harsharan000

Most of us when talking of the union of the soul with its Creator, we do from our own level of consciousness. That is why we have so many opinions. Because we are not all on the same consciouss level. It is a different thing we are standing on the same earth. But spiritual achivement is a totally different thing. We talk of our union with Him, as children play games....some are friendly, others are mischievous, some can not see each other.... All different experiences mentioned above, are different achievements, of different beings in different envoirements, different backgrounds....some taking an escalator reach at the top of a high building, others with a helicopter go a little bit higher, others with a plane even trespass the clouds, some fewer with rockets reach the moon or maybe other farther planets even.... But the thing is, reaching Him, is not at all in one´s hands. No matter, even if one does His bandagee all the 24 hours, even for millions of years.... Our Bani very clearly says, only those wadbhagee jeevas reach Him, whom He chooses. So naturally if He chooses one to make him one with Himself, who can oppose resistance? Who can go against His will? It is not a question even of one wanting to love Him. It is all His "daat". Our union with Him, is only possible if He wants,and also not by any other method, but only if we board on the "Jahaaz of Nam". Different paths will take one to different destinations. But it is only by boarding the Jahaaz of Nam, that one will reach Him. This is the difference between Gurmat and other paths. But inspite of having the Bani in our favour, how many of us do we pay attention to what it says? How many of us do we follow the bhakti instructions in it? We are so busy with other outer aspects made and added by us, that we forget to even look at the Bani, to see that where our Guru Sahibans want draw our attention, is within us, not outside. Because it is only Nam, which takes you there.

Dear Balbir Singh Jee, Though the words play a very important role, but it is the meaning behind them, which counts more. As I said, when I chose the title of this thread, it was not because, I saw any Vaak as such, neither it was my intention. My intention was just to bring forth the Mahima, the greatness, of the Holy Trinity of the topic of this thread, which constitutes the only beauty and reality. As apart from them, all is "koorr". Just as, the liquid water, the vapour, and the ice, are different in aspects, but are the same in essence, so is Wahiguru, His Nam and His Gurmukhs..... So if the Vaak, the title, is of Sadhoo sang kee .... is mentioning a Sadhoo, a Gurmukh; is the Bani not talking of the same level of consciousness? Is that Sadhoo a ordinary human being of whom the Bani talks about? No. The Bani is talking about that Sadhoo, that Gurmukh, who is one with Wahiguru Akal Purukh. It is we people who use words or languages to express ourselves. Actually Wahiguru is a consciouss power, a highest level of consciousness.... Wahiguru by Himself is not a word in any language, but a reality beyond all perceptions... The Bani says: Nanak, Sadh, Prabh, bhed na bhaee. From Nam or Shabad, Wahiguru came out, and from Wahiguru, the Guru Sahibans, His Bhagats, His Sant Jan, came .... so in the end, is it not the same thing? Because again by His Nam or Shabad, they return back to Him, and merge in Him becoming Him, becoming that Nam or Shabad. They may appear to us, different, from different points of views, in different dimensions, but the power within them, is the same, which is of Nam or Shabad ...so in the end it is the same thing. Hope I have not complicated things, but believe me, such is the wonderous Bani of our Guru Sahibans. Waheguru Jee.

Dear Balbir Singh Jee, Excuse me, I do not exactly follow what you want ask with a Vaak from the Granth Sahib Jee. But that much I can tell you, because this very das, has started this thread, so I can exactly tell what was in my mind when I started it. For me mahima here means, to sing the Glory of the Lord Wahiguru Himself and His other two aspects, which are as True as Himself. And namely they are: His Nam and His Gurmukhs, His Sant Jan, His Bhagats, Guru Sahibans .... And who better than His bhagats or Guru Sahibans can sing His Glory or mahima ..... Of course, nobody, and surely not we moorakhs... That is why if we go through the Bani of any Ang, it is only His glory that I do see.... i do not know what others see, or want to see; or even, are able to see. The Bani is thus, a practical method to cleanse our dirt, which is the cause of our sorrow and pain, and at the same time to unfold the divinity of Wahiguru within ourselves, through His bhakti. Dear Balbir, I hope I have answered your question. Yet, if there is need of any more clarity, let me know, I will try my best. Waheguru Jee P.S: There is a beautiful Shabad in Raag Bilavaal of Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj, which mentions the Mahima of Wahiguru, His Nam and His Gurmukhs, as per the title of this thread. Here it goes: mahimaa saaDhoo sang kee sunhu mayray meetaa (809-17) bilaaval mehlaa 5. Bilaaval, Fifth Mehl: pingul parbat paar paray khal chatur bakeetaa. The cripple crosses over the mountain, the fool becomes a wise man, anDhulay taribhavan soojhi-aa gur bhayt puneetaa. and the blind man sees the three worlds, by meeting with the True Guru and being purified. mahimaa saaDhoo sang kee, sunhu mayray meetaa. This is the Glory of the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; listen, O my friends. mail kho-ee kot agh haray nirmal bha-ay cheetaa. Filth is washed away, millions of sins are dispelled, and the consciousness becomes immaculate and pure. aisee bhagat govind kee keet hastee jeetaa. Such is devotional worship of the Lord of the Universe, that the ant can overpower the elephant. jo jo keeno aapno tis abhai daan deetaa. Whoever the Lord makes His own, is blessed with the gift of fearlessness. singh bilaa-ee ho-ay ga-i-o tarin mayr dikheetaa. The lion becomes a cat, and the mountain looks like a blade of grass. saram kartay dam aadh ka-o tay ganee Dhaneetaa. Those who worked for half a shell, will be judged very wealthy. kavan vadaa-ee kahi saka-o bay-ant guneetaa. What glorious greatness of Yours can I describe, O Lord of infinite excellences? kar kirpaa mohi naam dayh naanak dar sareetaa. Please bless me with Your Mercy, and grant me Your Name; O Nanak, I am lost without the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.

Wow, hats off to what Scali has said. It is totally true, that it is only the True Master, who makes the most masters. And so to which that particular Master does the Bani refers? The Bani tells us : Shabad Guru, Surat dhun chela. That Anahad Shabad, is our true Guru or Master, of which the naked pure soul, (means not the physical body, neither the astral, nor the causa, which are all perishable) is the disciple or sikh. The teachings of the Saints also gives us another beautiful example. We all know what is "paraas". Which we call in english, the philosopher´s stone. It is beleived, that if this paaras touches anything, it converts it into gold, but never into a paaras, like itself. On the contrary, if one comes into the touch of such a paaras like Shabad, it will first make make/convert you like Itself in essence, and then it will attract you towards itself and make you one with Itself, just as same as Shabad. This all is very quickly said and written, but if one stops even for a minute or two to think about it, one just gets wonder struck ... oh my God.... I had heard you were great, but such greatness, such Mercy and Grace You cand shower on me, that to a stone like me, You can make me like Yousrself..... it is beyond any imagination and description ... This is Gurmat, and it´s only purpose. Dhan Dhan Waheguru...wah wah Waheguru.

