Sukhdeep Singhh

If you continue to assert that " Mahapurukhs" have more special privelledge of giving Naam over Panj Pyaarey then thats your choice. If that is the case why isnt a special Mahapurkh invited in every Amrit Sanchar to give Gurmantar.Why Need Panj Payaarey to give Gurmantar if MahaPurush can do it. Can Babey give Amrit too? ALso, could you please provide Gurbani Tuk which states didfferent methods of Naam Simran,especially those taught by Mahapurukhs. Or could you provide any rehatname that states Naam can be given by " Mahapurkhs". I guess in the video below that Baba is giving Naam. http://www.panthic.org/news/0/ARTICLE/5107 Is this the type of methods you are talking about?

from www.tapoban.org

Certainly you should go for Pesh if you want to re-build your Sikhi.

veer Ji I was mentioning those techniques for those people who are denying the fact that techniques do exist, and I 100% agree that love is needed for Naam Simran. Im not saying swas swas simran is the only means of simran. IAnybody who does Naam SImran is truly blessed, the more Abhyiaas a person does the more Kipra Guru Ji will give them on understanding Naam Simran. I mainly posted to defend the Gurmat notion of Naam Drir. People have no shame these days. They are criticizing elements that are taught by Panj Pyaarey. DOnt they even understand who Panj Pyaarey are. Why are they trying to put doubts in peoples mind about Panj Pyaarey. People doing such things are greatly insuliting Guru Ji. I hope they understand what they are doing so they ask Guru Ji for forgiveness. I believe Keski is a kakkar but I would never dare say Panj Pyaarey are wrong for saying Kes. It is straight up blasphemy to talk down on Panj Pyaarey. I only hope that the SIngh who stated Naam Drir is mere tool to advertise repents for these statements.

