Raju

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Sangat, plz do not turn this thread into brahmin bashing thread. On all others threads that is what is going on. :D let me devote this thread to exposing the western agenda vis a vis its former colonies or third world in general. thanks Google is your best friend Chatanga, and wiki is your personal assistant. Just look up boundaries of Mauryan Empire, Kushana Empire, Saka Empire, Naga Empire everything shall become clear to you. brahmins did not help muslims conquer India because the muslim were busy cutting off brahmin's heads as they kept invading new places. So you can't help those much who will keep cutting your heads at first sight. Can you ? :rolleyes: yes, they could have helped the Brits because they saw in the British their chance to get even with Muslim. In fact the British were used as a proxy by a lot of disaffected groups and people in India to get even with others. And boy did the British make use of this opportunity.

I disagree with you Kashmir contentions Bijla jee .. it cannot be compared to Gujarat. In Gujarat there was a Govt-sponsored pogrom. So the relief work for muslims was also affected by Govt bias. I have said on this forum before, if the Govt is a tyrant people need to be doubly careful. Never give up vigilance. I was not in India during Gujart riots time, so I can't give a first hand report. In Kashmir the main opposing force to Indian rule is the Valley Sunni musalman. For them it is a matter of supremacy of their faith and fanaticism rather than any kind of freedom. The Shia muslim who lives in Gilgit/Baltistant and who lives in the valley is much more favorably discposed towards India because they are mistreated in Pakistan. The Buddhists of Ladakh are pro-India as well. It is just the valley Sunni wahabbi muslim who wants to serve his Saudi master desperately who has this attitude. I have no tears to shed for them, because their accounts are full of hypocrisy. They are so full of hypocrisy that no one can even begin to sympathize with them. They eat Indian rations and rice at subsidized Rs. 2/kg and then call people from the plains as "these Indians". Their entire life is subsidized yet they have nothing but contempt to show. They have ethnically cleansed Kashmir just like Western Punjab was ethnically cleansed of hindu & Sikh. They are gonna have a really tough time removing the yoke of 'cruel India' from their back. For India intends to be very cruel with such people.

Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Nobody likes to sacrifice for a greater cause. Our ancestors who sacrificed in a previous generation, it is the fruits of their sacrifice that is being enjoyed today. Without hardship no good can come. There used to be a time when I also wished that there was a Christianstan where Indian Christians could live in peace .. there is a sense of joy that I derive from seeing the way Christmas is celebrated in Europe & North America. Don't you think my heart pines for such unsullied joy too. Believe you me I am a most lonely man during Christmas here in India, yeah I would love to be with my people. And celebrate my festivals to best of my ability and feel real joy. Why is it that anyone is sacrificing here ? well they call themselves Christian but they do not follow any tenets of Christianity. The WASP kind of Christian has always sought global dominance. I belong to the Eastern Orthodox variety and we have a record of living in peace with all our neighbours except muslims perhaps. Why should Indian govt give Kashmir to the Islamists ? Any victory for the Islamists is a victory for terrorism and prejudice. Why have they chased away hindus and all kinds of minorities away from Kashmir, why can't they live in peace with everybody and then cry Kashmiriyat then it will make more sense. Right now it is just an 'Islam is better than the rest' thing that is going on there. It does not have my support. Well in a sense I have to agree here, the Christians do have their own lands and countries. But Sikhs have none to call their own. But I have a sixth sense that states the Sikhism is in due for great things. Sikhs though have to be magnanimous and show a path to the rest of the world. Through behaviour, through attire, through devotion, through courage .. all these percepts have to be renewed every generation. Future India will be a Sikh nation.

>> lol wake up to the truth Raju, ofcourse God wants us to live in harmony but the majority of ppl on this earth are corupt and think of only them selves. >> Go tell that to existing countries. Indian government is responsible for this not Sikhs. We chose to live together in 1947 in case it skipped your mind. Or do you think Khalistan is another western "conspiracy"? Bijla Singh je, Surban je the world today is corrupt and isn't that why we call it Kalyug ? Now part of the blame can be put on the ordinary people who exhibit signs of corruptedness, but part of it is also signs of the times that we live in. If the time/age is corrupt, can we expect ordinary people who grew up in these times to be symbols of purity and uncorruptedness. It is written in Bible in Revelation, that during the end of the ages "Man will wonder hither and man will wonder tither in search of peace and goodness" but he shall find it in no place. Every place shall show him a mirage of peace and goodness only to later realize after the destination has been reached that this place was no better than the last one. there is no perfect place on earth today. The striving for peace has to be done by all together to make a change and not by small groups. How do you think people by locking themselves out in small colonies or countries can bring about larger change ? Were changes bought about in Gurus time made by keeping Sikhs seperate from others ? If Khalistan is established tomorrow, do you think it will bring peace on the earth ?

