JagsawSingh

I don't have any daughters and I, having true 100% belief in the pure 100% sexual equality that true Sikhism espouses, work hard for them to inherit a world in which the wicked mysoginist Islamic practices of the afghan Sikhs is welland truly consigned to the dustbin of history. As for statements. You say I went on to make 'derogatory remarks' about women. Thats not true and anyone reading the other recent messages from people on this page might get the impression that I must have murdered and burned at the stake a handfull of women. All I did in fact say was this to Simran, in Punjabi : simmer down (understandable, as she was getting rather emotional) drink a cup of tea (understandbale as it does help people calm down) eat some biscuits (understandable, as they do go well with tea) put the tv on (understandable, as she was getting upset and it would help to get to get her mind off it) change her tampax pad sit down and relax (understandable, as it is a good way to unwind) don't talk too much (understandable, as some women do talk too much) Now, was that really so bad ?

People can "call me out" all they want. I'm not gonna be intimidated from speaking the truth. Simran just got all emotional over nothing when all I said was that she put a thumbs up 'like' next to a dodgy message....and its true, she did, and jkvlondon got back what she deserved when she, for no good reason, posted a message criticising me on a personal level. As for this thing you call a "pro-jatt movement" on my behalf, well, for you to say that is testament to your own blind ignorance seeing how this discussion was in the form of a good educational format discussing the blatantly un-sikh, un-ethical and immoral inherent practices of the Afghan Sikhs in west London before Dallysingh101 started posting message after message about 'jatts', caling them backward bast***s. In between his blatant casteist messages of abuse I carried on not only articulating how the Afghan prctices must be stopped otherwise they will have a profoundly negative effect on the Sikhi our children will inherit, particularly with regards to seeing the function of Sikh women existing purely to satisfy that sexual lust of men, but I also articulated many times how I have, on this very forum, gone on personal vendettas against evil and corrupt jatt men of authority, for example gurdwara presidents and also how i am well known here for calling for the death and destruction of the morally corrupt jatt elite of Punjab politics. So this raises 2 questions: Where exactly on this thread have I said anything whatsoever that could possibly be construed as being 'pro'jatt' ? and... Why exactly do your eyes not see how the only person on this thread making vicious casteist remarks is dallysingh101? Intimidation is a terrible thing and I try and teach my children about always being brave enough to speak up for and stand up for the truth despite the intimidation that will come their way when they do. In a sense then, we as the wider community have reached the stage where it is perfectly OK and acceptable to make as many abusive comments and remaks about jatts as you want. Thats OK. As demonstrated on this very thread people not only don't mind it they actually don't even notice it as its become so acceptable. In the same vein, when on this very forum I go into detailed criticisms of the Punjab leadership nobody accuses me of being casteist against jatts. When I delve into the detailed financial history of influential jatt sikh gurdwara presidents in order to expose them and bring them down nobody here accuses me of casteism against jatts. When I go on peronal vendettas against the parcharak jathas (all of whom from a jatt background) and point out how they are doing long term damage to sikhi nobody accuses me of being casteist against jatts. But if I say anything whatsoever against anyone from a non-jatt background I instantly become an "evil pro-jatt casteist" As I said in the beginning, the truth will always prevail and I will not be intimidated into keeping my mouth shut. We have right now in west London, a 30,000 strong Afghan Sikh community that is sullying the good name of the dastar by having the following endemic practices : Endemic participation in criminal activities that now make the whole of west London see all Sikhs as immoral criminals Widespread and endemic practice of incest, in that they habitually, and in fact only, marry and have children with their own chache's sons and daghters, pooah's sons and daughters, thaya's sons and daughters etc. Habitual and ritual eating of Halal meat. A sick twisted practice of seeing Sikhism, and its rules for uncut hair etc, as only applicable for men. Strictly being of the view that a female has no business whatsoever practising Sikhism. As the Islamic Hadiths make it clear that a female wife MUST make and keep herself extremely 'sexy' in order to arouse and satisfy her husband's sexual desires, these Afghans have brought that sme principle to the UK, whereby their wives exist solely to maintain the home and to comform to the husband's sexual ideals of atttractiveness. So, intimidate me all you want. I never stopped going after the Indians. I never stopped going after the jatt politicians. I never stopped going after the jatt parcharaks. I never stopped going after the jatt gurdwara pardhans and I most certainly won't stop going after these lot just because some of you will then try an shut me up by calling me a casteist. Some of you need to tak step back and imagine the kind of Sikhi that will exist in the UK if we allow the above practices to become acceptable and the norm. Intimidate me all you want. Their practices are evil and wrong and none of us should be afraid of saying so.

I'm getting sick of explaining this to you Simran but, as I said before.....The only thing I said about you personally is that you 'Liked' a message by gsinghysingh (message #65 on page 7). If you think that is 'slander' can I suggest you quietly make your way to message #65 on page 7 and observe the 'Like' by Simran345 next to the message. After that, I suggest you consult a dictionary and digest the fact that 'slander' is defined as a false statement. Therefore, the only way what I said about you could be called 'slander' was if it was me who deliberately and maliciously assumed the identity of a girl called Simran, and in the space of 5 minutes created a 'Simran' username for Sikhsangat.com and shamelessly used your name to put a 'like' next to a dodgy message. But....we both know that didn't happen did it now Simran ? So, seeing how you keep mentionng the word 'slander' in several messages since then, can you please kindly explain to me how a true statement can possibly be termed 'slander' ?

