MrDoaba

I believe there may be three or four Gurdwaras in Leicester who hold sham marriages. Guru Amar Das Gurdwara, LE2 3AN - This one is the notorious one you are thinking of, I think. The other ones being: Guru Panth Parkash Gurdwara, LE2 6AA - Definitely used to carry out sham marriages, probabaly still do. I was led to believe they were very opposed to stopping them. Guru Nanak Gurdwara, LE1 4LJ - Definitely used to carry out sham marriages, probably still do. Gurdwara Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji, LE2 5LG - Definitely used to carry out sham marriages especially the secret ones at weird times of the day, not sure if they still do. And regarding Leamington and Warwick Gurdwara, it is one of the most corrupt Gurdwaras I have ever seen. Current and past committee members have been of extremely low and Adharmic character. In general most apne living there do not give two sh1tes about Sikhi. Alice Way Hounslow is the Reformist Church of Gurdwaras.

LOL you’re deluded. If you learn your history and get your facts from dubious websites like SikhiWiki that are filled will bakwaas edited by any Tom, D1ck or Harry then there is no hope for you. Gandhi taking non-violence off the Sikhs???? LOL! Probably the most ridiculous baseless statement I’ve heard all year. It is well known that he lambasted Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji as well as other personalities from Indian history such as Marathi Maharaja Shivaji and Rana Pratap Singh for using violence. That was one of the reasons his own demise was a violent one. That article is probably written by an id1ot like you. The only story widely accepted is the one that Gandhi stole the idea of non-cooperation from the Namdhari Kuka Movement who were notoriously violent. Non-cooperation and non-violence are two different things. Why don’t you go and read about Gandhi first. He was heavily influenced by Jains. Jainism developed the concept of Ahimsa. You need to take a basic History class and a basic Religious Studies class. This is my last post to you. It's senseless telling you anything when you clearly have no idea about any of these subjects and use extremely questionable sources. Probably a troll.

Your immaturity shines through your post. Your childish frustration is made apparent. Especially since you removed the sh1te link you based your understanding of Ahimsa on in your OP then later reposted it when it suited your wishy washy interpretation of Sikhi. I didn’t say SGGS/Gurmat prohibits “utilisation of too many capital letters or exclamation marks”, you did when you said Ahimsa is a part of Gurmat. I was pointing out your lack of understanding. Stop quoting rubbish articles and show real evidence. Stop basing your ridiculous interpretations of Ahimsa on that article. The concept of Ahimsa rejects violence in its ENTIRETY. Whether towards innocents OR enemies. It is complete non-violence no matter what the situation. Stop basing your interpretation of Ahimsa on an article by Wasp’s. Think before you associate that term with Sikhi. Your immaturity has kept you from differentiating between Daya, Sarbat da Bhala and Ahimsa and displays your pagal puna interpretation of Dharam and Sikhi. Sikhi delivers Daya either by peaceful means or violence, which ever is necessary. Go and read Sikh itihaas to comprehend this. Go and learn what real Ahimsa is and stop destroying the names of our Gurus and Shaheeds. You have forgotten the beauty of Sikhi and the concept of Sant-Sipahi. Ahimsa is not a part of Sikhi and never will be. You have stated English is your mother tongue so you need to realise that it was in fact you who couldn’t afford to be civil with your OP. In case you’ve forgotten capitals and exclamation marks imply you are shouting. And the fact English is your mother tongue is exactly the reason you’re interpreting deep Indic concepts immensely wrong. For the love of God stop quoting that gandh in huge letters. I've already said that website and article is not the sole authority on Sikhi. Bari muse di lagdi.

It was a joke vey. Chill.

Adding to the above you need to understand the word Dharam. The title of the video is incorrect. In reality there is no “Sikh” Dharam, “Hindu” Dharam, “Jain” Dharam, and “Buddhist” Dharam. We say it when we’re doing Veechar but technically it’s wrong. There is only one Dharam but many paths/panths under the banner of Dharam all with merits and demerits except for Sikhi. Sikhi is flawless. This is why we say Sikhi is Nyara Panth. All these other paths/panths have their own idea what Dharam is, many could be similar and many are vastly different but Sikhi is the one which Vaheguru indeed desires. I should add, in my book Christianity, Islam and all the rest of them do NOT come under the banner of Dharam. They are all Adharam. Others may hold differrent views.

