humgareeb

Fair point - don't judge a book by it's cover. Perhaps you can give us your opionion when you have had a chance to read the whole book. It's just I have had first hand experience with these nangs and they are becoming more popular to some factions of young boys who are easily led and see their way as the easy way out. i.e. be a sikh with bana but still do all the puthay kam...

Totally agree - we need to wake up and realise that most of the time that sikhi was attacked was because of people with our own circles prtending to be 'Sikh's'. Again these guys are doing the same thing with their brahmin infitrated ideology. They claim the british changed the way sikhi was - yet that's exactly what they are doing. They believe in the 4 sects of Udhasis, Nirmalay, Seva Panthis and Akali nihangs. Guru gobind Singh breated one khalsa panth with no divisions. Don;t let these Giddar's fool you!! http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/62167-gt1588-exhibition-on-the-golden-temple-of-amritsar/

Yes! Be aware!! Sikhi is being attacked from these giddar's. Just because they have dastars and beards doesn't make them sikh..! Bahmins in disguise I say!

Yeah maybe those people should.. But Internet is a way of getting out the message to people before more people get trapped and brainwashed, before it's too late.

That video is nothing like AKJ smagams, they dont have somebody there telling you to move your body like that or in anyway at all. People who do move around do it for their own concentration or whatever, and I have never seen an AKJ smagam where they are jumping around as much as that video.

Well lets agree to disagree then - cuz we could be here all day! This post has been diverted off the orignal topic. Bhai Randhir Singh was possibly one of the only people who has written so extensively about pretty much every topic in sikhi, from Anhad Sahabad Dasam Duaar to Gurmat principles, Grammer of SGGS, Life after death , the Unseen world etc and someone who became one with god and had Guru's darshan. In addition, he starved in jail for 40 days - is that logicaly possible? He prevented the jailers from force feeding him meat by leaving his body and separating his soul from it at will - is that logically possible? The list of things which we can't see with our eyes goes on. just because we can;t see that with our eyes, doesn't make them impossible. Gurbani talks about god in everybeing - just because people can't see god, does that make that illogical as well?

I like your assessment. Although I give Malhi a few years, you'll see his true colours when he satrts shaking hands with badal!! He appears to be pro youth etc.. Hes a control freak. Did you see him on Sangat tv the other day at parkash smagam, running after the presenter like headless chicken trying to get airtime. He's so full of himself it's unbelievable. Not that sohi is an angel, but if the only other option is Malhi, sohi gets my vote. Had it not been for the other sevadars in the last committee, Malhi would have recked the school project by giving the project to his relatives and himself. Rather than saving £5m it would have prob gone in his pocket.

