californiasardar1

No. Doaba has been majority Hindu since 1947.

This is said. West London Singh/Jagsaw Singh: do you have any link to this story? We Sikhs do a shamefully poor job at helping our own.

I've seen many claims on the internet that Khalistani militants were responsible for Chamkila's murder. Here is one relevant article: http://1984tribute.com/Jhujaroo-Jeevani.php?id=291 "Bhai Neka then made a program to punish the singer who sang dirty songs, Amar Chamkila as he was destroying the Punjabi culture with his filthy songs. The singhs had tried to make him clean himself up, at first Chamkila agreed to make clean songs and at that time he released a religious album. Then after a short while Chamkila's brain messed up again and he once again started singing dirty songs. Any respected person would lower their head with shame after listening to the songs of Chamkila. On 8th March 1988, Amar Chamkila and his female vocalist Amarjot came to Mehsumpur to do a concert. Here Bhai Neka, Bhai Gurdeep Singh Deepa Heranwala and Bhai Paramjit Singh Pamma Bir attacked the duet. Amar Chamkila and Amarjot died on the spot and after this action no one dared to sing dirty songs."

Exactly. I don't think Jagmeet Singh is perfect, and I have a problem with some of the things he has said and done. But if he really would say or do anything for power, like Jagsaw Singh/West London Singh suggests, he would have been a mona. For anyone to overlook how much easier it would have been for him to advance in his career if he was mona (ESPECIALLY in something like politics, which is so dependent on popularity with the masses) is ridiculous.

You said "there is absolutely nothing wrong with any person wishing to cut their hair". No, there is something wrong with that. Obviously, the Khalsa are supposed to uphold certain standards, but that doesn't mean the rehat maryada does not apply to non-Khalsa Sikhs. All Sikhs should strive to live according the rehat maryada as closely as possible. To suggest that certain practices that are forbidden in Sikhi are somehow completely okay as long as they are done by a sehajdhari Sikh who has yet to take amrit is silly.

How many young amritdhari men are there? And how many young amritdhari women are there? Among Sikhs under the age of 40, there are probably two or three times as many amritdhari men as there are amritdhari women. Perhaps you would be happy if all the singhs who couldn't find amritdhari spouses just went through their lives without every getting married. Wouldn't that be great?

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I hope that Jaggi is found to be innocent and, moreover, does not have to waste months or years of his life locked away before such a conclusion is reached.

To get back on topic: Amarinder Singh and others have been claiming that Jaggi was arrested for his role in recent political killings. Based on everything I've read about this issue, that seems completely ludicrous to me, and I strongly suspect that Jaggi was being targeted simply for his online activism. (Amarinder's feelings are still hurt over his being prevented from campaigning in Canada due to a torture case being filed against him. I think this may be part of a larger goal of his to get back at the "Khalistani-sympathizing" NRI community that has made life more difficult for him.) Does anyone think that there is any chance that any of the accusations (or anything remotely like them) made against Jaggi are true? Regardless of whether or not they are true, there is no excuse for him being tortured and denied his basic rights. But I am keeping my fingers crossed that the allegations are false, because if any of them are true, it will weaken our ability to rally support from foreign govts to intervene in future incidents.

The relevance is has to the matter at hand has to do with a question someone else posed ("why would someone like jaggi who has been raising awareness of the Indian govt's atrocities against Sikhs risk going to Punjab, knowing the risk it might pose?). However, the question I was responding to was not particularly important in the larger context of what is going on. So yes, this discussion has probably gone on too long (and I've apparently hurt lots of people's feelings), so it should be closed.

You don't seem to understand the point that I am making. If someone who didn't know Sarbjit saw him in the street would they know that he is a Sikh? No. So he flies under the radar. Guru Gobind Singh mandated that his Singhs should be instantly recognizable. He did that for a reason. If you have an issue with that and think that it is meaningless or pointless, that is your choice.

Yes, let's not question anything that anyone does, as long as they have good intentions.

I fear that even if he is eventually set free, it will be after he has wasted precious months (if not years) of his life imprisoned. I am very glad that the UK sangat is engaged and using all of their resources to help Jaggi. As for the sangat in Punjab, I fear that they are disillusioned and consumed with other problems ...

I do not doubt that there are many Punjabis with hair cuts who have great respect for Sikhi. I'm sure the vast majority of monay are much better Sikhs than I am. But why is it offensive to simply refer to the fact that they have haircuts (without making any value judgment)? You say that Sarbjit Singh from Rajoanatv does not fly under the radar. That's not true. Unless you know him from his youtube channel or some other presentation he has made at some sort of Sikh related event, he flys under the radar as much as any other mona does. If you did not know who he was and saw him on the street, would you know that he is a Sikh? No. If I was walking down the street and saw him, I might guess that he was possibly Persian, Mexican, Turkish, Pakistani, Arabic, a Hindu/Muslim Indian, etc. That's why I say that monay fly under the radar. Only people who know them personally know that they are Sikh. When he feels like identifying himself as a Sikh, Sarbjit Singh Rajoanatv can tie a kesri or blue ramal, sit in front of a picture of Bhindranwale, and record his videos (he makes very nice, passionate videos, even if he does a sloppy fact checking). Other times, he can walk around and nobody who doesn't already know him will know that he is a Sikh. He can fly under the radar.

