jss

the easiest way to beat the bhausaria mindset isn't actually to call these so-called scholars out... there's no need for debate, or even discussion or conferences....that's where all the doubts actually get made...even if you succeed at winning a person over....the whole experience of it will put doubts in someone's mind...someone else will go and think about harder points to disprove..and so on... the easiest way to beat the mindset is to stop harping on being such knowledgeable sampardas, stop harping about how sants are great (which i fully believe, dont' get me wrong)...and actually take the giyaan from the sampardha, follow what the sant mahapursh say about living a gursikhi life, follow guru sahib, do your naam kamaaieee, adopt the virtues of the gurmukhs, rid ourselves from out baser instincts... i was watching a lecture by a certain missionary professor...and more than what he was saying, was the vibrations i was getting from him...the look on his face....he was uptight, no spiritual glow of peacefulness, no happiness, no shukrana...everything was kitabi giyaan and that too from i don't know which kitaab...he seemed soo upset the whole time he was talking... then i look at singhs who've done sadh sangat with pooran mahapurkhs...and i'm not just talking about singhs who claim to do sangat with them/not pakhandis...but singhs who have done sangat....these guys don't even have to go and do parchar...they just are full of peace and love and aatmic giyaan... you are instinctively drawn to them and sit with them....tthey don't need to carry posters saying...i'm from this samparda or that ...or i did sangat of this mahapurkh or that... you can simply feel the difference on their faces... if we just live the parchar we wish to do ...that is more than enough...

Actually, the conclusion, based on all the points brought up in the thread would be... Sikhi doesn't specificlly state whether to wear jewellery or not. It is a matter of personal choice. If you feel that wearing the jewellery doesn't affect your ability to simran, seva, sangat and doesn't make you unbalanced in your thoughts, then it would be fine for you. There are people here who are not at an avastha where they can wear jewellery and thus don't wear it...some go as far to call it pointless and ugly..that is there perogative... and simple singhni....you told someone not to wear jewellery cuz you think it looks crap...what if someone thought someone's damalla looked like crap? someone's outfit? someone's car... people like you are the prime example of hypocritical "gursikhs" who claim that all this physical beautifying is wrong, but then turn around and make comments on the "look" of it...

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh, Just wanted to point all the sangat to a new website that's been launched... www.gurbanivichar.com this website is dedicated to converting Bhai Jaswant singh ji's (aka Bauji) punjabi and english lekhs on gurbani vichar to a format that's accessible via the website. The website is still in the works and new content is being added. Also, the sevadaars have uploaded the MP3 audio kathas of bauji which are accessible for all to hear and take lahaa from... enjoy the gurbani vichar done by gurmukhs..

I've grown up doing sadh sangat with saints pretty much my whole life in canada and visiting india for samagams... To be honest..i never heard about Bausaria or even the so-called "nangs" until i started visiting the forums... Although i totally disagree with the bausauria interpretation where they question the need for saints, where they question bani in guru granth sahib and where they question the bani of dasmesh pita.... i can understand why people aren't convinced by the sampardaic arguments....for which the main argument i see time and time again is LINEAGE....i think that is a load of bullocks... i mean...if an organization has been around since the time of guru sahib...that really doesn't mean much at the end of the day, besides the historic significance...we have seen members of these sampardas meeting with RSS representatives... we have seen sant samaj remain quiet on issues of some so-called saints who have been accused of doing some atrocities (whether true or not...but as a samaj, i believe it's their responsibility to be vigilant and conduct proper investigations) and a lot of the answers to questions are "because sant ji (pick whichever mahapurkh) said so" Such explanations will work for shardalus...someone tells me mahapursh said something i will do deep vichar on it and try to see where mahapurkh was coming from..and if i still don't see it...i won't say they're wrong, but leave it aside for the moment, hoping that in time and experience i may understand the bachan of that mahapurkh...but i am like this because i have done sangat of mahapurkhs... to those people who have not done the sangat of mahapurkhs, and are not accustomed to the relationship between mahapurkhs and shardalus...simply saying that sant ji said it....won't work for them....we have to explain what the mahapurkhs have said...and make it relevant to their questions.... i don't see that happening in the vast majority of cases... i have a lot of respect for sampardas and everyone who lives and does parchar of simran, seva, sangat....but at the same time...i feel that "students" of these sampardas always push a "sampardaic agenda"...i don't think it's necessary....you can still do the parchar that goes on in sampardas wihtout pushing samparda in everyone's face...because human nature isn't always to pay attention to the good you are saying, but what they can find fault in it.... if you are okay with that then there is no change required....but if you're truly sincere about getting rid of the bhausauria mindset...we need to change to a more effective tactic... in fact....i personally think writing or talking against "the other side" creates more problems than solves things....people here are talking about missionaries and bhausauria and how the psycho profs....none of that is necessary...all we need to do is live the life that our gurus preached, take inspiration from the jeevans of mahapurkhs...and spread that nanak love... no one beat nanak love...it has never been done...and never will be done...

