Ranjeet01

If the Sikh bride does not have Anand Karaj, the likelihood is that they will have a registry marriage if it is a white guy. Our girls never leave their pekheh and generally try to steer their husband's from his own family to her own family. Therefore any children she has will spend time with their nankeh, going to Akhand Paths, and to various gurdwaraeh functions so they are not actually lost to Sikhi.

So what happens if a Muslim male has Anand Karaj with Sikh female. Then afterwards the Sikh girl has to convert in order to do nikah. Even by explaining and going through the Anand Karaj, the couple may do it for show, the kids they have are non-Sikh and lost to Sikhi forever.

"Ranjeet Ji isn't blocking a Sikh who wishes to marry by Anand Karaj a de facto alienation of that person and their future generations of children away from Sikhi? I myself wholeheartedly support the ejection of the Hindu Mahants by the Akali Singh Sabha Lehar so I don't agree with your analogy being relevant to the point. As the Hindu Mahants that worked for the British actively excluded people from entering Gurdwara's whereas the Akali Singh Lehar freed entry to all people in tandem with everything Sikhi stands for. If around 20% of marriages denied an Anand Karaj each generation won't lead to our Panth's demographic decline in the long term then I don't know what will." DTF I do not agree with your premise. We need to uphold the standards here and not bend to the whims of a few people. If we accommodate too much all you will be doing is creating a far more potent problem greater than some hypothetical demographic scenario. It would be interesting to see what the percentage of Sikhs who marry out would be. But there needs to be far more education of what the Anand Karaj is and what has happened in Southall has opened a lot of people of what Anand Karaj entails. I place more emphasis to the sanctity of our Maharaj than to some perceived reduction in Sikh population. If those people decide to leave Sikhi because they did not want to follow the rules then I wish them well in the future. From a Sikh perspective, they would be self-willed Manmukh.

DTF Nobody has alienated Sikhs who engaged into mixed - marriages. There needs to be protocols that have to be followed none the less. The case at Southall Gurdwara is a blessing in disguise because it brings to light what is going on for a lot of people not aware of what is going on. If this was dealt with in a clandestine way then the commitee members would keep on getting away with things which would mean more further problems down the line. It's like how things were between the end of Khalsa Raj and pre Singh Sabha era, when the Masands were booted out and the murtis were removed from Hari Mandir. If Sunny Hundal was around in those days, he would called them fanatics and extremists as well. Also, by removing murtis and masands, there were no - one being alienated and any kind of demographic decline either, people of all creeds and races are still welcome.

It is precisely Muslims would have have kicked up a much bigger fuss if a nikah happened and what the repercussions would be far greater that they would not dare say anything. This type of attack and labelling Sikhs as fundamentalists is because they think can get away with it precisely because Sikhs are far more tolerant. These Nihal/Friction/Hundal types have a warped mindset in thinking that they will keep prodding with foolish comments and then cry wolf when someone gives them a befitting reply. We Sikhs are by in large are easy going, tolerant bunch but others mistake that for weakness and try to take advantage of it. When we stick up for ourselves we are called Taliban and fundamentalists. I wonder what the background of Hundal/Friction is. I reckon there is some Hindu Punjabi in there somewhere. I recall seeing Friction on a documentary in the late 1990s on the BBC. I remember him stating that he likes nothing better than seeing Asian girls losing it sexually on the dance floor, that's how much a k*njar he is. They interviewed his parents, his dad was playing pool in the Glassy Junction and he was speaking this weird Hindi/Punjabi hybrid language, my parents were making fun of him. His mother looked Hindu Punjabi, it's that particular short boy hair cut that is dyed tinted with a light brown/reddish highlight. Hundal's whole rant came from his Skype with his mother. If he was any sort of journalist he would have investigated properly rather than going by heresay.

I think the youth members need to learn from this. Understand how the corrupt commitee operates and counter their tactics when the next group of elections take place. The corrupt commitee are on borrowed time and there will be a passing of the guard.

The commitee members are the ones that need to be tackled. We need to devise a system where these commitee members are vetted. So Sikh Council UK ,Sikh Federation & other Sikh orgs that might be lurking on this website if you are listening. You guys need to get your heads together and enforce the Rehit Maryada more stringently.

People who say they were driven away because of disallowing AK in gurdwarae were never into Sikhi anyway. There will be plenty of Sikh - Sikh AKs to fill their place. If hypothetically, there are less AKs in gurdwarae it may be a good thing as gurdwarae will have re-think what their function is. They would have to think about serving the needs of the Sangat and Parchar rather think of being a money making enterprise.

I think the reason is that ignorant Sikhs for all their lack of knowledge by in large will still hold Maharaj Ji in the utmost esteem. A non-Sikh whether they are theist or atheist will not.

+100.

I think a lot of our people are stuck in the matrix and they need to take the red pill. It is a bitter pill to swallow but it is a necessary one. Some of our people will prefer to take the blue pill and stay in the matrix. The people who agree with Sunny/Friction are people who are not into Sikhi (blue pillers) and then try to rationalise to fit it into their narrative, they undergo such verbal gymnastics. The people who are into Sikhi understand clearly what is happening. The more into Sikhi one gets, the more we realise the world is like the matrix and it takes off the blinkers that blind so many. That is why it is important for Sikhi to be instilled into our youth, so they grow up as much as possible without the blinkers.

