VanHelsingh

Thanks for the link. A lot of....interesting information to digest.

@ onlyfive - Sadly link doesn't lead anywhere.

Content aside, it seems like the site's design is stuck in 1998. I've got a headache from the visuals...:wacko: There's a 'jokes' section which seems wholly inappropriate...

The shape-shifting lizards residing in Buckingham Palace won't allow that ^^^^^ to happen...:lol: :lol:

Things like the above picture really do try my attempts at being tolerant towards this particular religion. I know I shouldn't allow myself to fall into the pit of hate, but this so-called "religion" is really pushing its luck. May God give us the strength and patience to deal with these unholy marauders who even to this day, are not ceasing their attacks on our holy, mighty faith.

I find the BBC AN's deviousness at always straddling the line of disrespect to Sikhi, but making sure they don't cross it very infuriating. Its as if they are trying to lump us in with sections of intolerant Islam so that a certain idol-worshipping religion comes out smelling of roses. It stinks.

Some of the rehatnama seems authentic (in accordance with other Sikhi scriptures I've read), other aspects of it leave me with doubts. Before anyone jumps in feet first, I should say that the sections I'm doubtful of AREN'T the practices I partake in my personal life, before I'm accused of sleeping naked from the waist down or cavorting with another man's wife (sorry not meant to be humourous but I wouldn't be surprised if some over-zealous soul on here began throwing around accusations). But as dalsingh mentioned on the first page, there's nothing wrong with studying it and discovering more about its origins. If this rehatnama is the real deal may God forgive me and may he heal my ignorance, and allow me the opportunity to learn.

The reason I ask about its authenticity is because I'm a bit confused as to why Guru Ji would mention stuff about sleeping without clothes on the lower half of one's body, how to cover yourself when having carnal relations, etc. I just thought that kind of talk was beneath our venerable Guru Ji.

@ Mehtab Singh - I actually think Sikhi is in danger more in India than it is overseas. There's a mindset in India (Punjab, if you will) which seems completely wrong to me. Whilst the Indian government is up to its tricks as usual, Sikhs in Punjab aren't helping themselves either (the alcohol, the drugs, sexual deviancy, etc). Sikhs who reside outside of India probably have more of a "love" for their religion than those back home (possibly a generalisation but some will know what I mean). Again I could be wrong but I firmly believe this from what I've seen myself.

From the little I know about Buddhism I think its centred around being passive and calm. Not that I think it will ever come to this, but if something like the above would ever threaten Sikhism to an extent where it was in danger of dying out, I think Sikhs would fight back before that would happen. I'm probably looking at the issue very simplistically (or even optimistically). I don't know - I'd like to think there are still Sikhs in the world today who know right from wrong, but the way things are going right now I'm not so sure.

Fascinating topic. So have we decided whether the rehat as described in the first post is authentic or not?

12th "Guru"? <_<

@ bhani - Hello! I'm reading between the lines here, but are you suggesting that the Amritdhari Sikhs aren't truly representative of what Sikhism is about? Sure, they maybe a bit forceful and inflexible in their perception of issues at times, but make no mistake about it - they are what all Sikhs should aspire to be. I'm guessing you think 'relaxed' Sikhs are the one's who are being "victimised"? I respectfully disagree, my friend. Yes I am concerned that some Sikhs should refrain from travelling the route of hardliners, and we end up with the same issues that certain aspects of Islam is now suffering. However, I think Amritdhari Sikhs are upholding what needs to be upheld in this particular situation. Yes their approach maybe blunt but I cannot fathom how such mistakes can be made in Gurudwaras. As to your point about "infiltrations" then I think you're exaggerating the point somewhat. Being clear and strict on such an important issue as beadbi does not mean the people enforcing the rules are fundamentalists. But there can be no mistakes or misunderstandings when it comes to serving meat (or other beadbi) in Gurudwaras. I wonder what goes through these people's minds when such issues arise in Gurudwaras. Its not as if its a newly-introduced rule that's just come into being and everyone is still getting use to its application. Its a given that meat should never, ever come near a Gurudwara, never mind being served within the premises itself! Its madness!

