Jonny101

I thought he was affiliated with rara sahib sampradha

The reason he seems to be angry at me is because he was doing Nindya of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur who without a doubt was the greatest Sikh leader. I challenged his criticism and instead criticized Binod Singh for his treachery and because of his treachery the Sikh independence of Punjab was pushed back by 40 years. I even wrote poetry for him. And instead of giving me a similar witty reply he insults my parents like a little school yard child and he did the same thing to another member until the admins had to take action against him. He knows I did not do any criticism of Mata ji or Sant ji but a serial liar cannot help but lie against another. The only part where he is telling the truth is that I did indeed criticize Binod Singh who was basically the Santa Singh of the 1700s.

Lies, lies and all lies. My only crime was to defend Baba Banda Singh Bahadur from your venomous Nindya. And you replied to me by insulting my parents. You did the same thing to another member who came in support of me. Due to this repeated misbehavior you are no longer allowed to post here freely by the admins. I no longer even read your posts here. So don't quote me in future.

So you think that Sikhs and Muslims need to remain bitter enemies for as long as this world exists? And because of 84 do we also need to become eternal enemies of the Hindus forever and ever? Yesterday Hindus were our friends but they ended up knifing us in the back. And Yesterday's enemies can become strategic allies of today. Try to see the bigger picture.

Nothing wrong with forging relation with an enemy of an enemy. There is absolutely no wisdom in Sikhs making enemies out of Hindus and Muslims at the same time.

Usually I agree but the Rohingya issue is different. Their situation is almost as bad as the Yazidis. Their women are being gang raped by soldiers, children(even babies) are being burned alive. Barely any Muslim country is helping them with the exception of Turkey. They don't even have clean water to drink which we all get for granted. Helping them I have noticed two things. #1 it is annoying the hell out of Hindus. They cannot digest the fact that their so called "sword arm" (Sikhs) are helping their biggest enemy i.e. Muslims. They don't like that Sikhs are overstepping the boundaries they have imposed on us and taking an independent course of action by helping these Rohingya. #2 This move by Sikhs will forge closer relations with the Muslims of South Asia(Indo-Pak-Bangla). We need to see this from the geo political perspective too and what effects it will have in future. I know that's how Sikh organizations like Dal Khalsa are seeing it.

The term Jatha is more puratan among Sikhs than the term sampradha. The term Sampradha you will not find in any puratan Sikh text. On the other hand since puratan times traditionally a Sikh leader has always been called a Jathedar(i.e. head of a Jatha). That's why even Taksal mahapurkhs would refer to Taksal as Jatha. The usage of the term Sampradha seems to have begun amongst the Sikhs since after the British conquest of Punjab. Before that it was always Dal, Panth, Jatha which was used to denote a Sikh group.

Why modern Sikhs are making the term Jathebandi as negative? Even Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale use to refer to Taksal as "Jatha". Jatha or Jathebandi are part of the Sikh vocabulary.

Dilgeer is not only subjective but an out right liar especially in regards to Dasam Bani. This video exposes one such lie of Dilgeer. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2070444969844127&id=1451121228443174 This man has no morals when he can lie so much.

My personal opinion is that things are not black or white. A lot of Sikhs today are in the grey shades. Baba Dhumma is such a case. No doubt his association with Badal has hurt many people's sentiments. But I think he is doing this strategically. He is probably thinking to achieve his religious agenda while joining the system instead of opposing it and achieving nothing. He is doing like what the Singh Sabha Lahore did or even Bhai Vir Singh Jee's Chief Khalsa Diwan did who decided to befriend the hated British while furthering their religious agenda of Parchar. No one can deny that Baba Dhumma has three things to his credit such as the 1984 memorial, discarding the missionary backed Purewal calendar and parchar of Dasam Bani. All these three things are great sevas that were achieved because of him. The story of 1984 memorial needs to be mentioned here. When he created the memorial, he convinced Badal that it would be like a memorial and nothing else. But the day before it was to be inaugurated, he sent some students from the Taksal to install the plaque mentioning that this memorial is in dedication of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and to install the picture of Sant jee inside the memorial. When Badal found out he sent his SGPC task force Gundas to remove this plaque since a government Chamcha like badal has a severe allergy to Sant BHindranwala jee's name. But Dhuma had his students from Taksal to guard the plaque and memorial all night long and oppose any attempts of Badal's dogs from removing that plaque. I still remember the Indian/Hindu media's utter shock that the plaque and memorial was a dedication to Sant Jarnail SIngh Bhindranwale. I'm not a supporter of Dhumma. I personally like Bhai Amrik Singh Ajnala the most but I think it is not fair to say Dhumma and Baba Ram Singh of Sangrava are government agents. All of them are doing seva in their own say. It would be better if all of them would be able to work together though. Maybe one day.

