MisterrSingh

Singh Ji, haven't you heard of the unwritten rule whereby 'flowery language' is perfectly acceptable when used by a person whose opinions and thoughts align with your own, but whenever someone who doesn't share your opinions on the world dares to slip in an exotic synonym or two into a sentence, then all of a sudden it's a sign of arrogance and being an intellectual lightweight?

BhenJi, I haven't even eaten my cornflakes yet and I'm having to put up with so much aggro so early in the day. Whatever happened to the holiness of the Sabbath? Bare Kaljug. ?

Well, things aren't black and white. I'm still formulating my opinions on various issues. I'm not arrogant enough to believe I have the answers to everything. Sometimes it's devil's advocate, other times I'm trying to gauge other's opinions and views to aid my understanding on a subject. I'd rather be flexible and open to all points of view than corner myself into a place where I cannot accept another point of view that doesn't chime with my own pre-conceived notions, prejudices and bias. If I may critique your personality and powers of comprehension for a moment. You're too idealistic. You either live in a bubble where the theory has literally translated into reality - in which case lucky you - or you're ignorant to the fact that noble intentions and the like rarely translate so neatly when applied to the rawness and unpredictability of the human experience. I'd say your worldview would be admirable if you were in your teens, but I'm guessing you're well into your 20's, and as such your understanding of matters smacks of a paucity of life experience and a heck of a lot of self-righteous delusion. I guess a lot of that can be attributed to the extreme feminist doctrine you were fed during your formative years, so I guess in some respects you aren't entirely to blame. But I'm very touched you think I use flowery language. You're making me blush.

As a Sikh, if only you'd put all the effort you placed into learning about Islam and directed your efforts into learning about your own religion, you wouldn't have to ask these foolish questions. You're a troll. Plain as day. You're trying to be clever, but the language you use and the points you make scream troll. Very amusing though. I look forward to more of your posts and your poor attempts to further disguise your true intentions.

Hilarious.

Baba Ji, maaf karo. Galti ho gayi.

@jkvlondon - Sister, I voiced similar suspicions to you a few weeks ago regarding how I think Mohammed and his original message might have been co-opted by various parties over the centuries. As you say, I believe if the Mohammed we're told about in modern times is the same fellow from back then, why would our jaani-jaan Guru Sahibs neglect to mention this about the founder of a religion they were in active and violent opposition to? It would've served to strengthen our position, surely?

Big picture, Preet Ji, big picture. Munching on a macchi is hardly a crime against humanity, or an act which justifies stripping him of all divinity. Maybe they ran out of rotis that day?

If I have to write an essay that covers every single outcome and permutation in order to make a point, then I just haven't got the time for that. I attribute anyone who reads or replies to me to have enough about them to understand the gist of what I'm saying. Obviously, I assume too much in some instances. My reply to another forummer that you've quoted above was within the spirit of the conversation being conducted at that time, whereby the conversation was about individuals or a smaller subsection of Punjabi society, as opposed to a more general view on the merits of education and how spirituality is often relegated to an afterthought or not at all in most situations.. If you had read my previous posts you'd also have read the following: And: How anyone can infer I'm anti-education and anti-progress from what I've said above is frankly baffling. Plus I'd appreciate it you dialled down the hostility a few notches. I'm no Pavlovian test subject, y'know

If the system and its apparatus is corrupt, you will either have to bend to its will or you'll be spat out. Look at politics. How many times have we seen idealistic youngsters declare, "When I become a politician I'm going to shake things up!" Yet, 10 or 15 years later they've become part of that very system they swore they'd never allow to defeat them. I never said reaching the top is bad at all. I said those who strive to get to a certain level, more often than not, neglect those noble intentions they may have harboured when they first started out. It's human nature. I'll say it again: when one enters the daily grind of the "machine" even the most stringent potential reformer realises how rotten things have become. But it is possible to buck these trends, and I believe being a Sikh (in the truest sense of the term, not only through words) equips one with the necessary tools to combat and confront. It'll be incredibly lonely up there if you're the kind of person who seeks affirmation and support from others to make it through the day (others who, BTW, will be so hugely invested in that corrupt system that any threat to it will jeapordise their very existence), but if the will and belief is iron-clad, then there is a chance to make a huge difference. Please next time try to read what I said, or even attempt to read between the lines, and try not to attribute things I've not even alluded to in your haste to make your various arguments.

