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My apologies for the duplicate re-post in the "What's Happening Section" (which was also the wrong section to post in). Everyone check out the original link to the article as well for more pictures: http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8973919/fauja-singh-runner

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8973919/fauja-singh-runner The Runner Fauja Singh ran his first marathon at age 89 and became an international sensation. Now 101 years old, he will run his final race on Sunday in Hong Kong -- and try to find peace with a Guinness World Records slight. ESPN The Magazineby Jordan ConnPORTRAITS BY LEVON BISS 02/22/13 THE PARTY WOULD BEGIN just as soon as the race ended. And the race would end just after Fauja Singh crossed the line in 3,851st place. By finishing then -- by finishing at all -- Fauja would do what no man before him had ever done. Amid the bundled and cheering crowd in Toronto, underneath a distended but gracious sky, he would complete a marathon. And he would do so at 100 years old. Was it pain he felt as he approached the end, just footsteps away from redefining the limits of human endurance? No, this wasn't pain. Fauja knew pain. Pain was death -- you see plenty of that when you live 100 years. Pain was bloody limbs and overtaxed joints -- you get too much of that when you insist on completing every race you ever start. This wasn't pain but exhaustion. And Fauja could handle exhaustion, because exhaustion foreshadowed euphoria. When Fauja got tired, it often meant a record would soon fall. Fauja Singh crosses the finish line in the Toronto Waterfront Marathon in Toronto on Oct. 16, 2011. David Cooper/The Toronto Star/Zuma Press He'd already broken a few. Fastest to run a marathon (male, over age 90), fastest to run 5,000 meters (male, over age 100), fastest to run 3,000 meters (male, over age 100), and on and on they went. But those records didn't roll off the tongue the way this one would. Oldest person to complete a marathon (male): Fauja Singh. The other feats had earned him recognition from the Masters Federation websites. This one would put him in the Guinness World Records. An official with the company had contacted Fauja's coach, Harmander Singh (no relation) several weeks earlier. Harmander told Fauja that Guinness would send representatives to watch Fauja run in the Toronto Waterfront Marathon, and as soon as he finished, they would award him the recognition he deserved. So Fauja ran in Toronto, arms swinging, yellow turban bobbing, chest-length Zeusian beard swaying in the wind. He was joined by other runners with roots in the Indian region of Punjab, their appearance in keeping with the traditions of their Sikh faith. Fauja trotted for the first three miles, until his coach encouraged him to slow to a jog. Speed was fleeting, the enemy of endurance. By mile 6, he'd downshifted to a toddle. After a break for a rubdown and some tea at mile 18, he settled into a walk. The exhaustion took hold sometime around mile 20, but Harmander kept Fauja upbeat with white lies about the remaining distance. He'd tell Fauja there were four miles left when there were actually six, then two miles left when there were actually three, making Fauja believe he'd covered more ground than he actually had, until finally Fauja saw the only mile-marker he understood: the finish line. What had been silence between footsteps was now music and cheers. The slog to the finish reminded Fauja of his wedding day, of the joy that awaited at the end of the long aisle. He waved to the crowd as he walked across the line, then lifted his arms and accepted a medal. He'd finished in 8 hours, 25 minutes. There were smiles and handshakes and photos with friends and strangers, then a rambling news conference for Fauja to reflect on his record. Amid the chaos and congratulations, however, Fauja and Harmander never noticed the absence of one celebrant they'd expected. They didn't realize that Guinness was nowhere to be found. Harmander Singh runs with Fauja in Valentines Park in Redbridge, London. Levon Biss for ESPN The Magazine THE VILLAGE OF BEAS PIND sits in northeastern India, not too far from the Pakistani border, right along the Jalandhar Pathankhot road. It is quiet and nondescript, a place for farmers and their families, their daily routines dictated by the whims of the weather and the yield of the land. On one spring morning in Beas Pind, Bhago Kaur gave birth to a son. The women of the family decided to call him Fauja, meaning "army general," or "soldier." The year was 1911. At least, that is, if you believe Fauja Singh. The man has no birth certificate, because at that time, in that part of the world, there were no birth certificates. The British ruled India until 1947 and, according to Michelle Ercanbrack of Ancestry.com, the country did not begin registering births until 1964. There is no record when this family photo was taken, but it is at Fauja's ancestral home in Punjab, India. Courtesy Khushwant Singh But none of that would matter for another century or so. In 1911, it mattered only that the boy was healthy and happy and loved. By his second birthday, however, Fauja's parents had cause for concern: He couldn't walk. The way Fauja tells it, his legs were short and spindly, capable of movement but too weak to support his body. He turned 3. No steps yet. Then 4. Still crawling. Children called him danda, Punjabi for "stick." Family members worried he might be crippled for life, so they consulted village doctors. Generally unfamiliar with Western medicine, the local health care providers were likely to concoct an herbal remedy for illness or prescribe human urine for injuries, but in Fauja's case, they saw nothing wrong. The boy was just weak, they said. Nothing could be done. Finally, at age 5, he developed enough strength to hobble. Proper walking didn't come until around age 10. In the Punjab, schools were scarce and attended only by the upper classes, so as he grew, Fauja joined the village's other men on the farm. He fed the cattle. He worked the land, growing maize and wheat. When monsoon season brought rain and rain turned dirt to mud, Fauja returned home each day with his clothes soiled, ready to rest with a hot cup of tea. He subsisted on milk and yogurt and conversations that stretched from afternoon to night. It was a simple life, each day's monotonous pleasures carrying over to the next. Years passed. Fauja married. His wife, Gian Kaur, had three boys and three girls. Years more passed. The children grew. By the 1960s, most had married and moved, one by one, to the West. One settled in Canada, the others in England. One stayed at home -- Kuldip, Fauja's fifth child and second son. In 1992, his wife died. Fauja grieved but felt thankful, celebrating a long life well lived. He was 81 now, surely approaching death himself, and he was happy to live out his remaining days at home with Kuldip. "I have always loved my children the same," he says, but there in the village, he could see and touch and smell only Kuldip every day. In the mornings, they worked the fields. In the afternoons, they laughed over tea. In the evenings, they retired to their roadside home. There was no favoritism, he'd say, only the intimacy of a life shared. In Punjab, the monsoons came each July. Hot air rose. Air pressure dropped. Rain fell and crops grew and farmers celebrated their windfall while seeking shelter from the spewing and malevolent sky. One night in 1994, Kuldip and Fauja walked outside to make some repairs to an irrigation channel that ran next to the site of their newest business venture, a roadside restaurant. Wind and rain whipped across the village, ripping a sheet of corrugated metal off the roof of the restaurant. This was typical in Punjab, where the violence of the weather patterns often overpowered the infrastructure of the villages. Everything that would come later in life -- the records, the travel, the fame -- all of it was in response to that night. But when Fauja is asked to recount it, he lets his translator tell most of the story. He'd rather not say that he watched the sheet of metal fly at his son's skull, watched iron collide with flesh and his son's head fly off his body. He'd rather not remember the rain falling as Fauja screamed, looking on as his son lay on the ground, dead. Decapitated. He will, however, mention the thoughts the came next. "Why, God? Why him? Why not me?" Fauja Singh at the Gurdwara Singh Sabha Seven Kings, a Sikh Temple, in London. Levon Biss for ESPN The Magazine THE MONOTONOUS DAYS, once so benign, now trudged forward underneath the weight of loss. Fauja sat in his home or under the nearby trees, stone faced, waiting for each day to end. He picked fights. He lost friends. He wandered around the village, alone and aimless. He walked to the spot where his son's head had once rolled, and he stared and mumbled and cried. The villagers worried. They called Fauja's other children in London and told them, Your father's gone crazy. The children decided Fauja needed to be near them, so they asked him to move to England. He boarded a plane, leaving most of his possessions behind. He'd visited London over the years and found it "fantastic and different." But this time: "I was going only to forget." At first, the new setting was no better. Too old to work and illiterate besides, Fauja felt no purpose or responsibility. "My mind," he says, "was still in India." Yet his depression had come to London. At 101, Fauja Singh is believed to be the world's oldest marathon runner. Looking to get out of the house, Fauja began running with fellow Punjabi expats at Sikh community gatherings. "I needed something to distract myself," he says. Nearly 85 years after Fauja had been too weak to walk, he found himself in decent physical shape. While his new expat friends had spent much of their lives enjoying London's conveniences, Fauja had spent his days laboring on the farm. He challenged fellow seniors to sprints. He won. When there was no one available to race, Fauja set off running by himself, and he built up his distance over time. When running, Fauja realized he thought only of his next step. After enough steps, his mind went blank, and with his feet pounding the pavement, Fauja says, "I felt connected to God." The anger evaporated. For at least a few moments, Fauja escaped his grief. Fauja lived with his son, Sukhjinder, and his children took care of his expenses. He still collected a pension from the government, however (as do many of the UK's elderly residents), so he allowed himself to indulge in expensive clothing. After a lifetime in functional Punjabi garb, he took quickly to London's high-fashion aesthete. He couldn't speak the language or follow the customs, and his beard and his turban marked him clearly as a foreigner, but from the neck down, Fauja looked the part of a Londoner. He had another indulgence, too: television. Fauja hadn't owned one in India, so now he passed hours flipping channels on the couch, and one afternoon, he saw a mass of people crowded together on the road, running along in T-shirts and shorts. Curious, Fauja asked around, What were they doing? Soon he found out it was an organized race. A marathon, they called it. Fauja decided that if the people on TV could run a marathon, then surely he could run one, too. Fauja Singh ran his first marathon at age 89. Levon Biss for ESPN The Magazine THROUGH A MUTUAL ACQUAINTANCE, Fauja met Harmander Singh, an amateur marathoner who trained others in his spare time. Fauja told Harmander he wanted to run the London Marathon and needed a coach. It was February of 2000. The race was in April. Fauja had 10 weeks. On the first day of training, Fauja arrived limber and energetic and dressed, as he believed was perfectly appropriate, in a dazzling three-piece suit. Harmander told him he needed a wardrobe change. After adamant protests, Fauja relented, ditched the suit and bought running gear. He showed up every day after that, building his routine around his training schedule. His mileage increased as the weeks passed. Race day arrived. After 6 hours and 54 minutes, 4:48 behind winner Antonio Pinto, Fauja crossed the finish line. At age 89, he was a marathoner. Soon, he would be a star. ... FAUJA ENTERED THE LONDON MARATHON again the next year, 2001, this time with a record at stake. He needed to beat 7:52 to be the fastest marathoner alive over age 90. He broke it by 57 minutes. Now came the interviews, the photo ops and the requests for public appearances. Fauja became a staple at events held by the Punjabi diaspora, showing up to weddings and parties and school festivals, giving hugs and shaking hands. Fauja kept running, and his time kept dropping, and in 2004 adidas called, eager to include a turbaned nonagenarian marathoner in its "Impossible is Nothing" ad campaign. Fauja was featured alongside David Beckham, and his image was used in magazine ads, along with the tagline: 6:54 at age 89. 