MisterrSingh

Yup, it's like how Guru Nanak Dev Ji may have been, to all intents and purposes, born into a family that identified itself as Hindu, but they rejected the tenets and ways of the religion. I find the Muslim bhagats who were on cordial terms with our Guru Sahibs to be a bit of a grey area though. Did they outright reject Islam or was there a reluctance to completely abandon the faith they were born into?

That's a question for the scholars and the learned, my friend.

As cold as this may sound - and I understand this will sound very cold to some people - I've always thought that Guru Sahib played a role. As much as we would like to change the past or have foreknowledge about future events and be able to influence them so that our loved ones or those close to us are spared from pain or harm, maybe - just maybe - these things have to play out as they are destined to happen? That means even the sons, close relatives, and loved ones of our Gurus are not exempt from the natural order of things, and these moments and tragedies had to occur due to... karmic debts of those involved; divine duties that HAD to be undertaken for the benefit of so many?The trouble I have is when modern personalities attempt to portay our Guru Sahib's as pendu-type individuals in order to make them palatable to the vast majority of Sikhs in existence today; to make them relatable in the mistaken belief that we must follow those ways in order to gain their approval. I believe our Gurus were way, way ahead of their time, and no matter the modern attempts by misguided spiritual leaders to portray them as the people of exclusively their own time and geographical location, I believe in demeanour, intelligence, morals, and manners they were "Gods" amongst insects. They were beyond time and space. They just happened to be in human form. That's my belief.

No, I believe in a perfect world your reason for having children is spot-on. I'm not saying that's incorrect. What I'm saying is that, on a day-to-day basis in terms of social, cultural, and personal reasons, not many people think, "I'm going to start a family because I want to pass on righteousness and justice to my offspring." Nobody thinks like that unfortunately, unless someone happens to be a Satjugi jeev, and we know there ain't many of them around.

That's one way to look at it (I disagree BTW, but it's your opinion and you are obviously entitled to it). The other explanation is that a lot of the negative things that we are told about Muhammed might not be true. How's that for putting the cat amongst the pigeons?

I'm not disputing that at all. My only bone of contention was your assertion that passing down dharam to kids is the only or biggest reason for having kids. Most people don't think that way. I wasn't passing comment on the gay aspect of your argument.

They didn't want the stigma of being childless in a culture that values marriage and family incredibly highly, and judges the relative worth / success of someone's life based on whether they've attained such goals? I think in theory the desire to pass dharam onto one's offspring is very noble and should be encouraged. But life is not lived in the theory. Plus, have you seen most of our lot? They wouldn't know dharam if it came up behind them and said boo, lol.

On the whole, people just want to get on with each other regardless of race or religion. Personally speaking, I just want to be left in peace to live my life and practice my religion and just basically exist with all types of people. When that doesn't happen; when others begin to encroach on my existence (and everything such actions entail), then, as a Sikh, I can't be a passive bystander and pretend as if tolerance and love will win the day because it won't.I'm not interested in asserting any mistaken sense of superiority over anyone else, and I expect the same courtesy. I find it's those who lack a basic sense of humanity that create hate and division. I mean, such people find it incredibly difficult to accommodate people from their same religion or race if their beliefs differ on a few levels. How do we expect such people to see the goodness in others who follow a path completely different to theirs?

Like this?

Could be. Without having walked a mile in her shoes it's impossible to know how things are for her on a daily basis, coupled with the cultural and gender related issues she's had to face. A solitary existence - albeit with her Sikhi intact - just isn't for most people.

So is it really the fault of the Singhs?

From my own experience, the difference between Sikh females keeping uncut hair and your Somali example is nobody really "insists" Sikh females must do this or that. Are Somali girls pressured into that procedure? I really don't know enough about it to say. But in terms of Sikhs, yes, most people have an opinion about certain issues once someone has started upon the path, but there isn't that level of intense scrutiny to the point where a random member of the religious police walks up to them and makes demands or lays down ultimatums. I truly do believe it is a choice on the part of Sikh females.

I apologise too. I said a few things which were uncalled for. It was nothing personal, even if it may have seemed that way. I hold no grudges from this moment onwards. Have a nice evening, brother.

Whatever.

Lol, OK, so citations please. Under what name have you been published? And I hope you don't refer me to a PTA newsletter you wrote for once, because that doesn't count. And you are not in your mid-20's!! That is an outright lie, lmao! Try again, buddy. Anything you say could be fantasy for all i know, so unless you have anything to back it up I'm sure you'll understand if im not entirely convinced. As for me, I'm in my early 30's. I was 20 when I was hit by a lorry on my way to my exams. I suffered swelling on the brain and a spinal injury (nothing long-lasting). I've spent the past 9 years in and out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres. I taught myself how to walk through my faith in Guru Sahib when the so-called experts said there was a tiny to no chance I'd regain full use of my legs. Some days the old noggin doesn't work as it should, other days I'm firing on all cylinders, but that'll clear up eventually. All the while I kept my Sikhi sidhak and my belief in Waheguru's intact. I am here because of Him. If I have off days it's because I'm still adjusting to this strange world I find myself in. So what's your reason for being a complete and utter piece of work?

