Kira

Yes and No. No in the sense we don't believe in an eternal Damnation for all of eternity in hell and Yes in the sense many spheres or realms which I suppose are akin to Heaven or hell exist. For a Sikh none of it should really matter. Our Goal is freedom from the life cycle. Our Guru Sahib's described Heaven as being near the Guru, inside the Sadh Sangat and hell as being seperation from Guru sahib. Some will tell you no, some will say yes. But their all coherent on the point that we should put it all out of our heads as it's not our concern.

Nah bro, I'm aware of that :D. Loads of exoplanets out there. I know Sikhs will adapt no problem, I was just pondering it all. Imagine seeing a sunset every year or so. Or even longer or in some cases never. Things like kepler 452b are really exciting in the frontier of possible extra-terrestrial life.

There's no regulation in Punjab as far as im aware. Drugs,booze and everything are rife. Corruption further makes it easier for people to exploit the masses with these substances. Even Sikh philosophy is being tampered with. Everything the Guru Sahib fought against are now being added back. In the west however there's a nice presence of Sikhs who are sort of filtering out the badness that's being mixed into Sikhism. People like BasicsOfSikhi are slowly but surely providing people with information on what true Sikhism is. Even forums help. My,My for someone born in Canada your love for Sikhism (or atleast your enthusiasm) is a refreshing thing to see. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you.

no worries. the same thing that's exciting you is actually one of the prime factors i love Sikhism.

imagine trying to do Nitnam on some other planet. In some places a day is longer than a year there lol.

Forgive my lack of brainpower as I am severally drained right now but how is it before Muhammed's time. Carbon dating is giving a rough estimate which is very well within the time frame of Muhammed's life. I think more research needs to be done on this one. Anything over 800 years old is usually harder to date and approximations vary greatly. It's still an interesting notion that Muhammed may have plagiarized the very scripture millions now follow.

http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/gss_sikhscience.pdf here you go :D . Read this, it's very informative and even briefly describes the more trustworthy theories going round. And then it explains what Sikhi says.

How ironic you call me delusional yet it is you who decide that you're completely right and infallible, then by extension live in a life of baseless assumptions without trying to comprehend anything outside of what any random person will tell you It's alright my Hindu Sister, you may flourish yet.

Guru Har Rai Ji deemed Guru har Krishan Ji as the most worthy successor to the Guru-ship. I have no knowledge of what the Sangat wanted at the time but Guru Sahib's older brother (Ram Rai) changed Gurbani. Guru Sahib told him to go where he pleased and had Sikhs stop associating with him. I wish people would realize that even as Childs, the Guru Sahib were all extremely unique. Guru Tegh Bahadur fought a war at 13 and that's where he got the title of Tegh Bahadur. Guru Nanak Dev Ji used to leave learned scholars stunned in silence at a young age. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was also given the Guru-Ship at a young age. No one seems to remember that. Baba Atal Rai brought his friend back from the dead. Age is hardly a measure of intelligence,competency of the average human being. Let alone divine beings like Guru Sahibs. Guru Granth Sahib Ji even had pages left blank (during the time of the first Saroop which was written under the Guidance of Guru Arjun Dev Ji) as to provide Space for the more knowledge that was to be written down and revealed. The Pages were the exact right amount for Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's bani to be incorporated. Rather than looking at them as Separate Entities, look as them as one Jott. Simran Benji. This isn't one of those Desi Drama with the dramatic music D:

>Claims bathing in the Ganges purges people of sins >Ignores any gurbani that contradicts thats her views And I'm the one that's not a Sikh. lmao. OK My dear Hindu Sister. You're the one sole truth in this world!

