sikhiseeker

WJKK WJKF Yea I agree. The sangat should rally around nationally and raise the issue with the council. No way should this be permitted to go ahead.

WJKK WJKF, Unfortunately, many people have hijacked sikhi under the banner of their various castes. If the sikhs what understand equality stand strong and say no to caste in any situation and in any acceptance of caste, slowly we maybe able to claim back our Nirmal panth from the caste harbouring so called sikhs. Keep on searching for the rishta, waheguru will heed the call of his true gursikhs. When an amrit dhari asks for your ancestral background, voice a thundering readdressing to the person who drank the holy nectar and has insulted the guru by their question, as khalsa ji you are the guru panth and have the very right to grab firmly back your beloved sikhi. Stay strong khalsa ji, don't loose heart! WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Unbelievable right! Maybe the best way to deal with this issue is to contact the Akal takhat directly in the form of a letter or maybe the Uk Sikh Council? WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Dear Mehtab Singh, Sorry for my staggered post. Each paragraph is a reply to the response in order of your replies paragraphs. Again sorry. Firstly, thankyou for replying in English, I hope you understand my point of view. Secondly, why would you be surprised at the length of my post and me saying I lead a busy life and will reply to you when I get a chance? Obviously you are implying that I am lying? Lol why dear brother would I need to lie on such a trivial thing? I have replied to you when I got a chance, literally! What does the length of my post or my personal schedule have to do with this in anyway? Thirdly, the fact that you have received more than several complaints from the sangat contributing to this forum about my topics being controversial demonstrates the insecurity of those such members that they through debate cannot challenge or converse about the topic in question. Rather complain about the topics controversy as it does not go with the grain of mainstream sikhi, albeit wrong or right. The whole of this correspondence to one another had stemmed from me disagreeing with your comment on the "bhappe" issue. As I see it, like you said subjectively, caste is against the principles if sikhi and if mainstream sikhi harbours this, it should be highlighted and corrected, not followed as it is not sikhi! I'm sure some wise sikhs as you stated will correct me if I'm wrong. The only reason why my topics are locked and sometimes totally wiped, is really because again, the opinion is in difference with "mainstream" sikhi. Again my topic in question in regards to animal products being used by sikhs was locked and wiped? Why, does it highlight a discrepancy Mehtab Singh? Hence why it should be permitted to be discussed. WJKK WJKF WJKK WJKF Dear brother, Sorry for hijacking your post and taking it to a totally different direction. This happened also on your thread about the history of the moguls lolz. Sorry brother! WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Really inspiring post, thankyou' WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Totally agree with your point. A pag and a Kara instantly make some one think their sikh. It's like how in the uk, many of my English friends do not believe in 1 line of the bible, yet as they celebrate Christmas, getting drunk, eating till they drop and other frolicking around without going to Christmas mass, or following any other Christian tennet, their Christian lol. Mirrored by our own community. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Thankyou for writing in English, also you have confused a complaint with a suggestion. I feel that you have missed my point in regards to the benefit in writing posts in English in correspondence to one another so that other non panjabi speaking sikhs can benefit from the posts also not every person born from panjabi descent has a 100% grasp of the language. I have not stated that when learning and quoting gurbani it should be written in English!? In terms of gurbani a written quote in gurmukhi and an English and romanised translation is fine. We all know that the full knowledge of gurbani is better understood in Gurmukhi. However in normal correspondence, I have only suggested that it be written in English so the topic and posts can be followed and understood by all sikhs of different linguistic skill levels. I do not see the issue here. Also, as you stated my view point that caste is the most detrimental issue concerning sikhi is my opinion, however I do not need to be told that I put "more strength into this topic than learning/speaking/understanding/writing panjabi as it is patronising and as you said, subjective. My response to being passionate was directed at my passion for my sikhi, not anyone else's so the strength I put into my sikhi will always be 100%, never 1% less. The topics I start on this platform are for the sangat to debate at present. Events take place what change opinion, opinion is ever changing so why is a topic in 2008 relevant to me in 2014. I want to debate and understand people and learn from other peoples opinions, younger and older. Also if I started a topic which did not have no posts in reply I would understand your point. If a problem which was around in 2002 is still present in 2014, shall we just read the 2002 posts or speak on the matter at present? It's not the case that I have not seen the response I like, however it's a case that you do not agree with my response and allow it to be debated. I have never regarded myself as guru nanak ji? Quite frankly I do not understand how you came to the conclusion that I have? My point was guru nanak dev ji on his travels would of spoke in the language of the country, not panjabi. Please correct me if in wrong. Thankyou for your suggestions, as you know a number of my topics have been locked. This maybe because they seem or are controversial however I believe they should be discussed as then through debate, other opinions can be understood and taken upon from both schools of thought. This should