5:40 at age 92. The Kenyans better watch out for him when he hits 100. Fauja Singh, at age 93, begins the 2004 London Marathon in Greenwich. AP Photo/PA/Chris Young According to Harmander, Fauja gave all the money he received to charity. Many races paid for his travel expenses, but at home, he could live off his children and his pension. He raced in Scotland and Canada and all over England. "I had a new focus," he says. The more he ran and gave, the more he pushed back his grief. As he traveled, Fauja barely knew where he was from one day to the next. If you asked him about "adidas," he'd have no clue who you were talking about. He knew it only as the company that sponsored him, who brought him in for photo-shoots and events. The attention -- that's what Fauja loved. He may have donated the money, but the smiles and handshakes from friends and strangers alike, the hugs from blondes and the questions from reporters -- all of that was for Fauja and Fauja alone. He almost never turned down requests for appearances or photos, always eager to step into any room whose attention he could command. So when Fauja came to the United States for the New York City Marathon in 2003, he wanted all eyes on him. Specifically, on his head. Post-9/11 America had become a difficult place for turban wearers. It mattered little that turbans were most common among Sikhs, and that Sikhs -- whose monotheistic faith originated in India in the 15th century -- played no role in the attacks on the twin towers. Sikhs wore turbans. And in 2003, turbans were bad. Dozens of hate crimes against Sikhs had been reported across the country. In Phoenix, a Sikh truck driver was shot twice by men in a pickup truck, unprovoked. In Maryland, a Sikh family received threatening letters and had its home vandalized. In New York, a Sikh police officer resigned after his supervisors ordered him to shave his beard and remove his turban. For Sikhs, the turban is worn as a marker of never-ending accountability. Everywhere he goes, a Sikh man is marked by his religion. This is by design. It's a constant reminder -- a man doesn't represent only himself; he represents all who share his beliefs. So Fauja arrived in New York, dying to spark conversation over his turban and his faith. If he could run a good race, perhaps even break a record or two, that would help. By this point, however, Fauja was on his third marathon in less than seven months. The miles had taken a toll. He showed up for the race with the flu, jet lag and a bum ankle. Once he got going, he had to listen to cries of "Osama!" and "Saddam!" from the crowd. The pack pulled away, and Fauja slipped behind, stopping every so often for rest and medical treatment. Blisters formed, and soon they burst, the blood filling Fauja's sock. His run became a walk; his walk became a hobble. With his foot throbbing, Fauja shouted in Punjabi to whoever could hear, "Just chop it off!" Paramedics trailed close behind, but whenever they asked whether he needed help, Fauja just waved them away. He would finish, and would show Americans what kind of men wore turbans atop their heads. After 7 hours and 34 minutes, more than half an hour slower than his previous slowest time, Fauja crossed the finish line. After he finished answering questions from reporters, he collapsed. Within moments, he was surrounded by paramedics and lifted into an ambulance. Cameras clicked, capturing the old man, frail and slow, with a turban wrapped tight around his head, looking closer to death than to ever finishing another marathon. He felt certain he'd failed to convince anyone of a Sikh man's strength and kindness. Never mind that cheers had far outweighed slurs, or that the next morning's papers would make only passing reference to his injuries. In Fauja's mind, he'd become a symbol of weakness, deserving of pity, not respect. He made a vow: He'd never run again. ... Harmander Singh would not let his student quit. Levon Biss for ESPN The Magazine ONE PROBLEM: Harmander wouldn't let him quit. "I was terrified," Harmander says. "He'd used running to pull himself out of the depression he fell into after his son died. What was he going to do without it?" Harmander convinced Fauja to run one more race. New York had been too difficult, he said. Three marathons in six-and-a-half months is remarkable for a 30-year-old. At 92 it's insane. "So give it some time," Harmander told Fauja. "Let your body recover, then see how you feel." Fauja agreed to run the London Marathon again the next spring. He ran his third-fastest time ever, 6:07. He was back. Now Haramander approached Fauja with another proposal. "You've already set every marathon record you possibly can. There's only one left to break, the record for the oldest marathoner ever." At the time, that record was held by Dimitrion Yordanidis, who ran the original marathon course, from Marathon, Greece, to Athens, in 1976. Yordanidis had been 98. Fauja was 93. "You can't break that record now," Harmander said. "All you can do is wait." So Fauja waited, running shorter races to fill his time. Then, in April 2011, his 100th birthday arrived, and with it, an opportunity to break the record. Soon he received an invitation from the Toronto Waterfront Marathon, where years ago Fauja had run his fastest time. He accepted. The race was set for October. In September, Harmander received an email from Vin Sharma, a London-based Global Talent Manager at Guinness. "What would be great," Sharma wrote, "is to start by acknowledging 'Oldest Marathon Runner' title which rightfully belongs to Fauja-ji." (Ji is an honorific suffix used in Indian languages.) “He'd used running to pull himself out of the depression he fell into after his son died. What was he going to do without it? ” - Harmander Singh The email from Sharma continued: "Birth certificate or passport to verify his age would also be useful." Fauja, of course, did not have a birth certificate. But he did have a passport. He'd gotten his first when he visited his children abroad, decades prior. On that passport, and on each one he'd received since, there was listed the same date of birth: April 1, 1911. Sharma attached a document with official guidelines for the record. "Where a birth certificate is not available," it said, "a copy of a relevant ID should be submitted." They submitted the documents, and weeks later they flew to Toronto. Fauja finished in 8:25. In his mind, and in the minds of everyone present at the race, Fauja had done what no man had done before. ... "100-YEAR-OLD MARATHON RUNNER not recognised by Guinness," read the BBC News headline after the event. In an interview with the network, Guinness editor-in-chief Craig Glenday said, "We would love to give him the record. We'd love to say this is a true Guinness World Record, but the problem is there is just no evidence." By no evidence, Glenday meant that there was no birth certificate. "We can only accept official birth documents created in the year of the birth," Glenday told the BBC. "Anything else is really not very useful to us." In September, a Guinness representative had sent guidelines suggesting a passport would be sufficient. Now in October, the company said only a birth certificate would do. It didn't matter that Fauja had received his first passport before he began running, negating any significant possibility of a plot to break the record. Nor did it matter what the Guinness official had told Harmander. Cara Kilbey, Fauja Singh, Billi Mucklow and their friend Lulu pose for a photo during the London Marathon in April 2012. Christopher Lee/Getty Images "This is a case of institutional racism," Harmander said, after learning of the news. The thinking was simple. Guinness had decided its age records could be held only by people with birth certificates. The vast majority of people with birth certificates in the early 20th century came from Europe or North America. Fauja could not have the record. And for that matter, neither could most anyone else from Asia or Africa or other parts of the developing world. Now came the follow-up stories. "Marathon man Fauja Singh runs into racism row," said the headline in London's conservative paper, The Daily Telegraph. Members of the Sikh community, both at home in Punjab and across the diaspora, signed a petition and set the Internet aflame with angry comments. "BROWN PEOPLE OF TUMBLR," one person wrote on the popular blogging platform about Singh, "I SUMMON YOU TO RIGHT THE WRONGS. TO BRING JUSTICE TO THE INJUSTICES." Yet it would do no good. Guinness remained firm. "Passports may be used as proof of identification, NOT of birth. …" Guinness spokeswoman Jamie Panas wrote to ESPN The Magazine in an email. " … Passports and other mid-to-late-life representations of age are notoriously unreliable when unaccompanied by original proofs of birth." Panas emphasized that Guinness never guaranteed that a passport would be sufficient. She also said that Sharma, the Guinness talent manager who advised Harmander, is no longer with the company. Sharma could not be reached for comment. His personal website says he left Guinness at some point last year. Fauja Singh wanted the world to watch him run. Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images JULY, 2012. It's late on a Monday morning, one of those London summer days that barely feel like summer at all -- the sky dark, a cold drizzle just moments away. At Valentines Park in the outer borough of Redbridge, there are joggers and dog-walkers and morning strollers, all walking past ponds and trees and cricket grounds before returning to their nearby homes. GALLERY The Runner: Fauja Singh Up the path walks Fauja Singh, his yellow turban matching his yellow sneakers and accented by the yellow in his black adidas shirt. He is, Fauja will have you know, the oldest man to ever run a marathon. He doesn't care what Guinness says, barely knows who Guinness is. He and Harmander have taken to minimizing the slight. "They're in the business of trivia," Harmander says. "What does it matter if Fauja's name is in the same book as the lady with the longest fingernails in the world?" Fauja insists the book means nothing, but it's clear that recognition matters. "Look at this," he'll say, showing off his certificates and awards. Then he'll ask someone to read them aloud. He may be illiterate, but he understands the weight carried by words written down. He will retire soon. His last race will be a 10K in Hong Kong on Feb. 24, just before his 102nd birthday. This, he will admit, is difficult to accept. Yet he is tired; the racing and travel have taken their toll. He will still run, though. "The day I stop running," he says, "will be the day that I die." What began as a means of distraction from that stormy night in his village so long ago is now a joy unto itself, a path toward God. So each day he comes here, or he goes to other nearby parks or to a route that winds through town, and he ties his sneakers and begins to stretch. He rolls his head and his arms, then leans forward to touch his toes. In a moment he is off, the wrinkles in his face contorting into something between a grimace and a smile. There is no crowd, no finish line, no record at stake. There is only the shuffling sound of his feet, one moving in front of the other, then again, and then again and again until he rounds the bend and he's gone.