rimmel... i don't understand where you're coming up with looking like the guru...it has nothing to do with that...i suggest you re read my post...i am positive that my reasoning is not for looking like the guru...please go over it again...the importance of the hair is outlined...and also..when talking about hair...i will always include the guru in it...because the hair is His... also read the passages that i've typed up from Prof Puran Singh ji's books...i do believe he delivers a highly sophisticated and loving message...one that i cannot come close to conveying... also ...i understand your point about line possibly being a metaphor... but i've done sangat with mahapurkhs who say differently...they say yes..it can be taken metaphorically...but that it is also true that when you reach the stage of the gurmukh even the hairs will do simran.. i have also heard of a sakhi, maybe one of the students of taksal can confirm, that one time when sant kartar singh ji was in the hospital...everytime the doctor put the stethoscope down on his body, he heard waheguru simran going on...and he asked sant ji about it..and he said...yes...you'll hear it through every rom on this sareer (may not be exact wording...but that's how i remember it) i'm not saying that this is the Sikhi reason...but it definitely does tie kesh in with spirituality...which is what you were looking for..right? for a reason other than that it isn't needed to cut hair?

taken from that passage entitled The Sword of Guru Gobind Singh: When He touched my hair and blessed me, how could I bear my hair being shorn? The Sikh is the dedicated. I nestle the fragrance of His though in my tresses. I am the bride. They, of the modern era, have bobbed the bride but the Sacred Braids of Christ still remain the most beautiful adornment of man's or woman's head. I love the Guru's superstition. The lightning spark is concealed in the wool of the wandering cloud in the sky and the life spark of the Guru is hidden in this sheaf of hair. They say it is troublesome to carry it. but more troublesome is a life of no inspiration. The body itself is not less troublesome. The daily toilet, poweder and puff and rogue, and pearlcaps, and arranging of ear drops and shingles is in no less troublesome. And when one is reconciled to such a thing as the human body, to such a thing as this impossible life, it is emptiness of soul, it is the bankruptcy of love for God and Guru to think of the riddance of Hair, the spiritual crown of humanity. The modern woman, as i have said elsewhere, has lost most of her soul by shingling her hair and putting an odourous reed on her rode-bud-like lips.

nother beautiful passage by Prof Puran Singh Ji, entitled Under a Hank of Hair, in the chapter of Discipleship: The Guru has buried the disciples under heaps of grass. He has concealed His handicraft in a hank of hair. Very irrational, they say. Possibly very superstitious. but superstitions preserve the life sparks more effectively than the reason of man. In the fleecy clouds is lightening. In our superstition of hanks of hair there is truth of His burning bosom divine. Christ in his Bride-braids is certainly more beautiful even as a man, as a woman-born, than a cleanshaven modern American face which is more in the image of the Dollar than of the sweet Jesus who is the comfort of so many distressed souls. The pendulum would swing. Fashions would give way to Love again. God would replace the Dollar, or elsewhere shall be the Man's Art, which is more of that lyrical leisure divine, of soul, of love. This haste, this machine-like man is far removed from His self, the Great Guru love. Our truth, unlike that of the old Brahman, is not of any mathematical balance of an endless denying of things. Our Truth is not a problem solved. Our Truth is but a lotus and the bee buzing about, the cloud and the rain-bird crying for that pearl-like drop of life, the swan and the lake, the child and the mother, the cow and the calf. Our hymns centre round these metaphors and all human suffering is vindicated in a moment of this transitory Union, even if it be after ages. Meeting Him dispels all sorrow, but it is all sorrow without Him. His absence is as holy as His presence. And countless such living statues of Holy Simran, of Live's inspiration filling the whole Temple of this earth and its domes and galleries and diffusing the atmosphere of the individual peace into the crowned universe of such statues, is the Ideal of the Divine Society of men made angels by the Grace of His Love. Assuredly in this kingdom of dream and vision, there is no place for duality, hatred and harm, so deeply ingrained in the animal man. O Sikh young men! rise and fill yourselves with this Glory. It makes you noble, bold and free, self-drunk, selfless, flower-like, sun-like. It sweets you and your sweetness sweetens all life around you. At your sight, the lamb and the tiger must drink at the same pool. Perpetual spring must roll in you. You shall be the moral influence radiating peace, good-will, friendship, fellowship, life, vigour, vitality, in short, spirituality. You shall live in perpetual blossom, reconciled to be the sorrow of life in a thousand new ways every day. Be ye a revelation to the world of man, of the gods that live in your hearts. Seekers after God retire to the woods. Show them they need not go to the woods, for the Guru made you the woods. Seeing you, you yourself, the very peace of the woods, the freshness of the little rivulets chiming through them should come to all. Your tresses shall provide the shade of the woods and their mystery.

