SinghWarrior

I completely agree, Committees need to WAKE UP, SMELL THE COFFEE, and realise the Sangat will no longer tolerate their massive disregard for Sikh Principles. THE SANGAT HAVE SPOKEN - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! NO MORE BEADBI OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE IN OUR GURDWARAS WILL BE TOLERATED.

I think the point needs to be re-iterated once again: No-one has any desire to ruin any family's personal occasion. Personally, Gurmat dictates to me that meat and alcohol parties are wrong, and happiness should be celebrated with Gurbani, Naam and Keertan. BUT, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, DON'T USE OUR GURDWARA PROPERTIES TO HAVE MEAT AND ALCOHOL ON THEM - it's a SIMPLE MESSAGE!!! If the family and the committee want a party, do it elsewhere, not on Gurdwara property. A list of other local venues has been provided for them.

I'm not saying non-turban wearing Sikhs cannot be Sikhs, but our Guru ji tells us dastaar is compulsory, so a Sikh must follow his Guru's Hukams.

SAYING THE ABOVE, are you even a Sikh? Guru Gobind Singh Ji says: "Rehni Rahae, So-ee Sikh Mera. Oh Sahib, Mae Us Ka Chaera".

Mr Medare - I think you must have cucumber on your eyes or something. 3 meetings have been held held or been attempted to be held over the last 3 or so months to explain to them through dialogue. Meeting 1: By Satkaar Sevadaars - the committee ended up getting very abusive to the youth. Meeting 2: By all West Midlands Gurdwara leaders - at first the committee refused to meet, and then only did so for a short while after keeping the parbandhiks waiting for more than an hour. At this meeting, the Dudley committee knowingly gave false promises, which they immediately broke the next day. Meeting 3: This was again going to be arranged by the police, though the committee said they did not want to meet the Gurdwara leaders. The Dudley committee have refused dialogue or to listen to the Sikh sangat or akal takht. Peaceful protest has only arisen after all other means have failed.

Hanji - it is most important that it remains peaceful. These people at Dudley, as they did at Grays, will try to provoke the sangat into a reaction for which they will then seek to label the sangat as extremist Sikhs. Let's not fall for their games. Being disciplined and showing Gursikh virtues and values will send a much more powerful message, than indiscipline, swearing and shouting at the Dudley committee.

As Kam on the Sikh Youth Show would say, the above poster "hit the nail on the head" ==> Seriously, Dudley committee-wale, there is yet time for you all to drop your ego, realise your mistake and stop meat, parties and alcohol at the Sikh Cultural Centre!

Oh my Vahiguroo. Our community really is in a pitiful state when we have the like of Mr Medare (and people like him in the Dudley committee) going to these extreme lengths to justify their passion for meat and alcohol in Gurdwara buildings. Sad state of affairs. Aman bhajee makes an important point - these dudley lot will be looking for any excuse to point fingers at the sangat. It is most important that the sangat maintains their discipline on the day, joining in with the simran, mool mantar, chaupai sahibs and kirtan.

I had to do some research to work out what you meant by subsidiarity. When I found out what it meant, my reply is that you should understand that the Sikh faith works along the basis of a Nation/Quam/Panth. Therefore, your concept of subsidiarity only applies in a general sense, though where there is a gross abuse of Sikh principles (as the Dudley committee is doing), akal takht has every right to intervene and override what the locals are doing. THIS IS THE SIKH WAY OF DOING THINGS. IF THE DUDLEY GURDWARA COMMITTEE DISAGREES WITH THIS, THEY SHOULD RESIGN FROM THEIR POSITIONS AS CUSTODIANS OF A GURDWARA!

"Gurmat1699" - The right of peaceful protest is embedded in all western democracies. What are you trying to suggest? I sincerely hope your comments are not veiled threats, albeit in a sarcastic way.

It's a separate place, which is (or was, until very recently) owned and managed by the Gurdwara. You are trying to defend the indefensible. Does Akal Thakht not meaning anything to you and the rest of your Dudley committee?

Mr Medare, Can you please explain how "very good Sikhs" can allow the Sangat's money be used for promoting meat and alcohol? Where/how does Sikhi allow this? Why can't you accept that this practice has been outlawed by the highest authority for Sikhs?