You will never hear Dhunda promote/talk about Naam Abhiaas, Amritvela, Karma, Reincarnation, Dasam Duaar, Mool Mantar Jaap, etc. Anything to do with spirituality or anything that has a mystical aspect to it, you will never hear him positively promote it. What does he do? Negativity and criticism of others all day long. He only talks about human rights, babas and inbetween he plays politics by speaking against other parchaaraks. In the video shown above, IT IS SO FUNNY when he says "I made a copy of the video and saved it on my laptop because these people take down the videos and say nothing like that happend or that the video was edited". LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL. How funny is that? Because that's EXACTLY what his group does. They take down the videos when controversy starts, and then after people fight, a few months later they put it back up. That is one strategy of these missionaries. They make themselves look like the ones who are doing good and saving Sikhs, when they are the trouble makers in the first place. The same way these missionaries call everyone RSS, except for themselves. When in reality they are the real RSS agents. When you are a wolf in sheeps clothing, in order to not attract unwanted attention, there is a simple strategy. Call everyone else the wolf so that no one will ever suspect you of being a wolf since they think that "why would someone who is telling us who the bad guys are be a bad guy himself". BEWARE.

UKLondonSikh Veer Jee, thank you for your replies and show of love and genuine concern. Thanks for being honest that you are a major supporter/fan of the missionaries. I don't hold anything against you for that. I appreciate that you were honest. Jonny101 Veer Jee sums things up quite nicely by saying: Please take note of the following points, they are each important and are in no specific order. There are many many more points, these are just a few that come to mind at the moment. When there have already been countless katha, discussions, articles and books on the topic of meat in Sikhi, why do these missionaries have to go and tell what they think when they clearly know it's a controversial topic? If they truly are not breaking up the Sangat, they would not even bring the topic up. But no, they are too egotistic, so they like to show that they are "knowledgeable in every topic, no matter how controversial it may be. If they are truly on Sikhs' side, then why do they make fun of the people who respect Dasam Granth Sahib and Sarbloh Granth Sahib and also treat the pothis/gutkaas with very little respect at all? They mock faithful Sikhs by calling them "Dasam Granthis" and "Kalka Panthis" and stuff like that. Now you tell me how that supposedly brings the Sangat together? If they don't want to break the Sangat up, then why do they not hold discussions with Singhs who have opposite views than them? Instead they only meet with those who support their views, yet they don't hold back in critisizing others. They play a game of "keep away", where no matter how many fights and protests happen in and around Gurdwaras, they don't openly speak with those who question their views. Now you tell me how this connects the Sangat. They openly speak against Giani Sant Singh Jee Maskeen, Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jee Sri Nagar Vale, Bhai Balwinder Singh Rangila, Bhai Inderjeet Singh Bombay Vaaley (Darbaar Sahib Hazoori Raagi), Bhai Baldev Singh Vadala (Darbar Sahib Hazoori Raagi), etc. Now you can tell me when 99% of Sangat loves these people, they are openly promoting hatred against them and now lots of the Sangat is split where people love them and people hate them. Just recently in USA, Sangat and Gurdwara rejected Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee but welcomed Dhunda with open arms. You tell me how this joins the Sangat together. They don't believe in Naam Simran, Naam Abhiaas and Amritvela. They call it "totaa ratan" (parrot blabbering/repetition) and "mechanical repetition". That is uncalled for and not necessary. It clearly divides up the Sangat. Please tell me how that kind of mockery and name-calling joins the Sangat together. They are so stuck on being against "Babas", that they end up going against authentic and genuine great Sikhs who did so much for the Panth. They make blanket statements which puts great Sikhs in the same boat as the fake babas. You tell me how that joins the Sangat together. Why do they play politics by always going after Badal and SGPC. Missionaries are clearly with Sarna. They never once criticized Sarna or DGMC even though many bad things have happened in Delhi and Delhi Gurdwaras in the past 10 years alone. They are clearly playing politics. And while doing so, they try and bring down Sikhs' faith in Takhats and Jathedaars. They openly stand against Takhats and Jathedaars. Is that what someone who wants to join the Sangat would do? Another way they try and defy the Takhats and Jathedaars is by associating with anti-Sikh elements.. They and their followers deny these associations, yet it has been proven again and again that they associate with Dilgeer, Darshan Ragi, Kala-Afghana, etc. You tell me how this joins the Sangat. They never criticize their associates even when they are completely out of line. For example, Jeonwala mocked Jaap Sahib with his own version, but Dhunda was not prepared to say anything against Jeonwala... Inder Ghagga of missionary college himself denies all of Dasam Granth. Jaap Sahib and Chaupai Sahib are fake for him as well and says they came from Hindu Granths. In one of your comments above you said that we should see which parts are authentic and which parts are not...but for heaven's sake....to try and put this much doubt in Sangat's mind that even Jaap Sahib and Chaupai Sahib are not Gurbani..come on. The ardaas is accepted by the whole panth. Yet many of their associates have changed the ardaas in major ways and made their own ardaas. You tell me how this joins the Sangat together. They over-state things and make things over-emmotional to get support. Like for Dasam Granth. "Oh no, the RSS is trying to bring in another Granth and trying to take away Guru Granth Sahib Jee". Like come on, that type of emotional-manipulation is clearly not trying to connect the Sangat. There has been no controversy on Dasam Granth in hundreds of years. YET, all of a sudden Kala-Afghana, Missionaries, etc come into the picture and act as if they are saving everybody from some horrible demon. Whenever asked questions, they don't give straight answers. They give very vague answers on meat, Dasam Granth, Naam, etc. This is a tactic to leave doubts in people's minds and let people's minds do whatever they want. They and their followers lie shamelessly infront of Sangat. They put up their videos online, but when they are exposed, they take down the video. But before they take it down, there are many people who have made copies of those videos. When those copies are put up online, the missionaries lie and say "it's edited, and cut vad (copy and paste), etc". And so as a result, the missionaries' followers say the exact same thing in an attempt to discredit the people who are actually truthful and put up the original video which was taken down. Then, as time goes on and people forget about the controversy, those same videos which the missionaries took down, they put back up. Now you tell me is that joining the Sangat or breaking it? It is a fact that many fights and arguements happen at Gurdwaras around the world due to missionaries. They come, cause controversy and then leave. And the result? Well, it doesn't affect them at all. They go back to india. In the west, Sikhs' image is ruined in the media coverage showing the fighting and protests. You tell me how this joins the Sangat. If the missionaries truly had a good intention for Sikhi, they would have already addressed the controversies and problems by sitting with opposing sides in closed door room WITH VIDEO CAMERA. It is a common fact that missionaries don't like closed room talk with good quality video recording. Instead what do the missionaries do? Despite knowing that they are controversial and that lots of Sangat questions them, they still have the ego to go on Gurdwara stages. They earn thousands of dollars and go back to india, while the rest of the Sangat is made to look like fools in the media. They twist Sikh Rehit Maryada. They cleverly leave words out when explaining Sikh Rehit Maryada, such as Naam Abhiaas at Amrit Vela. Also they twist the word "Gurbani" and say that Dasam Granth Keertan cannot take place in Guru Granth Sahib Jee's Darbar. Yet it is a fact that Dasam Granth Keertan has been going on in Darbar Sahib for hundreds of years. (Maybe that's why Dhunda said that the stuff being sung at Darbar Sahib is worse than prostitutes dancing...because it is clear that Dhunda is against Dasam Granth Sahib and is clearly annoyed by how so many raagis support Dasam Granth through Keertan. Many of Dhunda followers speak against any raagi doing Dasam Granth Keertan, no matter how Chardikalaa that Raagi is.) You tell me how these clever tricks join the Sangat. They can support the human rights side of Sikhi as much as they want, but they shouldn't be trying to remove the spirituality parts of Sikhi. Sikhi is just as much about spirituality as it is about human rights and contributive lifestyle towards humanity. Missionaries have failed in spirituality side.

Back to the focus of this topic. Stepping aside from my "negativity" as some people would call it on this forum (when I expose anti-Sikh elements), I am pleased to bring you some good/positive news. Look who's in the TOP 20 MALES on the show and in the semifinals? Looking at the comments around the internet and on the youtube videos, it seems like people are learning and opening up to Sikhs. Many people are even cheering and rooting for Gurpreet and calling him attractive/cute. Nicki Minaj really seems to be supporting him a lot, which is nice to see, as she herself is "different" and "stands out" from the norm. http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/02/american-idol-reveals-the-season-12-top-40-semifinalists.html Let's take a look at Gurpreet Singh's journey on the show so far: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/14/american-idol-s-gurpreet-singh-sarin-on-singing-his-way-past-stereotypes.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxoQ5PBRETw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFIq61hFCI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPTjjrfkVgg Edit: I don't know why the last video isn't posting as a link. Just copy and paste the URL into your browser and it will take you to the youtube video. https://twitter.com/GPreetSingh90

Thanks to everyone for their advise and helping me improve! By the way, Jhatkaa analysis to come, was already in development since last week :smile2:

There is a common cause, their is a common Sangat. Sikhs are united on many many things. YET, these missionaries are the trouble makers. You know what the (corrupt) Nirmalas did when they were in control of Akal Takhat Sahib? (I understand there are many good Nirmalas too) (I read this somewhere, if I find the source I will post it) To make Sikhs fight, one day the "Panj Piaarey" would give out rehit of Kes, and another day they would give out rehit of Keski. They would alternate daily/weekly and to us it may be a small difference. But that's the thing. Creating small differences add up over time. What are these missionaries doing? Changing ardas. Playing politics by trying to remove faith in Takhats and Jathedaars. Against Naam Simran. Against Dasam Granth. But that's fine. If they believe in that, they should keep it to themselves. One proof of them trying to split up Sangat is in their name calling. They call everyone RSS/Nirmala/British-agent, etc. A few examples are: (Kavi) Bhai Sahib Bhai Santokh Singh Jee is British Agent, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha Jee is Nirmala agent. (They actively promote these kinds of titles to destroy our history). Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jee (Sri Nagar Vale), etc, are Badal agents, etc. Now you can tell me how helpful that is? Now we have people who hate them and people who LOVE them. But who's doing the hating? Oh yeah, the missionaries. So much so that Gurdwaras are turning down Parchaaraks like Pinderpal Singh Jee, and promoting Dhunda. They openly call and promote people as Dasam Granthi and Kalkaa Panthi. When Bhai Manpreet Singh Jee did Keertan and the people tried to attack him and attacked people in the Sangat...what was that? That was the pure outcome of their hatred filled parchaar.

Yes you are right Veer Jee! Thank you for the information. At least this Gurdwara has kept Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Baani. Which is kind of odd though, it's like they are admitting that these Baani's are by Guru Gobind Singh Jee by saying that "We are following Akal Takht Maryadaa". :tongue2:

To both Veer Jee's: You must realize that small steps add up in the long run. Today it is Nitnem, tomorrow it is Amrit Sanchar. Also, majority around the world (90+%) follow 5 Baani Nitnem minimum. To impose 3 Baani Nitnem at AmritVela, it breaks the Sangat apart and breaks the Anand in the Sangat. "if someone really wants to get anand out of nitneem- they will regardless with maharaj kirpa- be it 3 or 5 nitnem banis.!!!" Then why not do no Nitnem at all and just say Vahiguru once. Even for Amrit Sanchaar, let's do that. Repeat Vahiguru once and that's it. Saying Vahiguru once is infinite amount of Anand! You see how when we start getting lenient, it opens the door to finish off the basics of Khalsa Panth.

