crayzy

that was the whole point of non raag kirtan... to make kirtan accessible to the less knowledgeable and draw them up to a level where they can appreciate raag. so...well done my friend. Some woman kirtani should just walk in and start doing kirtan.

To have Guru Sahib Darshan jnm mrx kI mlu ktIAY gur drsnu dyiK inhwl ]2] janam maran kee mal katteeai gur dharasan dhaekh nihaal ||2|| The filth of birth and death is washed away, and one is uplifted, beholding the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan. ||2|| Why do I want to wash my filth away? Coz I want to be clean. WHy? Because when Guruji cleans me I will not be born again. Why dont I want to be born? Because I dont want to get entangled in the pain of maya again. WHy? coz I want to be with my beloved. I dont so...no comment because hir Awpy sbdu suriq Duin Awpy ] har aapae sabadh surath dhhun aapae || The Lord Himself is the Word of the Shabad. He Himself is the awareness, attuned to its music. i sing kirtan in the hope of merging in the naad. Why? because that is where the Guru lives? Why do I want to be there? Because he is my beloved.

its not a ritual its an illogical decision made after some crazy woman tried to poison the langar.

seeing as youre part of the Gurudwara why not rally the youth and fight it from the inside stage a protest run for a seat on the committe representing the youth its basic politics. make your presence felt so that they bend to what you want - the louder your voice the more likely you'll be listened to. How exactly do people get on to the committee - who votes them on?

what do you mean by rec centre?

search the sikhnet site for it

he may be sarcastic but I agree these 'modern' ideas were around long before Sikhi. As far as hair being unhygienic - have a shower everyday...

well they are not mutually exclusive - the trick is knowing the difference between true and false, which with Gurprasad we amy get one day. plenty of times people turn up to Mahaprush talking about pret then get told 'kuch nahi haiga' other times people sit there and as soon as Mahaprush does namaskar pret starts speaking from inside. Some people who through paath can see the journey theyve been on before reaching this life have recounted their experiences You still dont acknowledge that these pret are mostly looking for forgiveness and naam like the rest of us. At the end of the day its non consequential, but if ever you see something bear in mind that there could be a reason; and handing ourself in to a crazy house may not be the right thing to do. =p

no its still a metpahor =/ Im not saying this doesnt happen, but thats besides the point. suleman spoke in 2 different people, the child born the family he agreed to go to could remember everything that had happened to him as related to sangat when he was a pret. some people are crazy - I dont doubt it much. But pret talking in humans is the only way normal people see that side of existence. Otherwise if you become an anbhavi Gursikh in chauthey pad you'll be able to see pret as clearly as you see normal people today. the story, which has a recording, the backing of Mahapursh etc etc? yes if seva eased the malady what makes you think it wasnt a pret that left her alone after she helped the family. nobody said you insulted gurbani - you were using insults as if they were a valid tool for discussion. interpret it how you like, thats your choice. But my interpretation has the backing of all great Gursikhs in the recent past. nobody said you did this

from the tone of the shabad. The one about clay is clearly a metaphor, the one about reincarnation is not obviously a metaphor. read it - it says will *come back/be reincarnated* as a prostitute etc not is ... 'remove a pret'?? remove it from where? pret is joun - you still have a hollywood idea of pret of possesion and them being evil. In the suleman case he spoke inside the bod of manmohan singh because of manmohan singh's bad deeds in a past life directly against suleman - he was reaping his bad karm. Leading them back to what superstition - why should they go to pandits etc, why not have an akhand paath, listen to the paath, participate in the seva and do an ardas for the pret. Im not saying people dont fake it, go to pundits etc thats all besides the point. but *do they exist*? I have seen more than enough evidence to say they do. Until you have Gurbani saying it doesnt, and a method of argument other than insulting records of such events then I hve no reason to give credbility to your argument. you said you're pretty old - I'm still studying, I only argue the way I'm used to on research papers, no intention to offend