Lol non-violence in words so why are you typing in capitals and putting so many exclamation marks? You just went against Gurmat. And no it doesn't play a significant role in Khalsa Philosophy. If you subscribe to philosophy of Ahimsa you cannot use any form of violence for any purpose. Sikhs should take their Kirpana off and replace them with hippy flower garlands and get rid of Dasam Granth by your logic. Sarbat da Bhala isn’t the same as Ahimsa otherwise Mahraaj would have just said Ahimsa. Like that website is exactly the sole authority on Sikhi. Have you seen the references for that piece of sh1te article? Exactly the kind of people who watered down Sikhi in the past and the same who water it down today turning us into pacifists. Use your dimaak. It doesn’t mean if the philosophy of Ahimsa encompasses Daya that Daya is Ahimsa. Muslims believe in praying but so do Sikhs, does that mean we should go and do Namaaz now? Your immaturity is astonishing.

It's hard to explain Indic concepts with English words bro. Daya is much deeper than its English equivalent word 'compassion', same goes for Ahimsa. Try to find Katha on Daya and read up on Jain Dharam for the latter.

In short it means non-violence, do a Google for more info bro. That fudu Ghandi spread the concept, he was completely ignorant about Dharam Yudh. It's probably the reason the pacifist attitude is so prevalent today.

I think the 5 virtues of Sikhi should be used in this analogy, not Ahimsa Phen Ji. Ahimsa has no place Gurmat.

@jkvlondon At least you realised they are sexy.

Your post is good but you mentioned Ahimsa. The concept of Ahimsa is not exactly Gurmat, in fact I would say it is completely against Khalsa values.

Will post soon brother.

Harsharan Veera hit the nail on the head with his post but I must respond to your idiotic post. Either you’re trolling all of us or your ik number da id1ot or both. How old are you? Because you have the intellect of a five year old. Probably running around with a Khalistan Zindabaad t-shirt on without knowing the first thing about politics. From where in any of my posts led you to think I don’t accept 5 kakaar, Anand Kaaraj Maryada or Akhand Path Maryada???? If that’s what you got from my posts then your reading comprehension skills need some serious work. Just so you know 5 kakaar as we know them today are not mentioned in any Puratan books but this does not mean I do not accept them. Lol Matha Tek is symbolic; you are showing Mahraaj you are lower than them and symbolically placing the Lekha on your forehead and hands at Mahraajs Charan. We symbolically lower ourselves before the True Guru. If you don’t understand symbolism then you’re an idi1ot. Do not say my Jeevan is full of filth when filth is coming out your mouth like the way it comes out the backside of a wild dog. If you think I attacked Gurmat then it’s your Manmat which made you believe such bakwaas. What’s my username got to do with Gurmat??? By that logic you should be doing Yudh instead of spreading rubbish. In case you haven’t noticed this is a forum. An internet forum where there are no actions, only words. Obviously you’re a pillock otherwise you would understand this. You would do well under Sharia Law. Pagal kisse javaane da.

Phen Ji please read my post carefully and understand the context. I certainly do not live in a bubble. Your post is pretty much what I was saying. What I said was meant to be taken in the context of an ideal world and ekta in the Panth. I made it clear when I said “Prachaaraks and Kathakaars should have been spreading Gurus Mahraajs message in Mandirs by now”. And also by my Singh Sabha comment. And in regards to preaching in Mandirs, well my view is a little different, probably slightly, and I mean slightly, Sanatan-ish.

If we weren't so Hindu-phobic and more accepting there would far more Sikhs than there currently are both Sehajdhari and Amritdhari. Prachaaraks and Kathakaars should have been spreading Gurus Mahraajs message in Mandirs by now to put people on the right path and to teach them what true Dharam is as laid out by Dhan Guru Mahraaj par aaj kal asi sare ik doosre de naal lar de ah khe swaa badle. Such is the legacy of Singh Sabha.

Phen Ji, I understand but I believe Sant Mahapurkh studied these Granths to help do arth of Bani. Don't quote me on it but I've heard one branch of Taksaal teach the Puratan Granths before one begins to study Gurbani. We cannot say that what they learn does not flavour thier Katha and Veechar. This is actually one of the main reasons of why Jathebandis fight. Major differences in interpretation. By me saying this it is reason for much abuse on this forum. I do not support any Jathebandi or Samparda, instead I respect all of them and all the different interpretations they bring to the Panth, this helps us become better Sikhs and we become better at contemplation.