Just like beauty is in the eye-of-the beholder. Similarly discrimination is in the eye of the receiver as well. So if you say that you were discriminated I will believe you. but this thread is devoted towards western intellectual colonization.

I would like to say here that Khalistan is a non-starter because it seeks to divide further an already divided world. If there is a God who willed us to live together, and thus he created all the races, species in one earth and not on different earths. Then obviously his mandate for us is to live together in harmony. And live by consensus. For if we can't live by consensus then we break God's tenet on earth.

the basic tenet of life is that mankind was not meant to be a single-flower garden: LET A THOUSAND FLOWERS BLOOM is the tenet God wants us to live by. It is just that we need to be careful not to be ruled by tyrants. Or if we indeed are ruled by tyrants then keep our wits around all the time. No time to completely relax. Always tyaar-bar-tyaar. (perpetual vigilance)

I was too naive and trusting .. and thus mostly on the receiving end of anything bad. Also being of the very sensitive type didn't help as I used to always get extremely agitated by dissonance. One human behaving badly with the other etc. Being in Delhi I had lots of lahori Hindus as friends, classmates, aquaintances. And all them seemed pretty prejudiced in one way or the other.

For those people who find it difficult to live with Hindus .. they can learn from my experience Right from childhood I hated the hindu esp the North Indian hindu. I have always found them brash, arrogant, insensitive, stupid, loud yet ineffective etc. I had always felt closer to muslims and Sikhs. More towards muslim I must say. My barber was a muslim, the guy from whom I got meats was a muslim, my car mechanic was a muslim (car was old model Premier Padmini or Fiat), my favorite teachers were muslim, I used to have my best time when I roamed around muslim monuments in Old Delhi. I felt at peace in muslim mosques in Jama Masjid and Chandni Chowk. I used to love muslim restaurants like Karim's. Used to absolutely love that muslim feel all around with ancient architecture. In fact being around muslims always bought peace to my hearts. I would seek out muslim guys in school, college etc. Like to hang out with them. Religion-wise I felt more at peace with muslim because background of both religions were mostly similar. Old Testament was common to both muslims and Christians. being around hindus I felt that I was amongst a lot of people who were constantly cribbing, bitching, fighting, they were mostly loveless, uncaring, no sense of soceity (or community), so sense of unity as I found in muslims areas. Then it was quite late in my life that certain changes occured within me and around and for the first time I began to empathize with the hindu.

In Bible I have read a Ram .. is that Ram this Ayodhya Ram ? I dunno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_(bible) similarly there are a few hindu figures in the bible .. or altleast names are similar. Next is Abraham. His wife was Sara Hindus have Brahma and wife Saras-wati (wati is common female suffix "Glick has culled Judaic mystical literature and found striking parallels in Hinduism, Gaudiya Vaishnavism in particular" Dr. Nathan Katz http://www.equalsouls.org/index.html

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/27...its-holocausts/ ...

It is possible that Ram was in Treta yug. My bad Because varna-ashram dharma (brahmacharya in youth, grihastacharya in middle age, sanyasa in old age) was started only in Treta Yug after Ram's experience.

Satya Yug (Ram's times) Treta Yug Dwapara Yug (Krishna, Mahabharata etc) Kaliyug (present)

taxonomy of the Indian elite. In slideshare. http://www.slideshare.net/vepa/indian-elite-research

Since the past two days, it has become quite humid around these parts. It was very cool and comfortable till now with regular rains and stuff. It was quite pleasant. hopefully it will rain again. fingers crossed.

aiyoo boss, plz forgive me I do not wish to impose any depth on others. Just take it for what it is. I come here out of love. Ramble on for a while and leave. Nothing more nothing less.

how can I debate my world view veerje ? Either you accept it or you reject it. Our world view is the sum of our experiences on this planet (mine has low oxygen to boot).

Exactly. He would be the first one to espouse anti-Western conspiracy theories, just as his political masters - the Congress - would like him to. Arre baba, he didn't espouse any anti-Western theories. This fact about Manmohan Singh was espoused by Dr. Ashok Mitra in his book 'the Prattler's rattle' or something. Dr. Ashok Mitra alleged that India was forced to appoint Shri Manmohan Singh as FM during PV Narasimha Rao's regime due to pressure from World Bank (MMS was an employee of WB at that time). Seconly MJ Akbar has been very consistent in opposing the Indo-US nuclear deal and as a result just two months ago, Sonia G weighed upon the owners of Asian Age/Deccan Herald to chuck him out of its editorship. Asian Age had two writers in Seema Mustafa and MJ Akbar who were constantly writing in anti-establishment and anti-Congress articles.