double post

You know crazy I am willing to leave let things be but you clearly are not. You have proved nothing but how much of an immature person you are. You have not proved there are ghosts. All you have proved is that you are not capable of debating in a civilised manner with a fellow Sikh. That is incredibly lame. The footnote I have states: All men are moulded from the same clay, but the potter has fashioned it into vessels of numerous forms. Now does that mean we are all made of clay? or have we developed and learned over the years that Guruji knew that the common man could not understand the concept molecules, amino's, muscles etc and the only way he could describe it to us common folk was to describe it as clay. Or are we actually made of clay Crayzy? Astound us with some new medical facts crazy as you claim to be wiser and cleverer than all of us on this forum. So are we made of clay as it states in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Just answer this basic question before moving onto more complex subjects such as this? Astound us with your command of the English language? 156028[/snapback] As I expected...no reply 156677[/snapback] i thought you were willing to let it go...i guess not so what has this quote got to do with the thread? did I say there were no metpahors in Gurbani? no I actually quoted this same shabad in another thread to show an example of a metaphor. The other shabad about snakes, prostitutes and pret was not metaphorical, but as usual you avoid the subject and bring up non relevant examples. You keep bringing up metaphorical shabads - no one is discussing the presence of metaphors, we are discussing th existence of pret. I have quoted a non metaphorical shabad, accept it if you want, don't if you don't. I havent denied anything: are metaphors used in Gurbani? - yes do people live like pret? - yes do pret exist? - yes, and Ive shown you a non metaphorical shabad to back it up. you are the one that keeps saying pret don't exist. Show me where this is mentioned.

practice sitting like that - when youre reading, studying, watching tv, sit cross legged

Sikhs are SIkhs by definition not by name if someone calls themsleves Singh/Kaur and goes around drinking, saying their kids should only marry x caste and not y caste and that girl children are unwanted then they are not SIkhs period. yea they need education, but who is gonna give it to them? the GOI? not in amillion years.

its a movie about football <.< which depicts a realistic view of someone that isnt very religious

erm no it doesnt

eyko pvxu mwtI sB eykw sB eykw joiq sbweIAw ] eaeko pavan maattee sabh eaekaa sabh eaekaa joth sabaaeeaa || There is only one breath; all are made of the same clay; the light within all is the same. If yo read the Gurmukhi you'll see that it could be translated as all are of the same mould, rather than of the same clay. Be careful with transaltions Besides, its usually obvious when a metpahor is used, coz the meaning doesnt cahge eevn if it is taken literally. The point of the shabad is to show that no one is better than anyone else coz of ohysical/worldyly details - the meaning would hold whether taken literally or metaphorically. but look at these shabads Drmrwie no AwiKEnu sBnw dI kr bMd KlwsI] dhharamaraae no aakhioun sabhanaa dhee kar ba(n)dh khalaasee|| He asked the god of death, Dharamrai, to relieve all their suffering. and iqs no johih dUq Drmrwie ]1] this no johehi dhooth dhharamaraae ||1|| The messengers of the Righteous Judge of Dharma shall hunt them down. ||1|| If you want to read the rest etc just copy paste the line into sikhitothemax and itll find it for you.

I agree with japmans dont stop being her friend, Sikhs are supposed ot be Nirvair

no you havent blown it - there are many many jugtis to doing simran. as a beginner, I would say that doing it with sehaj is the best way to keep concnetration but different strokes for diffrent folks n all that

it says the screenshots with guns were just for testing and they wont appear in the final game

i don see a problem jsut dont let the cat walk all over maharaji, and maybe dont let it into the darbar sahib.

which isn't much

oh so now they didnt exist either none of your quotes say anything against the existence of pret. try again PS you still havent dropped the hollywood idea that pret are all evil 'bogeyman'

did anyone go?

when you do paath the room should be fragranced I think according to the rehit, not sure