Jonny101
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1 minute ago, MuslimNeighbour said:I don't hold any weight in the opinion on whether God is inside or outside of his creation, whether he can become a man or not so that's not a point of debate for me. The fact that I had to spell that out for you is appalling on your end.
Islam and Judaism's monotheism is the only pure form of monotheism amongst major World religions, the rest including yours is not monotheism. You talk about humanitarianism yet your Waheguru sent all 10 of his Gurus/himself to India, he could have sent 1 to each continent and still have some to spare.
Your last sentence would indicate you're the type of Sikh who believes all religions lead to the same path?
Make a thread about this subject and let's see you get educated by your fellow sangat shall we.
Yeh well Jesus never claimed to be God but look at Christians...
Islamic and Judaic monotheistic is not the same. Jews don't pray to their prophets as Muslims do to Mohammed which by definition is Shirk. Neither have Jews given a semi divine status to their prophets as Muslims have to Mohammed. Hadith reports testify how Muslims would claim that the sweat of Mohammad smelled better than scent and drinking his holy blood and urine would save them from hell fire. That means he had a god man like body like some Hindu devta. Jews never claimed any of that for their prophets.
As for what is monotheism, we don't believe in Islamic definition of monotheism and neither should you expect us to look at monotheism from the Islamic lense. We have our own definition of "Ik Oankaar".
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10 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
Well that's an assumption made by you based off of all the Hindu influence your religion has including Kirtan. It's easy to see why Hindus legitimately hold a view of SIkhi being a direct offshoot of their faith if not thinking it's pretty much the same thing and their Constitution calling you guys long haired Hindus. Had black Christians been around the time your Kirtan was developed no doubt you'd have their clapping in there too.
But I fail to understand what is so objectionable to using instruments while singing? And if Hindus do use instruments while singing hymns that just proves they have one bonus point over Islamic dogma which due to superstition prevents you from using musical instruments, it's like Mohammad musically handicapped you guys from start.
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16 minutes ago, singhdalbir said:Here is a ted Talk from back in 2018 there this Lady talking about how Pedophilia is just like being gay. LOL I thought I would share this with everyone. She is trying to justify pedos lifestyle saying that is how they feel inside.
This is how it all starts. Just as homosexuality was slowly normalized over the decades starting off with suggestions and hints. They then give lectures and write articles to create sympathy until finally they get equality. They are now in the process of normalizing pedophilia and even incest, probably this will all occur in our lifetime. This is Ghor Kalyug. Unthinkable things will become normalized. These paapis don't just want equality they want privilege and domination. What is the need for them to indoctrinate little children from a young age? They expose little children to naked men and trannies in gay pride parades and portray it as something heroic like witnessing Rosa Parks sitting in a bus.
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1 hour ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
Christians do a lot of things their man-God never told them to do so that's an irrelevant point.
This to me looks like a clear cut copy and paste job with the words changed. In some videos even the instruments used are the same. Clearly not inspired by the other religion from the same land mass... or the religion of a number of your Guru's parents.
Completely different to this.
Don't confuse Adhan and Quran recitation with Nasheeds such as below.
I'm sure Azan would have been sung in Indian Ragas instead of being sung in pre Islamic pagan style yodel had Mohammad been born in India and started his religion in South Asia instead of Arabia. But Azan is singing none the less, just different style of singing.
As for instruments, kirtan can be done with or without an instrument. We don't have any superstitions preventing us from using instruments to sing praises of God like Islam has.
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2 hours ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
If you choose to deny any resemblance between Hindu Kirtan and Sikh Kirtan that's up to you. It's just another thing to note which is similar to Hinduism a religion from the same land mass. I am learning a lot of things about Sikhi from this forum thank you, most recently that the Gurus were God.
How is kirtan a Hindu concept? Christians sing in church is that taken from Hinduism? Muslims also sing/yodel their Azan is that also taken from Hinduism?
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On 8/17/2020 at 4:50 AM, MokhamSingh said:
There’s also NITNEM STEEK by Giani Avtar Singh, the grandson of Sant Gurbachan Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale.
Amir Bhandar has been uploaded in a very good resolution too...