Touche !!! Well done gsinghysingh. An insult very cleverly disguised as a compliment. No mean feat. Well done.

Its finished (although I didn't insult you...I just said you liked a dodgy message and its true you did) but never mind about that, its finished. Just simmer down. But remember, naa mai cha peenda' (mai costa coffee peenda' hoonda') te naa mai mere' upar dol'ni. Tu buss cha te coffee di gul rainde'h te apne' tampax pad change karr'n da sorch. Get your emotional balance back.

Thats the stupidest post I've ever read Simran. Really stupid. All the more stupid because I get home after picking the kids up from school only to find half a dozen messages directed towards me by an hystericaly emotional woman and the usual suspects, accusing me of slander. Simmer down woman. Cha da cup peela'.....beshkot kaa'la....TV on karrla'....apna tampax pad change kar'la.....relax hoo ke'h ba'jah ram n'a. Baa'la nee boli da bandeh naal. Simmer down.

What you mean 'slander' ? I suggest, Simran, you know what a word means before you decide to use it. The only thing I said about you personally is that you 'Liked' a message by gsinghysingh (message #65 on page 7). If you think that is 'slander' can I suggest you quietly make your way to message #65 on page 7 and observe the 'Like' by Simran345 next to the message. After that, I suggest you consult a dictionary and digest the fact that 'slander' defines a false statement. Therefore, the only way what I said about you could be 'slander' was if it was me who deliberately and maliciously assumed the identity of a girl called Simran, in the space of 5 minutes created a 'Simran' username for Sikhsangat.com and shamelessly used your name to put a 'like' next to a dodgy message. But....we booth know that didn't happen did it now Simran ? You 'liked' a message in which a man (gsinghysingh) not only made a false statement in which he implied that its just the odd one or two of these Afghan Sikhs who indulge in strange practices and that ALL...i.e EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Sikhs that are ruining Sikhism are from the one particular caste (Jatts). Are you in the habit of 'Liking' posts without reading or understanding them ?? Really ? 8 pages long giving you detailed descriptions of 'what goes on' and yet you still don't know ?? This begs the question Simran.....What exactly do you know ?? As for you jkvlondon: Now that you know I haven't said anything false or malicious at all why don't you explain how and why you think you can willy niilly say things about people without having the most simple understanding of what you think you're either agreeing or disagreeing with ? Or....as you have, in the past, alluded to the fact that you might perhaps be from one of those urban backgrounds that its simply a case of you taking the incest 1st cousin marriage issue personally as its something that runs in your family or........Is it perhaps a case of you being defensive in advance because my talk of morals and ethics hits a raw nerve with you seeing as you left home as a teenager to elope with your black boyfriend ? Both of you females (Simran and jkvlondon) need to up your game intellectually and develop some self respect. Firstly, you need to understand the fact that in a discussion between those who think it OK to see women as nothing more than sex objects and those (me) bitterly and violently opposed to this way of thinking you should, if you had any self-respect, be firmly on the side of the latter. Secondly, if you think you might be up for arguing with me you better research what you say and be sure you're saying the right thing before posting insulting messages about me.

Oh here we go. As if we didn't already have enough ill-informed muppets here along comes gsinghyingh. So what "one particular caste" is this then gsinghysingh ? I'm asking because the current biggest man in charge of "running our qaom" and, as recent events showed, completely "ruining our quom", is Avtar Singh Makkar who is an Arora/Khatri and the one before him, who completely ruined our religious institution as a moral and ethical one, was a Labana. In contrast, you may recall that the good people that had given blood,sweat and tears to fight them and everything they stand for and have ended up on death row awaiting execution for it are indeed all from that "one particular caste" you think are responsible for "all" the bad. I could go on and on with this list but I fear it would all go flying over your empty little head. If you've already made your ignorant mind up that "all the people ruining our quom belong to one particular caste" and are even prepared to put that thought into words on international discussion forums, despite the facts stating otherwise, then I fear your level of misinformed - ill-informed ignorance is at a level that cannot be penetrated. 'bad eggs' implies that you think some of them don't marry their 1st cousins......don't ritually eat halal meat.....do insist their wives practice Sikhi. But again we're back to your extreme, almost incredible level of ill-informed ignorance. Their culture....their way of life....is not restricted to the odd 'bad egg'. It is an inherent part of their psyche. An inherent part of their culture. But your message, with all its ignorance, reveals a hellava lot about the state of our people. The true extremely low intellectual state that we're in. I mean, your message above got a 'Like' thumbs up from Simran345. She's a girl. A Sikh girl and yet she's supporting and saying nothing should be said against a group of Sikhs that strictly only marry their own 1st cousins and believe that girls (wives) should only exist as sex objects there to sexually arouse their man. The fact that a Sikh girl could come to the defence of such people is a truly damning indictment of the state of our community as Sikhs and a very clear explanation as to why the Indians have a national stereotype of us being incredibly thick.