Main Points: "No mechanical repition of Naam" Association and partnership with missionary Harjinder Sabhra and associates No clear answer on Dasam Granth, putting doubt in Sangat's minds We are all brothers and sisters, no such thing as Mahapurkh or enlightened ones No clear answer on meat, putting doubt in Sangat's minds. Harjinder Sabhra: "Where we go as humans, we have to adjust our cuisine and life accordingly." <<< If that is the case, then that means Sikhi will just merge into other religions and cultures and there is no need for Sikh Rehat and Dastaar and Kes, sit on chairs and tables in langar for everyone (not just seniors/disabled) etc......Putting doubt in Sangat's minds, BEWARE. They are being loose in every answer, making Sikhi what someone THINKS is convenient for them and not what Guru Granth AND Guru Panth has decided. Therefore, they support MANmat and not GURmat. They are doing everything according to what is convienient for them. Full 3-Part Video (25 to 30 minutes in total approximately) Right Here. Make sure to record it, as I cannot record and save every little thing. Send messages to Panthic.org as well. These missionaries are saying they are so open to questions, then why don't they ever talk to AKJ, Nihungs, Taksal, etc OPENLY ON VIDEO?

Pictures are being put up, thanks for the input! Edit: Something malfunctioned where all of the pictures were removed from the post and all of the coding in the text was shown. Due to this, it is taking some time to re-adjust everything and correct the titles/grammar as well as fix the pictures. Please be patient. Also, there seems to be a limit on the number of pictures I could post in that original list. So I have tried to post some of the more needed pictures, as I cannot post all of them due to the posting limit.

onepanth.com even though it has associations with SikhRI and others, it seems to stay out of the religious/spiritual side of things and just focusing on human rights. So for now, we will keep it off the list, but we cannot let it slip under our radar either. Additions added to the list on the first page: Manjeet (Finland) (Singh Sabha Canada) Baljeet (Delhi) (Singh Sabha Canada) Sukhraj (Goindvaal) (Singh Sabha Canada) Avtaar Missionary (Singh Sabha Canada) Khalsa Nari Manch/Sikh Nari Manch - Relation with Singh Sabha Canada (as well as posting articles on that website), spokesman and possibly others Dal Khalsa (Inexcusably and notoriously supported Dhunda in UK, as well as having article posted on Singh Sabha Canada website) Karminder Dhillon ("Ph.D") (Boston) (ex-Malaysia possibly) (Singh Sabha Canada) Charnjit Bal (Singh Sabha Canada) Gurtej (Singh Sabha Canada) Dalbir (New Delhi) (Singh Sabha Canada) Mohan (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) (Singh Sabha Canada) Gurmeet Barsal (California) (Singh Sabha Canada) Parmjit Kesri (Singh Sabha Canada) Mandeep Varnan (Singh Sabha Canada)

Five Baanis of Nitnem have been in place since first Amrit Sanchaar by Guru Gobind Singh Jee, not just 1985. There are many historical proofs of this. There is no doubt about this. Let this thread/topic be focused on the Gurdwara committee's actions and what are the next steps for Sangat to take in order to solve this problem. (and for all of those people who say to me things like "let missionaries do whatever they want, just ignore them..... They can't do anything, no one follows them". WELL YOU"RE WRONG. These people have the capability of influencing the Sangat on a large scale, and I have been seeing them trying to finish Sikhi for many years now. Slowly but surely, they are progressing in their agenda. Ignoring them won't do anything. We must address the missionaries and prof. darshan singh/kala-afghana groups/associates directly and solve the problem. This is one of the biggest problems in Sikhi today. You may not know it, but it is happening right under your nose. You think these people are doing parchaar and saving you from fake babas and saving you from hinduism/brahmanism? Open your eyes and ears, think a little with your brain and see the reality of the situation. These people have put on clothes and garments similar to yours (like a trojan horse) and entered Guru's houses and your houses. Sikhi can't be defeated from the outside until the inside is destroyed first. WAKE UP.)

Stop twisting things. NO ONE said that Sikhs NEED yoga. Not even once in this topic did anyone say that. Like I said: You're not understanding one thing. The Naam is not being obtained through the yoga technique. The Naam is already there, and Naam Abhiaas is being done through a yoga technique. No one is saying that the yoga will give you Naam. The Naam is already there. The Abhiaas is just being done through slightly diffferent technique than others. Everyone has their technique of Naam Abhiaas. Some do fast, some do slow, some do singing, some do Svaas Svaas, etc. Stop having such extreme views and stop putting yourself on a pedestal to look down on others. Naam in itself is yoga. It's just the technique you use can vary amongst one's personal preference and what works for them. You can't put Naam Abhiaas into a cookie-cutter mold. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=890 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1084

Of course Veer Jee! I think we are finally getting somewhere in this discussion. Like in the original post of this thread, sunny_love-kirtan Jee gave the following link: If we look at that link and read the 46 comments, we will realise that the yoga technique in question has actually been useful and helpful to many people to do Naam Abhiaas. That's what floats their boat. They are not doing it for gain of powers, or gain of life/health. They are doing it as one type of technique of Naam Abhiaas. Who are we to say "don't do it, that's manmat, you're a moorakh. Don't focus on Naam that way." You see how bad and disgusting that type of mentality looks? "Don't focus on Naam that way". Like excuse me? Really? Focusing on Naam is one of the main pillars of Sikhi. 3H0 and Yogi Harbhajan might have many faults, but I don't think we should be picking at them in this case in which they are using a different technique than others to focus on Naam. Through Gurbani, while on their path of Sikhi, if they have obtained a teaching/interpretation of one way of possibly doing Naam Abhiaas, kudos to them. It's not controversial at all. But when people start labelling them (and calling them names and looking down on them), that's when people who want to divide Sikhs come in and start preaching/promoting an 'absolutely no yoga in Sikhi' type mentality. The people who want us to fight with eachother and create divisions, those people try and take advantage. Which is what many parchaaraks such as the missionaries have been doing. They try and make everyone all emotional and try to show everyone that they are saving them from "brahmanism" and "hinduism", and the end result is yoga gets flushed down the drain along with Naam Abhiaas and 'spirituality-type' topics. We must let small differences in Naam Abhiaas go, and we must strive to appreciate eachother's passion for connecting to Naam.

^ Dhunda has not interacted with Darshan Ragi on just one occassion. He has interacted with him multiple times. http://www.&lt;banned&gt;.com/?p=54935 When promoting him, they make him look like he is very open to questions and question period. When he goes to Toronto, please Toronto Sangat....make sure he is just as open to questions at that time. ON VIDEO RECORDING. Also one thing to watch out for is that for the past few years now, they have been going to small villages across India, and acting like they "save them". But in reality, they are just spreading lies and trying to destroy Sikhi from it's roots. ^ A round table discussion/questioning going on in Winnipeg apparently. AKJ, Taksal, Nihungs, Tapoban......All should unite together and demand round table question period as well in Toronto ON VIDEO.

Let me clear up one thing... I am not saying to not do Simran, Seva, Kirat, Good deeds, love, bairaag, Naam, have Satguru, ,etc. I am saying those are a MUST! A Sikh does not NEED "yoga". Not at all, not ever. BUT, let's say a Sikh lives a productive lifestyle, does Naam Abhiaas, Simran, Seva, Kirat, full belief and trust in Satguru, etc. And once in a while that Sikh did Oankaar and Naam Jaap through a yoga technique. Do we automatically label that person is a manmukh, a fake Sikh, and follows manmat, etc? Obviously not! BUT, that is what (some) people are doing on this forum. I know 3HO has a suspicious history among many other faults. But to label them manmukhs/following manmat and call them many other words, JUST because they focused on Naam through a yoga technique instead of a different technique? Like COME ON! Have we become that closed minded? GurdeepSinghJohal Jee says: :nono: luckysingh99 Jee says: You will see that one poster has an extreme type of view and division-creating view - that there can be NO yoga technique for Naam Abhiaas, whereas, another poster has a much more respectable view of being open minded and respecting small differences in techniques of Naam Abhiaas.