The BBC Asian Network is intentionally filled with a particular type of Asian that really in their private lives do not identify with their culture of origin. They are coconuts who use their heritage as a vehicle to build their own careers. The BBC is a relic of the British empire which uses these Nihal/Friction types as the Anglophile/McCaulyites who ran British India but transformed this format to fit in within their media format. The leftist metropolitan elite that run the BBC have a particular agenda where they have a definition/model of what the British Asian should be like and then try to socially engineer this using the likes of Friction/Nihal. It is a shame that being follow opinions without seeing things critically,people are being brainwashed and they do not even realise it.

I think it would have been better if it came from an Amritdhari, Sunny boy claims threats were made as per a video showing the apparent threat. Either Sunny 's Punjabi is shockingly poor, or his definition of a threat is a completely different definition from the rest of us. The BBC license fee is up for negotiation soon and I expect budget cuts, it may be the case that British Asian Network may be axed and it will dampen the fuel for publicity for the likes of Friction and Nihal. But I think a lot of positives will come out of this. For this happen in the Havelock Gurdwara will set an example for the other Gurdwarae.

I applaud for those guys who made a stand. Their disrespect for the Granthi and Commitee member was necessary as our Maharaj ji is the ultimate elder which they have disrespected. How can one respect elders when those elders do not respect their elders. If your father tells you to respect them as the elder but proceed to disrespect your grandfather or great - grandfather what kind of example is this setting? I contacted the Sikh Federation yesterday as they been heavily involved on twitter and suggested that perhaps the UK needs to have a Gurdwara watchdog to ensure that all Gurdwarae follow the correct protocol as per the rehit maryada. If any Gurdwarae is caught doing beadbi, the Gurdwara should be fined and commitee members should be stripped off the commitee member status, named and shamed. If they attempt to use 3rd world tactics of bribing, it should be publicised . There is no other language that these types understand. If there an issue of bringing younger sangat into the management, then perhaps an age limit needs to be brought in. Just some thoughts.

The problem with a lot of the Muslims particularly with the ones who are Punjabi is that even though they are Punjabi through and through they identify more with the foreign invaders that converted them. This is part of the perception particularly from the Hindu. An example is when India named a missile Prithvi (it was named after one of the elements - air, fire,water). However, Pakistani thought it was named after a king called Prithvi Raj Chauhan who was defeated by an Afghan called Gauri and they named their missile after him. The irony is that Gauri raped, pillaged and plundered his way through Punjab, yet these same Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan see him as a hero even though it was their own ancestors that we're raped,pillaged and plundered. Funny enough, Prithvi Raj Chauhans descendents are now muslims living in Pakistan.

You need to grow a pair and put your foot down!

General Zia was from Doaba. I believe that there is an area in Amritsar called Sharifpur (or something similar) which is where Nawaz Sharif's family hails from.

Is it not strange that someone from J&K can move into Punjab and other states yet due to Article 370 no one from other states can move into J&K.Nawaz Sharif the prime minister of Pakistan is from one of these families that were Amritsar Kashmiris.

Hindus and Sikhs were part of the fabric in West Punjab. Sikhs were involved in clearing the jungles to create the canal colonies, Sikhs played a large part in Lyalpur (now known as Faisalabad) Hindus dominated a lot of the businesses in Lahore, Sikhs dominated land and business in Sialkot and Rawalpindi. Where are the Sikhs and HIndus now? I don't see what the point of looking is in looking into the past with this pre-partition fetish, those days aren't coming back. Let us focus on the question in hand. Is there really an Islamifisation of East Punjab, if this is the case then they will have to compete with the Christian Evangelisation and Derafication. It would be against the RSS's interests to see Sikhs obliterated from Punjab as these types see us as useful tools, if there are no Sikhs left they will lose their buffer on the western border. They know that the Hindu Punjabi will do nothing and run like cowards which is why RSS has been keen to ensure that any Sikhs being enticed to become Christian should remain Sikh as a Christian Punjab will mean foreign intervention if it decides to break away. Even though I do not trust Hindutva groups, we cannot tar them with them with the same brush as they all have different motivations. RSS is a different animal to the Shiv Sena. Shiv Sena are a bunch of thugs whereas the RSS are more strategic in their thinking. The problem with us Sikhs is that we are too emotionally driven, we need to think more rationally with clear heads and think more strategically.We need to study our opponents and understand the bigger picture. This is part of being a Sant-Sipahi.

Punjab is a frontier state, it is heavily militarised, so the terrorists will attack what they believe is a soft target.

Some folk have this pre-partition fetish out of a Khushwant Singh novel or a Sunny Deol role in Gadar. Even people that lived during these times look back in nostalga but realise that is no longer the reality.

The elders will do bug**-all, time to sweep them to one side.

The Machivallean would try to turn Christian and Islamists against each other. If Hindutva groups want to join the ruckus, they should be allowed to and then Sikhs can pick up the pieces post aftermath. However since Sikhs are "White Knights" and protect the rights of everyone except their own, this will not happen rightly or wrongly. Question is how we can protect others but ensure that we will be stabbed in the back by the same people who we protected in the future. We Sikhs go out of our way to help others, but who helps us? Are we Sikhs a soft touch that get taken advantage of time and time again?

http://time.com/3982259/perhaps-india-shouldnt-get-too-excited-about-reparations/

Well you are going to get a degree of anglification the longer you live here especially when you may be a third or fourth generation Sikh. I do not think it can be avoided. How would define the white dream?