Sangat Ji, Only five days left to donate! Please donate whatever you can and help get this film made!

@Thanatos ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥

Veera why make a post in such gussa? If you look at Puratan sources the Kara is not actually mentioned nor are 5 Kakaar as we know them today. Although having said this, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wear a Kara. You are making Gurbani to be 10 Commandments or Sharia Law with comments such as “bowing down is instruction given to the Sikh through Gurbani”. Bowing or doing Matha tek is entirely symbolic. Please use logic. Again I must say that we should all do Matha Tek to Guru Mahraaj and also if one wishes to, to Sant/Mahapurkh/Gurdev/Ustaad/Elders. Please show me where phere are teaching from Guru Sahib. In fact some Gursikhs think that in Puratan days, phere were not done. Again, I am not against phere. Please show me where Guru Mahraaj says Jyot as we do today is a teaching. Once again, I am not against Jyot. I am not forcing my view on anyone. I am simply trying to show that people should not be such narrow minded Kattarpanthi-Shariapanthi-Singh Shabaiya idiots. Let’s use your broken logic...you said “Hi Mr. Doaba”; Veera this is anti-Gurmat as Mahraaj has stated to say Fateh to your fellow Sikh not Hi. Aah dekhya tuahdi tooti footi soch da...bara Kaljug da Gyani.

Veera I’m afraid I have to say agree to disagree. You are taking our discussion in the wrong direction. Our views are very different. I see that you have posted “audio proof”. At the risk of being hated upon I have to say while I respect all Mahapurkh I unfortunately do not take all their speech as Christian 10 Commandments. Such thinking has confined Sikhi to a box so small that we can no longer think and contemplate ourselves. And also Veera it takes a Brahmgyani to know a Brahmgyani so do not say things such as “proof”. Only Guru Mahraaj are infallible. Also note Sant Ishar Singh Ji were from the Nanaksar Jatha and this Jatha promotes using Guru Nanak Dev Jis image as a point of focus when meditating, many would consider this as anti-Gurmat. Will you take this into consideration? Thanatos Ji I have not presented any Gurbani as such is pointless unless one has undergone intense Santhiya and understands the arth of Bani. Translations do no justice. I can easily copy and paste Shabads to make random points seem legitimate. You bring up Dasam Bani but such Pavitar Bani can only be understood after undertaking intense Gyan Vidya. Many people mistake Dasam Bani, worshiping and respecting are two different things. Veera I don’t need that thread to remind me of how strong my family bond is but rather that thread has reminded me as I’ve grown up of how pyaari my cousin sister is to me, remember she is long distance. Forgive my ignorance but as far as I’m aware Raksha Bandan is not mentoned in any Dharmic Granths. I think you are mistaking the tying of a Rakhri for a “Mauli” thread. Whether or not Mahraaj took part in such rituals, only Vaheguru knows. Again this is illogical. My whole point is one can bring up many ridiculous questions which make many, many things seem anti-Gurmat with the logic you are using.

Thantos Veera if you do not wish to wear a rakhri then refrain from doing so. My post in no way meant to state that it is fundamental to celebrate it. Rakhri is a two way street if both parties are not sincere in their heart then celebrating Rakhri is indeed pointless. If the celebration of Rakhri brings no benefit to an individual then it is also pointless. In your case it probably is. I’m not forcing Rakhri on anyone as I do not indulge in Talibanisation. I have one rakhri tied on my wrist which has been sent to me by a cousin sister from India. She has sent one every year since I was little. We rarely see each other. Someone has made an effort to make a point that their relationship with me is important so I simply wish to honour this. When I receive that rakhri in the post and then have it tied I feel humbled that I am lucky enough to have a strong family bond and it invokes strong feelings of pyaar. Having said that one can say this is promoting Moh to which I will reply I am not Bramhgyani and currently these feelings are somewhat important to a moorakh like me. Maybe this will change in time but I can say for now Rakhri has definitely benefited me. I should add my own sisters do not celebrate Rakhri and that is their choice. I have no problem with this. There are many things Mahraaj didn’t take part in that we do today. This is an illogical argument. I believe there isn’t any reference to Rakhri in any Puratan Granths. You should also remember we all see the world in a different light and all our brains work differently. Two people may interpret a Shabad differently etc. Forcing one to believe what you deem correct is Talibanisation. If we approach everything with strict interpretations then how would anyone learn? Contemplation would go out the window and the essence of Veechar would be lost. Like Harsharan Veera said above, let us widen the horizons of our minds. And Veera read my post carefully; I did not say that Amrit itself was symbolic but merely the idea of Pahul. It’s a symbolic initiation of the Sikh to his Guru. If there are any references to sacred or religious threads in Gurbani then one should first go and find out the purpose and meaning of those threads in the Mat they're used in. There are many types sacred and religious threads and all hold different meaning so please remember this when quoting Gurbani and also remember the context of the Shabad. On a lighter note, I once learned something valuable from the wrapper of some supposedly sacred thread. There was a quote on the wrapper which was as follows: “Jahan Puja Dharam...Vahan Saraswati Param.” This loosely translates to “Where there is worship and Dharam...At that place knowledge is supreme”. Bhul Chuk Maaf