Really ? You place so little value in the honour of the dastar that you have stated clearly in this very thread that : Its OK for dastar wearing Singhs to have sex with their sisters.....Its OK for dastar wearing Sikhs to see women as objects created purely for men to enjoy sexually....Its OK to commit crime and any sikh that doesn't think criminals are cool is a "soft Pu**y". On other threads, many a time, you have stated that it is wrong for Sikhs to be considered a race seperate from Indians. On this thread, you have repeatedly abused people...repeatedly used disgusting swear words. And yet you think I'm brainwashed for being consistent in stamping on all those that bring dishonour to the dastar ? Your little friend here jacfsing is already well known for being a complete retard so he's a bit of a lost cause but people like buddasingh need to take a step back and analyse how an anti-Sikh, Pro-Indian, drinking, night-clubbing fake like yourself has managed to hoodwink him. Shame on him for that. But, as I said before, I, and my family, will NEVER stop stamping on the heads of all those who bring shame and disgrace on the turban no matter how hard you try and scare me away with abuse. A vicious foreign nation (India) illegally occupies my land. I will never, till my dying day, cease to break and abuse both them and the sellout Sikhs that support them. It is then, just a co-incidence that the 2 of you brothers in arms here right now (jacfsingh and Dallysingh101) are the ones that have been consistent over the years with your anti-Khalistan stance ?

Buddasingh, shame on you. Lets recap as to just how much of a pathetic imbecile you are: DallySingh makes disgusting remarks about jatts on every single thread he has ever visited on this website over the last 6 months. It doesn't matter if the thread is about Punjab...or about cakes....or about bread....or about cars. He still makes his disgusting casteist remarks - And yet none of that has ever bothered you at all and here you pretending to care about 'caste' Dallysingh, on this Sikh forum with little vulnerable children present, has, on this thread alone, used the 'F' word a total of 6 times, mostly to denegrate the mothers and fathers of the other Sikhs present here, and indeed in one of his posts here he insinuated that a fellow member here has sexual intercourse with his own mother - And yet none of this has bothered you at all instead feeling the need to abuse someone pointing out and correcting facts. 4 people here were having a discussion about the Aroras from a Sikh History in central Asia perspective. I joined in later and gave details of that history and several others here thanked me for answering those queries. In that same discussion, your potty mouthed friend Dallysingh101, demonstrating his immature childlike intellect, contributing by adding that perhaps the aroras in the picture were 'Hazaras', not realising what a hazara looks like - And yet you choose to ignore all that ? I've stated in my previous message how I have posted message after message here on this forum in various different threads about my hatred for corrupt jatt sikh keshdari dastar wearing Sikhs. I reminded you how my past form here has demonsteated how determined I am to preserve the honour of the dastar that I have, on many occassions here, devoted large chunks of my personal time researching and exposing the detailed financial history of those indivduals - And yet, despite me telling you in that message, you choose to blank your mind of this fact ....why ? Despite everyone on this thread, including the OP, continously telling the dufus Dallysingh101 that this issue is about the honour of the dastar that complete imbecile that lacks basic comprehension keeps going on like a mad man about mona hair-cutted people from a Sikh background. - And yet instead of opening your eyes to what you are reading you choose to abuse a Sikh ? Dallysingh101, posted 3 seperate messages on this thread where he said that its good for we Sikhs to have criminals and even stated clearly that those who do not commit crime or at least support tough criminals, are "soft pussies" - And yet none of this bothered you at all, instead coming to the conclusion that you should abuse the man that said incest is wrong and seeing Sikh women as sexual slaves is wrong And you, dallysingh101, when you said this you really overstepped the line. Perhaps the blind 'Sikhs' supporting you here will finally wake up and see what kind of man and viewpoint they are supporting: Let me tell you something right here and now....My beautiful dastar wearing wife is a laadli th'ee of Sri Gobind Singh Ji. Truly beautiful. How dare you think you can get away with making such digusting remarks. Your messages full of the 'F' word in this thread should have already been enough to show what kind of person you are but the fact that you think by making abusive comments you can scare dastar wearing Singhs and Kaurs into not mentioning how it is wrong to marry and sleep with your sisters and to see females as nothong more than sex objects should be more than enough to show the others here what kind of person you actually are. That is your parents fault for raising a son with such a filthy mouth and with such gandeh thoughts. Shame on them for that. Now, everyone else, do you see what is happening here ? When we have discussions about why the Muslim community in the UK is living in denial, refusing to acknowledge that so many of their people are wearing religious attire but yet indulging in immoral activities, do you not see how we are now doing the exact same thing. When terrible shortcomings are pointed out, do you see how hard they come down on those pointing it our rather than the people actually doing the things ? We, together, for the sake of our children, must NEVER EVER allow those wearing a dastar to do anything that brings dishonour to it. All my life, I have confronted all those that do and told them straight that if they wish to carry on doing such things they must cut the hair. We were at a wedding last year and as we were walking from our car to the reception hall we noticed a dastar wearing singh smoking with some others. My little son first went up to him and told him straight that he should cut his hair and stop doing besti to the dastar. Then my wife got involved and literally told him she would smack him upside the head if he ever does such a thing again and if he can't stop he should cut his hair and stop wearing a pagh. That man was obviously a jatt as we were all at a jatt wedding together. So where's 'casteism' now ? Constantly, here on SikhSangat, I have called for the death and destruction of immoral dastar wearing sikhs such as Badal and KPS Gill. They're jatts too. So where's 'casteism' now ? Constantly, here on Sikhsangat, I have chased and exposed the personal financial dealings of corrupt rich Sikhs in the UK, such as Malhi of Southall etc. They're all jatts. So where's 'casteism' now ? Take a good look at yourselves. Examine how and why you wish to abuse me for letting people know how these Afghan Sikhs practice incest and insist that their wives cut their hair as they do not believe females shoulld practice Sikhism. Abuse me all you want.....I have my children to think about...and the kind of Sikhi they shall inherit. Thus, I will never stop saying how disgusting the practices of these Afghan Sikhs are untill they either stop dishonouring the dastar and cut their hair or they stop. Untill they stop, or cut their hair and stop doing besti to the dastar, I will continously batter them and that is something I am very very proud of.