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Dear Seva Simran, there can be a few satisactory answers to this your question above, but I am going to answer you with a quotation from the sacred Bani of our Guru Sahibans. The quotation is from Raag Bilavaal, by Sachay Badshah Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj: sooraj kiran milay jal kaa jal hoo-aa raam. The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water. jotee jot ralee sampooran thee-aa raam. One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect. Though the words are very clear, He says: Just as the rays of Sunlight merge in the Sun, and just as the water of a river merges in the sea, So does my (soul) Light, merges in that Supreme Soul(Wahiguru Akal Purukh), and becomes totally perfect like Him. So, you see, by reaching His abode, one becomes one with Him, without any distinction. The Bani says: Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar. Means, in that region of Truth, only the formless Lord exists. It has to be so, because, if by reaching there you become Him....then who else is there apart from Him? Of course no body. There is no multiplicity. Only Him. This is the path of Gurmat. And only He, is the objective of Gurmat. As per other religions/paths...when one reaches Swarg, Baikunth, or the level of that deity worshipped, one retains that individual identity, because that deity is not the ultimate truth, or supreme Truth, in which that individual soul can merge in....So that devotee and that deity are two individual identities there, both of them, though in a subtler and finer plane, are very much in Braham, causal region, which is under the jurisdiction of mind still. I am sorry if you feel hurt, I know how is that feeling, because, one has seen and believed in some things, which one has seen since one has been born. I do not want even to make you feel low, by trying to show you, that your beleif is lesser than ours.... I am my self against all these stupidities, but as you have asked a question, it was my obligation to answer you to the best of my ability. You see, once one realizes what the Truth is, it does not matter, what is your background. Gurmat does not say to change your religion, nor your rituals, nothing of that sort. It is our mind which has to change, from being a manmukh to a gurmukh, because it is due to the mind, that we are separated from Him. That mind is our only enemy to fight with, and if we defeat it, with the teachings of Gurmat, we are then His disciples, His sikhs, His devotees....because Gurmat is universal in time and place, not for a particular caste, country, creed or community. The purpose of Gurmat, is to reunite the soul with the Lord, the atma with the Paramatma...that´s it. It is our mind which has to be converted or disciplined, not the body. So one outwardly can be the same to the eyes of the world, but it is within oneself, where one notices the changes for good taking place gradually. And that is nothing, but His Grace. The Guru Sahibans do not come to create any new religion, their religion is of the truth, and that Truth is the same for all souls. Just as all the rays, merge in the Sun, so can all souls merge in Him, no matter if they are located in the north, south, east or west. They have emerged from Him, and have to merge in Him, one day Brother, do not take the Bani as mere literature, but as a mine of infinite unvaluable gems and pearls. Each word in it, is worth more than billions of dollars .... Hardly in the world is there any parallel to the beauty and wisdom contained in the Bani. You may just start with JapJi Sahib, the Anand Sahib or Sukhmani Sahib . There are a lots of webs where you can go through them, and then too if you need any aid, you may ask any of us here, we shall gladly help you to sort out your doubts. If you believe in Krishna, go on, do not leave him, but by understanding and following Gurmat throughly, you yourself will come to know the undefinable beauty and reality beyond any imagination. May God bless you.

The thing is, even the need for a Guru as you say, or ie Gurbani and holy men....is possible also by good karma. And good karmas, before anybody gets a twisted meaning, good karmas here means, good destiny. And that destiny has to be good, as it is marked by Wahiguru Akal Purukh Himself. The Bani says: Karmee aavai kaprhaa, nadree mokh du-aar. Means, whatever success or failures, your wealth, health, pain, etc.... or whatever you have, it is due to your own karmas, but muktee, or libertaion from the wheel of eigthy four, is due to the drishtee of Wahiguru, who arranges your karma in such a way, that, you get the most benefit from the Bani personally, and that is, one´s freedom from maya, karmas, maan(mind), and Kal. Waheguru Jee

Dear brother Simran345, first of all please accept my sincere sympathy, though I am quite consciouss that it is not of much avail. But you may lawys refer to me as a friend, in whatever way I can, I will surley assist you. First of all, there is no such calculator to show us how much karmas are remained to be cleared off. Secondly as the Bani says: aapeh beejeh, aapeh khae. Pleasure and pain are due to our very own karmas. Nobody else is to be blamed for it. Other thing is, we may not be aware of them. But Dharam Rai, never makes mistakes in administrating justice. We have to undergo karmas under any circumstances, that nobody can change, not even Wahiguru. He is a perfect being, He can not go against His own rules, like we corrupted humans. Before our birth, our destiny is written, it is only then we are born, we do not come here to gamble and see how the things run. There are 3 types of karmas: Kriyaman: the karmas we perform in this very life. Pralabdh: the karmas which we bring along as destiny, in this very particular life. Sinchit: The store karmas, which we have been collecting since we stepped in the creation, are in the causal region. All the karmas in which we incurr, are gathered in the storehouse of karmas, in the causal region as said before. When we take a birth, some tiny fraction of them, from that store house are taken to build our destiny. But the creation is made in such a way by Kal, that no soul can escape just like that, on the contrary, it get even deeper in the web of karmas, let us say, if we pay for 100 karmas for example, 10.000 more are added in our account with our kriyaman karmas of this life... so you see, how can ever the payment of our karmas come to an end? When a few are paid, then many many more are added... Naturally never. No matter how many pilgrimages one may do, or fastings, or japs, tapas, poojas, paaths, sacrifices ..... nothing, all these are more and more karmas to our already heavy burden. So it is up to us, to behave in a civilized and in a human manner, with the aid of the Bani, so to at least, not add bad karmas in our stock. Secondly, the pralabdh karmas can not be modified, because they are the pillars of our this very life, once our alloted karmas finish for this life, we shall not stay even for a second here, and move forward to that place where our new lot of pralabdh karmas, our unsatisfied desires take us. But as the Bani truly and beautifully says, in Jap Ji Sahib: suniye, paap dookh ka naas . Means listen, and all your sins(karmas), pains and sorrows, shall come to an end. But then we may ask, it is o.k to listen, but to listen, what? The Bani points to the Anhad Shabad which is reverberating within us non stop, all the 24 hours. By listening to this Shabad, to this Amritee Bani, all our sinchit karmas are wiped away. This is the only way to become clean, pure, paviter, and get freed once for ever from this sorrowful creation. And this method is not man made, but by Akal Purukh Himself. Among His many names, He is also known as Dayal Purukh. That is because He is a infinite ocean of mercy, of Daya Meher. So if one attaches, one´s attentio or dhyan to the holy practice, of first Nam Simran, because with it, one collects one´s surtee to the inner spiritual realms, then by entering into them, one hears the Anhad Bani, the Anhad Shabad, the Nam. That is why in Anand Sahib, the Bani says: Nam jinke man vaseeya, vajeh Shabad ganere. Menas once you gather your attention or focus firmly with Nam Simran, one will be able to catch hold of that Shabad or Nam. And this very Nam works as a vehicle, to make one reach Sach Khand, there is no other way. Nanak, Nam jahaz hae The Bani says: Bin Naavai, nahee kou thau. Without Nam, there is no place to lean on, one simply drowns in the Mahabhavsagar. So going back to your question, pralabdh karmas can not be modified, but, by His Simran, His dhyan, your consciousness will arise to an extent, that karmas will not affect you. Pain is the same for all beings, whensoever it affects me, I behave the same like you, I shout and cry...this is all we humans can do. We can not demand anything from our Sachay Patshah Akal Purukh, we are beggars at His door: hum bheekak, bheekhareee Tere. We can only spread our jholees, so that He may shower us with His bakshish of Nam. And spearding jholees, is not a material jholee, but our soul in reverence, and the surrender of mind´s attitude, with our devotion, our bhakti in the form which He most likes and accepts: Nam Simran.