I know it doesn't need to be said but this was an excellent post.

Saw the documentary of Anita Rani finding about the truth of what happened to her Grandfather's first wife. What was shocking is how she always thought that her Grandfathers' first wife died after jumping in a well but the Muslim baba reveals that all the women in the village were taken away by the Muslims. The Muslim woman who she interviewed says that a lot of people made up the story of jumping into wells because it was seen as the honourable thing to say while no one wanted to admit that their women folk were kidnapped and raped. It seems to me that the only women in Punjab that really jumped into wells were the Sikh women of Pothohar as that was documented by even the newspapers back then. But all the Punjabis just copied this story for themselves as well. I have even seen Muslims claiming their women jumped into wells in Patiala and other regions of east Punjab. I have asked many Sikh elders who lived during 1947 if such things had occurred and they always say they never heard of Muslim women jumping into wells in Malwa or Doaba areas.

Rajiv Malhotra is not in the same category as Sakshi Bhardhwaj. Due to ignorance Rajiv(like most Hindus) believes Sikhs are Hindus while Sakshi Bhardhwaj is just hateful and resentful against Sikhs, Sikhi and Sikh Gurus in general. She has a severe hatred for Sikhs and their Gurus. Rajiv Malhotra it seems is just ignorant about Sikhi and the mission of the Sikh Gurus. Like most Hindus he ignorantly believes that the only purpose of Sikhi is to protect Hinduism. Leaving aside his ignorance of Sikhi but he has done some great research in exposing Christian missionary organizations and western academia's attitude towards eastern traditions. Before him, a lot of people did not know of westerners doing theft of eastern knowledge in regards to mind sciences, medicine and taking the credit of those and re-branding it as "western knowledge".

From my observations it is not fathers but mothers who decide whether their boys will be keshdhari or not. Most Sikh fathers(even the Mona ones) are neutral on this matter.

There has recently been some nindaks here who are shamelessly doing Nindya against Brahmgianis and Kharkoo Shaheed Singhs. Such Nindaks also have a track record of using abusive language against other forum member's parents who defend Shaheed and Brahmgianis from their Nindya. Such Nindaks lower the standard of this forum.

That is a problem. We have had so many non Sikhs making fake IDs pretending to be Sikhs and trying to impose their non Sikhs agendas on us. Some like this Parmjit is found out earlier while some are better at hiding their real views.

It is one thing to have a discussion with light jokes but it would be appreciated if you don't mention my parents in this discussion in such a vulgar manner. Anyway, I'm done with this.

Really big loss for Bhai Sahib's family and our Panth

If you think Mata ji is a collaborator with the Mughals who were waging a deadly war on the Khalsa then I feel sorry for you. You are just as illogical as the missionaries. Your shamelessness on this thread has inspired me to dedicate this poem to you in regards to doing Nindia of a Gurmukhi Pyara, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur ਗ਼ਾਫ਼ਲ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਰਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਾ, ਤੂੰ ਹੋਕੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ। ਬੰਦਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਬਣਕੇ, ਨਾ ਕਮਾ ਇਹ ਕੁਕਰਮ। ਹਠੀ ਹੋਕੇ ਜ਼ਿਦ ਵਿਚ ਖੋਕੇ, ਕਰਦੈਂ ਬੜੀ ਤੂੰ ਗੱਲ ਕੋਝੀ। ਬੰਦਾ ਸੀ ਬੇਦਾਗ ਹਸਤੀ, ਜ਼ਿਹਨ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਆ ਇਹ ਸੋਝੀ। ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲੇ, ਪਰ 'ਸੀ' ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਇਨ ਕੀਤੀ। ਐਸੀ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਕਰੇ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ, ਜੋ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੇ ਹੜਬੀਤੀ। ਬੇਤਾਜ ਅਮੀਰ ਸੀ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ, ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਰਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾਸ ਹੀ। ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ, ਸਿਮਰ ਕਰੇ ਸਾਸ ਗਰਾਸ ਜੀ। ਕੁਫਰ ਤੋਲਣ ਬਥੇਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ, ਪਰ ਸੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਾਸ। ਬੇਮਿਸਾਲ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਬੰਦੇ ਦੀ, ਜੋ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਕਰੇ ਸਭ ਨਾਸ। ਸਵੇਰ ਦਾ ਭੁਲਾ ਸ਼ਾਮੀ ਆਏ, ਨਾ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਭੁੱਲਣਹਾਰਾ। ਹੁਣ ਤ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਛੱਡਦੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ, ਬੰਦੇ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਕਸ਼ਨਹਾਰਾ।