If you havent personally experienced Naam Dhrir then how can you discredit it. Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji a true saint scholar in his book Anhat Shabad Dasam Duar talks about Naam Dhrir given by Panj Pyaarey.It cant be given by any"Sant Baba " it can only be given by Panj Pyaarey. All sampradas including Rara Sahib mention a technique of Naam Simran. WHen doing Naam Simran one reaches certain stages Basanti , Para, etc. Panj Pyaaray teach you to reach the stage in which eventually the breath gets reversed and rises upward and you do automatic Ajap Jap Naam simran. These things are mentoined in Gurbani. How can you deny Gurbani? rI klvwir gvwir mUF miq aulto pvnu iPrwvau ] ree kalavaar gavaar moodt math oulatto pavan firaavo || You barbaric brute, with your primitive intellect - reverse your breath and turn it inward. mnu mqvwr myr sr BwTI AMimRq Dwr cuAwvau ]1] man mathavaar maer sar bhaat(h)ee a(n)mrith dhhaar chuaavo ||1|| Let your mind be intoxicated with the stream of Ambrosial Nectar which trickles down from the furnace of the Tenth Gate. ||1|| well i think sun singh paaji jus tryin to say that some pepl and jathes nt accept naam dhrir as required!! anyway sukhdeep singh pajii we cant say that we have to be naam dhrir to reach at particular stage!! this is just started by jatha.. wat about before that?? there were so many sants mahapurakhs reched at different stages. and ji hanji bhai randhir singh written in his book but ji in that times panj pyarey were in real chardikala, sorry to say but in these days panj are nt in avastha where they suppose to be as u can guess bak in days bhai randhir singh jis time in amrit sanchars so many abhilakhees gt there dasam duar open while receiving naam dhrir first time. as bhai randhir singh written in his book that <The rasna (tongue) of Punj Pyare with Naam Kamaayee (one's who have earnings of Naam) is the rasna of Guru Sahib. Hearing the Naam Gurmantra from the holy and Amrit-drenched tongue of Punj Pyaare with Naam Kamaayee, under the leadership of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, causes wonderous, spiritually-attracting Paaras Kala (condition) and immediately after hearing the Naam with ears, the current of Naam Abhyaas runs in the seeker and this current then never stops flowing in the seeker.> jio naam is beyond techniques... its like sweet laddu.. u can make pieces and eat it or u can just put in your mouth lol its not like only u can attain that spiritual bliss if u r naam dhrir frm some particular jatha and ji u talkin about panj pyarey teaches you to reach at particular stage... i never heard about it. i also received naam dhrir from akj bt they never taught me any technique except to do swas giras!! and jii the stages u talkin about pasanti para baikhree madhma... these stages r nt to be teach by someone ... when one reaches at that stage ... one feels it!! you are right gurbani talks about it. its all about practical ji.. u dont need any technique in these stages as bhai sahib written in his buk that in first stages one starts hearing anhad shabad or u can say ajapa jaap and amrit start drenching frm dasam duar.. but that can only possible by guru jis kirpa and with our own effort.. we dont need any particular technique. again naam is beyond techniques doesnt matter how we uttering.. all we have to make sure is... sRvxI suxIAY rsnw gweIAY ihrdY iDAweIAY soeI ] sravanee suneeai rasanaa gaaeeai hiradhai dhhiaaeeai soee || Hear with your ears, and sing with your tongue, and meditate within your heart on Him. and ji pls read http://forums.panthic.net/index.php?showtopic=35250 bhul chuk maaf Gsingh Veer Ji I think you misunderstood my post. I did not mean to say Panj Pyaarey teach you to reach a certain stage. What I meant to say is that other groups mention that there are stages in Naam Simran. In which each stage the technique of Naam Simran changes. People who posted previous said there are no techniques to Naam Simran then they say sampradas dont accept these mechanical techniques. Sant Isher SIngh Ji ( RARA SAHIB oldest group to date) mentions it himself that the Para technique of doing Naam Simran through the Naab( navel) is the most beneficial way to do Naam Simran. I particaulary have not paid attention to these stages because I follow the technique given by Panj Pyaarey. But how can anyone deny there are not techniquesof Naam Simran. Everyday in Anand Sahib Guru Ji clearly states that inside the Shareer there is our swas which its desitnation is the Dasam Duar. Isnt there a method to rise that swas to the Dasam Duar. This swas can only ascend through Guru Jis direction and constant guidance. These people are denying Gurbani because they have failed to understand its secrets. Before they deny truths of Gurbani they should investigate internally themselves first instead of taking somebodys word that Naam Drir does not exist. gur kY sMig rhY idnu rwqI rwmu rsin rMig rwqw ] gur kai sa(n)g rehai dhin raathee raam rasan ra(n)g raathaa || He remains with the Guru, day and night, and his tongue savors the savory taste of the Lord's Love. Avru n jwxis sbdu pCwxis AMqir jwix pCwqw ]1] avar n jaanas sabadh pashhaanas a(n)thar jaan pashhaathaa ||1|| He does not know any other; he realizes the Word of the Shabad. He knows and realizes the Lord deep within his own being. ||1|| VaaheGuRu! siqgur dwqY nwmu idVwieAw muiK msqik Bwg sBwgy ]1] sathigur dhaathai naam dhirraaeiaa mukh masathak bhaag sabhaagae ||1|| The True Guru, the Giver, has implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me. A very blessed and fortunate destiny is recorded upon my forehead. ||1|| rwm gurmiq hir ilv lwgy ]1] rhwau ] raam guramath har liv laagae ||1|| rehaao || Through the Guru's Teachings, I am lovingly centered on the Lord. ||1||Pause||

lol i am agree with Sun singh paaji... if one reads gurbani by heart, with love .. naam goes automatic... the actual way guru maharaj told us :D and its the easiest way by reading gurbani as much as possible and when one reads bani from heart he feels to do naam simran more and more it works like fuel to fire... bt nowadays people even say u dont need to do nitnem bas naam jappo lol dasam duar khol lao ji.. bhul chuk maaf so one have to meditate on gurmantar bt both gurbani and simran goes together .... gurbwxI suix mYlu gvwey ] gurabaanee sun mail gavaaeae || Listening to the Word of Gurbani, filth is washed off, shjy hir nwmu mMin vswey ]1] rhwau ] sehajae har naam ma(n)n vasaaeae ||1|| rehaao || and they naturally enshrine the Lord's Name in their minds. ||1||Pause|| Nitnem gives us instructions to do Naam Japna. At the end of the day its Naam Simran that will open the Dasam Duar.