It is a pity, just because of someone´s narrow mind, this beautiful thread is going out of proportion.... Let us see, when we have to think, or ponder, or reflect on something, or even to remember something, do we take our hands to our feet, our knees, stomach, or shoulders? Or do we take it to our head? The thinking process, is done in the head, in the mind, isn´t it? So , what is Simran or dhyan? Simran or dhyan, is a mental process, where our attention of the world in the form of thoughts pouring out from the mind are stopped gradualy, and that very attention is diverted to the finer realms, where the Shabad, the Anhad Shabad, is being struck non stop. So as all this process, engages mental activity, and mental activity is done in the head, not feet, nor hands , nor any other area of our body, that is why, it is said, or explained that, it is the point between the eyes where we concentrate, in order to catch that Shabad within us, not that physically there is any point in our head .... So let us just leave complicating things, because it leads nowhere, but just towards confrontations .... So if someone does not know how to behave himself, break your computer and do not ever log into this Sikh sangat website, and spread disharmony, or negative vibrations among the Sangat members...it is a benti. Waheguru Jee

Barinder Singh Jee I do not understand, why one should like to complicate things? What is the need for it? In almost each and every post done by us members, you have to put your fingers in like a naughty boy, who can not control his instincts. Come on, be mature. We are on a forum, to share our points of views, listen, and learn ....not to throw your tantrums. It is quite disgusting. We are all having a nice and cordial relation on this website, and since you have come, if one looks at your posts, they are just to counter the rest of the members posts. That is HANKAR. Your own deluded ideas, you are encaged in your own fantasy world, from which you do not want to come out to the reality. Just by writing the Bani, though you may use or recite the whole of the bani, but that then, does no effect on you, because you do not put even a tiny fraction of it into practice, otherwise you would have surely behaved in a diffrent way. Apart from your HANKAR, your speech, your attitude, denote frustration. Cool down man, relax a little bit. He has not told you to take care of His creation, He is capable of handling it much better than any of us, including you. So do not take so much burden on your shoulders. Be a little humble while dealing with your fellow people. You are among social beings, so behave yourself, like a normal person. You just know how to accuse and put down others, with your very limited mind. You want to impose yourself, above others. You want to have the last word always. But having last word, does not mean you are right. So be careful while dealing with the sangat here, though members we may be, but we are His Sangat, and for the Sangat, one must have the attitude of seva, of humility, not to throw your own closed ideas, though you refer to the topics with the Bani, but your words used in your posts by themselves are totally empty. Mark it, not the Bani, but your ideas are empty. If only you had put into practice, even 1% of what you say from the Bani, beleive it, this your present state today would be radically diffrent . As brother Sat said, and I agree with him, it is true you have a firm faith in Guru Maharaj and in the Bani, which is very good indeed, but do not be so rigid, that you become an imbalanced unhuman dictator with your fellow beings, and loose all your virtues on the other side. Come on, grow a little bit in maturity, do not be so childish with this your narrow minded behaviour. For example, you are saying vichola in punjabi is not mediator, but middle man.... so what is the difference? Whether you prefer to say middle man, or some say mediator ....tell me what is the difference? Is it not the same thing? Because the middle man as per you, or the mediator as others say, aren´t they both in this case, between the bride soul and the husband Wahiguru, to deliver the soul bride unto Him? Then, what is the difference? You see, being so narrow minded, make you complicate simple things, and then you yourself are lost in your own theoretical world..... Forget this, in the same line, the Bani says: Ghol Ghumaaee This Mithr .... and so, tis mitter means, that friend, which acts as a mediator or middle man as you say... By the way, middle man as you prefer to say, and mediator as translated and seen in the authorized press by proffessionals, refer to a particular man, not any man, not any middle man, because middle man friend, or mediator friend, both refer to that particular being, that particular power of Shabad in them, which delivers the bride soul, to her Husband Lord. By the way, no mediator friend, no middle man friend, has the guts to do anything by himself, if he has not got direct Hukum from Wahiguru Akal Purukh, to bring that particular soul back to Him. So you see, everything starts from Him, and ends with Him. He is the engine motor behind, each and everything and everybody. Without His Hukum, not even a leaf of a tree dares to move by itself. In spite of all your misbehaviour, I wish you good luck. Try to think a little bit, you are being advised for your own betterment. Just relax, do not be so tensed, beacuse tension does not give clarity of mind, rather just a state of confusion. May Wahiguru bless you with maturity, beacuse love and faith for Him, you already have.

A fantastic and a very mature reply . :khalsa2:

Dear SevaSimran333, Krishna, can never ever be the supreme god to be worshipped. And I say this with a very heavy heart, because I can very well imagine, how much shocking could this be for you, and I am really sorry for it. I am going to try to talk to you very frankly and directly, just as I had wished, someone to explain me things, if I were in your place. You see, it is not at all ine one´s hand to believe or know Him(Satpurukh) even. In the Bani is very well stated, that He himself makes some wander, and to others, He makes them have faith in Him, and saves them according to a particular technique practiced by them alone. And this is done, as brother N30S1NGH says above, because He wants His creation to go on. If it was like that easy, that whenever one listens to the True teachings, one would accept them, but the reality is quite different. That is why, there are so many religions, so may paths, so many philosophers, so many avatars, so many prophets....this is all for the purpose of deluding souls, so that they may never ever think even by mistake of Wahiguru Akal Purukh. Then bear in mind also, that not all of us in sikhee, are walking straight, most of our brothers and sisters, have gone astray, as the main base teachings of our Guru Sahibans, are almost lost, and are thus entangled in outer forms of worships, of rules and regulations, like the rest of mazabs and dharams of the world, which is totally the contrary in sikhee. The Bani clearly says: Dharam mazab ka jiskau abheemaan, seh andhaa moorakgh agyan . Love for the teachings, is demonstrated by following them, and getting transformed from a manmukh to a gurmukh, from a ordinary person to a sikh, to a disciple of the Guru. This is the purpose of sikhee, of merging our souls in Wahiguru, everything else is paraphernalia I am quite aware, that many of my brothers on reading this what I am saying, may get angry at me, and think that I am crazy. But frankly speaking, I do not care for the world, for me the teachings of our Guru Sahibans are my very life. For if, ever I have to account anything, it is with Him alone. Though I feel very sad and disheartened, when I see that, as I do often repeat, we have the best teachers, Our Guru Sahibans, who have left the best path for us, Gurmat, and yet we are running here and there, and have adulterated their Bani, with a political touch, with affairs of country, land and patriotism ....and so saddening, that we go to the extent of giving up lives or even taking lives, that also in the name of god, and we are then considered as heros.... all these things have distracted our attention and focus from Wahiguru, though each and everyone will say, are you mad? I have deep love and reverence for Wahiguru. And all this is due to the manmukhs, who have driven us far away from sikhee, and made Gurmat as any other religion of the world, with its rules, regulations, do´s and donts. When the fact is, to love and merge in Wahiguru, only purity of mind and heart is needed. Because this devotion is done by the soul, not by the body. How does it affect, what is your color of skin, wheteher you are from east or west, north or south, if you are short, tall, rich or poor, or even how you dress..... you see all these things or aspects are related to the body, and the body is not our true self, thus the body is perishable...and then, so many wars, so many fights we do, so many attrocities and sins we commit, for just mistaking that we are this very body, and that all that we do and get, shall carry it with us to the next world The thing is, we proffess love and devotion for Wahiguru, but, we do not do at all, what the Bani says. We just bow to Guru Maharaj, Sree Guru Granth Sahib, but what it says, almost nobody cares. We think by bowing and respecting to the Guru, everything is achieved. Which is far from reality. Real achievements are got, as per practically putting into action, what it says, and paying attention to the message it gives us ... The Bani says, Wahiguru is within you, and this your body is His living temple. Har mandir eheu sareer hae, gyan ratan pargat hoe. But yet we go here and there for pilgrimages... and do not even sit to do His dhyan, or His bandagee, then too some argue, and say: why to sit like cranes, better get up and do some paath, or recite the Bani so many times .... you see this is maanmat, and everybody is copying and doing what he /she/we see others doing, it is like blind guiding blind.... when the fact is, He is within us for us only, all the 24 hours, then too we are misled Instead to take the Bani as our guide, then there will be no mistakes ...but we like to see and read what we like, sometimes I have a feeling that the leaders, or the learned ones, do not want to let us know the truths of the Bani, they do not want us the ordinary people to use our brains in a clear manner, to the extent, that when we see something does not go according to what we think sikhee to be, we will not spare that person. Sikhee, Gurmat, is a path of love and devotion to the only one Wahiguru Akal Purukh alone. It emphasizes only on the devotion to Wahiguru through His chintan, through His Simran. That is why our Guru sahibans said: Sarab dharam meh srest dharam, Har ko nam jap nirmal karam. The purpose of any True Guru, is to purify the soul from the dirt accumulated on it by the mind and karmas, and make it thus worthy to merge in Wahiguru, through His simran. What does the word religion menas? This word comes from the latin word religare, which means, that which enables the union with the origin. And so what is that, that enables our union with Him? Is it our rules, is it our regulations, is it doing what we like? No, the answer according to the Bani, is our Nam Simran. But for this practice we do not care, we take this like concepts, like theory...because we are so much under the belief that we are the body, that by sitting at one place and doing His Simran seva, we feel we are not doing anything with the body, so this could not be something valid. So you see, even in our sikh community, many are misled, not that their goal is not perfect or correct , but the ways, and practices they do, divert them away from their goal, which is Wahiguru. We do and are ready for everything, but Nam Simran....no, no, no. We need many more things to cling on, so to feel, that we are sikhs ...because that is what we have been seeing done for the past several hundreds years. One thing, which differntiates our sikhee from other dharams, is that, we believe in only one supreme reality, namely Wahiguru. But the hindus believe in many gods, devis, devtas,which have wives, children, who have weapons and use them ...like the trident, chakra, gadda, sitting on tigers, serpent around the neck, long hair, moon and river on the head... masculine, feminie, animals, devils... a huge variety of beings, dependending on their levels of consciousness.... Then also they have trinity. Ask the worshippers of Shiva, and they will say Shiva is bigger, so you see, among the hindus, even they do not agree whom to worship...but not only that, but they also are taught to worship the lesser gods, or the planets devtas, the sea god, and an endless list of these gods, and poojas, paaths, lamps, incense, flowers, fastings, pilgrimages, etc, etc and etc. Krishna is an avatar of lord Vishnu, Krishna is not and individual identity by itself .... not even the only god, it is part of a trinity On the contrary if any sikh is asked how many gods do you have? or believe in? All will surely say, only one Wahiguru Akal Purukh. in the very beginning, the Bani says: Ik Oankar, means, He is one without any second or multiplicity. Satnam, He is the everlasting Truth. Karta Purakh, He is the only doer without the help of anyone. Nirbahv Niravair, He is without any fear and enemity towards anyone. Akal Moorat, He is beyond time and death. Ajoonee, He is not born in any form . Saebhang, He is self sufficient. Gurparsad, He is realized by the grace of the teachings of Gurmat. This Wahiguru is the highest being, He is above all gods and devis or devtas. He never, allows Himself to be worshipped in any inert or lifless objects or things, like those made of stone, paper, plastic or metal... but these gods and entities, they promote moortee poojas and willingly accept it as devotion .... While,His devotion is the highest among all practices. His devotion brings purity of mind and heart. And His devotion is done for the sake of Himself alone. Unlike in other dharmas, when one does the devotion of any of their gods, even if you have their darshan, and if you are an ill minded soul, your impurities are not washed away. You have the example of Ravan, he was the greatest devotee of Shiva, but then too, after so much tapasya, were his kam, krodh, lobh, moh or ahankar diminished or removed? Of course not. Not only that, but he commited many more sins. Devotion to these gods, can not remove your impurities, you move according to the purity of your mind.... These avatars come to establish righteousness in the world, they perform miracles, and display their powers, they punish the sinners and reward the benevolents, their purpose is to get the souls stucked in the creation, and for this fact, even they are not aware of, as they are fulfilling a task assigned to them. The followers and devotees of these gods, when they devote themselves to these deities, they may have their darshan and stay in Baikunth or Swarg for a limited period of time...but they never become one with that trinity ...each and every soul keeps intact it´s individual identity, until their stock of good karmas and bhakti is over, they return back into the creation, in the cycle of eighty four. Whenever these gods appear to their devotees, they always say: I am satisfied with your devotion, ask whatever boon you want.... It is a way of keeping that soul confined into the web of the creation On the contrary, in Gurmat, even stones are carried across the mahabhavsagar. Nanak, Nam jahaz hae. With the devotion of Wahiguru, all of your impurities are washed away, your mind turns down, and has no more desires...then the only desire that the soul has, is to become one with Him, that´s it. If even one is a sinner, by His grace, you are turned into a Saint, into a Gurmukh, and become as pure as He is, to the extent, that you merge in Him, and become one with Him, without any distinction. You are not a distinct identity anymore. And the Bani says: Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar. It does not say, if you reach there, you will continue to be you. No. One looses it´s identity of individuality long before, in the realms of mind and maya, and thus when it reaches there in Sach Khand, it becomes one with Nirankar Akal Purukh. This is in essence sikhee. Such is the greatness of Gurmat, and Wahiguru. *P.S: please read the Bani with care and attention, you will be amazed and lost into a state of wonder, with the beauty and love and highest gyan, that it contains. If you have any questions, you may ask any of the brothers on this website or any other sikh website, all of them are well prepared to gladly let you know, the inmensity of Wahiguru Akal Purukh and His Bani. *Please forgive me, if you or anybody is hurt by this my post. My intentions are only to bring the awareness, of the praises of Wahiguru and His Bani, as this is only medicine for our souls, which are in a constant state of sorrow and pain.

Brother, the moorakhs, try to imitate the learned ones. One who has no knowledge, or is a gawaar, does not know to read or write, even if he takes a book, and try to show he is reading...what can he get from it? Nothing. He is fooloing himself, and then too, as he can not understand what is written in it due to his moorakhta, he says, what use is sitting to read a book....foolishness has no limits. We must bear in mind, that one when sits in meditation to do His bandagee, and with closed eyes we see only darkness, that is nothing but the darkness of our very own karmas....and then too most of us, we are so stupid, that we do not know, that we have a mind also, which starts runnig outside, as it is used to do always, as it has no interest letting the soul know or do anything to return to its origin: Wahiguru Akal Purukh. The result is, that those who know what they are doing, they keep on knocking at His door for His grace(that is sitting in meditation with faith and love for Him) because if ever anything is to be achieved, it is from that door..... While the moorakhs, the maanmukhs, give up easily and say why to sit like cranes..... stupid people! On the contrary, our Guru Sahibans emphasize to do this jugtee only, for realizing Him. Following are the words of Sachay Patshah Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj: Sathigur Kaa Sach Sabadh KamaavahuMeditate on the true Shabad, from Satguru Thhir Ghar Baithae, Prabh Apanaa Paavahu Remain steady and stable within the home of your own self, and find God Raag Asa, Guru Arjan Dev Maharaj.