Strange how you responded to it then yeah. I dont think you have any right to call anyone out considering you don't even bother to learn who certain Bani was written by, But hey I made a mistake and I was willling to accept it, was having a very interesting discussion with another USER about Mata Sundri so her name was on my fingertips. But oh well as usual you think everyone else is at fault and you're once again right. That's ok. Funny how you decide to miss out the fact she had KAUR in her name since that was also an extremely important part of her identity. It's alright my Hindu Sister. You just stick to bathing in your Ganges. Who knows, maybe it might wash out the conflicting ideologies that are clearly dancing in your mind :swing:

Why should it matter to you for you caste system>everything else. Edit: yes Mata Sahib was called the Mother of the Khalsa. However in some cases Mata Sundri Ji was also called Mother as a mark of respect of her union to the 10th master. He just destroyed your arguments in one swoop. You'll still stay in denial and deny Gurbani and History as you're more concerned with being Punjabi than being a Sikh, but that's alright my fellow Hindu Sister. He hasn't generalized anything. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did reject the thread and as a result rejected the Caste System. As did every other Guru Sahib. The only person who sees Castes are people like you that use the shroud of equality to hide the false pride you have in your caste.

Our Guru Sahibs were heavily against the Caste System. Once you drink Amrit, God becomes your caste, Guru Gobind Singh Ji becomes your father and Mata Sundri becomes your mother. There is no place for Caste System in Sikhism. There's nothing logical about it and anyone who does take pride or think it's alright for it to exist is simply trying to corrupt Sikhism. Almost all Rehets are universal on this that once you take Amrit, you're past self,name,caste,occupation is all razed. Though that bank account analogy is spot on :yay:

Strangely enough they were familiar with Chandi Di // and what was being depicted there. When I questioned them they told me it was about a goddess doing battle. I asked them to explain what it actually meant but couldn't. I think certain things are highlighted there more than others but it is very strange. Since coming here however they are a bit more in touch with Sikhism. Though they still carry those beliefs which are more hinducentric than Sikh centric. strange i cant write v a r

Interesting. I'll have to read a bit more on that. My knowledge of the Dasam Granth is somewhat limited to Bittchar Natak, Jaap Sahib an the chaubi avatar, Akal Utstat I guess for since i've scanned it before. I'm intrigued you mentioned it was a creation of rogue elements trying to influence Sikhism. I have an aunt and uncle who were educated in India. In terms of Sikhism their knowledge is somewhat lacking. However they can tell me quite a bit about Bani from the Dasam Granth. Weirdly enough what Japji Sahib entitles is still a mystery to them.