I don't wish to generalise at all, but from what I've observed about our people over the years, Punjabis value a person's worth mostly on what profession somebody works in and the resulting status that profession affords them. I wish I could say this attitude has shifted with the rise of the newer generations, but if anything, it's only become worse. Rarely are our people content with what we have, however little it may be. There's always the mad scramble to climb higher and obtain more. But I guess you could say the same for most groups of people, but I'm merely discussing this issue in the Sikh or Punjabi context.

One thing I would say is be careful, because I completely understand your point of view, but a lazy kid could be reading and thinking, "Great! I don't have to work hard anymore!" Lol, you know some people just don't want to put the effort in, and they'll use God as a shield to deflect any criticism or justify their own lack of motivation. You aren't doing that from what I can deduce, but a cynical individual might be getting ideas to chill out whilst pretending to be a Baba or something. Also, I believe if one has been blessed with an aptitude for education or the like, the fruits of those labours should be channelled not for filling one's pockets and social climbing, but for the good of your fellow man. All too often we humans cannot see beyond our own lives or the lives of our loved ones. Rarely, if ever, does our empathy extend to those who aren't related to us or those we don't personally know. It is a cruel world with occasionally dangerous people that should be avoided for various reasons, but most people are just like us; trying to make sense of it all and just wanting to see some kindness and understanding.

Singh Ji, as far as I'm concerned you've nailed it with the above observations. Your "new caste system" theory is also first-class. I'm not knocking education though, but rarely do we learn anything for the love of discovery and self-improvement; it's almost always a means to an end. I'd be mad to say we don't need doctors or technically minded people in those professions, but as you said, the pursuit of those jobs are mostly for increasing wealth and status, particularly amongst our people for whom wealth and status are considered to be the holiest of holies.

Not a comment on a terminally ill young lady allegedly swindled out of millions under the guise of a holy man allegedly promising to heal her of cancer, but some kiddies have learned their Panjabi alphabet in one of his schools, and that makes everything okay. Out of everything outlined in the case against him on the previous page, his supporters can only comment on what they perceive to be a conspiracy to defame him. If only you people were as loyal to your Guru as you are to these intermediaries.

I've made my point. There's nothing more I can contribute to this discussion.

On that point I agree with you, brother. Analyse and criticise if necessary, but don't stoop to their level, which is to denigrate, mock, and belittle anything that isn't Islam.

Respect is earned through deeds and conduct, not haphazardly assigned for any old reason.

I wasn't referring to you, more so the people who encourage others to compromise when one side is beating the hell out of the other!

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/77291-sikhpunjabi-athleticism-and-physical-prowess/

Eat healthily when trucking, and exercise when not trucking. Fast food bought from road-side vendors or cafes, etc, and sitting down for hours on end is not good for the waistline. All the Sikh truckers I've seen in Canada are approaching obesity or already there. Gotta be careful.

That was a humourous aside. Kind of. I think. Sometimes men gotta be men and not simpering lapdogs. Depends on the woman. If she's good, then no need. If she needs to be kept on her toes, then some things need to be done. That's life.

It's very interesting and rather strange in a certain sense to see Sikh concepts and ways defined & explained in such a straightforward sense for the purpose of legal proceedings.

Divorce should always be the last course of action, and despite everything I've said previously, in recent years it has become the first choice for Sikhs in the west (if the UK is any indication; things might be different in North America). I'm sure most of us of a certain age have heard of cases where a Sikh couple get married, and a few months later it emerges they've separated and a divorce is imminent if not already finalised. That kind of nonsense has cheapened the process of marriage, but unless there are extraordinary circumstances such as a philandering partner not behaving themselves, medical conditions kept secret which later emerged, spousal abuse, etc, the desire to solve issues through divorce is too common. Some of our people are ill suited to marriage - guys and girls - because they lack vital qualities such as patience, empathy, emotional maturity, basic common sense. The most important is perhaps compromise, but again, that's one quality we as a culture are not known to possess in great measures. But then compromise can only ever occur when BOTH sides desire an outcome which addresses a common interest, I.E. the survival of that marriage. In that case there's something tangible to work with that more than likely will result in the marriage being salvaged. However, if the guy is facing north and the girl is heading south - and there is simply no desire to reconcile under any circumstances for the myriad of reasons I've mentioned previously such as infidelity, abuse, etc - then nothing can be done at all.

Any budding authors are probably wary of the religious police getting the wrong end of the stick and branding him or her as an apostate or something, lol.

Reading something of Nabokov reminds me how beautiful the English language can be... and he said English couldn't hold a candle to Russian! Show-off, lol.