The forehead area, is the spiritual door to enter the spiritual realms. That is why it is known as teesra til or third eye, single eye, or daswan dwar, the "tenth door". The path leading towards Him starts from this point. This is in a way, a spiritual door, towards spiritual dimensions, towards higher consciousnesses. Once one enters there, one leaves temporary the physicall plane, which is perceived by us through our 5 karma indriyas and the 5 gyan indriyas. But there in the spiritual realms, in the first two regions or planes, which are in the following order: astral plane, and then the causal plane, these 2 planes are travelled by the mind and the soul together, but after that plane, with the help Shabad Guru alone, one crosses that last barrier of mind and Kal, and reach Paarbraham...and under proper guidance of that Shabad Guru, one reaches Sach Khand, not otherwise .... So you see, in order to achieve all this mentioned above, one has to start walking first to reach that door, and then enter through it bravely, this is the real job of a sikh, to become one with Wahiguru Akal Purukh

ਜਾਂ ਪਿਰੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤਾਂ ਧਨ ਬਾਹਰਿ Jaan Pir Andhar Thaan Dhhan Baahar जां पिरु अंदरि तां धन बाहरि When the Husband Lord is within the heart, then Maya, the bride, goes outside. ਜਾਂ ਪਿਰੁ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਤਾਂ ਧਨ ਮਾਹਰਿ Jaan Pir Baahar Thaan Dhhan Maahar जां पिरु बाहरि तां धन माहरि When one's Husband Lord is outside of oneself, then Maya, the bride, is supreme. Dhan Dhan Guru Sachay Patshah Arjun Dev Maharaj, in His Bani Raag Raamkali, is telling us that, when He is within us and we have actually realized Him through His grace, not by mere words, the main sign as a proof of this is, that, then, maya is out, maya is darkness, it can not stay there where He is, there where His Light, His Nam pervades. So if He is within us, naturally He sees His essence soul in all, He can not make enemity(means to harm, or wish ill) with anyone, though there is nobody like Him. Different thing is, we/us, do not see Him, neither within us, nor in others. That is why so much jealousy, so much hatred, so much kaam, so much koorr, so much krodh, so much ahankar, so much lobh .... in one word, agyanta. So then naturally the question arises, how to uncover him within us? The answer is through the Bani, which tell us: ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਜਾਹਰਿ Sathigur Sang Dhikhaaeiaa Jaahar सतिगुरि संगि दिखाइआ जाहरि The True Guru, shows us that the Lord is with us. This means, this is the only approved and efficient method, all else is useless, is maanmat, is moorakhta, is agyanta ... Such is the unique mahanta of Gurmat.

There is a beautiful tuk in the Bani, which summarizes the topic of this thread, and throws light on it, of course who better than our Guru Sahibans to guide us with their Light. Among them, was one such a noble and a pure One, He is known as Sachay Pathsha Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj. And following are His sweet words in Raag Raamkali: ਘੋਲਿ ਘੁਮਾਈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਵਿਚੋਲੇ ਜੈ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੰਤੁ ਪਛਾਣਾ Ghol Ghumaaee This Mithr Vicholae, Jai Mil, Kanth Pashhaanaa घोलि घुमाई तिसु मित्र विचोले जै मिलि कंतु पछाणा I am a dedicated, devoted sacrifice to that friend, that mediator, who leads me to recognize my Husband Lord. * Well, there is nothing more to be commented, as these words are so clear and powerful by themselves, that when, one reads or listens them, one just remains dumb and speechless....so much beauty in them.... so much depth in them, so much love ..... and to the top of all, in a simple language ...

It is true that God is in everyone and everywhere, that is why He is known as Omnipresent, or Sarva-vyapak. Ninth Patshahee also says: Ghat ghat meh Harju baseh. But the fact is, it is He who is with us, and it is we, who are not with Him, that is why we are so mean, so rude, so moorakh, so agyanis....in one word, so imperfect. Becuase if we were with Him, surely we had imbibed His divine qualities, His divine virtues, His knowledge, His maha gyan. It is not that just by saying, I believe in Him, or I love Him, that one achieves Him, or gets imbued with His qualities; that also, no matter how much of poojas, paaths, jap, tap, pilgrimages, that one may do . To be filled with Him, and to feel His presence, His nearness, we can choose to do nothing, driven away by our ahankar of caste and creed, thus by our agyanta. Or do something, like all that, the bhagats, Gurmukhs, Har janas did and do, because there is no other way. And that is the path of action, of self surrender, of love, of devotion, of faith, to Him alone. And that is only possible, by the tecnique mentioned in the Bani, which is simple in words, and in its execution; which anybody can perform, from a child of 5 years up to an elderly person, there is no such requirement to be a member of any particular dharam, as the teachings of our Guru Sahibans are universal, for all the mankind, not for any paricular country, caste or creed... nor any endorsements are needed, from any group of individuals... And that technique is : Jin Har japeeya, se Har hoeeya. By this technique, when we become one with Him, we shall see Him in all, until than, mere words...mere theories... Christ, and all the mahapurukhs, Bhagats, Sant janas, Guru Sahibans, were one with Him through love and devotion, from their Bani, we can see that though they were one with Him, but out of real humility, they never said I am Him, but always: dasn das, or like Baba Nanak said , while speaking about Himself: lalaa golaa From their union with Him, we can see their tolerance, their forebearnce, their attitude of forgiveness, their love for the mankind, in spite of being harmed and abused by the stupid human beings, suffering atrocities, from the shameless humans. Christ was nailed on the cross, or even defore reaching there, He was spitted and slapped, people all around Him, were shouting and laughing at Him,as if He were a mad man .... Or our Fifth patshaee, He was made to sit on the hot plates, boiling water and hot sand were poured on him... There are more more cases, but in the two cases above, they said Father forgive them, for they do not know , what they are doing; or Tera bhana meetha laageh. So it is quite clear, to differntiate when one is communion with Him like Gurmukhs; or like the most of us, we speak big things, we have not even a miligram of Him.....then too, our eyes and brain turn out red in anger, we become thirsty to beat and kill those who do not think like us ....if not that much, we will surely abuse them verbally and make them feel low .... while we are fattened with our ahankar, our ego, our agyanta, and feel, that we are something, when the fact is , we are nothing.....thinking only that I know, and all others are stupid , are fake....when the fact is, we maybe worse than others ... Then, the more we talk big and feel big, the more we show how far we are from His reality. When one starts walking towards Him, one speaks less big words, and expresses more humility and forgiveness, then there even comes a time, one does not bother at all of the world, does not bother on debates, neither he tries to proof of he being right, if accused with any nonsense, as one remains with each passing day, more and more absorbed, in Him. Jin prem kiyo, tinhee Prabh paayo. He who loveth Him through devotion, merges in Him