Mata Ji's letter was forged by the Mughals to pacify the Sikh warriors so they would stop following Baba ji. That is why the Sikhs did not stop following Baba ji and continued on waging war against the Mughals. The only time some Sikhs made the mistake of abandoning Baba ji was in Gurdas Nangal due to binod singh's treachery. So stop putting my Mata ji down to the level of your binod singh. Same with Baba Deep Singh ji. He has given divine Darshan to Sant Gurbachan Singh bhindranwale along with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other Brahmgiani Shaheeds which further proves his exaulted position among Shaheeds. Baba ji was personally chosen by Guru Sahib to lead the Khalsa. I have much more faith in Guru Sahib's choice than you. Still it is not too late. You are still alive and I advise you to repent for your sinful Karms on this forum of doing Nindia of a Brahmgiani Mahapurkh. Or else you will regret this dusht Karms in Jamlok but then it will be too late to repent.

No doubt he had access to the info that was available to him. But who is to say all the info that he received is 100% accurate? Panth Prakash it is not Bani that we should take it to be 100% correct, at least I don't consider it to be 100% especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur or the reason he gave for Bhai Mani Singh Jee's Shaheedi or even saying that Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee first drank Bhang as soon as he woke up in the morning even before Ishnan or Nitnem which even goes against Nihang Maryada that is to do Ishnan then do Nitnem and only after that they eat or drink anything. Some information that Bhangu received is 3rd or 4rd generation hand information especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. How can we take that as 100% accurate? on the other hand one should look at all the information(especially contemporary) from that time period, read it with proper perspective and then come to a conclusion. Just look at the times of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. How much lies have been spread on him by Hindus and even by Sikhs like claiming he wanted to declare himself as a Guru. We have access to info like we never had in history. So we didn't repeat the mistake with Sant Jee that we made with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in believing the misinformation.

On the contrary, Dr Ganda Singh's book is all substantial with references from Persian and Mughal sources which are contemporary and did not make the mistake of only relying on Panth Prakash (written during the times of M Ranjit SIngh) for all his info like some members here on this forum

Bhai Baaj Singh ji was not the son of Binod Singh. binod singh's son's name was Kahn Singh Ji. But both Baaj Singh Jee and Bhai Kahn Singh Jee were part of the Panj Pyaras and remained with Baba Jee and did not break ranks and abandon Baba Jee in Gurdas Nangal as binod singh did. The fact that his own son Kahn Singh ji stayed with Baba jee shows how wrong binod singh was in this matter. Later when all the Singhs were caught by the Mughals and being taken to Delhi binod singh used his influence with his Mughal buddies to free his son from captivity. Just look at the difference here. Baba Jee had a chance to save his infant son from a cruel death but didn't out of khalsa principle and he became a Shaheed along with his son. While that binod singh saves his son. The other other remaining three of the Panj Pyaras including Bhai Baaj Singh Ji became Shaheed with Baba Ji and no doubt are in Sach Khand. I will much rather listen to those Shaheeds than binod singh who spread these lies against Baba Jee in order to justify his treachery

It is just semantics. Forget spirit or soul. ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਨੇ "ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖ" ਸੋ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਇਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਹੈ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣਾ ਕਿਓਂਕਿ "ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲਪ" ਪਰ ਹਾਂ , ਜੇ ਫਰਕ ਪੈਣਾ ਤਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਊ ਜਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਾਹ ਜਮਦੂਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆ|| ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਵਖਤ ਸਮਝ ਆਊਗੀ ਜਦ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਵਰਗੇ ਸੰਤ ਮਹਾਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਜੁਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲਣੇ ਪੈਣੇ. it is one thing if a person innocently does Nindia of a Brahmgiani like Babaji after reading Panth Prakash. But when a person is made aware of the slander against Baba Jee in Panth Prakash and still insists upon continuing his Nindia then he is responsible for his own torture he will endure in Yamlok from Jamdoots.

Personally no. I don't support the thaali aarti either. But there is a way to get your views across without actually doing what the man in the picture did by physically trying to stop their tradition. That is beadvi in the eyes of Hazuri Sikhs present there. ਜੇ ਦਲੀਲ ਨਾਲ ਗੱਲ ਹੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਮੁਸ਼ਕਿਲਾਂ ਹੱਲ ਹੋ ਜਾਨ। Sadly I have seen a lot of times missionaries resort to such tactics as to intentionally offend other Sikhs that they do not agree with them like calling Dasam Granth as Gandh Granth, Gandh da Tokra and recently I saw a picture of bachitar naatak in a very dirty gutter and the missionary who did this Beadvi writes this is what all Sikhs need to do. What is the need for missionaries to do all of this? What will they gain other than make Sikhs fight one another. 20 years ago Sikhs were never fighting with each other over such religious issues as they are now.