Im glad you have pointed out that Naam Drir can only be given by Guru- Roop Panj Pyaarey, and mentioning this techinique is not restricted only to AKJ. This is so true. There are other Gupt groups that do Panj Pyaarey Seva and give Naam Drir. AKJ happens to be the group that are more publically known for this.

If you havent personally experienced Naam Dhrir then how can you discredit it. Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji a true saint scholar in his book Anhat Shabad Dasam Duar talks about Naam Dhrir given by Panj Pyaarey.It cant be given by any"Sant Baba " it can only be given by Panj Pyaarey. All sampradas including Rara Sahib mention a technique of Naam Simran. WHen doing Naam Simran one reaches certain stages Basanti , Para, etc. Panj Pyaaray teach you to reach the stage in which eventually the breath gets reversed and rises upward and you do automatic Ajap Jap Naam simran. These things are mentoined in Gurbani. How can you deny Gurbani? rI klvwir gvwir mUF miq aulto pvnu iPrwvau ] ree kalavaar gavaar moodt math oulatto pavan firaavo || You barbaric brute, with your primitive intellect - reverse your breath and turn it inward. mnu mqvwr myr sr BwTI AMimRq Dwr cuAwvau ]1] man mathavaar maer sar bhaat(h)ee a(n)mrith dhhaar chuaavo ||1|| Let your mind be intoxicated with the stream of Ambrosial Nectar which trickles down from the furnace of the Tenth Gate. ||1||

It was the British who undermined Sri Dasam Granth. In addition, it was the British who changed the distinct saroop of Khalsa. During British Raj dastar was taken out of Gurmat Maryada, and women stopped wearing Dastars.

Yes United SIkhs need help, they need funds and sevadars. http://www.panthic.org/news/126/ARTICLE/5070/2009-06-26.html

Sorry Veer Ji, but I dont know of any recordings.

Many of Bhai Sahibs writings and other great Gurmat Based writings. http://www.vidhia.com/