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ Anmrith Vaelaa Sach Naao Vaddiaaee Veechaar अम्रित वेला सचु नाउ वडिआई वीचारु In the Amrit Vaylaa, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. JapJi Sahib, Guru Nanak Dev Dear jasdeepsingh2k125, If I am not wrong, I think you are refering to the above lines from Japji Sahib. First of all relax, and do not get annoyed, nor do fear, that I am saying anything against Gurmat, because I do try to follow it, and I think you do the same. Because if one is with an upset mind, then no matter how so clear the things maybe, one will simply not grasp them. Let us see, what are the words Amrit Vela. Amrit we all know what it is, Saints and Guru Sahibans in their Bani, refer to the Shabad Dhun reveberating within us at all times. So when the soul listens it, it gets such a taste from it, that it gets in the state of bliss, and this Shabad Dhun, is what washes away all our sins, thus frees us from the mayavee perishable creation, in one word cleanses us, makes us pure, paviter, to be worthy to merge in the formless Wahiguru Akal Purukh, and become one with it. Baba Nanak, refering to this Amrit, or Amrit Bani also, says in the very Japji Sahib: Suniye, paap dukh ka naas. Means listen to this divine melody, Akashi Bani, and all your sins and sorrows shall thus be erased, or come to an end forever. So listening to this Shabad Dhun, Bani, is as same as drinking that Amrit Bani, and this is done by the soul. As soul has no body nor mouth, it can drink it literally; but the soul has two faculties, the faculty to see and the faculty to hear, and both these faculties are used by the soul , to see the divine Jot of Wahiguru, and listen to that Shabad Dhun, which is also the form of Wahiguru. These faculties of the soul, of seeing without eyes and hearing without ears, is what Second Patsahee refers to, when He says: Akhaa bajoh vekhna, bin kana sun na, paira bajoh chalna, bin hatha karna .... We have just seen above what Amrit means, so now let us see, what does Vela means. Vela means time, means hour...so Amrit Vela means, the time we dedicate ourselves in the spiritual practice of concentration and dhyan, to recollect our soul consciousness from the outer world, and enter within to taste that Amrit ban iwhich is flowing non stop all the 24 hours, irrespective of class, caste, creed or community... Let us be a bit broader minded. Let us not be so rigid, that we do not understand the Bani in the true sense, to actually where our Guru Sahibans are pointing us, to look at. If there was a particular time, why would the Bani say: Nanak, Amrit Nam, maha ras meetha, an din anter, man tan peeva. This means, O Nank, the Nam is utter sweet, I drink its Nectar day and night within my body and mind. Nam or Shabad, is for conquering the mind, vices, kal, karmas... and the thing is we have collected so much dirt since we have stepped into the creation....that no amount of bhakti can clean us. It is His utter grace, His daya meher, His drishtee, by which we get purified and merge in Him. And Wahiguru knows our pitiful situation, how moorakhs and manmukhs we are .... and so, in order to make things easy for us, He has kept Himself within us, so that we do ot need to go anywhere, nor spend money, but get Him freely at the time we want, or the time suitable to us. What else do we want? He is so dayalu. I agree we have heard since childhood and have read in the translations, that Amrit Vela is the dawn hours...this again is human manipultaion. More over, from a higher point of view, everything that Wahiguru has made is good, there is no such thing as auspicious, or bad times, any time we take His Name and do His bandagee, is even a better time... andevery time we forget Him is a sin, is a bad time. Going back to your interpreatation of Amrit Vela, does not the Japji Sahib say also: ਕਵਣੁ ਸੁ ਵੇਲਾ ਵਖਤੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਵਣ ਥਿਤਿ ਕਵਣੁ ਵਾਰੁ Kavan S Vaelaa Vakhath Kavan Kavan Thhith Kavan Vaar कवणु सु वेला वखतु कवणु कवण थिति कवणु वारु What was that time, and what was that moment? What was that day, and what was that date? ਕਵਣਿ ਸਿ ਰੁਤੀ ਮਾਹੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਹੋਆ ਆਕਾਰੁ Kavan S Ruthee Maahu Kavan Jith Hoaa Aakaar कवणि सि रुती माहु कवणु जितु होआ आकारु What was that season, and what was that month, when the Universe was created? ਵੇਲ ਨ ਪਾਈਆ ਪੰਡਤੀ ਜਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਲੇਖੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ Vael N Paaeeaa Panddathee J Hovai Laekh Puraan वेल न पाईआ पंडती जि होवै लेखु पुराणु The Pandits, the religious scholars, cannot find that time, even if it is written in the Puraanas. ਵਖਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਕਾਦੀਆ ਜਿ ਲਿਖਨਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ Vakhath N Paaeiou Kaadheeaa J Likhan Laekh Kuraan वखतु न पाइओ कादीआ जि लिखनि लेखु कुराणु That time is not known to the Qazis, who study the Koran. ਥਿਤਿ ਵਾਰੁ ਨਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਜਾਣੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਮਾਹੁ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ Thhith Vaar Naa Jogee Jaanai Ruth Maahu Naa Koee थिति वारु ना जोगी जाणै रुति माहु ना कोई The day and the date are not known to the Yogis, nor is the month or the season. From these above lines , Guru Nanak clearly says that there is no such time for Wahiguru as per our perceptions. He is limitless, He is infinite, He is above time, that is why He is Akal Purukh. So if He is free, and above time, why would He limit us within time? It makes no sense. He wants to make us like Him, free, limitless and above time... We are so weak, that we only have excuses...when He is within us, for us only, all the 24 hours without any restrictions. Does the child has specific timings to love his parents? No. Then why do we want to restrict Him, to a paricular time to be loved, when we can love him all the 24 hours, by His Simran, by His dhyan, if not all the 24 hours due to our interaction with the world, at least we should take the most profit of the time available and suitable to us. Wahiguru Jee.

Dear _water_ Let me tell you one thing, our relation is with Him, isn´t it? Whatever we do, we do to strenghten that bond of love and devotion with Him. But where is He? Is not He, within us? You see, the concepts of time and space that we have, exist in our realms only. He is Akal, means beyond the parameters of time and space. So let us get above and out from our limitations, which we have created. Any time we want to love and adore Him, is the correct time. There are no special times. Maybe in the man made, temples, churches, gurdwaras, monasteries, synagogues, mosques...there are timings of opening or closing, but, there where He really is, which is within us, there are no such timings, He is available to us all the 24 hours, knowing our limitations, He has kept Himself within us .... we just need the sincere desire to love Him...that is all that is required from us. He is so gracious and so merciful.... So brother, do not get disheartened, just approcah Him, whatever time is suitable to you. Of course, for those who have walked a bit on spirituality and are a bit advanced, early hours are suitable, because there are no telephone calls, no door bells, no traffic noises, there are no worries of studies, nor work ....because silence is required for that good concentration and dhyan. Otherwise one can adjust and should adjust to each one´s envoirements and particular conditions...there are no hard and fast rules in devotion. As said before, only sincere desire is required to love Him with all our heart and mind....that is it,bro. May God bless you. P.S: The true Amrit is within us, so anytime we go within ourselves to have it, that is Amrit Vela for us .... Such is His Glory, His mahanta... Outer amrit vela is empty as per contents in spirituality ...so try to make your own Amrit Vela by going within, adjusting according to the suitable timings for your own comfort, and have it there as many times you want, and as much you want, nobody can stop you, as our Father Akal Purukh, is there with us.