No you simply change your thoughts and anything you don't like on a whim. You have a line of thought when someone follows it, you backtrack and change it all over again. Rather than consulting Gurbani you literally just consult an average human being (by the sounds of it your sangat are very Pendu in thinking and seem to enjoy mixing rancid parts into Sikhism). It;s pretty obvious to everyone here you're avoiding the obvious question if the Guru sahib had a caste or not. Just answer it lmao. You're brand argument and clothes fall short as you can change you're clothes and you're brand. You're the one asserting that Akal Purkh wants the world to be in castes, now prove it. I can prove Akal Purkh wants/doesn't want who is blessed with hair or not. I can prove that Akal Purkh assigns a gender to everyone. Because it's all written there in Gurbani and then to an even less lower study it exists in science. NOW you prove that he wants everyone to have a caste. ANSWER THE QUESTION DID GURU SAHIB HAVE A CASTE OR NOT. YES OR NO. Except gurbani isn't one little pixel or one spec of paint on a painting. IT'S A MASSIVE PORTRAIT. Something you fail to comphrehend. Gurbani isn't just "lets recite it and that's me following Guru Sahib's teaching" it's contemplating it, understanding it and then abiding by it. That's why pauses exist in Gurbani. That's why you need to research as much as you can and then come to a logical conclusion. EVEN the straight forward lines have a complexity behind it. The basic messages of Gurbani are repeated and echoed all through the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Literally every single Amrit Sanchar in the world states the caste is discarded, the whole point of it is you're literally "killed" and reborn as a Pure being, you just addressed Caste as "maya" are you now going to doubt Amrit Sanchar and start mixing Maya into it lmao. But you as usual think you know better than them and Guru Sahib. Correction- you'll believe whatever some random person wearing a Phug and a beard will tell you. You'll take their word as law and then slowly start changing everything so it fits said view. Not an expert but a couple of points bro. The Dasam Granth was complied much later as you rightfully stated by Bhai Mani Singh Ji with the help of Mata Sundri Ji. The Bani was complied into one Bir, the exact purpose of it is unknown but the point was to simply collect all of the Bani of the 10th Master. There's also a bit of Debate about a small portion of the Guru Granth Sahib which may have been attributed to the 10th Master. I'm not 100% sure about that but it was due to tenth being used instead of 9th in reference to Guru Tegh Bahadhur Ji. The main reason many Sikhs have a sort of guarded Approach to the Dasam Granth was due to some rather unorthodox things being mentioned within it. I've not read it all but I have heard there are aspects of some rather well strange things I guess for us, being inside it. Again I'm not an expert and I definetely don't want to dishonour Guru Sahib's bani should it be. So I do apologize from the bottom of my heart to Maharaj if i've said anything stupid. Some bani such as jaap Sahib and others were easier to get. As in a letter to Mata Sundri Ji, Bhai mani Singh explains how gathering some others was proving to be a challenge. But you're 100% right that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Guru. As Such our Primary source of information should always be Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not the Dasam Granth. The point of the Dasam Granth (i feel anyways) was to add extra information for Sikhs from what I gathered. retell well known legends from a Sikhism point of view. I can only speculate but Bhai Mani Singh Ji and Mata Sundri didn't want that Bani being lost and corrupted. That's my thoughts on it, I could be entirely wrong. There was a similar story about when Guru arjun Dev Ji was compiling and gathering the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. To stop people corrupting Gurbani and providing the Panth with a Granth. Even back then Guru Sahib said that the Adi Granth (Guru granth Sahib ji, feel the need to add this here so I don't feel like im disrespecting Guru Sahib) was treated with so much respect that Guru arjun Dev Ji refused to ride horseback but instead walked beside the Pothi as they were being carried. Guru Sahib will always,always have an answer for everything. Any teachings that are totally contradictory to Guru Granth Sahib Ji should be investigated. Nothing in any bani i've come across has done that. Individuals however are a different story. Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji said something totally amazing about the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. That Guru Sahib left out one thing. He left out falsehood from it from he compiled it.

Obviously, there may be better written ones but if you go by sales and how much it makes by sheer numbers I'd argue it is the most popular in that sense, it also set a record for the most printed comic book as well. It's current movie made more than than the entire Naruto movie franchise did with all of it's movies combined. So by numbers it is the most popular. Though now that I think about it DBZ could hold that spot. I may be wrong entirely haha. Don't really pay attention to numbers. going off topic here so no more chat of this.

Very true Bhaji. Only a being who's merged with God knows, we can't even come close to describing anything. ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ ॥ जे को आखै बोलुविगाड़ु ॥ Je ko ākẖai boluvigāṛ. If anyone presumes to describe God, ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੨੬॥ ता लिखीऐ सिरि गावारा गावारु ॥२६॥ Ŧā likī▫ai sir gāvārā gāvār. ||26|| he shall be known as the greatest fool of fools! ||26||

That's from One Piece (probably the most popular anime out right now). The fight is from the One Piece Movie Z. It's the latest movie and it depicts a battle between Admiral Kizaru and Zephyr. or was lol. I just changed it.

