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AK-47 last won the day on June 9 2010

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  1. So is your issue with the paintings the accuracy? Nobody is really saying that the pics are necessarily accurate but are representations. If I take a photo, an accurate photo of guru Granth sahib Ji, is that suddenly ok? The question you ask ... Simple answer - teach them. Again I return to the baby and bath water analogy. Guru sahib was against idol worship, this is worshipping an inanimate object that cannot interact with you as if it were god, etc. Iv never heard of a sikh calling a painting god. If they do, teach them. Some will argue that Guru Granth Dahib Ji da satkar and seva is idol worship, will there be calls to stop this also? Neo Singhs post is great at raising the wider n deeper issues and worth reading. people say the gurus categorically said no to paintings of them, where? Does anybody have this pangti? As I said earlier it's another pointless mini jihad. If people got issues with Sikhs doin idol worship go fix the prob of them going to fake gurus this might be a more worthwhile fight then trying to remove representations of what the gurus, shaheeds etc may have looked like. Having taught young kids about the gurus through use of pics, I know they are useful.
  2. It's shocking sometimes how childlike sorry brat like people can get. Are we becoming the Taliban now?! Some people willing to accept a Persian source which will obv have islamic influence re images but not a sikh source because they say it had Hindu influence?! Ridiculous. And where do you stop if we become hell bent on removing images? A painting is an image, a picture of a flower is an image, pics of martyrs are images, pics of darbar sahib are images, pics of gurbani are images, gurbani itself is a written image of te shabad, do we get rid of it all? Do we uproot all of darbar sahib to remove images of flowers n birds? People get knickers in twist over gurus images but plaster pics of kids n family over homes. Such hypocrisy! Sant Kartar Singh Ji said that pics of guru sahibs are like a walking stick. They can help a person onto the path, they can help a person learn how to walk, but eventually the sikh has no need for pics (walking stick) n walks himself with bani. It's the usual throw the baby out with the bath water thing, rather than deal with the issue revisionists try n find a new jihad to fight! This is such a non issue it's funny, but at the same time it's expressive of the twisted way revisionists are trying to reframe Sikhi. Benti, beware of these people, they cause havoc by stirring pointless isssues but have no iinterest in real Sikhi of gurbani abhiyaas, naam kamai, seva of guru and sangat and spiritual progression. If you want to be a missionary of Guru Nanak Dev Ji then be one like Bhai Gurdas Ji. But oh hang on, you don't believe in his vaars, you can't open a pothi of his vaars near maharajh and you can't get your head around his words even if you do try. Never mind.
  3. That's great news! Missionaries have started moaning and criticising already! Saying bhai mani Singh Ji was never given padwi of Singh sahib etc. I bet bhai mani Singh Ji wasn't given a gold medal either but they seem to throw them at nastiks like dhundee
  4. An ok read, not sure about the protective ring around baba Jujhar Singh Ji though, first time I heard that. Ruined it with the last paragraph though. I instantly think of deh shiva and countless other shabads from guru sahib about desiring martyrdom. If we were only going to wish or desire things easily obtainable or achievable then would we even ask for naam as this is the hardest of all to obtain? Poetic license has left gurmat behind here I think.
  5. It's quite easy .. These days anyone you disagree with automatically becomes an undercover rss agent! Just about everyone iv ever met has been accused of being one at some point!
  6. Don't about anyone else, but my biological mother and father are married and my spiritual mother and father are married as well. How sad that our own Sikhs are calling the Khalsa a child born outside of marriage and that our mother mata sahib Kaur was 'kept' by guru sahib at anandpur sahib. Sometimes these so called historians and authors put pen to paper without thinking first, sharam da kata.
  7. Examples of guru sahib and gursikhs delivering lectures or sermons or updesh or katha or sakhiyan etc have been shared. Please do read or research them to see whether they happened or not. The need for katha to accompany kirtan is more important now than ever as we move further from our language and face doubts and challenges from society. Bhai dharam Singh zakhmi was a gem!! If you want anand listen to him doing kirtan n telling the sakhi with it. Pure bliss
  8. Kam from this site has been doing translations of the 'chapters' you can read them on his blog http://sikhscriptures2english.blogspot.com/
  9. Oops sorry the other one was when the bhraman came to Guru Arjan Dev Ji I believe and asked if he could do katha, maharajah allowed him, but nobody listened. He got angry and complained and maharajah gave him teachings which detail the 14 qualities needed in a person doing katha and 14 needed in the listener. This is still taught today. Other sakhi is to do with the Sikh in 6th guru jis times that would pull faces and swear at sangat during guru jis katha. Sangat complained but when this Sikh said remind me of the katha they couldn't n all they could remember was his actions. I.e mind wasn't focused on guru jis teachings but on his face. There's loads!!