It's quite complicated theoritically. the way I justify all this. I remained purely vegetarian for around 5 years so I know that there is some kind *aggresssion-energy* deficit with that diet. Because vegetarian diet is very calming influence as far as my experience goes. But the outside world is full of crap, full of violent people. And it is necessary for me to keep up and exceed those geniuses by being more aggressive and eating more meat than them. As there is an old saying that 'only fire cuts fire' .. 'loha hee lohe nuu kaat da hain' or something similar. So I need to go on a bout of this toxicity to keep up with the joneses and be at their game. But now all this is cruel to poor animals like hens, poultry, cows etc who are losing their lives to keep up with my need to keep up with the violent joneses and to fuel my rage. But then I conveniently pass the blame to age that we live in .. for all purposes this is the 'dark ages' and the Kalyug .. I can't live like an innocent little white flower in this dirt but instead have to blend in and subvert from within if possible. this is my logic and reasoning. And I practice this myself by going on longer periods of relative vegetarianism and exceeding my limits each time. Also in the fervent hope that my own life and attempts are making an effect on universal consciousness. And that I too am contributing in my own small wayss.

Being a Christian I do enjoy that weakend brunch of stir fried beef or that rare steak. All the butchers in my vicinity are muslim so that is how I came to relate with them and empathize with them since my childhood. But that said and done, lately (past 3 yrs or so) I have also realized that as I grow older there is merit in long periods of vegetarianism as well. In that it helps cleanse out the system from toxins collected by eating all manner of animal flesh. So yea do eat beef but between long periods of relative vegetarianism (fish, eggs and chicken are vegetarian in my book) and introspection.

haven't you heard the phrase "the higher you go the lonelier you get" ? She never trusted anyone except probably her sons. And that is not a good situation to be in. But it is par for the course for politicians, if you read up on Nixon then Kissinger who was his personal advisor helped a highly influential lobby shaft Nixon in the back. So even your closes advisor can not be trusted esp if you are at the top of the pyramid. And one last request is to keep the discussion civil and don't issue threats or warnings to me if you want to keep this discussion alive. If you are civil then I am civil. no offence

Mazumdar, MJ Akbar's blog is not dodgy by any stretch. You will know this if you have lived in India for any period of time. He was considered extremely close to Gandhi family. He was also until recently the Editor of Asian Age, a very popular English newspaper in India. It is an inflight newspaper in domestic airlines. Manmohan Singh's entire liberalisation package was crafted in World Bank and IMF office and he was an ex-employee of WB. The accusation against Manmohan Singh was made by Dr. Ashok Mitra, Chief Economic Advisor to the Govt of India. MJ Akbar just commented on it.

Because her elimination facilitated the entry of these two. Liberalisation of Indian economy under ManMohan Singh in 90s meant that these two and their numerous fronts entered India. Read Manmohan's history here. read second and third para. http://mjakbarblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/pr...ers-rattle.html Holding patterns of Indian companies explained by flo-chart. Look how it is dominated by two big players who have intered India post-liberalisation. The main Consultants for Merger Liberalization and Privatization in India Five Main Consulting Groups that ‘help’ liberalization And road map for mergers consolidations

Please do not make it out that I am defending Mrs. Indira Gandhi. I have enough sins on myself and have no pressing need to carry Mrs. Indira Gandhi's sins on my shoulder as well. & where have I said what she did was right .. have only asked folks to give a bit of leeway since politicians depend upon their advisors. And in Indira's case her intelligence agencies .. however flawed be their inputs. Her chief secretary R. K. Dhavan was himself indicted as having a role in her murder. below is a sample of how her intelligence bosses and advisors might tell her .. So if they say .. hello Mrs. Gandhi this is the situation on the ground .. it's volatile .. so and so is hell bent on defying you .. he wants to humiliate you .. he is already in touch with a neighbouring country "P" .. and that neighbouring country "P" is already in touch with a superpower "U" and apparently "U" has rushed advisors to "P" to infiltrate field agents into the troubled Indian state. Madam, .. we have also come to know from sources .. that the neighbouring country "P" is supplying heavy weapons and they are being stacked in places of worship of community "S". Once they gather enough ammunition and stock up on weapons .. it is "P"s plan to engineer an event and create such severe law & order problems that they will use that pretext to declare their support to Independent state. Superpower "U" is also waiting in "P" it's ally to infiltrate agents who are highly trained in aiding and organising civil insurgency. Madam .. please suggest what should we do now ?? what is a lone paranoid woman supposed to do then ? If she errs on judgement and says something wrong then it can spiral out into something really large because of so many seen and unseen factors causing trouble. Ultimately all responsibility of anything done right or royally screwed up rests on her shoulders. She might not have had a malicious intent .. that's all I am saying. Now all you guys don't hang me for it.