That is one of my favorite Nitnem steeks. I wish some Nihang Singh would also write an entire steek of Sri Sarbloh Granth. Although Katha is available online but steek is also needed.
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20 minutes ago, Sat1 said:What a ridiculous, sexist post. Have you even reread what you’ve just written? Some people on here are unbelievably sexist. You’re turning Sikhi into a form of Islam. Grow up and understand that men and women are equal. And control your own lust and shortcomings.
Sat1 ji, I don't see what kuldip ji said that you would consider sexist. A Gurdwara is not a place for inappropriate dressing sense. Bani has made it clear that a woman who is proud of her body and shows off her body by dressing inappropriately is a Gavaar since that body will one day be turned to ash. This is not sexist, it is the truth. Does it make sense to wear skintight leggings in a Gurdwara and matha tek in front of the congregation? Your concept of equality between the sexes is that a woman should be able to do all the things (good or bad) that a man does and in this way you justify women dressing inappropriately. This is post modern nihilism of the west. We don't subscribe to this line of thinking. A Sikh lives according to Maryadha. The ideal dress for a Sikh is Bana, but if one wears something other than Bana it should not be inappropriate.
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3 hours ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
If the lead in prayer makes a mistake during recitation, someone from the congregation who spotted the mistake will correct them by reciting the part they got wrong immediately and the recitation from the lead will continue. I see Kirtan is another addition to Sikhi from Hinduism, nice.
You see Kirtan as a Hindu practice but the practice of Azan itself is taken from the pre Islamic Pagans like many other Islamic practices.
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5 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
Well we already both know the SGGS contains poetry from a Muslim, names of Allah like Raheem, Kareem and Allah itself so...
Do you agree you cannot explain why Sikhi shares so much with Hinduism to the point where a Sikh poster was so confused on this forum he said 'are we basically Hindus'?
Sikhi shares some universal truths that are also known to other religions. Sharing these truths does not mean a religion is taking anything from another religion. Going by your logic Islam took some things from Judaism, Christianity and mixed it with Arab paganism at least this is how an outsider would see it
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8 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
I fully expect a Sikh to side with Wood in that debate don't worry, it's your natural position to oppose the Muslim in any and all circumstances. You've shown your intellectual capacity or lack there of with citing Wood and following his rhetoric. You aren't wroth responding to any more.
I don't know what you mean by its our "natural position" but we are neither Muslim nor Christian so that naturally makes us neutral between the 2 Abrahamic rivals. Seeing this from a neutral position David has raised some valid points in regards to Muslims praying to Mohammed. He even cites Islamic sources like Hadiths to make his point. How do you explain this dilemma? When you pray to Mohammad not only is it Shirk but also contradicts your concept of monotheism. When Muslims pray to Mohammed that makes him into a God man similar to Jesus but Muslims just don't want to admit this it seems for whatever reason.
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8 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:noun
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the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.If you want to change the definition of monotheism sure go right ahead. I'm sure out of the 1 billion odd Hindus some will claim Hinduism is monotheistic despite admittedly praying to idols so...You've gone very off topic and even cited David Wood as though he's a credible source on Islam, I wouldn't even reference him as a source on his own faith of Christianity let alone something else, says a lot of about you.You wrote a lot of waffle to avoid my initial question "Explain why there are ample similarities to your fellow Dharmic faith of Hinduism then from your Sikh sources?"Since you've mentioned David I can do with a laugh.
Pretty much all the religions that claim to be monotheistic say they believe in one God. But they all define that concept of 1 God differently. You interpret it according to Islam and expect us non Muslims to interpret according to Islamic paradigms, that's not going to happen.
If I were you I wouldn't have posted that debate. Hijab just embarrassed himself with loud bolstering. He never addressed any of David's points and replies with childish remarks, spits and going off topic.
Do you also pray to Mohammad like 1.6 billion Muslims do worldwide? Do you believe he is dead or do you believe he can hear your prayers? Are you slafi, deobandi or brelvi?
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35 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
I'm factually correct in saying 'some' of your Gurus were born in to Hindu households, had I said 'most' then you'd have a point. How many times have I told you to read things through thoroughly before responding.