"His People" Dallysingh101, are people such as Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale the present day Satkar Committee and people like Bhai Rajoana and Prof Bhullar : i.e people that take direct action against any that insult the honour of the dastar. "His people" Dallysingh101, are all of we people here on this forum who constantly post threads and messages about news stories of dastar wearing Sikhs of a Jatt background who indulge in crimes or immoral activities and state that they MUST remove those dastars if they wish to behave in such shamefull ways. "His people" Dallysingh101, are the 80,000 that march in central London each June wishing for the deaths of immoral dastar wearing Sikhs of a jatt background, such as Badal and KPS Gill. You my friend, because of your shamefull bigotry against all Sikhs of a rural background, are incapable of seeing how the Jatt Sikhs in the west always, without fail, come down hard on any keshdari jatt Sikh that indulges in bad things. Your bigotry has blinded you of the fact that the 'gang-bangers etc' of Vancouver are, to the last man, mona sikhs. You don't seem to have even the most basic understandiing of the honour that comes with the dastar and how we shoud all come down hard on any that tarnish that honour. For example, you seem to have forgotten all the messages I have written on this very forum where I go on very personal vendettas against dirty and corrupt jat Sikh millionaiire businessmen, for example the Presidents of various Gurdwaras. You seem to have forgotten how I have gone into detailed chasing and tracing excercises with regards to their business interests etc. There you again. Pure ignorance and blindness founded and fuelled by your pure bigotry. The jatts make a up a tiny minority of the Punjab Police. With the state quotas for the so called 'backward classes' it is almost the preserve of the churas and chamars, Very few jatts get that job. Underneath the uniform hat that is shaped like a turban, 99% of them are hair-cutted churas and chamars. But, I'm sure that won't stop you blaming the jatts. There you again with your bigoted ignorance. The fact that the drug epidemic in Punjab is at its worst in urban areas and the jatts hardly exist in urban areas will not stop you. Your bigotry ensures you are not possible to understand reason. What ??? You've clearly never stepped foot inside a Punjab village and this claim of yours is so ludicrous its hardly worthy of a reply. Wow. Such disgusting language on a religious forum full of youngsters. You ought to feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself. So now you're not only advocating criminality you're actually saying any Sikh that doesn't do crime is a soft mummy's boy What on earth is wrong with you ? You may recall, this thread is about dastar wearing keshdari Sikhs bringing utter shame to that crown. If you know of dastar wearing crack cocaaine dealers you should do the decent thing and not only bring it to our attention so that we can forcefully deal with it but also notify the authorities. No you don't see anything of the sort in Canada. I know the situation and people well and I have never ever encountered a dastar wearing keshdari Sikh amongst any of those gangsters. . So now your're using obscene langage because you're upset that anyone might come in the way of these lovely people committing their lovely crimes ? How can a bunch of keshdari dastar wearing Sikhs pickpocketting innocent citizens and stealing their hard earned property be "nothing" ? I'm sure it caused a great deal of personal and financial heartache to those thousands of victims, many of whom were chldren and many of whom had been saving up years to buy those phones. You obviously missed that message from Balkar in which he articulated clearly how this is about a national identity and not the 'caste' of that nationality. At the end of the day, it is our sons and daughters dastars that is being dishonoured if we continue to shut our mouths too afarid to say anything about how these people marry and have children with their 1st cousins and the way in which they do not belive females have any business in growing their hair and being Sikhs. I know alot of people don't understand this point because they only really ever see Muslim females covered up but what they don't understand is that underneathh that covering the Muslim female has a religious duty to be extremely beauty parlourfied as their holy scriptures say she must make herself extremely sexually arousing for her man. This is the same concept these Afghan Sikhs in west London have brought over to the UK and this is all going to have an extremely negative impact on our children if we keep ur mouths shut and do and say nothing.