be done within a adult manner and with respect as we are all sikhs. I am not here for arguments, cussing or abusing people. This is evident from my posts. I am not here for the sake of arguing as you have stated, however if I read something to which I disagree with, I have the right to challenge that opinion and question it through debate via this forum, as does someone else have the same right to obviously disagree with me in an mature manner not like children within a playground. Again as I suggested to you when a number of my posts were not just locked, but totally wiped like the saki of guru gobind Singh and madho das, they should be permitted to be debated, basically can we only debate within the lines of sikhsangat.coms version of sikhi? What they say in regards to sikhi goes in essence? I have not been able to watch one minute of the videos you posted on the above topic or respond to you as it has totally been wiped.....again. That must be the "so-called" freedom you mentioned right? Also this whole post which you quoted was actually for the attention of my brother SINGH4PEACE? Did you basically disagree with my opinion on the posts in regards to "bhappe" as that was what I had originally stated? To which I received posts in reply in panjabi which I asked then to be sent in my adopted "boli, angrejji" (ENGLISH) so everyone can benefit from the posts! WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKFNot every sikh is panjabi speaking or panjabi born. Their are many sikhs born around the world. Also punjabi bolni/likhni/sunani/parne in my view is not as important as the jaat paat issue, this is the sole issue which holds sikhi back. I am still awaiting your response to the topic on bhangra artsits who promote caste, maybe they like you think caste is not such an important issue commanding " jaeda" importance as you stated. Also I find it extremely gobsmacking how a fellow sikh is trying to ridicule another fellow sikh on thier passion for sikhi and the issues affecting sikhi. Learning the sikh principles is fundematal to becoming a sikh first. Panjabi is a language. Sikhi is a way of life. Do you think guru nanak spoke panjabi in Baghdad or China and told them to learn panjabi before the principles and tenets of sikhi? So please again as I stated refrain from patronising me as we are all sikhs here. The reason why I ask for replies to be written in English is so that all non panjabi speaking or reading people can benefit from reading and engaging in posts made. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF I am not quite sure what you have written. Please correspond back in English. Thankyou WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Dear Mahaan Singh, All of the above is fine for the history of how, where and in what context the term"bhappe" has been used however at present, it is used as a affiliation with caste for the majority of panjabi's. Just like how jatt is termed for a person in the occupation of farming, it is now affiliated with caste. Wr should not take pride in caste affiliation. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Yep definately, I also think when amrit dhari and one does beadbi of the amrit, it is at a much more heavy penalty than someone who is not, as the amrit dhari chose to abide by a rehat which does not belong to them and was gifted by the guru. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF The caste affiliation terms like "bhappe", "jat" or "chamar" should have no place within sikhi albeit mainstream sikhi. If mainstream sikhi uses these terms and it is generally accepted, I would differ with mainstream sikhi, as the people who deem it to be right are actually wrong. WJKK WJKF WJKK WJKF I agree with your point totally, when oh when are the caste affiliations gona go right? WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF I think his name is Niddar Singh from the West Midlands in the uk. He is quite handy when it comes to Shastar vidya but had a few opinions which didn't go with majority so he had to go and do maffie at akal takhat ( I think) WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF I'm no sure what K. S Makhans antics are and what his goal is but I have no issues with dharmic geet sung about bhagat ravidas within the sikh context, however when one associates bhagat ravidas with the term guru of sat guru it becomes out of the sikh context obviously, again if this is being associated with sikhi, it's needs to be condemned. That nihang guy was reprimanded for his views, why not K.S Makhan? WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Many sikhs have an outright no to the consumption of meat in regards to a sikhs diet as does sikhsangat.com aswell. This topic maybe locked due to that reason. However, the notion of being meat and egg free is not all what makes up a sikh and being vegetarian alone will not gain you mukhti. There are many contributing factors which will gain you mukhti, if one decides to take amrit, are you willing to battle the fires of kaam, krodh, mo, lobh and hankar until the day you die? Also any affiliation with your caste? Are you ready to train to use your guru given kirpan? You have questioned whether by feeding met to your pets with somehow invalidate your amrit sanchar, yet when you sit and sing the praises of waheguru in a gurdwara, as I have stated in many posts, you will pluck the stings of an musical instrument made from an animal product also whilst beating the skin of a dead goat on a tabla! If your view is as the above stated, have you considered your use io such things which use animal by products like leather? Waheguru is within everything, the sikhs goal is not to make a meat and egg free society, however to serve justice, live honestly and gain mukhti by service and equality of all, WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Again, your totally right, caste should be abolished on all levels unfortunately caste is still written on the hearts on minds of many a sikh in high positions of responsibility. Even sikhs on here show their condemnation on the meat issue, yet with caste they kinda find some form of justification, WJKK WJKF