Another noob mistake by yourself assuming Muslims believe God is male, tsk tsk.
Like I've always thought Sikhi when you look in to it is not monotheistic at all, more pantheism than anything else.
So in short Nanak is another Jesus, God-man.
Sikhism is monotheistic but we don't believe in the Islamic paradigm of what defines monotheism. Islam as Muhammad created it is basically Judaism mixed with Arab paganism. Even within Islam there is so much differences of opinion. For example can Muhammad listen to the prayers of Muslims? According to the wahabis he can't since he's dead but brelvis believe he can hear the prayers of Muslims. Praying to Mohammed is a part of the Islamic faith since Muhammad is a divine figure which according to Islam is considered Shirk but this they don't want to admit. David Wood elaborates on this dilemma by citing Islamic sources
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On 8/15/2020 at 11:52 AM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh said:
You did however say you think that it is a fact that homosexuality is less prevelant among Sikhs. The Mods here allowed that point of view here to sit as fact while at the same time they refused to post any message with facts proving otherwise. Whichever way you look at it it is clear that a frank and honest 'discussion' on a subject has not been allowed to take place by the Mods of this 'discussion' forum.
Now.....You like to use the word 'missionary' alot. I wish you wouldn't because whenever you do most people are like me and picture images in their mind of a victorian christian missionary in a top hat trying to teach the gospel to tribes in darkest africa. Who and what the hell is a 'missionary' ? and whoever they are, they must be super powerfull super men if, apparently, they can be responsible for drugs, corruption, water table, soil erosion and homosexuality among Punjabis.
Look, the point is this: I feel as uncomfortable with the idea of homosexual behaviour as you do but at the same time I do at least understand that these people exist. Perhaps they feel as equally repulsed at the thought of a heterosexual man like myself being intimate with a woman. But heterosexual men like myself do exist and they must accept that and I must accept the fact that they exist. There is no room for hatred here. Just because you or I feel uncomfortable about some people it doesn't mean we should and can turn our heads the other way and pretend they don't exist and thus deny them access to the same rights and priviledges we enjoy....including marriage. Hatred begats more hatred. We Sikhs should know this better than anyone because we should never forget how, in 1915, all Sikhs were expelled from the west coast of Canada because people with hate in their hearts and minds could not control that hate. When Vancouver's Mayor, politicians, judges and police realised they couldn't legally deport Sikhs from Canada because they were British subjects those hate-mongers delved deep into their hate book and used homosexuality as a valid and legal reason to expel. Thus, all Sikhs were expelled from Canada not because they were Sikhs but because the police, politicians and courts colluded to say that the Sikhs indulge in homosexual practices (which at the time was illegal in Canada). That in itself should be enough for us to understand and appreciate which side of this debate we should be on. Which side of history do we want to be in - the right side or the wrong side ? Personally, we can go on feeling as uncomfortable or comfortable with homosexuality as we want - I know I will always feel uncomfortable with it but common sense dictates that the uncomfortableness must never tip over into hate. They exist. They're human beings. It's we heterosexuals who need to change a little by becoming more reasonable and accomodating.
Problem is when you try to equate a sexual deviancy with racial/religious equality. Being of a different race or religion is not a paap but indulging in homosexual acts is a Paap which can take you to Nark just like incest and pedophilia which are also sexual deviancies. Just think if tomorrow incest became part of the new pop culture of the west then the same arguments will be used to normalize that lifestyle and impose it on the rest of society.
We can already see how this lgbtq madness is getting out of hand where they are indoctrinating little children through sex Ed.
Little children are being exposed to these sickos
In what parallel universe is this OK?
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Thanks for sharing this. I was looking for this for a while but didn't know where to find it. This steek is done by a Nihang Singh.
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Sardar Ajmer Singh ji is one of the best scholars we have today. His research is always an eye opener. I have listened to all his lectures on YouTube and bought all his books. His research on the Gadar party and Kartar Singh Sarabha is ground breaking. For too long we had Hindus and communists both separately appropriating the Gadar Party to further their own anti Sikh agendas. Gadar Party was a Sikh movement.