The fact that baba deep singh fought valiantly with a a khanda which most people can't even pick up in one hand shows that he was a far greater being that any of us. Whether you 'logically thinking RSS infiltrated scientists' want to belive that his head was severed or not makes no difference to me. Furthermore, the more important point is that Guru Sahib is an all prevading power which can make anything possible. It makes that clear in Gurbani time and time again. If we don't accept that as the truth then it's our own shortcomings. Gurbani = truth!! That's all you need to know - all else is false! ਪ੍ਰਭ ਭਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਾਸ ਤੇ ਰਾਖੈ || If it pleases God, the body is preserved, even without the breath of life. (SGSS 277) ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਜੀਵਾਲੈ || My True Guru kills and revives. (SGSS 1142) ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰਿ ਜੀਵਾਲੇ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ || He Himself kills, and gives life; there is no other at all. (SGSS 1069) In addition: There are gurdwaras / historical places to mark where Baba deep Singh drew the line, where is head came off, where his sees was bhet - FACT! Panja Sahib marks where Guru Nanak stopped the rock - FACT! Reethas from only one tree in the whole world are sweet, where Guru Nanak Sahib visited. All aother Reethay are naturally not sweet. - FACT! Science would find these all illogical. Sikhi is far ahead of Science and always will be, because its the truth! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following passage from Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's writing (Translated by Kulbir Singh), should dispel all doubts about what happened at the time of Shaheedi of Baba Deep Singh jee: Original Text: ਏਹੀ ਕਾਰਨ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਤਰੂ ਦਲ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਜਿਸ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮੇਸ਼ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਤੀਰ ਵਿੰਨਦਾ ਸੀ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਆਦ ਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸੀ, ਪੀੜ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਹੁੰਦੀ, ਸਗੋਂ ਵਾਹ ਵਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਅਮਰ ਅਨੰਦੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸੀ। ਭਾਵੇਂ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਹੋਵੇ ਭਾਵੇਂ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ। ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਖੰਡੇ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ ਰਸ ਚਖਕੇ ਵੈਰ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਦੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਨਾਲ ਸੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਭੀ ਸੀਤਲ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਾਤ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਸਨ। ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਬਾਬੇ ਦਾ ਸੀਸ ਧੜ ਤੋਂ ਉਤਰਿ ਗਇਆ ਹੈ, ਨਾਮ ਦਿਆਂ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਸਹਿਤ ਲਾਲੋ ਲਾਲ ਹਸਮੁਖੀ ਚੇਹਰੇ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਾਂਤ ਮਈ ਨੂਰ ਜਿਉਂ ਕਾ ਤਿਉਂ ਦਗ ਦਗ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੀਸ ਧੜ ਦੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਵਿਚ ਸੁਰਖਰੂ ਹੋ ਚੁਕੇ ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਬਾਬੇ ਦਾ ਸੀਸ, ਬਾਬੇ ਦੀ ਬਾਂਵੀ ਭੁਜਾ ਉਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਾਜਮਾਨ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ ਪਿੜ ਦੇ ਖਿਡਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਹੱਲੇ ਦਾ ਨਜ਼ਾਰਾ ਵੇਖਿ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਸ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸੀਸੋਂ ਸਖਣਾ ਧੜ ਦਹਿਣੀ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਦੇ ਸਹਾਰੇ ਖੰਡਾ ਉਲਾਰ ਉਲਾਰ ਕੇ ਸੈਕੜਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਾਰ ਬੁਲਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਨਹੀਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਰਬਤ ਚਖਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ। ਅਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਮੀਲ ਲਗਾਤਾਰ ਇਸੇ ਬਹਾਰ ਬੱਝੀ ਤੁਰੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਸਾਰ ਏਹ ਨਿਕਲਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਟਿੱਡੀ ਦਲ ਸ਼ਤਰੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਫੌਜ ਇਕ ਆਣ ਵਿਚ ਖੇਰੂ ਖੇਰੂ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। (Gurmat Bibek page 146) Humble Translation: This is the reason that whoever from the enemy side got shot by Siri Dasmesh jee's arrow, used to feel bliss and did not used to feel pain; rather doing Vaah Vaah, he (the enemy) used to receive everlasting bliss. It did not matter if he was a Hindu or a Muslim. After tasting the Khanda (double-edged sword) of Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee, the hearts that used to burn in the fire of enmity and opposition, used to become cool and peaceful. The head of Shaheed Baba jee has gotten severed from the body but the happy (hasmukhi) face, imbued in the divine colours of Naam, is still shining exactly as before. After becoming free from test of life, the head of Shaheed Baba, while resting on the palm of left hand, is becoming blissful watching the attacks of players of the Shaheedi-battlefield; and with the support of right arm of the headless body (of Baba jee) the Khanda is moving and killing hundreds. No no, it is having them drink the Sharbat (sweet drink) of martyrdom. And this spring-like scene continues for 3 miles and the result of this (miracle) is that the army of the enemy is destroyed. Vichaar: The above passage makes it clear that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee believed that Baba Deep Singh jee's head fully got severed from the body and Baba jee actually held his fallen head with his left hand and with his right hand he continued to slaughter the enemy. Whoever got hit by Baba jee's Khanda did not feel pain but felt peace and tranquility. Second thing is that Bhai Sahib has written that whoever died through hands of Baba jee did not die but attained martyrdom. This is a great concept that is unique to Sikhi. Bhul chuk dee Muaafi jee. Kulbir Singh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God has the power to do anything, and yes that also means change the laws of physics! I you don't believe that, then you probably don't believe in god either. And they aren't just fantasy stories, go to Panja sahib you'll see guru Nanak Dev jis hand print, go to trebeni sahib and you'll see the river there, go and eat the sweet rithas from only one tree.. Try and explain those in laws of physics.. You won't be able to!!

I also heard down the grapevine that he paid them a 'large' amount of money to give him this.. tut tut.. looks like he's bringing the techniques used in punjab to the UK...