Sadh Sangat has the ability to change the perception of yourself and the world around you. Your negative thinking is due to the dirt on your mind. We all tons of dirt on our mind due to the deeds of this life and other lifes. Company of Sadh Sanga wipes this dirt with the soap of Naam, then our way of thinking completely changes. We gain greater understanding of our potentials. ITs negativity that creates a let down heart which prevents us from seeing things in a positive light. We need courage to battle this negativity and prevent the heart from being let down. THis shabad explains how our perception changes through Sadh Sangat. iblwvlu mhlw 5 ] bilaaval mehalaa 5 || Bilaaval, Fifth Mehla: ipMgul prbq pwir pry Kl cqur bkIqw ] pi(n)gul parabath paar parae khal chathur bakeethaa || The cripple crosses over the mountain, the fool becomes a wise man, AMDuly iqRBvx sUiJAw gur Byit punIqw ]1] a(n)dhhulae thribhavan soojhiaa gur bhaett puneethaa ||1|| and the blind man sees the three worlds, by meeting with the True Guru and being purified. ||1|| mihmw swDU sMg kI sunhu myry mIqw ] mehimaa saadhhoo sa(n)g kee sunahu maerae meethaa || This is the Glory of the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; listen, O my friends. mYlu KoeI koit AG hry inrml Bey cIqw ]1] rhwau ] mail khoee kott agh harae niramal bheae cheethaa ||1|| rehaao || Filth is washed away, millions of sins are dispelled, and the consciousness becomes immaculate and pure. ||1||Pause|| AYsI Bgiq goivMd kI kIit hsqI jIqw ] aisee bhagath govi(n)dh kee keett hasathee jeethaa || Such is devotional worship of the Lord of the Universe, that the ant can overpower the elephant. jo jo kIno Awpno iqsu ABY dwnu dIqw ]2] jo jo keeno aapano this abhai dhaan dheethaa ||2|| Whoever the Lord makes His own, is blessed with the gift of fearlessness. ||2|| isMGu iblweI hoie gieE iqRxu myru idKIqw ] si(n)gh bilaaee hoe gaeiou thrin maer dhikheethaa || The lion becomes a cat, and the mountain looks like a blade of grass. sRmu krqy dm AwF kau qy gnI DnIqw ]3] sram karathae dham aadt ko thae ganee dhhaneethaa ||3|| Those who worked for half a shell, will be judged very wealthy. ||3|| kvn vfweI kih skau byAMq gunIqw ] kavan vaddaaee kehi sako baea(n)th guneethaa || What glorious greatness of Yours can I describe, O Lord of infinite excellences? kir ikrpw moih nwmu dyhu nwnk dr srIqw ]4]7]37] kar kirapaa mohi naam dhaehu naanak dhar sareethaa ||4||7||37|| Please bless me with Your Mercy, and grant me Your Name; O Nanak, I am lost without the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||4||7||37|| Look how much courage we gain throug the Sadh Sangat. Even a terrifying Lion looks like a little cat. How do we recognize Sadh Sangat? Where Waaheguru is being praised with full devotion .

Personally I cannot go to any wedding where drinking and meat are being served. I have close friends from the time when I was a mona who ask me to come to their weddings, and I have rejected on the basis of religious principles. I go to the ANand Karaj, but its not possible for me to go to the party. I have chosen a different life which conflict with things like parties, drinking, eating meat ,etc. As Gursikhs we have to stay true to Gurus principles even if it doesnt make us popular or displeases other people.We cant go to places in which Guru Ji would be displeased. How are these things going to raise our spiritual jeevan? We need to be careful and wise about the company we keep. kbIr mnu pMKI BieE auif auif dh ids jwie ] kabeer man pa(n)khee bhaeiou oudd oudd dheh dhis jaae || Kabeer, the mind has become a bird; it soars and flies in the ten directions. jo jYsI sMgiq imlY so qYso Plu Kwie ]86] jo jaisee sa(n)gath milai so thaiso fal khaae ||86|| According to the company it keeps, so are the fruits it eats. ||86|| kbIr jw kau Kojqy pwieE soeI Tauru ] kabeer jaa ko khojathae paaeiou soee t(h)our || Kabeer, you have found that place which you were seeking. soeI iPir kY qU BieAw jw kau khqw Aauru ]87] soee fir kai thoo bhaeiaa jaa ko kehathaa aour ||87|| You have become that which you thought was separate from yourself. ||87|| kbIr mwrI mrau kusMg kI kyly inkit ju byir ] kabeer maaree maro kusa(n)g kee kaelae nikatt j baer || Kabeer, I have been ruined and destroyed by bad company, like the banana plant near the thorn bush. auh JUlY auh cIrIAY swkq sMgu n hyir ]88] ouh jhoolai ouh cheereeai saakath sa(n)g n haer ||88|| The thorn bush waves in the wind, and pierces the banana plant; see this, and do not associate with the faithless cynics. ||88|| kbIr Bwr prweI isir crY cilE cwhY bwt ] kabeer bhaar paraaee sir charai chaliou chaahai baatt || Kabeer, the mortal wants to walk on the path, carrying the load of others' sins on his head. Apny Bwrih nw frY AwgY AauGt Gwt ]89] apanae bhaarehi naa ddarai aagai aoughatt ghaatt ||89|| He is not afraid of his own load of sins; the road ahead shall be difficult and treacherous. ||89|| kbIr bn kI dwDI lwkrI TwFI krY pukwr ] kabeer ban kee dhaadhhee laakaree t(h)aadtee karai pukaar || Kabeer, the forest is burning; the tree standing in it is crying out,