Do you know what an Hazara even looks like Dallysingh ? They have chinese style eyes. No Star Striker. The Afghan Sikhs are 100% Arora. No other Sikh group exists among them. Its an interesting facet of Sikh history actually because historically, in terms of business, the areas of the Sikh empire were divided up by the Khatris and the Aroras. Because the Aroras were considered 'lesser' khatris, the Khatris themselves had the whole of Punjab proper and potowar, Kashmir etc and gave the whole of the extreme north west of Punjab and the North West Frontier region (Pathan territory) for the Aroras. Thus, the Khatris had a business manopoly of Punjab proper and the the Aroras had a complete monopoly of the whole of the north west. Interestingly though, if one goes even further north west and by-passes the Arora areas and ventures into Iran, we find that it is the Khatris that had (and still have) the business monopoly in Iranian cities such as Zahedan and Tehran and no aroras exist there at all. But, for the purposes of this discussion, we must remember that virtually all of the Afghan Sikhs are Aroras. All of them. The fact that you posted that link, jacfsing2, shows that you completely misunderstand Sikh history in those parts. You've posted a picture of Peshwari Sikhs in Pakistan without understanding that there is a very vast difference between the Afghan Sikhs and the Pakistani Sikhs of the north west frontier. The oonly real common denominator is the closeness and family ties between the arora sikhs of the cities of Jalalabad in Afghanistan and Peshawar in Pakistan. Both these comminuties, united by blood and marriage, are 100% pure arora, with no pathan blood in them. At the other end of the scale, we must remember that most of the Sikhs in Afghanistan are from the city of Kabul and that city (Kabul) is and always has been a distinctly Tajik and Uzbek city, so the local culture of the Sikhs is not pathan culture at all, as pathan influence in that city has always been minimal. Now, lets cross back across the Khyber Pass into Pakistan and we then have to consider a totaly unique Arora Sikh community that exists deep inside the rural tribal mountain areas well away from the towns and cities. Amongst those arora Sikhs there is indeed some very heavy mixing with pathan blood and that can be clearly seen in their features and skin colour. These arora sikhs actually live and die by pathan culture and their surnames are also names that proclaim their ties to the local clans, such as Afridi. To understand this phenonema we have to first understand the murder madness of partition 1947. The arora sikh small time traders were already living amongst those pathan clans and as the pathans live and die by their official 'code of honour' called the 'Pakhtoonwali', that code of honour dictated that they MUST, absolutely MUST, treat those fellow tribal area dwellers as their 'Hamsaya', or guest. The Pakhtoonwali code of honour dictates that they have absolutely no choice but to protect the life and homes of those Sikhs. Each individual pathan clan in each individual pathan tribal area did exactly that and thats why none of those sikhs moved to India at partition. Very good poing Balkar. Many of the arora Afghan Sikhs we see in Southall and Hounslow are indeed very very fair but, as you qute rightly say, they are also very short and stocky and that kind of body size and shape is virtually non-existent amongst the pathans. Why are you even saying that buddasingh ? Do not be afraid of knowledge. There are, at this moment, a large proportion of the Muslim community who not only refuse to acknowedge that crimnal elements exists amongst them that have religious attire but also, as you have done, try and stamp on and shut up anyone that mentions it. Don't be so afraid of knowledge. It is only by acknowledging our shortcomings that we will be able to overcome them. We can't let things carry on as they are. But, I'm extremely surprised you didn't understand anything I wrote and came to the conclusion that I'd "generally described the modus operandi of a wide array of the Punjabi doaspora" How on earth can you come to that conclusion ? I mean how many other Sikhs groups do you know who marry their chacha's daughter ? Pooah's son.......Thaya's children ? How many other Sikhs groups do you know who have a 'Sikh' culture whereby religion is only for the males and their wives MUST...as a RULE....have mega make-up, cut hair, blonde dyed hair, tatoos and dressed like a high class hooker ? (now you may think I'm joking here but ask any other west London Sikh. They'll tell you how every last one of these afghan sikhs has a dastar and yet every last one of them has a wife who is dressed and made up like a tart........This is because, in their extremely strange version of Sikhi, a woman has no business being a Sikh, i.e it is only for males, and she must, as per Muslim culture, make and keep herself 'sexy' to please her man)

I do recall, a couple of months ago, I received some abuse here for pointing out how the Afghan arora Sikhs in west London had made the entire west London population look at any male with a dastar and beard as a criminal....in much the same way that society has a stereotypical view of roma gypsies. Not a day goes by without the local papers having stories about multi-million dollar fraud this....multi-million dollar fraud that.....appearances in court....prison sentences.....business in Southall raided. Its got to the stage where the average Christian, Jew, Hindu or Muslim in west London associates the Sikh religion with rampant criminality. They have a bridarai system. Its all in the family....quite literally as they practice first cousin marriage....and thus the way they operate is that they appreciiate that some in the family will undoubtedly get caught and be sent to prison but the greater 'good' of amassing great fortunes for the extrended family outweighs this risk. To understand the dynamics of the 10 to 20,000 strong arora Afghan Sikh community of Southall, and how these 'refugees' have all amassed vast fortunes in the space of 10 years, all of them driving around in £80,000 cars, you have to first understand that they, as a closed community, both share their wealth and share share the risks that come with criminal enterprises.