Artistic license I suppose? So when did the Khanda come into being as a symbol for the Sikhs? Are you saying it wasn't at the time of Guru Ji? Educate me, please! :lol:

KhalistaniGunMan just killed this thread. [/debate over] :D

From what I've read over the years, a burka isn't stated to be a necessity for Muslim women as its not mentioned in their holy book. Its more of a cultural tradition depending on personal choice. Some people say the burka has been imposed by males to "protect" women from the attention of men. Some Muslim women take offence to this as they think it means they are being dictated to by men in their religion. The turban on the other hand is required and is one of pre-requisites for a baptised Sikh (apologies if I'm incorrect). There is no getting around this at all. Some people might look at a Sikh with cut hair, etc., and argue that "He's a Sikh why isn't he wearing a turban?", to which I'm sure you can answer with a relevant reply. :D The other side of the argument is that some people say that religious garb or symbols of any sort must not be worn in a secular society. When it comes to schools its very difficult if you argue that "Sikhs should be exempt from the ban" as (mostly ignorant) people would say "Do you think you're more special than everyone else?". Its a difficult one.

:lol: - harsh but true! I want to know who conducted that survey! Mori, The Sun, The Times??!? Seriously, don't worry about it. Use your own judgement when it comes to talking to a potential life partner. Leave it to God and you'll get the wife you deserve (if you've also been a good boy yourself).

I completely understand KhalistaniGunMan's view, but I also appreciate the points made by thesoldier. I guess what I was trying to say is "Let's not burn ANYBODY'S holy scriptures". And yes I know that SGGS Ji is not a 'holy book' and it is SO much more that words cannot describe, but that's why I'm using the term 'scriptures' instead of 'book' to make a point in this instance. So in conclusion (:D) let's not advocate the burning of another religion's scriptures, no matter how much we disagree with that religion's sentiments.

@ RSingh - 2 + 2 = 5? My word some people on here do more harm than good.... To the outsider (who is neither Sikh or Muslim) they are both books. To you or I, SGGS Ji is NOT a book. Do you deny that a decent Muslim would be upset if the Koran is burnt? Whatever we think of it (personally I don't harbour any positivity towards it but understand its relevance for Muslims), it is holy to the people to whom it belongs to. By implying that "Koran is only a book so its okay to burn" is absolutely shameful. That is, in essence, what you're saying. Where is your tolerance?

Whatever you may think about Islam and its teachings, this kind of behaviour is absolutely terrible. I can imagine how hurt we would be if someone burnt the Sikh scriptures. The problem is we HAVE had our holy scriptures treated this way in the past.

Absolutely agree 100%. Abruptness or violence will not work in these instances. We must prove to be better than these people. The hypocritical nature of the world today means that those that do lift the sword to defend themselves are demonised, whilst the original aggressor can conveniently point and say "See! I told you they were bad people!". We can't fall into these traps again.

They're using us for their own needs, my friend. As for the passing of Gurmail Singh's wife, that's very sad news indeed.

@ Mehtab Singh - I was looking for a direct answer instead of (admittedly) lyrical, soul-stirring sentiments - true though they are. So why haven't other Sikhs attempted to continue the struggle? I appreciate the genocide that took place is a determining factor, but it seems the people in power in the Sikh panth are very reluctant to discuss the central issues that led to the problems in the first place. I could be wrong but it seems like its been swept under the carpet by the very people who represent us. Non-violent means could be best, especially in this climate whereby a minority who deems its government is victimising them (and does something about it with force) is immediately labelled as terrorists.

Look inside yourself instead of seeking confirmation from others. If you feel you can lead an honest Gursikh lifestyle (internally as well as externally) for the rest of your life, then I see no reason why you shouldn't. Its not a race with your cousin, you know?

I wonder what the reason is for there not being any similar figures to Sant Jarnail Singh Ji in our religion anymore? Are we spiritually bankrupt or has fear permeated us, or don't we care anymore? Or has the Indian Government done its job of gradually neutering our collective spirit so that nobody is left to fight? When I refer to 'fight' I'm not just referring to the physical act but also the internal, spiritual act as well.