Jai Tegang!

48 minutes ago, Kau89r8 said:

Fair point BUT if given horses and swords...Isla mists will do well. If given power Islamistes will without doubt free those countries. Look at those Russian  African Muslims etc. 

Let not forget can say the same about our kaum full gaddars (kps gill brar etc)

 

Thats when Khalsa was ruling AND we had actual KHALSA Misl Singhs...now its history.. 

We can learn from Jews about importance of economic power and islam growing population and the attraction way they preach attracts everyone to islam 

Having 50+ countries with sizeable populations in absolute majorities and still being relatively powerless compared to the western powers doesn't exude confidence. And don't conflate regional ethnic tendencies with 'power of islam'. Some ethnicities are fighters no matter the religion. It adds an extra layer, but it's not always the deciding factor. Islam like xians have hundreds of ethnicities that bring their positives and negatives to the table. We have one, and we do pretty well given cards we are dealt.

For your second point, I wouldn't exaggerate our gaddhar ratio. I don't think the kaum is full of them. You will always find a handful that will  fill in the role the oppressor state demands. If a kps gill or brar or a swarn ghotna didn't step forward, the state can use a non sikh face to its bidding. They just prefer to put a sikh face to their genocide. The power is behind the mask. The mask is powerless in itself.

Commenting on your last point. I think you've fallen into some social media rabbit hole regarding the 'rise of islam'. There aren't that many converts in sum total. Most are just going through the isalmic  jungle fever and fizzle out eventually. There are more muslims leaving than coming in. Iranians have covertly abandoned islam in large numbers and are feeling a pull backwards to their old parsi roots. Pre-islamic ethnic cultures are tugging many muslim ethnicities backwards to their roots. It's not quite out in the open, but you have to give these things a few centuries to play out. Their growth lies in birthrate, that I will concede is their strength.

2 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

 

 

There is no alphaness to arabs when you look at their ground work. They will moan and groan about a tiny sliver of a nation that has rag-dolled them multiple times, but tippy toe around when real action is needed. There are multilple muslim ethnicities that are under repression yet the ummah can't muster up a response. Look at the condition of groups like  rohingya, uygher, palistinian, alabanian, indian muslims, kashmiris. Where have they shown their brave alpha muscle apart from flexing in liberal democracies where they know they can ride the coattails of the extreme loony left. The pakis will shake hands with the chineses knowing full well that their co-religionists are getting  lobotomized. The gulf states will embrace modi knowing full well what plans hindutva has rolled out. 

6 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

@Ranjeet01 You will get more more converts to islam now. Might even start seeing high profile ppl converting to islam like they do with sports stars. So many converted after 9/11 middle east wars..its something they do right.

Yes i can't believe im actually typing i'd be ok living with muslim dominate after last few yrs of full frontal Sikhs have been thru with far-right/ india our own gangu brahmins... who would have thought 4 years ago lol

Well Sikhs are powerless we are at the backseat of all global affairs.... q' is what will be the shape of Sikhs in West with heavily dominated crusade wars happening?! 

 

Islam will never conquer the west, no chance at all. All they can do is increase through birthrate and immigration, but they will never acquire real power. A few celebrities or commoners here and there don’t change the broader picture (same kind of conversion stories exist for all faith groups with neo-budhists being a case in point). Euros/whites are far more likely to revert back to some pre-christian faith system, or re-invent Christianity for their current tastes, than choose Islam.  Plus, they have hundreds of other modern day ‘isms’ to choose from instead of an outdated desert tribal religion. If the whites feel threatened enough, they will switch on their genocidal mode. Unfortunately, we will also be wiped out along with the muslims if it reaches that point.

Also, don’t fall into the social media algorithm trap. Muslims are not powerful by any stretch. They punch well below their numbers, and the amount  of countries they own they should have been vastly more powerful, but they aren’t. Most of their countries are subdued with American dominance and ‘aid-funding’. Don’t think just because a few million have settled into first-world western states that they will somehow take them over.

We need to concentrate on our core values and have faith in Guru Maharaj to guide us into the future. We may not matter today on the global scene, but that can change in the coming centuries if Guruji will it. Learn from the accomplishments and mistakes of others and our own, then wisely chart our next steps. We'll be ok.

On 7/19/2023 at 2:03 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Anyone into reading Gurmukhi to some extent have any comment on the translation? It's an interesting text, even more so (for me) when Rattan Singh Bhangu mentions that the source is the much older Sukha Singh Gurbilas. I wonder if anyone has ever found the source sakhi (if it is in there) and compared it? 