the passage entitled Our Long Tresses, taken from the chapter The Garden of Simran: Don't you know these tresses of ours are the wandering waves of the sea of illusion? Guru Gobind Singh gathered the waves of the Ocean of Consciousness as the mother gathers the hair of the child. What is man but an ocean of consciousness. The master washed them, combed them and bound them in a knot as the vow of the future manhood which shall know no caste, not distinction between man and man, and which shall work for the peace and amity of spiritual brotherhood. He who wears His knot of hair is a brother to all men, freed of all ill-feeling of selfishness. He is to be on the bayonet's point to be of no separatist creed, no religion, nor of any national combine of men bent upon loot and plunder and the tyranny of subjugating other men. Those who do not yet understand the law of love cannot and should not wear the Master's knot of the sacred tresses and shoe who do should wear it as a token of spiritual isolation from the herd. So did Guru Gobind Singh comman. And obedience to him is life. There is no life outside the Great Love. The aim of the Brothers of the tress-knot off Guru Gobind Singh is different, different the direction, different their persuasion. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions of life. We glow like flowers on the thorny bed or on the bed of velvet moss with equal joy, for facing Him and living in Him and breathing Him is our life. And all who desire to be Brothers of the tress-knot of Guru Gobind Singh come and be. This is the life of love, not of any other truth. All other truths are of no concern to us! We are now the Sangha of the tress-knot of Guru Gobind Singh, our purposes are as inscrutable as those of the God of Destiny.

and yet another passage.... taken from that passage entitled The Sword of Guru Gobind Singh: When He touched my hair and blessed me, how could I bear my hair being shorn? The Sikh is the dedicated. I nestle the fragrance of His though in my tresses. I am the bride. They, of the modern era, have bobbed the bride but the Sacred Braids of Christ still remain the most beautiful adornment of man's or woman's head. I love the Guru's superstition. The lightning spark is concealed in the wool of the wandering cloud in the sky and the life spark of the Guru is hidden in this sheaf of hair. They say it is troublesome to carry it. but more troublesome is a life of no inspiration. The body itself is not less troublesome. The daily toilet, poweder and puff and rogue, and pearlcaps, and arranging of ear drops and shingles is in no less troublesome. And when one is reconciled to such a thing as the human body, to such a thing as this impossible life, it is emptiness of soul, it is the bankruptcy of love for God and Guru to think of the riddance of Hair, the spiritual crown of humanity. The modern woman, as i have said elsewhere, has lost most of her soul by shingling her hair and putting an odourous reed on her rode-bud-like lips.

