppl to survey our fellow sikhs and others on how their everyday life can be made better, and ideas for future projects. I think the rest of the forum would like to know yuor ideas. Asking questions to others is one way of getting their opinion and then we can start to look at solutions. If no one stands up, or ask question? how can we find solutions? That's one of the reasons why our governments neglect us, no one stands up for their rights, or asks questions. You can't solve or answer an invisable question Bijla.

one of those sites has been shut down already, can even access it (big read screen comes up). This is so sad to see these disgusting things happen. Very, very sad...

THen we must convince these groups that want khalistan that they should think about this stuff before it's too late. Where talking about millions of ppl's lives. BAck to the topic, how many times has this happened elsewhere? is this between moderates and extremests? (proper name please).

Don't forget Infrustructure! (roads, schools, sewer/water, power, transportation). I wonder also how corruption will be dealt with, if there is any. sarbat khalsa???? Who are they? i hope we don't have elections and all that crap, i now understand that elections and voting is a bad way to run things.

i wonder as well, i don't even wear a dastaar because i don't know how to tie it, or have long enough hair.

:cool: This is an afront to those who are sikhs! This is awfull, who organized this event? Why is there bhangra mixed in with a sikhi related event? If they want to do it, then they should have their own seperate festival called: "2005 Punjabi Bhangra/Cultural fair" This is just no acceptable.

Shaheed... You one of the few users here who tries to point out that islam (alos hindu, christan) is not all bad. I agree with shaheed, let's not paint other religions in a bad way. Let's learn how to a co-exist.

Well at least one user here is doing honest, i myself will be looking more deeply into the problems and seeing if my plan could work. It's just a theory, however, it might be a start towards a better future.

Indeed, i imagined that this is a problem. Perhaps what would be best is not charity, but some reall skills that can be teached to help families and busineses thrive. Money and food are onlt temporary fixes, what really needs to be done is education and teaching ppl that there is other ways to do things even wothout money, i myself have a theory that i will try and see if it will work or not.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Whatt???? :angry: :angry: Then i am even more concerned to as why no one has taken up the cause to address the social and economic problems that come with poverty and lack of place in the world. Of course fighting poverty isn't everything, however, it is one of the small factors of the Khalistan movement (ppl don't admit it). I have personaly lived in severe poverty and know the effects of it: suicide, social problems, drug abuse, youth mischief, organized crime, etc. And that was living on a reserve in northern alberta! Since i have experienced this state of living, i know for sure that stuff like this is going on as we speak somewhere and sometime in punjab. I don't want to paint a gloomy picture, however, it's time we stopped pushing these issues to the side and assume that things will be better when our homeland is created. There is no gurantee that things will be better right away after khalistan is created, the time to act on these problems is now. I think we must focus more of our resources towards fighting poverty and the problems that come with it (in punjab). We already have many groups mixing it up for the fight for khalistan, we need ppl to fight, and i respect those that do. However, fighting can only go so far before some really serious issues start to arise and could undermined our goals. I am not saying that no one has helped, but there has been no major group (to the best of my knowledge) that is dedicated to the building and maintaing of the social and ecenomic well being of the people of punjab. I have deep respect for our shaheed's and civilians that have given their life for the war against oppression and injustice. As we speak, our brave brothers and sisters are fighting (in some form or another) in parts of punjab and others areas to secure a bright future for our children. However, it won't be much of a future if what they meet is a country in severe economic and social poverty. Pulling a trigger or signing agreements with nations may help to ceate a country, but it doesn't acually help ppl on the down to home basis. War has a cruel way of creating debt and ruining a country's infrustructure. I have not seen this personaly, but i know this has happened in other poverty stricen areas of the world. mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan: your words, if true have made me even more concerned about the well being of our brothers and sisters in punjab. It is obviously clear that no group has the will power or intentions to take on such a difficult challenge. After all, these problems are imbedded in our everyday life and are not easily erased. Also, if the indian government is not doing anything about it, why aren't you doing anything to about it? Peaple, even if it is small, it's better than sitting around and hoping that khalistan will fix everything, i say again that the time to act on these issues is now, not later, cause it's not going to be any easier when there is a war going on, or after the inetivable aftermath. I'm not trying to downgrade khalistan but be realistic ppl, there is no magic wand that will instantly fix these problems. There are many sikhs in uk and north america that are swimming in imense wealth, while some of our fellow sikhs are living in awfull conditions. I'm sure our more wealthier brothers are contibuting to the local community, but more must be done. There is no reason why some of us in developed nations are living in mansion like homes, fancy cars and lavish lifestyles. It is happening, and those ppl are just as guilty as the indian govermnent, only worse, because it's in our own community! Wahegure jee instructed us to share our wealth and surplus and help those in need. Some little help in some form or another is better than nothing at all. I have made a personal commitmnet to not live a rich lifestyle, i cannot bare to think that others are living with a great deal of pain. Now mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan if your so better, stop pointing fingers and do something to curb these problems, if not, then keep your comments to yourself. Praying for our sikhs in punjab is a start, if you can come up with your ideas, please fill me in. I don't want to cause more of a rift between us or any other user, but i don't like to see users pointing any fingers or alike if you yourself are not going to do anything about it. I hope you understand my reasoning mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan, and any other users at sikhsangat.com. -khalsa Starr Khalistan Zindabaad!!!