From what I’ve heard the early Dera followers didn’t go for just spiritual rewards. They were usually desperate people offered money and/or helped out of difficult situations. If you mix this with a spiritual and religious slant then you can imagine the simple minded folk going into ‘Vah Vah!!’ mode. These people essentially became the prachaarks by saying "Flanna Babe de Dera to sabh kuch mil da!!" etc. And from there the Dera starts building up a following. They probably help out desperate people now and again to maintain their 'Vah Vah!!' factor. Also take into consideration that nowadays some of these Deras are pretty top notch places with good accommodation and they create this positive serene close knit community atmosphere which people thirst for. Deras have ripped off Mahraajs core concept of Sangat and capitalized on it big time, very accepting of all types of people, something seemingly lost on us! They have also in many ways recreated what life was like in Punjabi villages in the days of old but with all the mod-cons. The materialistic and nostalgic factor has a strong allure, especially these days. If you add all this up and chuck in the promised Phal you’re gonna receive one can easily see why Deras are so popular. If you ever get a chance visit one and you’ll see what I mean. Deras are like a retreat/holiday bro. Obviously the rampant casteism and generally shitty situation in Punjab doesn’t help either. They’ve taken concepts which Guru Mahraaj teach us but replaced the theology with their own rubbish.

Next year the thread title will be “Does wearing a rakhri mean I support RSS?” A lot of apne need to take a few Benadryls because they’ve got a serious Hindu allergy. Rakhri is NOT a religious ceremony anyway. Why people can’t understand that symbolic practises are not anti-Gurmat is beyond me. One must understand that symbolic practises and rituals are criticized in Gurbani as people had started to believe that the rituals alone had spiritual benefit. If we follow Gurbani then we wil not fall into this trap. But by using the logic that xyz is anti-Gurmat and an empty ritual then many things in Sikhi would need a serious overhaul. Other aspects of our lives would also need rethinking. When we get into this frame of mind you can ask whole load of ridiculous questions. You can see how quickly it becomes pagal puna to ask such bakwaas: Many people wear a thin Kara so the Kara has become symbolic. Should we stop wearing them? Why matha tek? It’s only symbolic. Why do palle da rassam before Anand Karaj? It’s only symbolic. Hell why even do phere around Mahraaj during Anand Kaaraj. Why do we have white chadaraan at the Gurdwara? It’s just a symbolic way of Mahraaj calling us the Sadh Sangat so we don't really need them. Why have jyot at the Gurdwara? And you can’t say because ghyio purifies the air because jyot these days is always in a small cabinet tucked away in a little corner. It’s just symbolic. Tbh why do we even have Akhand Path maryada? Much of it is symbolic. What’s the point of the Khanda? It’s just a symbol isn’t it? Similarly why does Nihang Fauj wear Aad Chand? Just another symbol isn’t it? Why have Amrit Sanchar? It’s just symbolic. Why did Guru Sahiban do the rituals and symbolic practises when passing on the Gurgaddi? It was just an empty ritual and symbolic!! Will people now go and question Mahraaj?! Why did Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Mahraaj wear a Kalgi? It’s only symbolic of being a King. Will we now question Mahraaj?! The above are just a few obvious questions that can be asked but if we keep going, as I once read, we will firmly end up in Kala Afghanas camp. The missionaries are attacking Sikh left, right and centre by posing similar questions but about the fundamental concepts of Sikhi. Please stop this Talibanisation of Sikhi Sangat Ji.