Thanks for your assessment. You've made it clear through your posts that you're a dimwit who lacks basic reading comprehension skills, is incapable of having a nuanced conversation about anything, and brings very little to the table beyond ad hominem attacks.

I think what is happening to Jaggi is horrible. I did not know who this guy was before this happened, but he seems like a decent guy, and I've appreciated the website that he made for a long time. I'm glad the Sikh community in the UK is mobilizing and putting pressure on the Punjab govt, and I hope he gets released soon. 1. How could I have made the same post and not mentioned the fact that he had a haircut? My point was entirely centered on the theory that this guy is can identify as a Sikh when he wants and fly under the radar when that is more convenient, PRECISELY BECAUSE HE HAS A HAIRCUT. So you are wrong, I could not have made the same post without mentioning that fact. Why do you have a problem with me using the term "mona"? And why are you saying that I am causing a division? Should we completely refrain from referring to any unique characteristics that people have in order to avoid "division"? I wish people would stop being so overly politically correct and sensitive. I merely referred to him as a mona. I did not follow that up with any value judgement. Should I be offended if someone refers to me as a Singh, or a Punjabi or a male or an American? Is anyone who refers to these aspects of my identity "causing a division"? 2. Yes, what you say is correct in theory. But in reality, any Sikh who has even a vague idea of what has occurred in Punjab since the late 1970s would know that India is a democracy in name only. Theory and reality are two different things. In theory, I should be able to walk around the worst slums in America at 3 am and not be worried that I'm going to get mugged because, you know, it's against the law to mug someone. In reality, only someone who lacks common sense would go out in that situation without an awareness of the risk they are taking. I agree with you that Sikhs need to take a long, hard look at at what they call their motherland and the lack of respect they get there.

1. Where did I say that we should not be protesting? Where did I say that I say that what happened to him is okay? You have put words into my mouth. 2. You say that "no one expects to be kidnapped in the middle of the day for airing your own opinions on a website in the "largest democracy" in the world". This statement is absurd. Anyone who has any familiarity with the human rights violations in Punjab over the last 40 years would know that such things can happen. What happened to Jaswant Singh Khalra?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Where did I suggest I was better than others for being a sardar? I was talking about something completely different. One poster asked why, given his background, Jaggi took a risk in going to India. ANY answer would be speculative, and I speculated that being a mona who doesn't deal with being identified as a Sikh 24/7, maybe he was not as vigilant as he should have been. Nowhere in there did i say anything about me being better than him or him being worse than me. You took what I said and completely twisted it and made it into something else. You call me a nindak, but you are a liar for lying about what I did and did not say.

Another poster posed a question: given his background, why would Jaggi take the risk in going to India? ANYONE who attempts to answer such a question is going to be assuming something. Nobody knows. I speculated based upon what I know about him. Any answer ANYONE would have given would have consisted of speculation. Obviously, nobody knows exactly what was going through his mind except him. Stop getting so emotional. We are just having a conversation on this form, and speculation and assumptions are going to form a part of any conversation, especially when such questions are posed.

I know why he got arrested. And I am not saying they targeted him because they thought "oh he is a mona so it makes him an easy target." I am saying that because he is a mona, and because he is used to being able to identify as a Sikh when it suits him and fly under the radar when it is inconvenient, he was not as vigilant as he should have been. Someone who goes through their entire life being identifiable as a Sikh every minute of every day, and experiences all of the baggage that that entails, is not going to have any illusions about what would await him in India if he was behind a website like neverforget84.

Jaggi Johal has a haircut. He is a mona. So he is used to the flexibility of being able to identify as a Sikh when it suits him, and fly under the radar and not be identified when it is inconvenient for him. How could he have anticipated that one day that flexibility would disappear?

Why are you making this about amritdharis supposedly believing they are superior? Amritdharis have nothing to do with it. Moneh go out of their way to discard their Sikh identity. Did amritdharis make them do that? Moneh are able to decide weather they wanted to outwardly identify as Sikhs, and they are apparently ashamed of looking like Sikhs since they opt not to. Finally, I am tired of moneh complaining about amritdharis discriminating against them. Yes, some amritdharis behave poorly. But moneh outnumber amritdharis 99 to 1. So why on earth do moneh act like they are some sort of persecuted minority?

Yup. Moneh want to associate with the Sikh religion when it is convenient for them, and keep a distance from anything having to do with Sikhi when it is not convenient for them. They will post images of gurus and shaheeds on facebook, and then disrespect singhs in real life simply for being singhs. If they feel so proud to be Sikhs, why do they go out of their way to remove their kesh and ensure that they will not be identified as Sikhs? Keeping kesh isn't something that requires much. As Sant Jarnail Singh said, if you simply do nothing, kesh will grow automatically.

Exactly. The votes of a small handful of Sikh have ZERO bearing on the outcome of the election.

How embarrassing is it that among the Punjabi film/music industry, you can't find a single sardar with a full beard? We need to stop blaming Bollywood. Even in "Pollywood", where Sikhs theoretically have control, they have not put forward any singhs.