Well said. Unfortunately many people like to generalize populations despite Guru Ji saying we shouldnt be making such generalizations. ihMdU qurk koaU rwPjI iemwm swPI mwns kI jwq sbY eykY pihcwnbo ] hi(n)dhoo thurak kooo raafajee eimaam saafee maanas kee jaath sabai eaekai pehichaanabo || Some are Hindus and others are Muslims. someone is lliifazi (ashiah=renouncer-follower of Ali) and another an Imam-Shafi (Sunni=adherent of the Prophet) but ye recognize all human race as one. and eykY nYn eykY kwn eykY dyh eykY bwn Kwk bwd Awqs AO Awb ko rlwau hY ] eaekai nain eaekai kaan eaekai dhaeh eaekai baan khaak baadh aathas a aab ko ralaao hai || All human beings have the same eyes, the same ears, the same body and the same build. All creation is a blend of the earth, the air, the fire and the water. jYsy eyk Awg qy knUkw kot Awg auTy inAwry inAwry huie kY Pyir Awg mY imlwihNgy ] jaisae eaek aag thae kanookaa kott aag out(h)ae niaarae niaarae hue kai faer aag mai milaahi(n)agae || As from a big fire, millions of sparks of fire arise, they get scattered and again they merge in the same fire. jYsy eyk DUr qy Anyk DUr pUrq hY DUr ky knUkw Pyr DUr hI smwihNgy ] jaisae eaek dhhoor thae anaek dhhoor poorath hai dhhoor kae kanookaa faer dhhoor hee samaahi(n)agae || As from a heap that consists of myriads of dust particles, those dust bits disperse and arise above and then those dust particles merge in the same dust.

without a doubt I believe this is cultural and has no place in Dharma. In the old days there were no fancy expensive weddings. Granthis, raagis were not payed X amount of dollars to do seva. In addition there was no need to pay thousands of dollars for a DJ or a wedding hall so people can dance and get drunk. Langar was provided by both families or the sangat. Instead nowadays we like to make weddings up according to Hindu Cultural practices. For example, nowadays people give money to the brides family. There is a Hukumnama by Dasmi Paatshah in which Guru Ji states that dowry is striclty forbidden. A Sikh women princess of Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Ji is not a peice of property which can be bought through money. Dowry is a dehumanizing practice and has no place in Sikhi which believes in gender/race equality. Here is a nice video that shows a simple Gurmat Orientated Anand Karaj . http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5326095/140413

I think its a wonderful idea to show videos how an Anand Karaj is suppose to be. You go to most weddings and you see the bride with make up all over her face, earings in her nose. The groom with a trimmed beard, and people get the idea that this is what an Anand Karaj is.

I heard it was a great wedding! Strictly spiritual no cultural elements included.

