VanHelsingh

At last! Some clarity. Okay, so I understand that Darshan Singh is leading this revolt against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Ever since I was a little kid, I use to remember he was a pretty big deal in terms of dharmac prachaar. My dad had vinyl records of his kirtan - I was very surprised to learn that he is leading the 'charge' against Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Wasn't he a really respected jathedar in Sikhi? HOWEVER, he also seems to be against the external (Hindu-influenced) forces that are looking to cause harm to Sikhi. So is he objecting to the Granth as a whole or just the (so-called) contentious sections of it that are being interpreted in different ways by different people? If so, why are some people saying he is "in" with the Hindu politicians when he's preaching that we should be careful about the same Hindu groups who wish to hurt our religion? Sadly I don't have access to any of the Sikhi channels on satellite TV, and the only news of this kind I hear is from Punjab Radio on DAB. Whilst I don't agree with their stance on some issues (mainly that ALL sants should not be revered - even if they're good), they are very pro-Sant Jarnail Singh Ji BUT are also apparently supportive of Darshan Singh. Is such a stance possible? Apologies if some of my questions are basic, but as you can tell I haven't really got an understanding of Sikhi from a modern, politicial perspective.

What is the issue with certain groups in Sikhi who are against the Sri Dasam Granth? Are they disputing its authenticity or is it something else? It wasn't until a year ago that I realised there was an issue. I suppose some people have interpreted Sri Dasam Granth wrongly and are worried about certain aspects, thus they are under the impression that if Sri Dasam Granth is revered it will somehow negatively affect Sikhi somehow? I don't know - apologies if I've misunderstood.

Not everyone's a beauty! Some poor fellas have their mother's in their ear encouraging them to usher in the new generation - whether the husband desires his wife or not! :lol: BTW, I'm not referring to myself either - I'm flying solo at the moment.

Its okay to drink milk and eat yoghurt as a Sikh? Is cheese considered permissable?

It will take either a monumental shift in the collective psyche of decent, honest and determined Sikhs to 'will' something of this magnitude into fruition, OR it will take the arrival of a special individual who will galavanise and unite all the disparate sections of our faith under one banner. Sadly that one individual was erased from the scene in 1984, and call me cynical but such men aren't born easily and so regularly.

True, we do need our own land. But who will run it? What if the likes of Badal or others like him position themselves to take charge? Will a peaceful transition be possible? Or will we have to see a civil war to stop these charlatans taking power, and prevent them from repeating the same mistakes as they are now? You know as well as I do, the power-hungry, money-obsessed politicians and leaders we have in the Punjab will not graciously step aside for the good of Sikhi.

The Gurdwara near me does the Anand Sahib just as the New Year is about to strike - so at about 11.59pm, the Kirtani jatha are at the stage of Anand Sahib where it says "Jinee Naam Teaya, Gai Mechatak Kaal, Nanak Teh Mak Oojle Kiti Shuti Naal". Its awesome when the Kirtani Jatha gets it bang-on 12.00am. :cool:

You see, do you mean non-Amritdhaari as in someone who hasn't got Kes or a Dhaari, or someone who is in Sikhi saroop but hasn't taken Amrit?

I doubt it because its such a serious, revered article of faith. But I could be wrong.

A very talented Sikh produced this painting on an art forum. I think its of Guru Gobind Singh Ji resting in Machiware jungle. Link to original source.

Maybe they're trying to strengthen inter-faith ties? :lol: (Personally I prefer Jingle Bells...) :ph34r:

Why do you think? He was the first to come along and confront the Hindus and the Muslims about some of their nonsensical practices. Who wants to be told that the religion they've been following for thousands of years has been distorted?

This is one argument that stumps me - what is it about people who say "This is [insert year here] - get with it!". So what? By that logic, by the time 2050 comes around, we should all be walking around in the glory of how we left our mother's wombs! :sad: While I'm all for progress and forward-thinking, these issues don't extend to shedding clothes as the years go by - and dressing immodestly in a Gurughar. If you want to dress like a fool, there's 101 opportunities to do so, without visiting the Gurudwara. At least spare one place that's sacred, for the love of God.

May he find peace at Waheguru's charan (feet). :waheguru:

Generally (and not referring to any present Sants in particular), I think some elements of the sangat elevate even a worthy Sant / Mahapursh to lofty levels - even if the Sant / Mahapursh has told them clearly to stop doing such things. People seem to think the Sant is being falsely modest even though he categorically has stated not to bow to him, etc. People just need to calm themselves and always keep in mind that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the number 1.

Yeah, but there's a difference between giggling in the privacy of your own home, and giggling when you've been giving a platform to air your views, on a very serious subject on a national radio station. Dr. Singh must've been pushing 60 from what I guessed - yet he giggled at the worst possible time! (I giggled too but that's beside the point)...:lol: Thankfully there was another caller after the doctor, called Hardev Singh or Hardeep Singh. He was very savvy, and tackled the subject in a very logical yet respectful manner, i.e. religious sentiments were adhered to without sounding like a fanatic. So fair play to him whoever he was.