Dear jasvendrasingh jee, Well, it all depends on who likes, needs or does not mind comments. These type of comments, by themselves do no harm to anybody. Each and everyone is free on taking it or not. This is a free world. Nobody should force anything on anybody, nor expect even to be accepted by all ...this is what I have seen and learnt from life after a long interaction with the characterless human beings ...who do not even spare the mahapurukhs.... The thing is, as you say, that there is no need to comments if one does not reach anywhere by reading or listening to so many sants... That is true, because mere words, mere intentions, do not take anyone anywhere, as long as you do not act upon what you hear and learn. Just by saying food or listening water, water ....will not quench your hunger neither your thirst...until you yourself, do not eat that food from the plate, or drink the water from your glass ...and this applies not only with you, or me, but with each and every soul who wants transformation, who wants the realization of the divine. It is practice of action that counts. It is practice of Nam that counts alone. All our Guru Sahibans, and all the true Gurmukhs from all over, stressed on Nam bhakti alone. Read the Bani from any Ang, from left to right, from up to down, or viceversa ..... it is only mahima of Nam that one finds. And then let us look at ourselves, how many of us sincerely follow this Gurmat implicitly. I think "kotan meh kot", some "virley jeevas", some wadbhagee only.... The rest of us are bound with many, many other things .... It is not being discussed here, if they are good or bad, or necessary, or anything alike... Only the base teachings of Gurmat are being highlighted, which is sole love and devotion at the Lotus Feet of Wahiguru Akal Purukh alone. But as Wahiguru is Nirankara, how to please Him and manifest Him within us? Well, for that the Bani says: Har Simran meh Prabh aap Nirankara. Means, in spite of Wahiguru being formless, colourless, He has hidden Himself in His simran.... Again the Bani says: Jin Har japeeya seh Har hoeeya, means, whosoever meditates on Him by his Simran, becomes Him. You see, the Bani constantly repeats, that by doing the practice of His simran only, can we become Him. The Bani does not say, eat this, drink this, wear this, go here, do this so many times, read this , light this .....nothing of these things.....this is all man made, though these things have been presented to us in a subtle way as our very own sikh identity... we have thus been deluded, to the extent we do not reason and try to see any logic, but we even fight with those who do not act like us, we see them as strangers, as intruders, as enemies in our community. On the other side, those who have supported and devloped all this paraphernalia, are taken as heros ... This world is made like that... where the truth is taken as poison, and the poison is taken as amrit... This is not only within our own sikh community, but it has been happening from Aad Jugad with all the humans of any age, of any time, country or creed ...there is no cure for it. Unless He Himself wants to make you believe in His Bani. Millions of us read the Bani regularly with faith, and follow our traditions, but tell me, how many of us do understand what is written in it? The Bani is so pure, so high, that even if one single Shabad of it, goes inside you, it is suffice to change one´s whole point of view, it is suffice to bring that change for betterment in oneself...because it is now when one is really walking towards Wahiguru. It is not bad to remind each other, hey what are you doing here? Do not waste your time, your life... Do something useful(Nam Simran) to return to our Father´s house. He is awaiting with His arms wide open, for whosoever wants to return, by understanding and practicing what the Bani says... And the Bani simply says: Saas saas simroh Gobind. You need not do anything else, apart from this spiritual practice of His Simran. As all other things, will engage one in karmas, and they maybe good karmas even, but it is only His Simran, which frees us from all bondages. Others are left, until they get tired and exhausted from this illusory creation .... where only pain, misery, falsehood or untruth prevails.

Dear _Guest_ as long as your business= investment/trading does not deal with: theft extortion drugs, alcohol, meat, prostitution, or any of its branches, and does not harm anyone, by word, thought and action, neither does it trespass the law of righteousness(dharma), neither do you cheat your customers, nor suck the blood of your workers, if any at all, you should not feel guilty at all, that is indeed honest living. Honesty has to do with consciousness in normal conditions .... though I am quite aware that sinners have no consciousness ... But from your talking and your attitude, I perceive ...... that you are honest. The motor behind anything immoral: is the focre of ego and greed combined together. Ego can not be eliminated so easily by us, but at least we should control greed, so that it may not ruin us. History has ample examples of these greedy people: like Ravan, like Hitler, like Duryodhan ...and an endless list of more such individuals... who inspite of acheving, name, fame, high status ....died like beasts.

Dear Sangat Jee, the lightining of a lamp, or dhoop, is usually considered as a part of offering one`s reverence and faith to the deity object of our devotion. Not only lightining this lamp is a part of that ritual, but some more elements are also offered, like water , food, fruits, sweets, saffaron, etc....and to offer these one´s practices, adequate utensils are used to offer them, which make a whole packet with these elements in consideration. So, these are all our outer worldly ways, which almost all believers of all religions put it into an almost a daily ritual, maybe at home, or in the temples, churches and places of pilgrimages. On the other side of all these practices, is Gurmat, the path of the Saints, the Gurmukhs, who only need Nam, as their objective, and use the plate of their purified mind, with the soul offered as lamp, scent and flowers, at the Lotus feet of Wahiguru Akal Purukh. This is the true offering, who only the real enlightened can do and invite us to do the same. This type of devotion, is the highest among all practices. In this devotion, we offer and give our everything to Him, we do not keep anything back with us. All our so called houses, money, business, properties ...are lifless, are temporay for us, are not ours really. Before we came to have them, in the past, they were of our ancestors, or even other owners, and after some time they will go the hands of others, so how come they be ours? So apart from our mind and soul, what is ours really now? Nothing. And then there comes a time even, when by Nam Simran, the mind gets dissolved and we become pure souls, without any blemishes or layers of dirt on it. And thus the real devotion, is done by the soul , by offering herself unconditonally in the meditation, in the dhyan of Wahiguru. All outer elements offered to Him, can be purchased if one has money. What if one is poor, and has no money to buy them, can that soul do not perform His devotion? Some may argue and say, even a leaf of tree is accepted by Him, if given with love and faith. Again we come to a point, where we are dependentant on some outer elements.... Wahiguru is surely much more wiser than us, and so are His Sant Janas and Gurmukhs. Through them, He tells us, all your envoirements are depending on your karmas, on which you have no control, which can make you have all the comodities of life, or so poor, that you do not have proper food to feed yourself or clothes to cover your body properly or a roof under to sit and sleep. But you are my very own, I can not deprive you from doing my bhakti, which is ultimately what is going to bring you back to me, wherever you maybe, however you maybe. For that purpose, I am going to keep myself within yourself, to make the things easiest for you. I am available all the 24 hours for you, without any time limitations, the doors are opened always for you. Whenever you remember me, and want to come nearer to me, just board the vehicle of Nam, and you shall reach me me. That is why the Bani says: Nanak, Nam Jahaaz hae. Nam is the vehicle to take us. But to take us where? The answer is, to Him. Wahiguru Akal Purukh is so merciful, so dayalu, that He has made the things very easy for us even before we came into existence. It is we stupid humans, manmukh humans who complicate things, then we fight and kill or die in the adulterated religion created by us...then too we proudly say, it is in the name of my religion, my god. Are we not insane, life is given to us by Him, to do His bandagee, His seva, and for that we have to live...not to die. Death does not take us anywhere, but it is by doing His bhakti only, that we get deliverance from the wheel of eighty four, chaurasee ka chakar, the cycle of births and deaths. Death given or taken is a very big sin. And sin is not righteousness. It is wrong to think, that by giving my life for my religion, I shall go to Him. Through the Bani, we know it is only Nam bhakti which burns our karmas, on the contrary dying or killing, is adding more heavy karmas to our already infinite stock of karmas. If it was that easy, our Guru Sahibans would have surely told us, take the poison in his name and die by commiting suicide. So simple, isn´t it? Why to live a strugglig life? Or why to wait for somebody to kill us? If dying or killing would ever take us to Him... Let us remove all the stupid dirt from our minds, through the Bani. Let us not allow anybody to manipulate us, with agyanta. Because they are destined to drown, and all those who follow their steps, shall be also drowned, such is the play of Kal... So according to the beautful topic of the this thread, a Shabad is taken from the pure paviter Bani, of one of His true devotees, named Bhagat Ravi Das in Raag Dhanasree, to show us, what is His devotion? What is required for His devotion? What are the results of His true devotion? Here it goes: naam tayro aartee majan muraaray. Your Name, Lord, is my adoration and cleansing bath. har kay naam bin jhoothay sagal paasaaray. Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are useless. naam tayro aasno naam tayro ursaa naam tayraa kaysro lay chhitkaaray. Your Name is my prayer mat, and Your Name is the stone to grind the sandalwood. Your Name is the saffron which I take and sprinkle in offering to You. naam tayraa ambhulaa naam tayro chandno ghas japay naam lay tujheh ka-o chaaray. Your Name is the water, and Your Name is the sandalwood. The chanting of Your Name is the grinding of the sandalwood. I take it and offer all this to You. naam tayraa deevaa naam tayro baatee naam tayro tayl lay maahi pasaaray. Your Name is the lamp, and Your Name is the wick. Your Name is the oil I pour into it. naam tayray kee jot lagaa-ee bha-i-o uji-aaro bhavan saglaaray. Your Name is the light applied to this lamp, which enlightens and illuminates the entire world. naam tayro taagaa naam fool maalaa bhaar athaarah sagal joothaaray. Your Name is the thread, and Your Name is the garland of flowers. The eighteen loads of vegetation are all too impure to offer to You. tayro kee-aa tujheh ki-aa arpa-o naam tayraa tuhee chavar dholaaray. Why should I offer to You, that which You Yourself created? Your Name is the fan, which I wave over You. das athaa athsathay chaaray khaanee ihai //tan hai sagal sansaaray. The whole world is engrossed in the eighteen Puraanas, the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and the four sources of creation. kahai ravidaas naam tayro aartee sat naam hai har bhog tuhaaray. Says Ravi Daas, Your Name is my Aartee, my lamp-lit worship-service. The True Name, Sat Naam, is the food which I offer to You Wahiguru alone and His Nam, are worthy of our devotion. Wah wah Sachay Badshah.