and some ppl think we are ready for bigger endeavours, if we can't even keep the peace in a gurdwara how will be any better in the future goals? can someone please answer.

Bijla Singh... kind of like me, only it comes from my family, hopefully your story will inspire others to tell their's.

PS Khalsa Starr: there are others who need to know about this. We don't need a debate, but we do need to know the facts.

and we will need ppl to fix up and clear the aftermath of Khalistan (ie: war or armed conflict), i will try to do my part, as no other group cares about the actuall down to home well being of the masses. I will start up a group that will be dedicated to repairing and picking up where the indian government has left off of. I don't think india will keep on taken care of the basic necesities of life (food, water, power, etc.) after khalistan is made. I don't think anyone wants to fall into decay and despair like afghanistan did. Of course the khalistan government has already thought about stuff like this right????

UntitledSingh... You comments have been most helpfull, since the last time i posted my mom is even more strict with me, now i can't even practice being a vegetarian. I feel like i have been betrayed. I did not bother to try and get into a argument, seeing how it's counterproductive. I have made up my dicision, i will contact my friend and will try to get ahold of the gurdwara that way. Then i can talk to others and see if i can bunk up with someone until i move to a more stable place. I have a place in minf where i could stay. UntitledSingh has a good point in why i should not give up, or settle for less when being a sikh. I have not taken amrit and don't intend to for a while when i am ready. Wearing the 5 k's is the least i can do to be a sikh (other than praying to waheguru ji and being on this forum). My mom believe that my items have demons in them and she doesnt want me "humiliating" her. This is just BS, i think she is being a little unfair. So i guess be moving sooner than expected, however, why settle for less. I though, however, must stay low for a few days until i get in touch with the gurdwara. I am worried that since i'm a convert and not indian that it might be a little hard to convince others i'm serious. This is my greatest fear. And i will tell my mom that i will not abandon my faith. -Khalsa Starr note: can anyone get a phone number for the vernon Bc Gurdwara???

Easy for moderates to say, but there are those who don't give up and will try to use sikhism as a way of getting what they want. They will tell the rest of us that your not a true sikh if you dont want khalistan, and will therefore will justify the killing of moderates to get there goal. THis is happening with other radical groups today. However, there will ppl who will rise up to say that violence is not the way, like sant jarnail. We need ppl to rise up and stop anyone from going down the patht hat some other groups have gone down. Khalistan should not be made by the blood of other, i have confidence that it won't. No sikh group is not like that - yet.

WJKK WJKF!! I have a really bad situation and i need the sangats help if anyone can do it. Two days ago i received a very special package from s1ngh (user here) which contained most of the 5 k's. I was very happy to get these items because i don't know how to purchase them in small town vernon BC. Anyways, i took it on myself to start wearing my kirpan, Kara. The Kanga i could not wear cause i don't know how to tie and wear my dastarr, nor the Kaccha cause i dont have it. Back to my saying, i started wearing them the day i got the items. My mom being from another religion got quite offended by me wearing some of the k's. Me and her got into a little of a argument, i ended it, however not after being striped of my rights and given the notice that i might have to move cause of my kirpan and Kanga i was wearing! It turned out that my mom gave me the option to stay IF i cut my hair off, dont read any sikh related books, don't wear any of the 5 k's, and not mention anything about my religion. I went away into my bedroom and thought that this was not right. Of course i had to surrender my items to another sikh nearby or face being kicked out in a matter of days. This has made me somewhat ashamed and confused. now what? My question for the community here is: should i move away from my house? Or accept my moms rules of not showing my sikhi dress code? I am very confused now, because i don't know very many sikhs here in Vernon BC Canada and how to contact any. Can anyone help me contact someone who can give me advice? Thank you. WJKK WJKF!!

Posh_jatti... Perhaps i'll rephrase my comment. When you posted this thread, you should have expected a barrage of different views. However what i meant about mentioning your sig is that your probably been more into sikhism then i have (5 months now) and you didn't know that flashing khandha while not covering your head was bad? I was a little skeptical when i remembered your sigs and your current one now. Sorry, but what would you expect other than different views??