Guru is trying to tell you something, but you don't want to listen. Instead you just make up your own definitions. ^ That is not referring to yoga with a lifestyle full of Naam, Satguru, Bairaag, Love, Good Deeds, etc. That is referring to JUST doing yoga ALONE in order to connect to Vahiguru and remove bad karams. But in Gurmat, one MUST have a practical lifestyle, in order to overcome bad karams. But once again, Satguru gives us the answer. ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥੧॥ Araadhnaa in itself is Naam Simran, Pooja, Sevaa, Bhagtee and is a cleansing process and blissful process. And it is all YOGA. Read the following image file. Stop twisting word meanings and Shabad meanings.

You're clearly not understanding the theme. Just like the Dev thread, I have to keep on repeating myself. In Gurmat, Naam Abhiaas is YOGA. Satguru, Naam, Piaar, Bairaag, Good Deeds...these are all yoga. But especially Naam Abhiaas is the best yoga, since Naam is greater than all. Everyone has different ways to meditate. Not everyone is going to do Naam Abhiaas the same way. Everyone has different speeds, techniques and styles. Since Naam Abhiaas is yoga in itself, then, using a yoga technique to focus one's attention on Naam is not wrong. It is totally in-line with Gurmat. When the purpose and focus of the act itself is for Naam Abhiaas, then how can you say it's wrong? We're not talking about yoga for health, powers, etc. We're talking about Naam/Oankaar Jaap using yoga techniques. Please read this updated version of the most recent file I posted. It will explain much better. All of those Shabads you keep on posting, have the same theme. That there is no Naam or Satguru. The one I posted, you have no answer for, because there is Naam and Satguru's Kirpaa, as it clearly states, GUR DIKHLAAEE. Outside of Prof/Principal Sahib Singh Jee, you have not been able to give any example of the metaphors related towards: "closing the doors" "pitcher heart-lotus is filled/full" "water is emptied out and pitcher is set up-right" "celestial bliss is being experienced" The examples for the metaphors I gave are accurate to approximately AT LEAST 250 years ago.

GurdeepSinghJohal Jee, ਨਾ ਮੈ ਜੋਗ ਧਿਆਨ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੈਰਾਗ ਨ ਛੂਟਸਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਕੈਸੇ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਬ ਨ ਹੋਇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਖੋਜਉ ਅਸਮਾਨ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਸਮਾਨ ਨ ਦੇਖਉ ਆਨ ॥੨॥੩੪॥ Gauree, Kabeer Jee, Du-Paday: I have not practiced Yoga, or focused my consciousness on meditation. Without renunciation, I cannot escape Maya. ||1|| How have I passed my life? I have not taken the Lord's Name as my Support. ||1||Pause|| Says Kabeer, I have searched the skies, and have not seen another, equal to the Lord. ||2||34|| Please stop twisting the meanings of Gurbani by focusing on only one line again and again. Look at the whole Shabad. Like I have said before, once again, this is talking about yoga WITHOUT NAAM and without BAIRAAG and without SATGURU in the equation. You keep on saying that this one line proves that Bhagat Kabir Jee didn't do yoga? Then by your standards Bhagat Kabir Jee was a paapee and a moorakh and many other things. You must be able to understand the theme of the Shabad. Bhagat Kabir Jee isn't actually saying that he didn't do yoga, and that he didn't take support of Naam. The same way other Guru's don't actually mean they are paapees when they call themselves one. They mean it, but at the same time they don't. They say it and feel it out of nimrataa, so it's obviously within Gurbanee, but, at the same time it obviously isn't the intention of the Shabad. The intention is to bring nimrataa within the readers and also to show that WITHOUT NAAM and WITHOUT SATGURU and WITHOUT BAIRAAG, then everything is useless. So, they aren't going to put someone else down, so instead they make an example out of themselves. There is a kathaa about this by Maskeen Jee which clears this up. You must be able to recognize the theme in order to understand the bigger picture. When there is Satguru, Naam, Bairaag and Kirpaa involved......NO WHERE IN GURBANI does it say that yoga is wrong. Where there is Satguru, Naam, Bairaag/Love, Kirpaa, contribution to society, family lifestyle, virtuous lifestyle focused on good deeds, etc.....then there is nothing wrong with yoga for increasing concentration/focus on NAAM and OANKAAR and Satguru/Vahiguru. When the yoga itself revolves around Naam and is carried out specifically for the purpose of connection to Naam, then there is nothing wrong with it. Read these Shabads and you will see the common theme.....No Naam, No love, No bairaag, No good deeds, No Satguru, No contributive lifestyle.....obviously yoga would be worthless. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1335 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1406 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1590 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1591 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1477 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1774 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2142 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2159 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2415 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2532 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2790 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1288 Read all of this for more understanding:

I want to show you a whole new world within Gurbani. I know it's long and will take you approximately 30 minutes to read, but I am confident that you will appreciate this. This is very important for the discussion! Please read my first reply in this topic as a mini-introduction. Now to continue... Throughout Gurbani we see many times English translations as "pitcher filled with water" or "pitcher of heart-lotus filled with water". Do we honestly think that every single time we see those lines, that they actually mean just a pitcher full of water? Sure, it does make sense. But that is just the top layer of the true meaning. When we go deep into the topic, we realise that there is a deeper discussion going on. Gurbani is VERY DEEP and it takes an open mind to discuss/understand it. Let us not be afraid to explore a topic (like yoga) that we're uncomfortable or unknowledgeable about. In Gurbani, EVERYTHING is useless without Satgur and Naam. Just like Pun (good deeds) and Daan (charity service). Without Satgur and Naam, they are rejected just like everything else. This is because one cannot truly reap the benefits of those actions, as there is a major danger of them falling into ego, greed, anger and other troubles (due to no guidance from Satgur). But when one has Satgur, then Pun (good deeds) and Daan (charity service) is great. In the same way, yoga in itself for gain of health, powers or life is not helpful but actually mostly harmful due to possibility of drowning in ego and other troubles. But with Satgur and Naam, the yoga can be SPECIFICALLY used to increase concentration and focus towards Satgur, Vahiguru, Naam, Shabad, Dhunee, etc. And in reality, Sikhi and Sikhs plays major roles with Pun and Daan. So let's not be hypocrits by going 100% against yoga, when in the same lines of Gurbani where yoga is rejected, Pun and Daan are also rejected. Yet, Gurbani is full of examples of doing Pun and Daan and supporting it. In the same way Gurbani is full of examples of yoga. We just have to go deep into the topic to understand it. Pay attention now going forward while reading, as it is easy to lose track of what is being discussed and how the connections are made. Let us look at the following Shabad: http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2512 Prof./Principal Sahib Singh Jee explains it like this: Now, along with those meanings, there is an even deeper discussion which can take place. Like I said before, we get the words "Hirdaa Kamal Roop GhaRa". But what is the true meaning and true metaphor? Now watch the following closely for the connection.. As you see, Kumbh means pitcher, but it also takes on another meaning which is: according to yog-shaastar, a way/method of holding in the breath (a type of pranayam). And the metaphor is as shown with the word Kumbhak: Just as the kumbh (pitcher) is filled with water, likewise, to hold the breath in (this certain way) is kumbhak according to yog/yoga tradition. But what one needs to understand is that Kumbhak is the second stage of the pranayam. Poorak is the first stage, which is inhaling in a certain way. ^ Now take note that the focus throughout this process is on Oan or Oankaar. But especially while inhaling this is crucial. Because the tone has to be set from the beginning that the yoga is to connect with Vahiguru and not for health/life/power purposes. Now let's examine this Shabad. ਸੰਤਹੁ ਮਨ ਪਵਨੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਬਨਿਆ ॥ O Saints, my windy mind has now become peaceful and still. ਕਿਛੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਗਨਿਆ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ It seems that I have learned something of the science of Yoga. ||Pause|| ਗੁਰਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ਮੋਰੀ ॥ The Guru has shown me the hole, ਜਿਤੁ ਮਿਰਗ ਪੜਤ ਹੈ ਚੋਰੀ ॥ through which the deer carefully enters. ਮੂੰਦਿ ਲੀਏ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ॥ I have now closed off the doors, ਬਾਜੀਅਲੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਬਾਜੇ ॥੧॥ and the unstruck celestial sound current resounds. ||1|| The first 2 lines of the Shabad are associated with the Rahao. Bhagat Kabir Jee is narrating how his mind used to be waivering (chanchal) like the wind, but now has become tranquil and stable/under control (therefore peaceful). Bhagat Kabir Jee says that it seems that he has learned something (controlling the mind and connecting to Vahiguru) through the science (techniques) of yoga. But note, that when starting to explain, Bhagat Kabir Jee right away gives credit to Satguru. That GUR DIKHLAAEE. It is Satguru who has guided me and shown me. And what has Satguru shown? That "hole through which the deer carefully enters". This is directly related to the next part. (Make sure to keep in mind that this is not any yoga. This is yoga with GUIDANCE from Satguru and Naam. Therefore as per Gurbani, this yoga is not useless as Bhagat Kabir Jee has Satguru and Naam, therefore this yoga is quite useful to connect with Vahiguru.) Bhagat Kabir Jee says that he has closed off the doors. But before closing the doors, what did he do? He did Poorak. He inhaled by doing Oan Jaap (Oankaar Jaap) and pulled his breath inwards according to pranayam technique. Then he closed off the doors by doing Kumbhak (the second phase of the pranayam). So when doing Kumbhak, he held his breath in with control. One must understand that breath is the main lifesource for the body. Without Praan (breath), we die. When holding the breath, the indras of the body are rendered useless/incapable of functioning. Thus, the "doors" are closed. When these doors are closed, and there is no distraction at all, 100% focus is now just on the breath and the control of it. Due to this, there is 100% focus on the Oankaar Jaap which is taking place simultaniously. When there is 100% focus on Oankaar, one technically merges with Oankaar (as the mind has "died") and that's where the Anand and fun begins with the "unstruck celestial sound current" resounding. ਕੁੰਭ ਕਮਲੁ ਜਲਿ ਭਰਿਆ ॥ The pitcher of my heart-lotus is filled with water; ਜਲੁ ਮੇਟਿਆ ਊਭਾ ਕਰਿਆ ॥ I have spilled out the water, and set it upright. ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ Says Kabeer, the Lord's humble servant, this I know. ਜਉ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਤਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥੧੦॥ Now that I know this, my mind is pleased and appeased. ||2||10|| The "pitcher" is filled with water. This is also proof that Poorak took place. The "pitcher" cannot be full/filled without Poorak taking place. After Poorak taking place, Kumbhak is performed. But one must realise that they cannot hold their breath FOREVER. They can hold it for long periods of time no doubt, but not forvever, as nothing is forever (except Vahiguru). So as the focus is still on Oankaar/Vahiguru, one must release their breath in order to survive. This is where Reychak/Reychan take place, the third part of pranayam. Let us take note of what Prof./Principal Sahib Singh Jee has said about this part of the Shabad: You see, the water which was polluted with Vikaaraa has been spilled and (the pitcher) has been "set upright". Now look, in order for the water to be spilled out of the pitcher, the pitcher has to be put upside down/sideways. Then only can it be "set upright". This is where Reychak/Reychan comes into place. "I have spilled out the water" meaning he has exhaled according to pranayam techniques. Now, like the rest of this process, this is very important to pay attention to. By spilling out the polluted water, it doesn't just mean exhaling. It also means that one's avgun, maal, vikaara, paap and sins/bad deeds have been spilled out/cleaned as well. Remember, during this whole time the focus was on Oankaar Jaap/Vahiguru. Obviously the polluted water was going to be removed. ਭਰੀਐ ਮਤਿ ਪਾਪਾ ਕੈ ਸੰਗਿ ॥ But when the intellect is stained and polluted by sin, ਓਹੁ ਧੋਪੈ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੈ ਰੰਗਿ ॥ it can only be cleansed by the Love of the Name. (A side note: Another way Reychak/Reychan is part of the cleansing/healing process is that in yoga, breathing exercises [specifically exhaling] are thought as removing toxins from the body, etc...just wanted to point this out from a purely yoga/non-spiritual perspective). In order to understand this cleansing process even more, we must again look at the meaning of Reychak/Reychan and where these words come from and the meaning of it. As you can see, Reychan/Reychak also has the meaning of cleansing and curing/healing. And they come from the word Rich. And Rich means to separate and to clean. This is clearly in-line with the theme which is going on. One thing we must not forget to discuss is another meaning for Rich, which is Garabh Giraonaa. As you can see, giraonaa has two meanings. One is to fall and one is to demolish. Garabh has many meanings. There are a few especially important ones to discuss in this situation. One meaning for garabh is "the womb". The womb represents birth and consequently inevitable death for the body, because something that is born is going to die as well. So in this context, garabh giraonaa can mean to destroy the cycle of birth and death. Another meaning for garabh is "agan". Most people think that agan only means fire. But agan also takes on many different meanings through the word fire. There is the fire of anger, the fire of Maya, fire of thirst, fire of desire, fire of fear, fire of the womb, etc. These are all represented throughout Gurbani. To have these things fall or to demolish these things are some of the goals Gurbani sets out for Sikhs to accomplish. So therefore this "agan" aspect of Garabh Giraonaa is fully in-line with Gurmat. Some of the different uses of agan within Gurbani: _________________________________________ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥ Slandering others is putting the filth of others into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium. _________________________________________ ਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ Meeting with the Guru, peace is found. The fire is extinguished in His Glorious Praises. ||1|| _________________________________________ http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=73 ________________________________________ http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=71 _____________________________________ ਜਿਉ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਰੈ ਜਲਿ ਪਾਇਐ ਤਿਉ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਦਾਸਨਿ ਦਾਸਿ ॥ Just as fire is extinguished by pouring on water, desire becomes the slave of the Lord's slaves. _____________________________________ ਮਨ ਰੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ॥ O mind, become Gurmukh, and extinguish the fire within. _____________________________________ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਰੈ ਜਲੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਦੂਧੈ ਮਾਇ ॥ As thirst is quenched with water, and the baby is satisfied with mother's milk, _____________________________________ ਮਾਇਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਨ ਪੋਹੈ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਤੇ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੫॥ The fire of Maya does not affect those who are imbued with the Lord's Love; they sing His Glorious Praises. ||5|| _____________________________________ ਭੈ ਤਨਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਭਖੈ ਭੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ The fire of fear within the body is burnt away by the Fear of God. _____________________________________ http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=455 _____________________________________ http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=456 _____________________________________ http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=457 _____________________________________ etc, etc, etc....There are more than 100 examples I could give. Last but not the least, Garabh can also mean "Gupt Asthaan". Through Rich/Reychak/Reychan, this can easily be referring to the Dasam Duaar. Not to demolish the Dasam Duaar, but here "to fall/bring down" makes a lot of sense". To bring the Dasam Duaar down, would represent bringing the Dasam Duaar within reach and more accessible. So as Reychak/Reychan "spill the water" and the cleansing is taking place, access to the Dasam Duaar is actually becoming easier due to the increasing purity of the mind/soul. One must realise that now that the "pitcher" is empty and is rid of the polluted water, the pitcher is now more than ever eager and ready to have drops of Amrit fall in it and soon/surely make it overflowing! This is where one can relate to the meaning of the Shabad which is part of the original question in this thread. When the "pitcher is empty", that is when the fun is just starting and one gets to enjoy the true essence and taste of Amrit dripping down from possibly the Gupt Asthaan discussed earlier. Just as Bhagat JaiDev Jee's chanchal mind was controlled and he got to taste Amrit and enjoy the celestial bliss, in the same way Bhagat Kabir Jee (THROUGH SATGURU's GUIDANCE AND KIRPAA) found a way to control his chanchal mind by focusing on Oankaar/Vahiguru and in the end he got to enjoy the celestial bliss and peace of mind. And to end off, why not end off the same way as Prof./Principal Sahib Singh Jee did! Disclaimer: To my knowledge, I have never intentionally practised any form of yoga for any gains/benefits. I don't plan on doing so either. I am not a fan of Yogi Harbhajan Singh or of 3HO or any affiliated group/organization. Infact, I am more critical of them if anything. So don't judge what I wrote thinking I'm some 3HO, yoga loving person. Because I'm not. But that doesn't mean that we should think with a closed mind. Sikhi and Gurbani is much more deeper than we often think. The missionaries/kala-afghana/tarksheel type groups often try to limit Sikhi and Gurbani within a very small box. I spent many hours writing these types of explanations, doing research through various resources. It's easy to just throw out quotes from Prof/Principal Sahib Singh Jee. But as you should have realised from reading the above, Prof Sahib Singh Jee's work alone cannot give you the WHOLE answer. You will need to dig even deeper than that and be able to research from other sources and connect the dots. Once again, let's stop being anti-hindu, anti-yoga, anti-mythism, anti-mystical, anti-sanskrit, etc. Let's stop trying to make Gurbani say what we want it to say, and instead let us just be able to read/listen and take it for what it really is. People have already become so anti-hindu/anti-history/anti-culture/anti-traditional, that they have spoke against Dasam Granth. Guru Granth Sahib Jee is what they are really after. And one day, they will try to finish it off after cornering it against a wall. Keep an open mind once again about the depths of Gurbani. There is more to a "pitcher full of water" or "pitcher heart-lotus filled with water" than meets the eye. Long read, I know. But if you are truly passionate about Sikhi, you should be willing to spend hours reading and researching. Thanks.