I agree, there is a difference between what you've described where Sikh girls go into situations with their eyes open. I'm referring to the insidious, deceptive practices employed by some of these individuals, what's commonly known as love jihad. And that's just one aspect of the bigger problem. As for getting personal, I never threw around insults about mental illness or the like. I responded when the little dog refused to let go of my leg.

How old are you? You must be mid-forties at least? You're married with kids, right? Dont you have anything better to do than spend your days lauding it over people who are, in some cases, 20 to 25 years younger than you? What are you doing with your life, lol? Do you lack friends? I imagine anyone would run a mile having to tolerate your insufferable and smug self. You're the kind of guy that's only married because mommy and daddy arranged his marriage with a girl from back home, because there's no way in hell any woman would willingly put up with a petty, insecure "man" such as yourself. Yet you think you're a big man, don't you? A misunderstood genius; an undiscovered talent. No, you're a legend in your own lunchtime, mate. A joke of a man. A beaten-down, frustrated, small man who hates his life, and wants to make sure everyone knows it. Want some more? I've got a few hours to spare.

I'm not disputing that Indians desire our destruction. What I have a problem with is how Jagsaw tries to paint Islamic atrocities against us as if they're from some mythical age of pre-history that has no bearing on us in these current times, or as if what happened during the 80's and 90's somehow cancels out the events that caused us, Sikhs, to come into being. Mughal aggression was rooted in their complete and hysterical adherence to their belief in their religious superiority, and how anyone who resisted their desire to spread the faith was worthy of annihilation. Are you in the UK, bro? I appreciate things maybe a bit different in places like North America where relations between Sikhs and Muslims are still in their infancy. I would argue very, very strongly against your assertion that Muslims aren't our enemies today. Ask a Sikh father and a brother who has had his life destroyed by certain types of Muslims who revel in the chaos they cause by weaving their spell over what they call amongst themselves "Sikh slags" whether they aren't our enemies. Sure, they aren't beheading us or cutting our children from limb to limb and chaining them around the neck of Sikh mother's, but don't for a moment be lulled into the false sense of security that it's peacetime. That's the worst thing you can do.

You keep coming back for seconds, yet I'm the mental one, lol? If you address me then I must reply. You're attempt at galvanising support is embarrassing; there is no "us" only "you." As for putting you on ignore I assumed that would be the end of it from that point onwards. You're clearly like a dog with a stick; you just can't let go. I know I'm a strapping fellow, but I don't swing that way.

Nobody cares, uncle Ji. Keep editing your posts and chopping and changing away, it makes no difference to me. My conscience is clear. There's nothing a flea like you can say that will ever impinge on my mind. You're less than a half-formed thought. I just like to see how devious little men like you operate; it teaches me how to avoid becoming the type of person you clearly are. I drink your milkshake.

Lmao, you don't know me. You can paint yourself as some kind of activist and social crusader, when in fact you're just a frustrated, powerless uncle who sits behind his computer giving it large, when in reality you're the kind of guy who'd barely let out a peep if confronted. Frustrated keyboard warrior. Enough of your nonsense.

In your previous janam as WLS you made that remark, or heavily implied such reasoning, so don't deny it. Just because I joined this site relatively recently, that doesn't mean I wasn't reading what's been occurring for a few years now. You know you said that Sikh girls who were drugged and / or blackmailed and co-erced into performing sexual acts for Muslims were responsible for their fate. Don't act indignant with me, it ain't gonna work.Plus, I've not resorted to cursing and swearing, so why can't you control yourself?

I take anything coming from the kind of mind that blames victims of Islamic sexual abuse for bringing their misfortune upon themselves, with a huge dollop of salt, so you'll excuse me if your pleas for justice sound hollow to me. *** Is there are a way to put people on ignore on this forum, because this Jagsaw fella really rubs me up the wrong way?

Carry on Jagsaw with your foolish partisanship. I don't prioritise atrocities committed 30 years to those that occurred 500 years ago; to me there is NO difference. What you seem to do - and it's a very devious tactic that's transparent beyond belief - is divert the conversation to Hindus and Christians whenever anyone has the temerity to speak negatively of Islam and Muslims. "B..b..but what about the Hindus and Muslims?!" What a complete and utter joke you are. It seems the suffering and destruction of Sikhs that occurred in your lifetime seems to take precedence over the slaughter and barbarity that happened hundreds of years ago. For that, you deserve nothing but contempt. Mughals invaded our land, raped our females, executed our men and children, and tried to convert us to their false ways. Indians occupy our land, they turned on us as the cowards they are, raped our women, and murdered our men and children. There is NO difference. Yet you are so keen to whitewash and downplay the acts and the supporters of the former, in favour of sticking to your hackeneyed routine of pretending as if the latter are the only ones who've done us an injustice. Foolish little man.

You'll regret it, sister. When the metaphorical honeymoon period is over; when you become accustomed to the drudgery and routine of domesticity, you'll look at your husband and think, "I cut my kesh for THIS?"