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4 hours ago, Akalifauj said:ਮਃ ੫ ॥
Fifth Mehla:ਵਾਊ ਸੰਦੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਗਰਬਿ ਗਵਾਰ ॥
ਮੂਰਖ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਬਾਰੀਕ ਕੱਪੜੇ ਬੜੀ ਆਕੜ ਨਾਲ ਪਹਿਨਦੇ ਹਨ,
They wears clothes thin like the air/wind, what a proud fool they are!ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਚਲਨੀ ਜਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਹੋਏ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
ਪਰ ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! (ਮਰਨ ਤੇ ਇਹ ਕੱਪੜੇ ਜੀਵ ਦੇ) ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਂਦੇ, (ਏਥੇ ਹੀ) ਸੜ ਕੇ ਸੁਆਹ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ।੨।
O Nanak, they will not go with him in the end; they shall be burnt to ashes. ||2||SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 318
RAAG GAUREE GURU ARJAN DEV JIThanks to poster @puzzled for presenting this shabad that wearing of revealing clothing is wrong by Gurbani standards.
I hope after this shabad, you @Sat1 are content with Gurbani.
True, bani calls women who wear such cloths which reveal their bodies as ਗਵਾਰ because this body will one day be turned into ashes yet they take pride(ਗਰਬਿ) in showing it off. Today the situation is so bad that immodest type clothing has become the norm in society. Even in India in the urban centers a girl who wears vulgar clothing is called "bold" while a girl who wears traditional clothing is ridiculed by other girls by referring to her as "behenji".
One can wear western clothing and still look modest. Western clothing does not mean one has to reveal their bear legs or wear skin tight leggings in order to be western.
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1 hour ago, DelhiTurbanator said:
If you don't mind can you plz share links from where you gathered this info. All the articles and newspapers I read online have written that she had an affair with this low life Muslim and converted to Islam at her will. I was actually disappointed and sad that how can a daughter of a granthi, that too Nanakana sahib do these shameful acts. But your answer shows the other side of story. That manjit singh sirsa lied to all the indain sikhs few months ago that the girl was returned to her home safely.
This isn't the first such case. Many Hindu girls have been kidnapped and forcibly married to Muslims in Pakistan. Kind hearted leftist Muslims are the only ones making noise about such cases. But the girls are still never returned even though it is known she was kidnapped. They always come up with the same story that the girl ran away from home, converted to Islam. She is then isolated from her family by the authorities who say they are giving her 'refuge'. She is then, intimidated with threats and dire consequence to her and her family if she doesn't go back to her Muslim kidnapper/raper.
This time it happened to a Sikh girl. At first this left many Islamophile Khalistanis speechless because they thought Muslims are supposed to be the good guys. So now they give each other a false sense of satisfaction by going with the Muslim narrative that "the Sikh girl ran away". Japhi Singh of 2020 campaign is one example of such a "Khalistani". These modern Khalistanis are a disgrace to the movement.
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On 8/11/2020 at 8:39 PM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh said:
I posted a message with statistics that disprove everything you said a week ago. The Moderators refused to post it here, That's when the discussion here ended. If the Mods want to portray an illusion that everyone else is a a shirt-lifter and only Sikhs are manly warriors than then what is the point of even pretending to have a 'discussion' here ?
I never said "Sikhs are only manly warriors" but Homosexuality is a sexual deviancy and a Paap. I don't know maybe missionaries support this mental disorder or not but they are heretics I wouldn't be surprised if they support such paaps too
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6 hours ago, MuslimNeighbour said:
So not a single Sikh in this thread has called out OP on his way of thinking apart from jkvlondon but that was only for one thing.
Whatever happened to all you Sikhs crying about Hagia Sofia but got nothing to say about your fellow Singh wanting to shut down Mosques or forcefully convert them to Gurdwaras?
None of you religious Sikhs have called out your fellow Singh for using a derogatory term for Muslims, why?
Also what's your beef with Halal meat?
Also OP you better act on your fantasies quick, soon they'll be no Sikhs left, just an increased number of Christians in Indian Punjab.
Did OP take in to account the Mosques in Indian Punjab don't hold any real historical significance meanwhile Pakistan has several historically very important Sikh sites that would no doubt be a target for revenge if OP's pipe dream were to become a reality.