In theory, this is a nice little thread. I salute not2cool2rgue's valiant effort to instigate an intellectual discussion based on historical events. The man (or woman....for, in my experience, it is mostly women with whom you shouldn't argue......unless you (unlike me) are capable of making your own roti) deserves upmost respect for starting this thread. Ordinarily, I'd be in my element on this thread but there;s something about it that reminds me of what I teach my boys when I sit them down for one my 'history lectures' and for that reason, I'm going to rewind a generation before the American Civil War and tell you Sikh brothers and sisters that it is the American War of Independance that s most relevant to we, the Sikhs......and one that we should not relent in reminding not only the Indians about but also using as a lobbying tool amongst American Senators and Congresmen, for it is one that would make the entire American nation understand and support our cause: Let us, of course, remind ourselves how the Indians refer to the night of 31st October 1984 in Delhi where 5000 Sikhs were murdered and 10000 Sikh women were gang-raped, as a 'riot'. Keep that thought in your mind for one moment. Now though, transplant yourselves to America in 1770. It was a nation ruled by the British. It was part of Britain. There were some that were OK with that and there were some that wern't. The ones that wern't were labelled 'terrorists' by the govt and subjected to the kind of torture, imprisonment and death that the Sikhs of India 2016 know only too well as the present rather than 'history'. But then came something that happened in Boston on March 5th 1770. The British murdered a lot of Americans. It was not the first time. They'd murdered Americans before but what made this different is the word that they used. It was a massacre. Even a child who had no concept of the word 'massacre' knew that this type of killing must be a massacre. The British however, refused to call it a 'massacre'. Instead, they described it as a 'riot'. There were debates in the British Parliament about whether what happened in Boston could be called a 'riot' even though it was clearly a massacre. In the end though, after the debates, they realised how semantics could either chalenge or reinforce their rule so.....They described it as the 'Boston Riot'. At that point, the entire American nation became united. They realised that if the occupying force can describe thier mass murder as a 'riot' rather than the massacre that it was than that must mean that they (the occupying force) must place a very low value on theirs and their children's lives. And so, from that moment, because the words 'riot' and 'massacre' meant so much to people who genuinely believed in self-determination and freedom, the American revolution was born. From that moment, because of that reason, it became the entire American nation against the British, and we all know who won that one. And so, every story, or every post, must have a moral and I suppose the moral of this one is that we shouldn't be looking for inspiration in the American Civil War when then the American War of Idependance just a few years before, shows us that their catalyst is our catalyst. Should we not be showing the most powerfull and influential nation on earth tthat we are them ?

Hunger strikes are extremely powerfull tools. Extremely powerfull. Arguably, it was the hunger strike of the Irish nationalist Bobby Sands in 1981, and the subsequent deaths of the other Irish hunger strikers, that led to Britain conceding defeat in their fight against the concept of Irish nationalism because the British government's harsh reaction to those deaths was eventually seen as inhuman, much as the Indian government's and the Punjab government's would also be seen. The fact that we are not having the same effect....and in essence not having any positive effect whatsoever in comparison with historical facts about all hunger strikes can best be summed up thus: The first hunger striker died after 43 days and the last hanged on 'till the 73rd day. We, the Sikhs, salute and stand alongside baba Surat Singh because his struggle is our struggle but....sometimes, we should take a step back and analyse why our struggle gets us nowhere and we are, arguably, in an even worse position today with regards to political rights than we were 30 years ago. Is our struggle merely to reassure and garner support amongst ourselves or is it to convince our oppressors that we are serious about what we do ? I ask this because headlines such as "Babu Surat Singh on his 365th day of hunger strike" means alot to me, as a Sikh already part of the cause but to the people we're trying to reach.........the Indians we're trying to teach about human rights and dignity....it just comes across as another example of what they percieve as the uneducated backwardness of Sikhs. They, who already have jokes about their stereotype image of us, look at those kind of headlines and wonder why they shoud take seriously a community that doesn't realise it is articulating a hunger strike day tally that is not only physically impossible but also 4 times greater than what has ever been achieved by a human being. To get freedom.......to get our human rights........we need to step inside the shoes of our oppressors and understand what they're thinking. Some of them have been to Cambridge, some of them have been to Harvard. Even those that haven't know what the words 'Hunger Strike' mean. We, the western born educated sons and daughters of the Sikhs from Punjab need to understand that we are fighting a war with an enemy....we ARE at war, but this is not a war being faught with guns and rocket launchers. THIS, is a war of intellect. A war where reason will prevail. Reason, is with us. Barbarity is with them. '365 days of a hunger strike' is not an expression reasonable, educated......the wining side of an intellectual war....uses.