Yes, I thought so too. but what I understand from this is that the Nihangs practice a more puratanic form of Sikhism, which veers away from the more modern form of sikhism which was established after the 'Tat Khalsa' movement which grew in the patronage of British. So the group that went with mainstream Sikhism began to develop a silent or rather unspelt animosity with the Nihangs and the Udasis who were considered more pro-sanatanic and which directly derived vocabulary and inspiration from the dharmic-lexicon ? It is also fascinating for me personally to note the large extent to which the british penetrated the Indic society and how the vestiges of their rule haunt us to this day. If the Mughals were purely barbarity, the British were barbarity mixed with deep cunning and manipulation of human psyche to meet their own ends. Truly they set out and screwed the country nice and proper. And this ego clash within Sikhism between the sanatanics and the modernists is what is breeding the anti-Hinduism because the Sikhs as a community can't settle this amongst themselves since they can't raise their sword against brothers. It is weakening it from within. this much I can gather from responses by various members and some external reading from internet sources. indeed you have done you research. wha is now collectively known as "mainstream sikhi" is what was created by the SGPC (Singh Sabha). to actually encounter a tangible existance of the puratan snatan sikhi you will have to venture to Sri Hazoor Sahib Ji. here the original maryada is preserved, much to the unliking of the Tat Khalsa of Punjab. for more reference on this, invest in a book called "In The Master's Presence, the Sikhs of Hazoor Sahib". in this book there is the complete history of the true snatan sikh maryada which has been carried out since the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Lol, slaughtering Animals, performing Aarti, worshipping Babey. This is what you call puratan Sikhi? Are you a chela of Niddar? If you want to see the true side of Sikhi go to Sri Harmandir Sahib. Home of celesital shaheeds that protect Gurmat Maryada. Langar is only prepared by Amrit Dharis, whole complex is packed with sevadars doing seva 24/7. Naam Simran /Gurbani going on through out the day. That is true Sikhi which is based on Seva, SImran, Sadh Sangat, and Sacrifice. Not a sacricing an innocent goats head to please Shiva, Durga or whatever Hindu God.

I think this is a unfair assesment of Hindus. All Hindus are bad. In fact, there is no such thing as a Hindu religion. Meaning unlike Sikhi ,Hinduism is not a monolithic religion with set values. There are all different kinds of Hindus whos values/beliefs/customs are very diverse. Only the Hindu Fanatics like the RSS have tryed to make Hinduism into a uniformal religion. These morons have even gone to the extent of trying to include CHristians, Muslims ,and Sikhi into the Hindu fold. Its obvious that these moorakhs have lost the plot. U dint understand what I am saying. The GHOR SINFUL ACTIVITIES OF RSS is going to power the islamic militant organizations to create more havoc in India in the future. Its just a karmic thing. If India gets into trouble, punjabis and sikhs will have troubled times too but its all happening in the Will of God. India in the last 60 years has collected HUGE HUGE NEGATIVE KARMA. This negative karma is going to lead to the destruction of India in the near future. Sorry for misunderstanding your comments. I was just put off by your last remark about Hindus dying or converting. I agree no doubt that the tyrant will eventually fall flat on its face as tyrannts always have a bad fate. FOr example Hitler shot himself out of despair, Saddam Hussein was hanged, Taliban who kicked Sikhs out of the Swat are now being bombarded by AMericans,etc. But I dont think its a case in which India will be Islamized. The power of Naam is going to rebuild this country which once had a reputation of being the most spiritual place in the world.

Oops what I meant to say all Hindus arent Bad. If you read the remainding paragraph you will notice I am calling Hindu fanatics as bad.

I think its reasonable to have chairs and tables for those that cant sit on the floor, but unfortunately people try to take advantage of this policy for the eldery/handicapped. The same way people take Handicap parking spots! There should be signs that read chairs for those who cant sit.

I think this is a unfair assesment of Hindus. All Hindus arent bad. In fact, there is no such thing as a Hindu religion. Meaning unlike Sikhi ,Hinduism is not a monolithic religion with set values. There are all different kinds of Hindus whos values/beliefs/customs are very diverse. Only the Hindu Fanatics like the RSS have tryed to make Hinduism into a uniformal religion. These morons have even gone to the extent of trying to include CHristians, Muslims ,and Sikhi into the Hindu fold. Its obvious that these moorakhs have lost the plot.

If the Jathedar made a stand and decided not to visit any Gurdwaras that have chairs and tables the truth is he probabaly wont be visiting many Gurdwaras in the Birmigham area. Even SMethwick Gurdwaras has chairs and tables inside the langar hall.

It probably wont be hard to convince Badals chamcha Makkar to submit to RSS's request. "It also says for the sale and free use of all sorts of religious publications and symbols of the Sikh religion at the venue in a big way for the benefit of masses." i wonder what kind of Garbage literature they will be trying to pass out.