Some Singhs from up North met the Jathedaars last night at Shepherd's Bush Gurdwara. I hear they fully endorsed the Satkaar Campaign, and the Singhs said they have this on video. On Monday night, the Jathedaars were asked to take strict action against Dudley, and they they gave an undertaking that they will write a letter to the Dudley committee once they are back in India, asking for the committee to stop or pesh at akaal takht. It's the turn of the "Sikh Media" now to start advertising the protest. Hopefully, they will step up to do this soon.

Kaljugi - haven't you read the previous thread? Turn up on the day, along with hundreds of other UK Sangat members, and you will see the truth. There was a meeting last night at Guru Har Rai Sahib Gurdwara, West Bromwich of all Pardaans and Parbandhiks of the main midlands Gurdwaras. They agreed they will be attending the protest to support the Satkaar Campaign. Also, there will be announcements to this effect at the midlands Gurdwaras this coming weekend, encouraging the Sangat to attend the protest. It is important that Sangat turns out in large numbers, to send a strong message once and for all to all UK Gurdwaras, that the Sangat has now had enough of this Beadbi and will not let it happen going forwards. Meat, alcohol and parties have no place in our Gurdwaras, and Sangat money MUST NOT be used to promote this.

I gather local sevadaars from the main towns and cities, including East London, Southall/Slough, Leicester, Coventry and Leeds are pulling together to organise transport. Please speak to active naujawaan Singh/Singhneean in your area to find out about this transport, or if nothing is happening, take the initiative YOURSELF to arrange transport. Remember, it's YOUR Guru that is being disrespected, so the onus falls on YOU to do something about it. Each Sikhsangat member should be aiming to bring at least 5 people with them on the day, and forwarding texts/emails to all Sikhs in their address books.

It is well known in the UK that he had an affair with a younger girl from India, whilst he was married with children in the UK. I understand this is the reason for him leaving the UK and not coming back, as UK Gurdwaras stopped giving him stage time. Can't comment on the meat and alcohol allegation, nor do I know whether he ever went pesh for committing the Bujjar Kurehit of adultery.

Yes - it will make politicians work harder for votes as they will require a 50% majority of votes to be elected. This will make the Sikh vote bank more influential. We should persuade others around to say Yes to AV!

You're right to be skeptical, but a Gursikh who was there told me that the Moorti Pooja happens every year as part of the Nagar Keertan. The committee do nothing to discourage it, and some committee members actually take part in it. Remember, the Gurmat credentials of this committee aren't great. They also have a Meat/Sharaab party hall. I hope that the Satkaar Campaign will approach them soon about this issue.

The problem here is that it is being orchestrated by the Huddersfield Gurdwara committee. They're the ones that are responsible for promoting Gurmat. BUT it appears they themselves are indulging/promoting this Manmat activity.

How about Admins set the Sangat a target to collectively do "X" number of Chaupai Sahib Paaths for the Chardikala of the Panth? Something similar to what the UK naujawaan did a couple of years ago to commemorate the 25th anniversary of 1984. This will be a positive, Gursikhi step, which engages the youth in Naam/Bani.

There's no harm in our Hindu brothers singing praises of Jagat Guroo, Guroo Granth Sahib Jee. BUT, standing by idly, when the "Sangat" is going into the Mandir to do Moorti Pooja - what's all that about?!?!? An absolute disgrace that "our" Gurdwara committees are colluding in, and even promoting, this kind of behaviour. I hear this has been going on for the last 7/8 years. Where is the Zameer (conscience) of these committee members for Gurmat/Sikhi values?

I'm aware that this issue of Drayton Manor Park was being dealt with on a legal level by UNITED SIKHS a few years ago. I'm not quite sure where they got to on this. Hopefully, they might be able to shed some light on the status of that case.

BUMP!

Dudley committee's actions are disgraceful. If they do not fulfil the definition of masands, I do not know who else will. Firstly they are continuing to divert Sangat bheta towards their thirst for meat and alcohol, and now they are letting alcoholics loiter in the Gurdwara, and even attack the Wazir of Guroo Jee. These "prabhandaks" have no right to even be involved in a Gurdwara. Absolute shame on them!

Or even do the same discussion on the Sunday evening Sikh Channel slot?