Dear _Guest_, Really giving a second thought to your question, which is deep by itself, though with another aspect or connotation, but the fact is if you want to have a good sleep, you must do some sort of physical work or exercise, to the extent you get physically exhausted. But to think, that by reading or pondering on some Shabad, I will get a good sleep ... I personally do not think that is a right attitude or perspective. Beware, because any Shabad from the Bani, if it strikes your mind, then you will even get less sleep, or you will not need it at all. Just think, the Shabad, which sustains the whole creation with its energy ...will it not give you that support, that anchor, that energy, that you will be lighter and stronger in all ways, whether physical, whether mental or spiritually healed. Means when one´s soul, drinks the Amrit of that Nam, that Shabad, within, one turns from agyanta to gurmukhta, from a sleepy state to "jagrata", of a Brahamgyani, you will feel just fresh at all times, otherwise, how do we explain, that mahapurukhs are so fresh at all times...what is their secret? By attaching ourselves to Nam or Shabad, and getting merged into it, one elevates one´s consciousness above the borders of the law of karmas, which may come and go, but will not affect one´s inner peace, and bliss. Outwardly we may look, we are suffering, but the fact is, the soul attached to Shabad within, by His grace, is above the effects of all karmas and does not get affected by them in any way. So, read the Bani, and try to act upon the base of Gurmat, by attaching yourself at all times to that only reality, which is Nam or Shabad. The following words of Sachay Patshah in Raag Sorath, are very soothing for the soul, and they confirm, that what has been humbly advised above: ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ Jan Naanak Naam Dhhiaaeiaa जन नानक नामु धिआइआ Servant Nanak meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, ਤਾ ਸਗਲੇ ਦੂਖ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ Thaa Sagalae Dhookh Mittaaeiaa ता सगले दूख मिटाइआ And all his sorrows depart. The bhakti of Nam is such pure and high, that it not only mitigates one´s sorrows, by washing our sins, but at the same time, it fills us with His virtues, such as, His Consciousness, His bliss .... to the extent that we become one with Him, without any distinction. What else do we need? Why do we fail to understand the Bani? What is the reason, that we do not follow Gurmat, but our own manipulations, our maanmat with ceremonies, rites, rituals, etc... As per Gurmat, if we take any ang from the Bani, it only stresses on Nam and its bhakti, on Shabad, the essence of Wahiguru Akal Purukh. May God bless you. Waheguru Jee.

Once Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj was passing through some villages with some of His close disciples, and He saw a brahmin or someone early in the morning elevating his arms and pouring down water from a glass... When that man was asked by Guru Nanak Maharaj, upon what he was doing? So the man answered, I am offering water to the Sun god. On hearing so, Maharaj told one of His disciples to fetch Him a bucket of water. And as that bucket was brought, He took it an throw away the water some meteres far, and at same time said, this water, is to water my land a few miles away ... On hearing that, the brahmin laughed, and said, that if He was insane, how could a bucket of water thrown here reach His village. To this, Guru Jee said, if your glass of water can reach the Sun millions of miles away, why could not His bucket of water reach My village just a few miles away? It was long time ago, I heard this story, I do not even know how true it is , but my mind sees rationality behind it. It may have happened or not, but it makes sense according to Gurmat. Some times, Guru Sahibans use some words, but we must understand the Bani, and not take them literally some times, but the mesaage they want to convey us through them. What is to be understood in summary, is that no water, no fire, no scent, no food reaches Him as per our offerings as such. If ever we want to offer Him a Lamp, let us offer Him the Light of our enlightened mind, if we want to offer Him some scent, let us offer Him the scent which really reaches Him, and that is the scent, the flame within us, of His bhakti , of His Simran... is it not that the offerings are done to reach Him, to please Him? Then, let us look aroud us in these huge vast Universe, is there anything apart His Simran and our soul which can reach there where He is? Because even our mind, which is thiner than the air and faster than the wind ....can not reach Him, what to say about material things made out from the 5 tatwaas... So let us not get entangled with outer rituals and things....our Guru Sahibans always point us to go within ourselves, there where His real temple is, and offer Him, the light and scent of our bhakti to Him alone.

Dear Alias Jee, please do not take my words as something personal, they are used as a general rule ... All I can only say, may your wishes be fullfilled in the way you want, or think it to be. We are here to give only our sincere opinions, I do not like to go into debates ....it leads nowhere. My motto is : be helpful and leave it, but do not expect to be accepted by all, as there is ample room for each and every personality. Everybody has a way chalked out to walk his/her destiny...so the thing is not to force anything on anybody. We should give time to time ....so everything takes its place in natural way We are nobody to reform or change the mind, the thinking of anybody ....