It is amazing how far the missionary/kala-afghana/tarksheel approach has affected the mindsets of today's Sikhs. Keep an open mind. There is a difference between the following: 1. Yoga for health maintenance/gain, lifetime gain, yoga for attempt to gain 'powers', etc. and 2. Yoga for increasing concentration and focusing/concentrating on Naam/Shabad/Dhunee/Vahiguru/Oankaar. In Gurbani, EVERYTHING IS USELESS (including yoga) if one does not have (attention towards) Satgur and Naam and actually live a purposeful and practical life full of virtues. One can have a Mantar/Mantra to concentrate on, but without Satgur, it is not helpful because one cannot control that Mantra towards positive outcomes due to lack of guidance (no Satgur). Also without Satgur, one can do Jaap of the Mantra, but can easily drown in ego and other things due to lack of guidance from Satgur. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4880 BUT...when one has Satgur and is following Satgur, and one is focused on/towards Naam and Vahiguru/God, then even yoga can be useful/helpful to connect towards Satgur/Vahiguru/Naam/Dhuni/Shabad. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3601 from the above Shabad, focus on: ਜਬ ਕੁੰਭਕੁ ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ ਲੀਣਾ ॥ When I was focused and merged into the all-pervading Lord, ਤਹ ਬਾਜੇ ਅਨਹਦ ਬੀਣਾ ॥੩॥ then the unstruck sound current began to vibrate. ||3|| ^ The English translations do not do justice towards the true meaning of the lines. Because the meaning of Kumbhak is not even mentioned. Instead, Kumbhak got lost in translation to mean "focused". But how does it mean focused and what exactly is Kumbhak? The following image file will answer that along with the original question in this thread. It will all make sense. Keep an open mind. Stop being anti-hindu/anti-yoga/anti-mystical/anti-mythism, etc. Everything has it's place.

Additions added to the list on the first page: Bibi Inderpal Hardev Shergill (Sacramento) Tarbedi Sinh (ex-Khalsa Primary School, Slough/UK) Giani/Bhai Amrik Singh (Chandigarh) (Might be a shock to many like it was to me, but for a couple of months now it seems that he has fallen into the hands of the missionaries. Within the past few months he came on a couple of episodes of the Saturday morning weekly show called "Gurbani" on 'VisionTv' in Canada. That show is notorious for it's connections with Kala-Afghana, Missionaries, Darshan Ragi, etc. Aside from that, the missionaries themselves have been promoting him as well for a couple of months now. They don't promote people for no reason. There is clearly something going on it seems like to me. Sad, but true. He was a good parchaarak.) Raghubir Samagh (Host of "Gurbani" show on 'VisionTv' in Canada) Bibi Jugraj Batth

http://www.&lt;banned&gt;.com/?p=54911 "Gurmat Seminar" 17 Febuary 2013, 12:30pm-4:00pm Taaj Banquet Hall (Khalsa Business Centre, Surrey)

In no particular order: Gurbaksh (Gurbax) Kala Afghana Professor Darshan Ragi Professor Sarbjit Dhunda Professor Inder Ghagga Gurcharan Brar Jeonwala Harinder Sabhra Giani Professor Gurbachan Thailand Giani Jagtar Jachak Giani Gurbax (Gurbux) Gulshan Veer Bhupinder Dr Harjinder Dilgeer Bhai Panthpreet Khalsa Gurjant Rupowali Bhai Brahmjeet Sarhali Sukhwinder Dadehar Paramjit Uttarakhand Paramjeet Sarna and Associates of Delhi Gurdwara Management Comittee Giani Jasvir (Jasbir) Vancouver Kuldeep - Radio 'Shere Punjab' Giani Surjit Missionary Chamanjeet Lal (Ragi) Joginder Spokesman Harinder (SikhRI) Tiger Jatha UK Singh Sabha Canada Gurmat Gian Missionary College (Ludhiana) Guru Granth Da Khalsa Panth Sikh Lehar/Sikhi Lehar Khalsa News (website) Sikh Marg (website) Gurmat Parchar Jatha (leader: Baldev) Manjit Sihota Karamjit Gill Amandeep Kang Gurmit Sinh Parminder Parmar Jasbir Mangat Bibi Inderpal Hardev Shergill (Sacramento) Tarbedi Sinh (ex-Khalsa Primary School, Slough/UK) Giani/Bhai Amrik Singh (Chandigarh) (Might be a shock to many like it was to me, but for a couple of months now it seems that he has fallen into the hands of the missionaries. Within the past few months he came on a couple of episodes of the Saturday morning weekly show called Gurbani on 'VisionTv' in Canada. That show is notorious for it's connections with Kala-Afghana, Missionaries, Darshan Ragi, etc. Aside from that, the missionaries themselves have been promoting him as well for a couple of months now. They don't promote people for no reason. There is clearly something going on it seems like to me. Sad, but true. He was a good parchaarak.) Raghubir Samagh (Host of Gurbani show on 'VisionTv' in Canada) Bibi Jugraj Batth Manjeet (Finland) (Singh Sabha Canada) Baljeet (Delhi) (Singh Sabha Canada) Sukhraj (Goindvaal) (Singh Sabha Canada) Avtaar Missionary (Singh Sabha Canada) Khalsa Nari Manch/Sikh Nari Manch - Relation with Singh Sabha Canada (as well as posting articles on that website), spokesman and possibly others Dal Khalsa (Inexcusably and notoriously supported Dhunda in UK, as well as having article posted on Singh Sabha Canada website) Karminder Dhillon (Ph.D) (Boston) (ex-Malaysia possibly) (Singh Sabha Canada) Charnjit Bal (Singh Sabha Canada) Gurtej (Singh Sabha Canada) Dalbir (New Delhi) (Singh Sabha Canada) Mohan (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) (Singh Sabha Canada) Gurmeet Barsal (California) (Singh Sabha Canada) Parmjit Kesri (Singh Sabha Canada) Mandeep Varnan (Singh Sabha Canada) More individuals, groups, organizations, and associates to come...stay tuned. Edit: **Additions will be posted in various colours so that readers can quickly recognize newly added names.**