Another beautiful passage by Prof Puran Singh Ji, entitled Under a Hank of Hair, in the chapter of Discipleship: The Guru has buried the disciples under heaps of grass. He has concealed His handicraft in a hank of hair. Very irrational, they say. Possibly very superstitious. but superstitions preserve the life sparks more effectively than the reason of man. In the fleecy clouds is lightening. In our superstition of hanks of hair there is truth of His burning bosom divine. Christ in his Bride-braids is certainly more beautiful even as a man, as a woman-born, than a cleanshaven modern American face which is more in the image of the Dollar than of the sweet Jesus who is the comfort of so many distressed souls. The pendulum would swing. Fashions would give way to Love again. God would replace the Dollar, or elsewhere shall be the Man's Art, which is more of that lyrical leisure divine, of soul, of love. This haste, this machine-like man is far removed from His self, the Great Guru love. Our truth, unlike that of the old Brahman, is not of any mathematical balance of an endless denying of things. Our Truth is not a problem solved. Our Truth is but a lotus and the bee buzing about, the cloud and the rain-bird crying for that pearl-like drop of life, the swan and the lake, the child and the mother, the cow and the calf. Our hymns centre round these metaphors and all human suffering is vindicated in a moment of this transitory Union, even if it be after ages. Meeting Him dispels all sorrow, but it is all sorrow without Him. His absence is as holy as His presence. And countless such living statues of Holy Simran, of Live's inspiration filling the whole Temple of this earth and its domes and galleries and diffusing the atmosphere of the individual peace into the crowned universe of such statues, is the Ideal of the Divine Society of men made angels by the Grace of His Love. Assuredly in this kingdom of dream and vision, there is no place for duality, hatred and harm, so deeply ingrained in the animal man. O Sikh young men! rise and fill yourselves with this Glory. It makes you noble, bold and free, self-drunk, selfless, flower-like, sun-like. It sweets you and your sweetness sweetens all life around you. At your sight, the lamb and the tiger must drink at the same pool. Perpetual spring must roll in you. You shall be the moral influence radiating peace, good-will, friendship, fellowship, life, vigour, vitality, in short, spirituality. You shall live in perpetual blossom, reconciled to be the sorrow of life in a thousand new ways every day. Be ye a revelation to the world of man, of the gods that live in your hearts. Seekers after God retire to the woods. Show them they need not go to the woods, for the Guru made you the woods. Seeing you, you yourself, the very peace of the woods, the freshness of the little rivulets chiming through them should come to all. Your tresses shall provide the shade of the woods and their mystery.

the reason why i wasnt saying much on the topic of hair earlier is that there is actually quite a lot to say on the topic... i did not want to commit the time to writing it all down here...you're not the only med student :lol: But alas, I get to read the words of saints yet again and be inspired... but here i will type out a passage from Prof Puran Singh ji's book...Spirit Born People... if you do not know of prof puran singh ji, he was a great saint and student of bhai sahib bhai vir singh ji who is himself known as the sixth river of punjab... the passage entitled Our Long Tresses, taken from the chapter The Garden of Simran: Don't you know these tresses of ours are the wandering waves of the sea of illusion? Guru Gobind Singh gathered the waves of the Ocean of Consciousness as the mother gathers the hair of the child. What is man but an ocean of consciousness. The master washed them, combed them and bound them in a knot as the vow of the future manhood which shall know no caste, not distinction between man and man, and which shall work for the peace and amity of spiritual brotherhood. He who wears His knot of hair is a brother to all men, freed of all ill-feeling of selfishness. He is to be on the bayonet's point to be of no separatist creed, no religion, nor of any national combine of men bent upon loot and plunder and the tyranny of subjugating other men. Those who do not yet understand the law of love cannot and should not wear the Master's knot of the sacred tresses and shoe who do should wear it as a token of spiritual isolation from the herd. So did Guru Gobind Singh comman. And obedience to him is life. There is no life outside the Great Love. The aim of the Brothers of the tress-knot off Guru Gobind Singh is different, different the direction, different their persuasion. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions of life. We glow like flowers on the thorny bed or on the bed of velvet moss with equal joy, for facing Him and living in Him and breathing Him is our life. And all who desire to be Brothers of the tress-knot of Guru Gobind Singh come and be. This is the life of love, not of any other truth. All other truths are of no concern to us! We are now the Sangha of the tress-knot of Guru Gobind Singh, our purposes are as inscrutable as those of the God of Destiny.

you're wrong... a gift is not the same thing as guru saying so...there is a very subtle yet crucial difference between the two...it needs to be understood...the two are two distinct approaches and reasons for keeping hair...

btw...rimmel... i never said to keep your hair cuz guru sahib said so... i said..it was his gift....i don't know about you...but i'll treasure anything that my guru has given me....just as a lover would treasure each and every token reminder of her beloved...