The thing is even if science had a break through and could prove reincarnation happens, the Abrahamic faiths would only hide the evidence as they have done in the past, as it invalidates Judaism, Islam and Christianity. WJKK WJKF

Wow unbelievable, I actually went on to youtube to watch this and there's a woman who was ANNA FRANK!!!! Amazing! WJKK WJKF

Dear Singh135, These sort of songs just fuel the fire really, like ducussed within the posts it fills the demand for the people who buy into caste supremacy wars. But whenever they associate sikhi within these songs, we should all show our condemnation. WJKK WJKF

@SINGH4PEACE....awaiting your response to my posts to you dear brother. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF You have stated many truths, sikhi is indeed fragmented into caste supremacy divisions, the Ravidassia religion is a direct result of this and now many people within sikhi are pointing their fingers at other organisations which may have infiltrated the Ravidassia community rather than lookin internally at what we as so calle sikhs have done and what we have taken guru nanaks Nirmal panth. I hate the titles chamar sikh, jatt sikh ramgarhia sikh etc, the sooner we can drop these titles the sooner we will just simply be sikh. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, What a shame it is to hear the state of sikhi in America. In the uk there has been an influx of people, generally younger who are reconnection to their sikhi. God willing the same will happen in America. It just takes a few gursikhs who live sikhi within every minute of their life to start this ball rolling. Here in the UK we have many young gursikhs who a giving a brilliant example to the younger generation. You may have already seen his videos on youtube, bhai Jugraj Singh from basics of sikhi, if you haven't share it with your friends and family and hopefully guru nanaks parchar will once again awake sleeping souls. Is there also this caste supremacy ideology over sikhi in the states? WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF Dear brother, This is not simply kicking the the can to some one else, this is about change and change can only happen within debate and opinions. As recognised by various sikhs who have contributed to this post, the problem lies with the demand and the person singing the song to fulfill that demand for monetary or fame purposes. The whole panjabi scene music industry is fine if it is left to do that. But the issue is when they start to associate it with sikhi. Jazzy B, Sukshinder Shinda, Malkit Singh and Diljit Dosanj are just a few of these contradictory contributors to the tainting of sikhi. This is where, WE as sikhs should be concerned and show our condemnation about the image portrayal of sikhs and the caste supremacy issues which are being associated with our dharam. It is not simply blaming the next person you see, rather identifying a problem, finding who are contributing to the problem and trying to raise awareness. This then involves the music producers, the singers and also the listeners. One person cannot do this alone, their has to be a United sikh stance to say "well no, we do not want our dharam to be associated with your gaandh basically!" However, the united stance is not there as many people still harbour caste supremacy issues, amrit dhari or not! WJKK WJKF WJKK, WJKF Dear brother, Are you from America and if so what is the state of sikhi at present especially within the youth? WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF The majority are jatt based, I understand old traditional panjabi folk songs are based on such stories like mirza jatt and the other 8 traditional love stories, I have no problem with these as it does not associate itself with sikhi, my problem is with today's modern bhangra, lyrics what are really based on nothing with no beauty, simply just silly songs sung by silly people wearing a khanda made outa gold. The majority being jatt tracks as you rightly said, however like other sikh have stated it fullfills the demand. This is were the problem is with the whole caste supremacy ideology all being promoted within sikhi, my problem lies with any caste being tagged to sikhi, not just the jatt and any vulgar portrayal being associated to guru nanaks Nirmal panth. I am soooooo surprised at the support for such contradiction, it brings me down to the point that many "sikhs" really only say its ok because they must belong to the caste in regards to the bhangra song and if amrit chak, really they still harbour caste as I see no justification for this, well anything which taints sikhi. WJKK WJKF