Ok. I wish I didn't have to do what I'm about to do but.....its gotta be done: The first bit of the poster. Taking all the different sentences together it is clear each sentence is a hope for 2016. But, at the same time, there are aspects of it that are quite disturbing in that people might actually wish for such thiings in 2016. We start off with 'Handguns are in Museum'. Now, they say 'museum' rather than 'museums' or 'a museum' so they obviously have one particular museum in mind. We can only speculate if that particular museum is the naural history museum or the Sheffield Museum of Locomotive Engines but, regardless, the very fiirst sentence of the first bit at the top clearly demonstrates that it is indeed hopes for 2016 that are being listed because gettig rid of guns from the street is indeed a noble hope. This, of course, makes the second 'hope' very strange because that hope is that, in 2016, we get a world where 'Safe Water is Rare'. The very next hope is a great one because it wishes for a world where 'Wars are (only) fought over twitter'. But......in the next hope, it wishes for a world, in 2016, where 'canned air is sold' And then we come to our very last hope.....a hope that 'pollution kills more people than accidents' ??

My god you really are incredibly dimwitted jacfsing2. On a thread about domestic violence dallysingh101 comes along and without reason posts a message in which he lays the blame on rural sikhs. Instead of seeing how disgusting and casteist he is for doing that (btw...he does that on every single thread he's ever been on here on sikhsangat) you choose to blame any sikh that points out how wrong he is for doing that. Is that really how things are supposed to work ? Are urban sikhs supposed to insult rural sikhs at wll and if the rural sikhs ever dares say anything about it it will automatically be the rural sikhs fault ? Is that really how it works ? That the sun shines out of the urban sikhs ar$e and he can do no wrong but the rural sikh is always, by definition, a 'bad 'un' ? Well now. At least we now know the 2015 winner of the forum's biggest fool. Its jacfsing2 by a landslide. I mean lets just put this into perpective. You, jacfsing2, like the idea of dallysingh101 needlessly bringing his blatant anti-rural sikh prejudice into this thread by falsely blaming rural sikhs for domestic violence. You like that, or at least don't mind it that much. But you wish to cover your eyes and ears and refuse to acknowledge that : the newspapers in Punjab are full of stories of the urban lot habitually setting their wives on fire for extra dowry money The urban lot see women as such low quality human beings that they think Sikhi (i.e dastar and amrit) is only for men as they don't belive females have the mental and physical qualities to be a Sikh. i.e domestic torture. one urban group, the bhatras, don't let their daughters go to college and don't let any females out of the house without veiling and they enforce these rules with intimidation, fear and violence. And yet you like the fact that one of the urban lot came onto this thread and decided he could pin the blame on all rural sikhs without any come back ?

I am the one, a few months ago, on a thread about the perverse Muslim culture of marrying their cousins, who pointed out how the khatris practice this same despcable tradition. If you're angry at me for pointing it out and not keeping it on th hush hush do you not think your anger might be misplaced and should perhaps be directed at the people who indulge in these disgusting incestous practices ? As for this thread, you might recall that it was the usual subject: Dallysingh101 who came along and did what he does on every single thread he visits: Without rhyme or reason, he tried to insinute that it is the Sikhs who come from rural backgrounds who indulge in domestic violence while his urban lot are ever so civilsed they hardly ever do. And then you come along an get angry with me for not keeping the true facts on the hush hush and for pointing out how it is the urban lot in Punjab who habitually burn their wives and daughter in laws to death for extra dowry money, see women as not suitable both physically and mentally to be Sikhs, see women as not suitable to work hard outside the home, not suitable to fight, not suitable to attend university, not suitable to step outside the home without covering themselves like muslim women....i.e all the major ingredients needed for domestic violence and mental domestic torture. Thus, do you not think your anger is misplaced and should perhaps be directed towards the person that needlessly blamed the entire rural Sikh population for what is essentially an urban problem and the urban lot that indulge in such barbaric and mysoginistic practices ?

Wow !!! Can there possibly be a more casteist person on sikhsangat than Dallysingh101? Look back at his posts. It doesn't matter if the thread is about cars, Punjab, cakes or space travel.....the man will ALWAYS.....WITHOUT FAIL.... find a reason within it to put down Sikhs who come from a rural background. The man is totally shameless. But....even more than shame is his ignorance. For example, it would be really interesting too get inside his head and see how he can shamelessly attribute domestic violence at the feet of the rural Sikhs while completely ignoring these facts: The newpapers every single day in Punjab are full of stories about rural women murdering their husbands (usually for extra-marital affairs) and urban husbands and families setting fire to their wife/daughter in law (usually for lack of dowry) The urban Sikhs, as a rule, believe that Sikhism is only for men because women lack the intellect and other aspects needed to be a Sikh whilst this is a concept and state of affairs totaly alien among the rural Sikhs as they have a cultue whereby the women work and fight as much as the men, ie...the urban lot mentally enslave them (before regularly setting them on fire) whereas the rural lot emancipate them. The one and only group of Sikhs in the UK that have the most oppressive attitude towards their women, and keep this oppressive order through intimidation, fear andd violence, are the bhatras.....and they, of course, are 100% from urban stock as they do not exist as a rule in rural areas. This urban group is the one that will not allow their daughters to study at university and will not allow their women to go out in public without a veil of some sorts. So what exactly is it that goes through dallysingh101's mind where he can blank his mind from actual reality and continously, thread after thread, perpetuate his vitriolic prejudice against rural sikhs ?