Except that;s why I said many? So what you're saying now is Guru sahib was born entangled into Maya lol. Basically what you're saying is when Guru arjun dev Ji wrote his letter's to Guru Ram Das Ji they were all engrossed in Maya. Well done on literally insulting every Mahapurkh that walked. Why on Earth are you comparing The Caste System to human gender? Human Gender is common in everyone. It's what Waheguru give you, I asked you to find out where in the Genome it states what Caste someone is and you totally failed lol. For you being punjabi is first then it's being Sikh. Despite the fact countless Gurbani quotes, some evidence backed by learned Sikh scholars have all proven your stupid arguments false time and time again. You still think you're 100% right. For once in your life look at the world as a Sikh not a Punjabi. I know that's very hard for you but maybe you should do it. I literally just explained why it's mentioned, Gurbani isn't just "look at translations and we completely understand". Gurbani uses what people were familiar with to CONVEY A point. If you want to take the Literal meaning of everything then feel free to believe it's a bull holding the Earth up, feel free to think Guru Nanak Dev Ji was bowing to Brahma. It's pretty funny how you were all for believing a bull could hold the Earth up but when the Caste System is mentioned you zealously defend it. My,My aren't we proud of it. For you it's always been "What I believe" never "what Gurbani believes and says". You'll do anything to hold onto what other human beings have taught you rather than surrounding yourself to Gurbani completely. The bull point was literally one of the first things refuted in Japji Sahib.

Any religion that has rituals/rites which are Earth bound will remain earth Bound. That was Guru Nanak refuting that claim. Later on he says. Then in the Dasam Granth it was mentioned again this time by being used as a means to convey the point that the battle was so intense it felt like the entire world was shaking. A point to note is that Earthquakes can be triggered very easily, by men alone. Maybe you should take a look up at the night Sky, open up an astronomy book. I know you have a massive allergy to learning but it might do you good to know that it's not some bull holding the world in place but Gravity. A part of GOD'S power. Oh look, I see science has said the same as Gurbani. Wonder how that happened. You just admitted Castes as a form of Maya, aka their false. Are you now saying that all the Saints who wwalked the Earth were bound by MAYA? ok then Yes you are. You're purposely adding whatever Hindu ideology you want into the mix. In every Amrit Sanchar people go to die. They kill their old self and their caste,self etc all become nothing. Anyone who starts referring to their caste after taking Amrit is breaking the very oath they took. The fact that you keep running from my question is only proving to everyone that you're Hinducentric views are nonsense but you don't want to admit you're wrong. You'd rather just suggest Gurbani is or start tampering around till it fits you. Like it or not but you're the one who's vain. You're kind of thinking is keeping the Caste system going despite the fact Guru Sahib completely discarded it.

Talking is somewhat too...underwhelming I guess. Talking requires a mouth. Waheguru has no mouth as he's formless I guess. The most we can say is They communicated, as like you said no one really knows the Specifics. Except Waheguru.

Yup, right 100%. I'll leave this here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIlltfYx-5Y i think this does some justification to the aims and the importance of the Khalsa.

Maybe you should look up some of them before passing baseless statements as usual. The Dasam Granth also uses the bull that supports the Earth according to some Hindu Beliefs as a means to convey how devastating a battle was. I GUESS NOW THERE ACTUALLY IS A BULL SUPPORTING THE EARTH. Let's ignore Japji Sahib where is deemed false So yes or no. Did the Guru Sahib's body have a caste. Just specify. I just posted Gurbani which states that a saint's body is pure. But you're defiling it by adding a caste onto it. SO YES OR NO DID THE GURU SAHIB'S BODIES HAVE A CASTE OR NOT. Only person with any hankar is you who decides to change Gurbani and Guru Gobind Singh Ji

I believe the Sakhi took place in Dera Baba Nanak. It's part of the janamsakhis which have been compiled. It's one of the more consistent ones too. Guru Nanak Dev Ji did disappear for 3 days and when he came back he proclaimed all man is equal and one. That was when he started uttering Japji Sahib which was handed down to him by Akal Purkh. Guru Nanak used to bath in the river every morning for Ishnaan I believe. A thing to note is that Guru Sahib's body disappeared too, During the time after he passed his light onto Guru Angad Dev Ji. So it's all that plausible.