gurmukh rom rom har dhiavaay... the gumukh meditates on the lord with each and every hair... that one line would shows that hair vibrates with guru's naam...hence one reason not to remove our hair.. also...our hair was given as a kakkar by guru sahib when he blessed sikhs with khanday battay da amrit... our hair is meant to connect us to our guru...when we comb it, when we tie it up in our turbans and whatnot...it should remind us of who we are..to whom we belong...and who's simran we are to do... keeping our hair gives us a distinct physical identity that forces us to be true with ourselves...i cannot be doing karams that are not parvaaan by my guru and then go look at myself in the mirror and see His kesh...for we will see the Hair that belong to Him on our head...reminding us of our responsibilities, reminding us of our divine heritage.. prof puran singh ji and others write that once a sikh takes amrit...his hair is no longer his...but His...and we cherish the kesh because it is His... it's the bride wearing her husband's wedding ring...there is no inherent reason as to why she should keep the ring...except for the memory she has of his...if she looks at her ring and is reminded of her husband...that is to make someone present in spirit....otherwise known as practicing the presence...for that is what all us sikhs need to do....guru meray sang sadha hai nalaay, simar simar tis sadha samallaay....the Kesh that he blesses us with are meant to be a tool to help us do his Simran...by doing which helps us feel his presence with us at all times... this is but a small summary of the spiritual uniqueness of the gift of hair that guru sahib has bestowed his disciples with...i am sure we could discuss it further..and am sure more people could provide deep insight in to the relationship of hair and the spiritual path...

The question was about jewellery....but sikhi talks about naam... hence the relevance of naam being brought up in the discussion... also...naam was brought up in the discussion as the Techno singh who misused gurbani pangtis to try to show that sikhi is against jewellery, were actually talking about how everything we do, everything we wear to make ourselves beautiful is useless IF we do not have naam glowing in us....hence naam being brought up.... vichar was being brought up in the discussion because the answers being given to the original question were seriously LACKING vichar... just like your last post lacked any serious vichar on what i and others have said....hence vichar was brought up....i direct you to your own posts as well as post by akj_4eva_akj...where he gives a one liner on behalf of sikhi...hence vichar was being brought up.... nowhere in any of my posts have i gotten emotional or personal....nowhere have i insulted you or anyone... i called a comment you made stupid..for that is what it is...i called an argument that was made a load of fecal matter...if you attach your whole being to your arguments then i can see why you might take it personally...otherwise...you are upset that i provided a critical opinion on what you had written... you are the one who brought up Kesh...and then gave an INVALID, non gurmat based reason for keeping kesh....and then based your whole argument as an extension of that invalid reasoning... with your line of logic...someone could say that it is WRONG for someone to get a malignant cancer removed from their body...cuz it's the cells are growing, and many times there will be a recurrence of cancer...so if it's just going to come back..why get rid of it? notice how stupid the argument is? it's simply an extension of your argument... i hope you don't tell people in school that you don't cut your hair cuz there's no need to cut it...because that reasoning could be ripped to shreds by most people who listened to it...the reason for keeping kesh is a highly spiritual reason...the physical manifestation of a soul bride connected to her Lord-Groom...again.. if you come to understand the reason behind kesh...you might understand your argument against jewellery is at flawed

RImmell... you just said we don't cut our hair cuz there's no need.... waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru.... please do sangat with gurmukhs, please find their sanctuary and learn from khojis of gurbani... that is my benti to you as a veer.... the need for hair is explained through our gurmat ithaas and gurbani itself also talks about the role of hair... the hair is also a kakkar...a gift of our guru to his sikhs.... please do vichar and research into HAIR... read what bhai randhir singh ji has to say on the subject, read what prof puran singh ji has to say about hair, many gurmukhs have shared gurmat vichar about kesh... it is NOT..i repeat NOT.. kept because there is No need to cut it....it is KEPT because there is a NEED to Keep them...

what a stupid comment at the end of rimmel's post... "there is no need to do it, which is why you don't do it"....what a load of fecal matter.... if you don't think there's a need for it...then you don't have to do it...but to take the premise that there's no need for it...and arrive at the conclusion that therefore you (the general population of sikhs) don't do it....is unfounded... sometimes i wish the posters on forums would take courses on logical reasoning....our discussions would be a lot more fruitful.... also...rimmel...in asa di // guru sahib states this whole WORLD is KOOR...everything from our material wealth to the closest of relations....is all KOOR....have you thought about why he says this??? and at the same time he talks about BISMAADH... the key thing that changes everything from being koor...to being bismaadhi is naam... SIKHI TALKS ABOUT NAAAM....not petty dos and don'ts... sikhi talks about love and how to LIVE in love...that is what our rehit is based on...our rehit is a gift from our guru...not a set of ritualistic dos and donts it is erroneous and BLASPHEMY to try to make sikhi into a narrowminded "religion" that is against such a simple act of wearing jewellery... what i'm sure of is sikhi being against the practice of NOT DOING VICHAR ON BANI, then sitting at a computer and telling people what is okay and what isn't okay, without basing it on gurmat ithaas or gurbani.....almost reminds me of what pandits were doing when guru nanak graced the earth...

