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californiasardar1 last won the day on February 9

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  1. Refraining from killing innocent people and raping women is not "virtue signalling." What is the purpose of massacring innocent people who are taking a train to Pakistan? What threat do they pose? How is killing people who are already on their way out of country necessary to ensure your survival? If you think it is okay to kill innocent people who pose no threat to you, then you don't believe in Sikhi. If you think it is okay to kill children or rape women under any circumstances, then you don't believe in Sikhi. It is not that complicated.
  2. Having family members killed by a certain group of people does not justify killing innocent people who belong to that same group. It may be human nature to seek revenge against innocent people, but anyone who is truly interested in following the path of Sikhi needs to be above that. In many parts of West Punjab, Sikhs owned a majority of the agricultural land. Sikhs also could point to historic sites and Gurdwaras in West Punjab. Sikhs have little influence now, but they had built up a lot of goodwill with the British in the decades leading up to 1947. Sikhs were in a much stronger position then. If Sikhs had capable leaders who could take advantage of that goodwill and make the case for special consideration for Sikhs (beyond demographics), as was given to Jews, Sikhs could have gotten more.
  3. A skilled statesman would have been able to make a case for more of Punjab going to India based on factors aside from population. Anyone who follows principles of Sikhi would understand that committing violent acts against innocent, defenseless people is shameful. What is the purpose of slaughtering Muslims who are ON A TRAIN HEADED TOWARDS PAKISTAN? They were already leaving.
  4. The alternative would not have been to stay in Pakistan. The alternative would have been to have skillful, thoughtful, capable leaders who cold have preserved a larger chunk of Punjab to stay in India. The Sikhs did not have statesmen of the same caliber as Jinnah and Nehru. I already recognized that the Muslims in East Punjab had to be driven out somehow. There was no need to massacre Muslims who were ALREADY trying to leave, there was no need to kill children, and there was no need to rape women. It is extremely shameful that Sikhs committed such crimes.
  5. "Successful"? I don't think that is the right word to describe a sad episode in which: - A large proportion Sikhs were displaced - Sikhs went from a wealthy substantial minority who were major players in a massive province to a less wealthy barely-majority in a tiny, truncated state - The Sikh community ended up completely separated from many important historical sites and Gurdwaras I also don't think "outsavaging" Muslims is something to be celebrated. Forcing people to leave when your people on the other side the border have been forced to leave is one thing. It can be justified in some sense as an exchange of population/property that was forced on us and was the only viable option. Coldly murdering people who were ALREADY leaving to Pakistan, killing children, raping women, etc. That is extremely shameful, plain and simple.
  6. If the world needs to unite against some sort of common enemy, it really does not matter whether or not Sikhs are a part of that. If the rest of the world can't win without Sikhs, they will not win with Sikhs. The Sikh community is tiny, has no organization, no clout, no influence, nothing. If you guys occasionally stepped foot outside of Southall or Wolverhampton or Brampton, you would realize that.
  7. Frankly, I am disgusted by both sides and I am tired of so much of the media's attention being focused on a relatively tiny number of people fighting over a tiny sliver of land. I wish Sikhs would stay out of these issues. We have nothing to gain by sticking our necks out when: 1) neither side is in the right, and 2) neither side cares about our issues.
  8. Sure. But it might be a situation where we take a step back to eventually take two or three steps forward. In any case, it seems to be a matter of "when" rather than "if." Jatt families in India seem to have few children these days, a large proportion of the young people are in foreign countries, and most of the young people who are still in Punjab dream of going to a foreign country (even if they can't tell you the first thing about the foreign countries they obsess over).
  9. I actually think that the exodus of Sikhs from Punjab may be a blessing it disguise. It may have the unintended consequence of "de-jatt-ifying" Sikhi. Maybe if jatts become a small enough proportion of Punjabi Sikhs, they will no longer dominate, and it will open the door for a more open, diverse Sikh community that is unconstrained by tribal identities and has a real potential for growth.
  10. - Agriculture is no longer the dominant industry in Punjab. The dominant industry is surely IELTS test prep. Seriously, everywhere I looked, in every village or town or roadside, there were advertisements or offices for services to assist with IELTS prep, obtaining a study visa, etc. It is impossible to overstate how obsessed the typical Punjabi is with going abroad. - It is extremely rare to come across a Sikh man with an untrimmed beard that is not gray or white. Basically everywhere I went, I was the only person with an untrimmed beard who wasn't a bajurg. - While I expected the lack of young Singhs based on my last visit, this time I noticed a conspicuous lack of young people in general. Pinds were filled with big, mostly empty houses (in most cases, nicer houses than I will ever be able to afford in America) with a couple of elderly people living in them. Mind you, I am not talking about pinds near Jalandhar whose residents have been going abroad for a century. I am talking about pinds in the "backwards" parts of southern Malwa. Also, I was at a (smallish) wedding reception, and when I glanced at the dance floor, I noticed that it was 95% aunties in their 50s and 60s. - To the extent that you still see a fair number of paghs around, it comes down to two things: 1) there are a lot more old people than there are young people, and 2) the bhaiyas working in the fields like to keep their heads covered. - Today's Punjabis speak a different language than my parents. They use different kinds of Punjabi/Hindi words for certain things than my parents did, and they constantly insert English words into Punjabi sentences (even when there are perfectly good Punjabi words they could use). They also abuse English words. For example, if they say someone easily gets "mixed-up," they don't mean to say that they get easily confused. They mean that that person "mixes well" socially with others. They also say things in cringe-worthy ways like: "tension naa lai." - Somehow, every person I came across who remotely knew of my family also knew I was unmarried and knew of some kuri who was interested in acquiring a green card ... I mean, interested in marrying me.
  11. exempts turban-wearing Sikh motorcyclists from wearing helmets. You may also want to see how your beloved right-wing bedfellows feel about various other exemptions that have been granted to Sikhs. Maybe you will get a reality check.
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