I really enjoy the more direct and simple grammar of Bhangu's Panth Prakash compared to the more strecthed out flowerey suraj prakash. He gets to the point much more quickly! Perhaps it's my own bias because I'm in it for the history and not the poetry.

Also, I think the text can be read by punjabi speakers and they can understand the gist of it without having to constantly read the translation/ commentary. 

There is a mention of a game called "saunchi" in the above text. I'm guessing it could be a type of contact sport like kabbadi ? Or perhaps somethinga bit more aggressive?

13 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

I am wondering when sirgumm term started to be used in the panth. I understand Meenas, Masands, dhirmalaiye, kurri-maar is more than just name-calling, so thought we should at least take a look or discuss this.

And I guess the leaving alone bit is kind of similar to staying away? It's different when it's a personality does something. Similar to some babas and sants etc!

Each of theses groups has to be contextualized for the time period. Most of these ostracized groups dissolved back into mainstream over time. They pose no current challenge to the Panth's well-being. These "lists" need updating all the time. Even parasitic offshoot groups that we were in conflict with 40 years ago dont pose any serious challenges today. The radha-soami head baba has pivoted back towards sikhi as a case in point, and so has one half of the namdhari sect. 

Coming back to ks makan, what is the point of targeting someone for leaving the amritdhari lifestyle when you have the vast majority of our people also rejecting the same by way of never adopting it inspite of beng born in sikh families. I would understand if guys like makhan started attacking the amritdhari jeevan , but that's not the case. I would also be interested in your opinion on my earlier point about the numerous youngsters who cut their hair after having taken Amrit in childhood or sometimes even in their youth.

This was more applicable when cutting kesh was rare and rules like these helped nip the problem.  The situation is inverted now. Also,  is it better to never even attempt amritdhari life ? Atleast Makhan tried for a few years, and he still holds immense respect or it. Just leave the guy alone and let him come back on more firm footing in the future. 

Plus, there are many kids from (amritdhari) families that take amrit at a young age, but cut their kesh in their youth. Do you think it would be fair to namecall them as sirgums while their peers get a free pass?

You have to evaluate these maryada rules on an ongoing basis to see what helps the panth and what may end up causing more harm than good.

There are way too many churches in punjab in relation to their numbers. It is definitely a well coordinated and well funded effort by various christian groups. They face very little resistance in comparison to the rest of india, so they're exploiting our tolerance. Caste discrimination can't be solely blamed because Punjab tends to be better than most parts of India (even the gov. figures agree). Also, Punjab has the largest proportion of "lower castes" at 32%. 

7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

People are clocking, from comments in that twitter:

 

Religion layer also has caste layer. This is Jatt vs Oppressed Dalits. Sikhs do not allow space to Dalits so Dalits are converting.

The cadre of Nihang Dals comes heavily from Mazabi Sikhs as it offers a path out of abject poverty and some stability and honor. But sadly we haven't done enough as evidence from the skyrocketing conversions of Mazabi Sikhs. The people in that video are more likely to be from the same caste. One side has abandoned Sikhi while the other side is trying their level best to stop the erosion.

2 hours ago, 5aaban said:

Is this practice more common in certain districts/areas of Panjab? 

According to Pal, this is most prevalent in the Majha. 

4 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

 

I've watched a few of Pal's videos. I was absolutely shocked that this stuff is so prevelent over there. He went after the Gujjar 'deras' (they practice this to a horrific level by actually handicapping/giving brain injury to kids and then shifting them around their camps' network) but backed off as of late because of the hostility from them. There are gut-wrenching videos of elders kept in captivity at home; migrant laboureres (being the most prevelant class); mentally handicapped locals...and the list goes on. If this stuff happens in Punjab, just imagine the scale of it across India. Probably worse is pakistan I imagine. The weakest are exploited to the max over there. 

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think the UK is likely packed with gadaars like this, as well as their families. I'm pretty sure PP and their affiliates are deeply rooted here now too (with the UK governments blessing and support). 

Same with Canada. Ajit Sandhu https://www.sikh24.com/2015/12/11/khalra-killer-ssp-ajit-sandhu-is-alive-in-canada-hints-ex-dgp-sashi-kant/  is rumoured to be living in canada (if still alive). Likely to be plenty of others. 