we need to encourage people to buy these dvds to support such a director who in my eyes is a true sikh in spirit....who saw the injustice in the world and using her cultivated talents as done her part to educate the world....i just hope that sikhs themselves will wake up from their slumber and go somewhere with this step... we should also buy copies and send them to our local political representatives...so they can see what happened...do showings in our universities

i think heera singh put it very nicely... by the way...Techno Singh....it is useless and i would even venture to say outright WRONG to post ilahi, sachkhandi bani in order to prove some point (which you don't really have) without doing vichar of the bani to show how it actually is relevant... the bani you have posted nowhere says it is wrong to wear jewellery...it is saying it is ALL useless IF the seed of naam doesn't not inhibit the body....without Naam everything is useles...With naaam, everything becomes beautiful.... so jewellery or not...is a PERSONAL CHOICE.... people are saying that it's wrong because it's not needed.....that's a very very childish argument... wouldn't stand up in any court in any land....well maybe in india...where everything is corrupt anyway... and to Akj_4eva_akj....to simply post and say "No cuz it's wrong" is a waste of your time and everyone else who had to read that post....a) because it was not a bright conclusion...b) you offered no giyaan from gurmat ithaas or gurbani to enlighten anyone... i konw you can do better than that...invite you to post bani with some vichar that says you're not allowed to wear jewellery...

http://www.akj.org/skins/one/books.php?ch=...d=3&start=4 scroll down to where it talks about Keski

this is perhaps one of my favourite books...anytime i'm off the track...which is often, reading this book again and again...even if it's just a random passage opened up...gives the seeker fresh inspiration and guidance... prof puran singh ji has also written several other very inspirational books which i recommend to everyone... spirit of the sikh Bride of the Sky Prakasina Chup Preet da shahen shah (this one is in punjabi..awesome read) oh and his autobiography...On Paths of Life....very interesting life....

this is true....if we look even at prof sahib singh ji's darpan...we will see it has nothing to do with keski... the promoters of the keski...MISUSE this line of ilahi gurbani to push their points...which this is wrong.. one site is the akj.org....in their literature section they use this line in the gurmat maryada points of contention article... i have nothing againt someone promoting keski....just don't misuse gurbani to do so... i hope our brothers inthe akj will look at this and consider researching that gurbani line in more depth and edit their literature accordingly.