Johnny, I'm going to ignore JKVlondon as she lacks intellectual substance but I'll start you with this thought:......Our Gurus took us out of the darkness.....Man, has taken us back into it. Absolutely nothing to do with Hindus. Hindus can do what they want. Hindus have always had their traditions and they always will. Good luck to them. They're as good and bad as me. Nothing to do with me though. Hindus, just like Sikhs, have some unbeleivably good people amomgst them. Truly wonderfull people. Truly so. But....that ain't got sh$t to do with shi$t. Its to do with following rituals. If I were to follow my great great great great grandfather's Hindu ritual of choosing a first letter for the name of my son than what's to stop me from going to the Gurdwara and choosing a name for the brand of jacket to buy for my final accountancy exam interview ? My Guru Ji is wonderfull. My interview at Freshfields is also quite wonderful and life changing. Should I first consult Guru Ji about the colour of the tie I should wear for an interview with a magic circle Law firm before I go ? My life is no more an empty shell than the tie I put on. My life is simply to be able to have the understanding that Amrit will give me life. Its so simple. The fact that all those before who take amrit and yet still don't understand the true meaning of it is not my problem. You see......once you become absorbed in rituals you forget about the actual substance. The actual substance of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells you everything you need to know about getting lost in rituals and thus, forgetting about actual substance so, I'll refer you back to what I said before: "The greatest Sikh of the century (Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale) was named by his parents after a French army rank (after the French language became the lingua franca of the Khalsa Kingdom) Our 10th master, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, named his children after Iranian first names." i.e...a name is just a name. Nothing more.Nothing less. If a nation thinks a name of a child is mega important than that nation will never become an actual nation. Now....as you see how we Sikhs are the ONE and ONLY major religion on planet earth without a homeland perhaps you can see it is justified because we have become absorbed in rituals rather than actual substance ??????

By nature, and by common sense, the word 'job' implies a wage. With that 'wage' a worker either pays his or her rent and is able to lve or, if its decent enough, is able to get his or her foot on the property ladder. So......whilst we've all heard talk about the Sikh Channell paying absolutely ZERO to ts staff I can't help wondering what kind of wonderfull 'job oppportunity' this really is when the advert mentions absolitely nothing about the amount of remuneration a candidate will or might get for the WORK he or she would do. i.e....It is NOT a 'Job Opportunity'.

Talk to Gujratis Johnny. Its an ancient Hindu tradition to have a ceremony to pick a letter for the name of their newborn son. Notice how I said 'son'. Thats because they, unlike we Sikhs, saw sons as more special than daughters. But...thats neither here nor there. Its about ritual. My great great great grrandfather came with a ritual and rituals to me as a Sikh mean nothng. I, as a Sikh, have no rituals for birth, no rtuals during lfe, no rituals for death. The 'lingua franca' of War of the Khalsa Kingdom was officially French. The lingua franca of court was Farsi but the official language of War of the Sikhs was French. And, just in case you're interested, the time of the French in Khalsa Punjab also coincided with the time that the Spanish language took its language shift from the 'g' to the 'r' and the French followed, through language fashion, hence two of the most popular Sikh names of the century 'Jarnail' and 'Karnail'.

No sherry Mister Singh. Maybe a little too much pepsi though. Too much fizzy pop made me think everybody understands the phonetic alphabet. I was wrong. My bad :( Basically though, I was saying how silly the poster was for advocating same surname marriage amongst Sikhs without understanding how most minor Jatt surnames (which only exist together in the same 10 mile radius of the same Tehsil of the same district) indicate that those with the same surname were part of the same family living in the same houshold less than 100 years ago. That, my friend, is insest. And that, my friend,is well and truly foxtrot uniform charlie kilo'd uniform papa !!!!

Baby names are a difficult but, at the end of the day, a very personal choice between you and your partner. Choose what you both feel comfortable with and NEVER EVER go with what we here say. Its you and your parner who have brought a beautiful child into this world. Its you both who should go with whatever you wish. All we can do is tell you about is our decisions about our own children and Sikh history with regards to naming their children. From that you should take and discard what you will. The greatest Sikh of the century (Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale) was named by his parents after a French army rank (after the French language became the lingua franca of the Khalsa Kingdom) Our 10th master, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, named his children after Iranian first names. Me, and my wife, did not go through any 'picking first letter' ceremony because it is exactly the same ceremony the Hindus have and we didn't want to cary on with Hindu leftover traditions my forefathers carried over with them with their conversion from Hinduism from Sikhism simply because that same Hindu tradition is now done in the name of our living master. See? Like I said. Take our experience but, at the end of the day, choose a name both you and your partner are happy with. Thats all that matters.

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