I made a post about this on Friday in the thread called 'The Reality of Sikh Girls'. I only heard about 20 mins of the show before I had to leave. I think the presenter wasn't Nihal on this occasion, and he seemed to be conducting the debate quite well, in as much as trying to be respectful without being a fool about the issue. The girl called 'Abs' was talking utter nonsense. You get the classic argument from these people of: "Hey, its 2010. Get in the modern world". Pathetic. Anyway, the first Sikh caller (who was an elderly 'doctor' I think) was probably not the best person to have on as a representative of the community. I understood the point he was trying to make but his English was quite broken, and it was very difficult to understand what he was saying. At one point he actually started giggling when the presenter mentioned the word 'knickers', and that wasn't the best thing to do IMO.

There's ways of making a stand against certain Islamic groups without joining the EDL. We're not doing ourself any favours by aligning with these far-right groups - even though they argue they aren't far-right.

This is something I hope I never succumb to in my life. Whilst there's nothing wrong with respecting or looking up-to certain individuals, the whole subservient, "sahib knows best" attitude is a problem, especially might I say affecting some of the elder members of our community. But I'm not criticising those elders who paved the way for us - I'm sure they had to contend with issues that we could never dream of. I'm just saying times have moved on, and there's no need for us to kowtow to our English hosts. Sycophantic is the word for sure. But again that balance needs to maintained of not alienating oneself from the wider population, BUT having the strength of one's convictions to speak against issues that need to be highlighted, and NOT shying away from confronting our "sahibs" (:D) in-case they get offended. Yup definitely, I know all about the C.I.A. funding Islamic jihadis in their fight against the USSR, and how the British sold arms to the Iraqi's in the 80's, etc. Its a terrible mess and a collection of events that the hypocritical agencies of the west have conveniently forgotten in their 'War on Terror'. As for Islam I know this may sound silly, but I can't forgive them for the horror they inflicted on our ancestors. Its something that I've felt since childhood and it ain't getting any easier to live with. I know its simplistic to equate a barbarous regime (the Mughals) to the Muslims in the world today, but after studying their ideologies and religious practices, its plain to see their desire to convert and subjugate non-Muslims is still as strong, if slightly more subtle than those dreadful times of old. Yet these dangers are posed not by Islamic armies but some normal, civilian Muslims - all without having factored militant Islam into the equation! I hope someone (or an organisation) in our community has the balls to stand-up and call a spade a spade. As long as it doesn't seem as if we're sympathising with Islamic militants, if the British think they can recruit us to fight their phony wars then they are very much mistaken. But looking at the up-coming generation of (non-religious, overly westernised) Sikhs, I'm a bit worried. John Pilger is the guy who asks those uncomfortable, butt-clenchingly awkward questions that nobody asks anymore. John Pilger's website is cool if you want to read some more about his take on the issues.

John Pilger is a legend. Its a bit weird to see the above programme on something as tabloid as ITV1. Still, its a very good programme that should be watched to understand how the masses are manipulated in their own homes. In terms of Sikhs being targetted for recruitment in fighting immoral Western wars, to be honest dalsingh, I reckon most of the Sikhs in the Western world haven't got the heart to fight for our own causes - fighting for someone else's dubious interests shouldn't be an issue. However, these insidious government agencies should'nt be allowed to peddle their propaganda in our Gurudwaras. I am not ashamed to say I have an intense mistrust of militant Islam & dare I say Islam in general. If this makes me a bad Sikh in any way, then I suppose I am. But I would never make the leap from my grievances to the terror inflicted on innocent men, women and children in wars such as those conducted in Iraq and Afghanistan. One would hope our people have enough about them to understand when we're being manipulated by outside agencies, who (privately) have no more respect for us than those they fight in overseas wars.

So when and how did the tradition of 'kesari' (or orange) enter Sikhi?

What a disgrace.

Similar to Erich Von Daniken's Chariot's of The Gods?' Although his theories are somewhat derided by the scientific community, there is compelling evidence (in the form of paintings, etc) throughout history showing strange 'UFO-type' vehicles in times when there weren't even bicycles (or the wheel).

I have an unhealthy fascination with 'End of the World' predictions / theories. :D I find it amusing how the three semitic religions believe that the 'saviour' will be allied to their particular faith. I wonder which (if any) of them will be correct. On a more serious note, I've read over the years that the 'saviour' who will initially reveal himself to be 'The One' will not actually be the true prophet. This impostor will entrance the world, and although he will speak the language of peace, love and harmony, he will in-fact be completely the opposite. Millions will flock to his banner but he will not be who he says. I'd be interested if Sikhi has any mention of this so-called deception.

Unlimited respect to all Sikh soldiers and warriors who have fought for truth and justice throughout our history. Waheguru.