I just wanted to add...that i believe we all need to take a deeper look at what LOVE is.. there is the popular saying that God is Love, Love is God... prof puran singh ji states that the Ultimate love is that between man and god...and that all other loves that we have in our lives is simply a manifestation of that One Great Love... it was Love that created this world....it is Love that sustains it...it is Love that recreates it... The writer is emphasizing love...and only love...that is because at the end of the day....there is NOTHING BUT LOVE our guru's maryada was a LOVE GIFT to his sikhs.... just as a groom gives a ring to his bride and the bride cherishes it out of her love for the groom... so the Guru has given his love gift to the sikhs who as His Soul Brides cherish their guru's ways, their guru's words, their guru's ornaments...as it is the physical manifestation of their deep inner connection (known in punjabi as aatmic leva devi)... now...imagine a scenario...where a bride sees an umarried women wearing the ring of a bride...and all her actions are those not of a bride...would the true bride not feel that the unmarried woman is Not a true reflection of a bride....EVEN IF her outer ornaments are even prettier than the true bride....it is the inner devotion, the inner love...the SELF SACRIFICING LOVE....that separates the bride from the umarried...separates the Suhagan from the duhaagan...only one of them is truly acceptable to the Husband Lord.... and true gursikhs, like the true brides...to them it is heart wrenching when they see the "religious" actions of those who have only filth in their heart....when they see so-called religous people who cannot look upon humanity with one eye as ordained by Guru Gobind Singh ji himself...when they see the love gifts of their guru being used as status symbols...when they see the blessed nitnem with which they repeat over and over in ceaseless love and yearning to truly understand everything written and to truly live it....when they see this beautiful nitnem used as a case of argument amongst "religous people" ....will only feel pained..and they will call such actions, such "maryadas" DEAD AND EMPTY RITUALS....the same actions that they themselves will repeat and hang on to with dear life for it is their way of communion with their husband lord... again going back to Love...love is a deep deep concept that we have not yet understood...for if we understood what love is..then there is no argument....the fact that we say ..oh such and such stressed too much on love...should make us reflect on what superficial level of understanding we have of love... we do not truly love unless we DIE in love....and dying is to lose our Self....this egoistic Self that separates man from man and man from god...this self must die in the great love, so that our souls can live forever in love...following guru sahib's hukam is symbolic of dying in love... we must all continue to read gurbani and live gurbani and do deep vichar of gurbani...if we don't...then we will not truly understand what any of these concepts are...and imagine leading a whole entire life of "religiousity" without truly knowing what it is...nor achieving anything... bauji in his tapes repeatedly used to say ...when you come to samagams....make sure you all die...don't leave before dying.... there is a very deep message in this saint's words...now if i didn't think about what he said in relevance to gursikhi or if i just took the words for the shallow understandings...i'd start thinking...oh no..this guy is crazy...he wants us to die or something...this is a weird cult.... if we read gurbani though, if we keep doing the sangat of the holy ones...the enlightened ones..who wiht their glances of love, with their chup preet, can stir our souls, can turn our concepts of right and wrong totally upside down....with their sangat...one realizes...that we must truly die in His love, to live forever in His love.... the whole of guru granth sahib talks about love...and where guru granth sahib tells us to do something or not to do something, guru sahib is telling us how to LIVE in LOVE....not telling us to do rituals or rites or argue and fight over maryada or judge each other by maryada...simply given us the way...outlined the Divine Hukam that has been established from the moment of creation in writing....such is the blessing of guru nanak... i hope this clears up the questions raised...i don't believe there is a need for anyone to be offended with any of the quetsions...it is good these questions come up...it gives us an opportunity to learn and do self reflection... my one cautionary note to everyone is...we shouldn't rush to say what is gurmat and what isn't if we are not totally clear on what we have read or seen...seek to get greater understanding of the subject at hand..and then under the sharan of gurbani...we can truly be enable and blessed with bibek budhi to decipher what is gurmat and what isn't gurmat... in fact....the consequences of what is written in bauji's article could be discussed to no end...everything that has been written has the practical application....case and point...so many of our dharmic institutions have been infiltrated by people who seek to destroy the truth given to humanity by guru nanak...lets ask ourselves how have they infiltrated??? is it because of our own ignorance of the message? is it because of our preoccupation with what is maryada and what isn't...i believe if we sikhs truly did gurbani vichar..we wouldn't be duped so easily... there is a lot more kirtans going on today than before....but when i talk to my fellow youth about listening to katha of gurmukhs or reading books by gurmukhs who have done khoj of gurbani who have lived the message of gurbani...i get a couple of answers...."veerji, i don't understand punjabi that well"..."veerji, i can't listen to someone speaking for that long and concentrate"...."veerji, i don't got time" ....i love this one... "veerji, i just ain't feeling katha"... "veerji, i just read sikhitothemax" note...sikhitothemax is a great tool..and i'm not ridiculing it...but if we choose to take that as the be all end all message of gurbani, then we will not get to experience gurbani for all that it is...i am sure the humble gursikhs that did seva of sikhitothemax will agree that it is a tool to be used to spring off of...not as the gospel...

mehtab veerji, i must correct you about prof puran singh ji, he never became a hindu in his life. .. he was born a sikh...upon going to japan..he met a buddhist mahapurkh...and got highly impressed with the teachings and became a monk... when he came back to india, he came into the sangat of a great saint, bhai sahib bhai vir singh ji and he felt that sikhi was his true path... this is all documented in his autobiography, entitled, On Paths of Life...i suggest you as well as others read it....an amazing short book... he was always opposed to what he called brahminism...you will see this opposition in many of his books, including spirit born people and spirit of the sikh... the buddhist influence is also seen in some of his books...primarily... Prakasina...a novel about a buddhist princess and a spiritual seeker named mahamanji...written entirely with a buddhist backdrop...it chronicles the spiritual journeys of these characters as well as others...again..another amazing book...probably a masterpiece...as he manages to explain and portray the spiritual truths that our great gurus delivered to the world without even mentioning the word "sikh" "sikhism"

great replys pheena veerji and namastang veerji... some of the other posters need to get beyond their paranoya and learn to see the spirituality in what is present...instead of just denying the truth...