Sikhi believes in logic and reason, however Sikhi also believes in faith, devotion and Guru Jee/Akaal Purakh can make the impossible possible. Logically it is impossible for a "human being" to sit on an iron plate, have hot sand poured over the head and still repeat "I accept Your Will Sweetly". Logically it is impossible for a "human being" to be boiled alive and calmly recite Japji Sahib in bliss. The list goes on. There is no limit to Guru Jee/Akaal Purakh's blessings. If Guru nanak sahib can stop stone with one hand and his panja is still in the stone, if guru gobind singh sahib produce trebeni with one blow of neja on ground in guru ka lahor, if Guru sahibs horse can make water come out of the ground with his one foot blow in the area where is impossible to get water other wise, especially when sikhs have made big buildings around , without getting a drop of water out of the ground, if Reethas can be sweet, if Bhai Bidhi chand sheena can enter into burning furnace, If Bhai Randheer Singh ji and whole sangat witness a singh flying and doing parkarma of guru Granth sahib,Why can't Baba Deep singh shaheed hold his head on his palm and fight. Everything is logical, important thing is how to understand a logic. Remote control, TV, Planes, Tanks, mobile phones, internet, electricity, computers, iphone, tube lights and many many more things were illogical some years ago as well. Everything is logical, people just need to understand logic in proper manner. To understand logic of Baba Deep singh ji's shaheedi, you need to be drowned in the logic of NAAM RAS.

Depends on what logic you are talking about. Niddar's logic is flawed and seems so is yours! You only have to look at the activities which most of his shagirids induldge in to see what they do and preach. Plus I have had discussions with some of them on these topics.

I am not stopping anyone from going - just be aware. Below are some extracts taken from niddars website. This is just a quick 20 mins search. --------------- Even today, mainstream Sikhs detest the idea that they are 'Hindu', yet Sanatan Sikhs such as Udasis, Nirmalas and Akali Nihangs speak of themselves as being part of the Hindu world. --------------- In conclusion, it can be said that the A.K.J. can be considered as being modern Sikh fundamentalists who, in their own way, are doing their best to promote their own particular brand of Sikhism – a brand which they consider to be the only true form that should be allowed to be propagated. Many A.K.J. Sikhs today, even though they may object to the term 'fanatic', can be considered as Sikh religious fanatics. Prime examples from their ranks have already been mentioned above, such as Talwinder Singh Parmar and Fauja Singh that illustrate their fanatical attitude. The situation as it stands is that certain fanatics in the UK, who associate themselves with what they consider to be 'Dam Dami Taksal' have already tried, like their Akhand Kirtani Jatha counterparts, to suppress the truth by attempting to threaten, intimidate, slander and attack in gangs, some of of the more vulnerable and isolated young 'Shagirds' (students) associated with the Akali Nihang Baba Darbara Singh Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Ranjit Akhara. They have been unsuccessful in preventing the truth from being known. --------------- In conclusion it can be stated that Samparda Chowk Mehta is no more than an offshoot of Nirmala tradition and is one of the many 'Shakha' (branches) of the great Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh-established 'Dam Dami Taksal', and not THE Dam Dami Taksal as they would have us believe. --------------- Another fascinating rule that exists within this institution is that prevent/suppress sexual thoughts and feelings of uncontrolled lust, 2 men are not allowed to share a beadstead or blanket. This rule was introduced by Baba Thakur Singh and seems to have given credence to strong rumours of serious paedophilia and homosexuality problems within the Chowk Mehta Samparda. Why else should such a rule be introduced if not to prevent incidents that have taken place? --------------- One may also state for certain that if Jarnail Singh had not caught the imagination of the historically ignorant and gullible Sikh populace with this falsified history of Samparda Chowk Mehta, then the movement he inspired would not have taken off. The violent, destructive, strategically and tactically short-sighted, politically naive and militant'Khalistani' movement that remains Jarnail Singh's legacy would not have gained such momentum. This episode in Sikh history has forever tainted Sikhs around the world as potential terrorists, fanatics, fundamentalists and religious zealots. --------------- Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangu describes the dress and manner of Akali Nihang Baba Gurbakhsh Singh, whom the 'Dam Dami Taksal' of Chowk Mehta claim to be their second Jathedar: 'Listen to the story of Gurbakhsh Singh Nihang and learn. Attained well did he martyrdom at Amritsar. He was a Nihang and a great warrior. Wore he blue dress and kept the conduct well. Waking in the morning he drank Sukha. Becoming intoxicated he brushed his teeth.' 'Pracheen Panth Prakash', 1832, Expurgated by Vir Singh, Pa.414Giani Gian Singh Nirmala adds further information with regards to Akali Nihang Baba Gurbakhsh Singh, shedding more light on his daily practice of life: 'Listening [to coming of Afghans] the Singhs got ready weapons and chain mail they adorned on body.Chatka goats, they drunk goblets of opium and Sukha, Gurbakhsh Singh was the groom others the wedding party.' 'Naveen Panth Prakash', Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, 1899, Bhasha Vibhag, Pa.928

As I have said before, the exhibition may be good and have some new artefacts paintings we have never seen before, but just be aware about getting suckered into believe everything they tell you. i.e. No one other than Niddar singh knows anything about SV, they are the true sikhs, all other jathebandis have lost the plot. Their version of sikhi in the easy way out - learn martial arts, go clubbing, drinking, have gf/bfs, guru gobind singh chopped bakray in 1699... etc... that's what I'm talking about, trying to twist our history.