Think things through kid.
While some things said by OP are not in agreement with Gurmat but at least we Sikhs have the moral backbone to say so. Even the OP said what he said out of frustration after seeing how Sikhs are treated in Islamic counties, can you blame him? While we Sikhs are helping Muslims, building mosques for them in India, sheltering and feeding Kashmiri youth outside of Kashmir who were being targeted by Hindu radicals, protecting Muslim girls by personally escorting them to their parent's homes, feeding langar to Indian Muslims against the wishes of Hindus, what have your people done to reciprocate these friendly gestures of the Sikhs? We are still a target for conversions, Mullas in Pakistan want to tear down the statue of M Ranjit Singh in Lahore, they lament the decision of creating Kartarpur Gurdwara because they say it is against Islamic teachings.
Pak army and ISI is more far sighted. They know the wisdom of trying to forge a strategic alliance with the Sikhs but your Mullahs and their fan base cannot overlook their primitive mindset.
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9 hours ago, shastarSingh said:dear bro
kalki avatar will be an avatar of Vishnu. That's why Dasmesh Pita has mentioned him in '24 avatars of Vishnu ' section of Dasam Granth Ji.
Nehkalank avatar will be different and will be a Singh of Guru Sahib.
Nehkalank avatar is mentioned in bhattan de swaiye of Guru Ramdas ji in Guru Granth Sahib ji.
Very true. Although many say Nehkalank and Kalki is the same but from my understanding they will be different from Kalki. Nehkalank will be a Tyar Bar Tyar Singh who will bring about unity in the Panth. Discussion about him is best to be kept Gupt and should not be discussed openly. Mahapursh know a lot but don't discuss these matters openly.
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You would be surprised to know that most Khalistanis in India, Canada and US are extremely pro Muslim. They will never let this happen. Khalistanis in India are trying for forge a strategic alliance with Indian Muslims against Hindus. Today Khalistani Sikhs are trying to position themselves as protectors of Kashmiri Muslims just like Puratan Sikhs protected Kashmiri Hindus.
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7 hours ago, Akalifauj said:Homosexuality is mainly a white man's disease? White men flaunt their homosexuality more so it may seem so. But other races have similar numbers of homosexuals as whites do.
I used to think the same about this. But from my observation I've noticed men from other races such as Asians (Indians+Chinese) middle easterners and black men are not as much infected with this mental disorder. But with white men, homosexuality is as normal for them as breathing air. While for us we feel disgusted to the core about homosexuality, we can't even think about it. But white men magically turn into homos when they go to jail. It's as easy for them as flipping the light switch. And it's not just from modern times, homosexuality was quite normal among white men in ancient Greece and Rome. Christianity(which is a middle eastern religion) suppressed this but now homosexuality has come back in white culture with a vengeance. And they want to normalize this mental disorder amongst other races.
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Every religion wants white people in their ranks. But problem with that is they always try to push the homosexual agenda on the religion they adopt since homosexuality is mainly a white man's disease.
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On 8/3/2020 at 12:38 PM, chatanga1 said:
Up until the 1950s Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib was open. There were many walkways and bunge around it. In the 1950s SGPC decided to wall off Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib and enclose it. This most likely was what ended that particular walkway from Kaulsar to Amrit Sarovar.
PS I went for darshan of Sri Atal Rai Gurdwara when we went to Darbar Sahib 2 years ago. It was only then I "discovered" where Kaulsar was, and then went there. It is really tucked away. Even my mom wasn't aware of it. For most people, its ishnaan, darshan of Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib, Sri Akal Takht SAhib and then home.
Seeing what happened in 1984 it is actually good the complex was walled like a fort during the 1950s. If there were many walkways in 1984 it would have been harder for the Singhs to defend it.
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to do kirtan do you need a nice voice
in GUPT FORUM
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For us using or not using instruments is not even an issue. One can do kirtan with or without an instrument since using an instrument is not a sin in God's eyes. Our Gurus did not impose a dogma based on superstition that prevents us from using instruments. Some of the things in Islam are undeniably superstitious like hating instruments or even dogs. It just doesn't make any sense