Thanks for sharing  the artwork @dallysingh101 It's fascinating to see how the dress of women has evolved, and contrasts with popular perceptions in present day jathas. Honest engagement with history really helps to chart the future.

21 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Good call but there needs to be a very clear dharmic / religious sentiment that underpins it otherwise you'll get hyper Sikhs with guns resorting to bullets to sort out domestic issues instead of looking beyond their personal, petty conflicts, which is the culture that the likes of Moosewala are perpetuating. With a cognitively limited group such as ours, leaving things to interpretation is not sensible.

I'm surprised this was even identified as a problem, especially mosques. 

There is bound to be plenty of chaos in the near future of India. I don't think the majority of our  kaum is going to get to a more matured civilizational point anytime soon. We will have to work with what little we can muster up. It's starting to hit the fan over there I'm sensing. Panic is brewing for what is to come.

Some positive winds of change. Some highlights:

1. Call made for Sikhs to start up firing ranges and get acquisition and training in firearms.
2. Pinds need to halt the contruction of churches and mosques
3. Parchariks and panthic sampardais need to leave their comfort zones and restart parchar in pinds in the face of aggressive christian campaigns
4. jawarhar lal nehru was blamed for betrayal and denial of our raaj
5. Sikhs have a right to seek raaj

And some other points were made. Jathedaar also pointed out that the 'caging in' of sangat this year by heavy deployment of security forces is unprecedented in recent times and will not go unnoticed.

All in all, this is positive news that the decimation of Badal Dal has prompted a pivot in favor of facing some real issues. The SGPC just a few years back was flat out rejecting that whole scale conversions were turning Gurdaspur and all of border areas into Christian strongholds. Im glad they have summoned enough courage to include mushrooming mosques in the list.

22 minutes ago, Kau89r8 said:

@proudkaur21 Do you think this guy Lawernce Bishnoi is a 'Jatt Sikh' - His dad was a cop 

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CeSpCw1L1Ua/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D

 

The Abohar Fazilka corner in south-west punjab has a large hindu population, with "haryanvi" jaats and other castes like the bishnois, who ended up on our side after Punjab was split into three states. There are gangs and crime syndicates operating in the NCR region, haryana, rajasthan and it stretches into punjab thanks to this lawarence bishnoi guy. 

Sad to see a youth taken in his prime like this. The gang violence is spinning out of control over there. Singers, actors, lower end politicians get extorted and have to choose sides to survive. This hit is part of the wider conflict going on between the Lawrence Bishnoi/ Goldy Brar and Bambiha gangs. 

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

So I was reading the report on Moosewala's murder, and it mentions that AAP temporarily removed state security of key Punjabi personalities (reassigning personnel for the Bluestar commemorations) including Moosewala and the Akal Takhat Jathedar (among others).

Was this "call to arms" by the jathedar an emotional and petulant lashing out because he had his security detail reassigned for a few weeks? Genuine question, I have no axe to grind in this situation.

 

The call to arms was prior to the government scaling back security. It was more like petty politics by AAP given that the Jathedar had only 4 security men to begin with. In comparison, Kejriwal gets 90 Punjab Police Personnel (even though he resides in Delhi) and Raghav Chada gets 50. Also, these are not temporary scale backs. Bhagwant Mann has in fact requested and received 100 companies of the Indo-Tibetan Border Patrol force to "keep the peace". Interestingly, the Jathedaar's call was made after this police build-up in the state.

32 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

That is why sikhs need to do parchaar to non sikhs especially in India. Any sikh in the world is our brother/sister before some random atheist punjabi. There are many potential future sikhs in India. We need to do something.

People are attracted to strength and look for personal gain. It’s not the nitty gritty offerings of the religion, it’s the material benefit of the grouping that really pulls people in and keeps them there. If we can’t project strength in Punjab, it’s not going to work anywhere else. People need to see it in action to be convinced that giving up membership in the 1  billion-plus hindu conglomerate is worthwhile. Just look at Islam. No matter how horrendous and appalling aspects of their religious doctrine are, muslims stay put. Even knowing full well that there is no way any sane person with a sense of inherent morality can practice their faith to the T, muslims will not abandon ship. Only when a viable option that offers them security and material gain will muslims start leaving, and they have strong gatekeepers to prevent that from ever happening.

I think our best course of action is more along the line of what @dallysingh101 keeps reminding us. We need to clean our own house, and that requires some harsh reality checks.