I am not stopping you from going and I agree with you, but all I am saying is be careful of believing everyhthing they say. Obviously they can't come out say what their views really are becasue a lot of people wouldn't go. I know most of these guys and their idea is to draw in people and then through subtle mis-conceptions using their brahmin ideology they will slowly start putting doubts in people minds about how the british changed how sikhi really was, how guru raam das is and incarnation of Raam, how we aree just really hindus, how all the panthic jathebandis nowadays are deluded, etc Taking the religiion to a wider audienece is not the issue, it's twisting the history into something that it is not. Why pick hazoor sahib where we all now the most controversial things happen, it's to back up his ideology of chatka, bhang, eating meat, bramhinistic rituals etc

http://goldentemple1588.com/resource/thunder-and-lightening/

The following is taken from the exibition website: "It should be generally known that a wonderful event took place lately in the Golden Temple. This building was erected by the great Guru Ram Dass King of Kings and incarnation of Ram who gives blessings and receives worship from all creatures." So now they also believe that Dhan Guru Ram Das was an incarnation of the hindu god Ram?

http://goldentemple1588.com/resource/books/ The latest book by Giddar Nang is called 'The Sikhs of Hazoor Sahib'. Why just of Hazoor Sahib? The majority of the Panth doesn't even agree with the marayada at hazoor sahib, yet it looks as though Niddar is using this as an example of how sikhi should be... What about all the other gurdwaray ? Rate he's going he might be chief of the RSS soon!

I am not stopping anyone going, no doubt that there may be some good stuff there, but my point was to make people aware of the possible drive and ideology behind this and make sure they don't fall into the trap of believeing everything that is said or portrayed. Do your own research, compare to what Guru Granth Sahib ji actually says. It's very easy for this kind of event to mis-inform people. Hopefully they will be able to back up their claims from reseach and show the sangat, not just make them believe that they are the only known nihangs left on this earth who know anything about sikhi and shaster vidya (which is total BS). I don't care how good the exhibition is, if they put down panthic jathebanids, gurmukhs, bhagat, gursikhs they aren't even worthy of the dust of their feet. Period.

http://niddar.blogspot.com/

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/62167-gt1588-exhibition-on-the-golden-temple-of-amritsar/

Bhen ji, It is no secret and quite common knolwdge that the UKPHA organisers Paramjit Singh / Amandeep Madra and Davinder Toor are hardcore supporters of Niddar. Paramjit can be seen in the Hazoor sahib video alongside Niddar! When their ideology is blatenty against sikhi tenents, then why are they allowing Niddar to speak at this event?

When I saw the ad's for this exhibition at first I thought WOW!! that will be good, and on the face of it it seems like an excellent attempt at bringing out historical facts, pictures and artefacts that we may have not seen before. But then as I made myself more familiar with the website the organisers of this exhibition came to light - Nang Niddar Singh and his crew! http://gt1588.eventbrite.com/ Without seeing the exhibition I cannot comment on the contents, and they may be genuine, but it seems as though the drive behind this is to invite people to the exhibtion and then using the books, literature and talks to plant thier mis-interpreted, brahmin infiltrated ideolgy into people. Everyone knows the ideololgy that these guys have, they believe: Sikhs are a sect of hindus they are the only true sikh khalsa warriors (all other jathebandis - taksal, akj, other nihangs etc are all deluded and fake) going clubbing, eating meat, getting drunk, having extra-marital relationships before marriage is OK. Vishnu was the first Akali nihung that they pray to before Guru Gobind Singh That only they know what the true shaster vidya is and true sikhi - apprently it all got diluted by the british. etc Niddar claims to be the last known true warrior of the Nihangs who knows Shaster Vidya - yeah he might be, but that doesn't give him the authority to put everyone else down including panthic jathebandis, sant, mahapursh etc and spread lies. Everyone has seen the videos on youtube - of him trying to be a big man in hazoor sahib and then apologising and also getting beats by Uptej Singh, whose gatka Niddar plays down as fake. What does everyone else think about this exhibtion?

Ask them to make sure the gianni there shouldn't also make/eat meat on the premises. He shouldn't even be doing granthi seva there if he eats meat?