  10. If you listen to the katha of Guru Nanak Dev Ji from sooraj parkash (or read it alone if that makes you happier) you will find sakhi after sakhi where maharajah visits places and does updesh I.e teaches Sikhi. Sometimes maharajah does something and then explains why, other times maharajah uses a shabad and then explains it's use, other times sangat gather and just ask maharajah for teachings. So yes maharajah did give lectures to the sangat. Guru Amar Das Ji set up 22 manji's ie places of learning and set gursikhs to go and teach gurmat. Again preaching was done both of gurmat and of gurbani and of guru sahibs greatness. When Bhai Gurdas Ji was in Agra he sat there and did katha and taught people about gurbani, Sikh philosophy and of guru Ji. He didn't just sit there with a vaja. Guru Har Krishan Sahib Ji blessed a poor dumb person with with a stick with the ability to do the katha of the Gita as this was seen to be an incredibly difficult thing to do. Again katha is seen as worthy albeit within a different dharam. Guru Gobind Singh Ji I also understand did katha of the whole of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So there are plenty of examples of katha in Sikh tradition. If they don't exist in certain parts of the panth, that is their own choice. Majority of the panth enjoys and learns from katha and understand it to be an integral part of Sikhi. At different stages of your Sikhi path you will get anand from different things. Sometimes seva, sometimes more kirtan, sometimes reading bani, listening to bani, listening to katha, doing jooreh di seva etc. Aim is to join mind with vaheguru and do simram constantly whilst doing any of the above. Whole argument is childish. It's like equivalent to asking which of your parents do you love more? love both, listen to both kirtan and katha. End of.
  11. Gurburakal, again I'm not questioning the artform. I understand that people are learning all the time which is great, I have no questions on their ability to learn or his ability to teach them different moves etc. My questions are around the credibility of the numerous claims being made. Let's be honest, it doesn't seem like the teacher has any combat experience, despite being an expert in it. If the art truly is the supreme art and he is the last warrior and master of the art, then we have someone who potentially has never faced real battle. I don't think it is a silly question at all since we are being told this is not an art that be demonstrated properly unless in full combat and that is the only time for it's full potential to be seen. Hence no competing in mainstream tournaments. Your karate teacher may teach to defend yourself against a street attack, he may be a bouncer who has experienced attacks n gives his life experience. A soldier teaching may give his experience of armed unarmed combat having served in battles. Here we are being taught full out battle, tactics, beheading, etc from someone who has never done any of it. Would you feel happy attending a boxing class by someone who had never entered the ring? My point is that as a martial art, it looks great, it may well even be a battlefield art. But is the teacher an experienced warrior with real combat experience? No.
  12. Gurburakal I have less of an issue with the artform and can accept that it's been used in some form or another historically. But my question is not whether the art has been tested per se, but whether the master and last Sikh warrior has. You mention that the prev teacher travelled to challenges n fought, I'm asking whether the current teacher has actually tested it against an opponent. I'm sure you appreciate that visiting a school is different from visiting and asking whether anyone has the courage or skill to compete. If the schools master refuses then it would be an obvious embarrassment. But the art remains untested. That's why I mentioned groups who would probably relish the challenge and not be intimidated etc. Has any attempt been made to arrange combat with these people? From my understanding Hari Singh nalwa had numerous one to one fights with afghan tribal champions, will this current teacher follow n proove his skill? And again Internet isn't going to proove skill, I'm not questioning the art, but I'm questioning whether the teacher has proven himself in armed combat against another foe. Not in the gym but proper combat, albeit not to the death.
  13. Those are nice quotes. But as a genuine question, many people refer to his challenge, and let's be honest most of his critics are usually young people, and to say go and fight him is easy to say. But has the challenge been extended to actual fighters from other places or just to our own people? I mean has he been to various schools, tribes, hostile areas where a challenge to duel with blood for honour and skill would be happily accepted? I know it's on the Internet, but has any attempt been made to actually test the artform in real combat? Given the countless conflicts and groups of actual warriors engaged in all types of battle and war it shouldn't be hard to go and challenge them to really test if it's a battle art? Not sure whether the other martial arts test their art in battle, but then as you say they're not shastar vidiya, and therefore not the supreme martial art as we are told. With all honesty has any attempt to fight afghan tribesmen, somalii, Chechen guerillas, etc happened? If the last Sikh warrior can't fight these people, what chance have the rest of us got?
  14. So it's not a Sikh art and it predates Sikhi? I thought niddars last version was that guru Nanak Dev Ji was given this art when they went to sachkhand at the time they received mool mantar, they then passed it to baba budha Ji who then taught it to guru hargobind sahib Ji. I'm not sure where he got the above from, but are you saying that his source has now changed again? Hmmm As for last warrior that is hilarious!! An artist demonstrating a martial art conceptionally yes perhaps. But a warrior, unless he's used this art in war and experienced the battlefield then he remains an artist. For a real warrior look to general subaigh Singh Ji. A general, mastermind, strategist, a leader of warriors and fighters, himself experienced in war, death and killing.
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