16 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

True. But to hold any military position or many jobs entails lapses of maryada. 

In the united states Sikhs have only recently had the right to Kesh recognized. You still can't put Sikh down as your religion, it's not a provided option. 

How many people eat out of maryada for work? Cut Kesh to join all sorts of professions? Don't wear Dastar? Don't carry Kirpan?

Or even worse possibly, see and do things that are corrupt, say racist things? To get on. 

Don't hindustani cops wear a lego turban too?

As much as a starched Paagh seems stupid it's also a lot of work to go to, to be able to still wear a Paagh instead of a british hat. 

The fact is maryada lapses, professionaly, are widespread. Some of the Sikhs I know and respect the most own liquor stores? Is it the end of the world? No. Is it maryada? Certainly not. It's not Gurmat to even touch the container. 

There is a variety of casteism going around, and has been, none of it is Gurmat. 

It's exacerbated by the fact we use democracy in the Gurudwara, thanks to the brits, and Jatts are 60 percent of the Paanth. 

Really we should turn our focus to changing representation in the Gurudwaras, through a selection Panj Pyare, representative system. 

 

However, when someone has taken Khanday dee pahul, then breaching maryada is worse. The haircut compromises were only for sehajdhari.

15 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think you are in complete denial of your own jaats actions. There's a reason why every other last jaat moves away from yourselves. And it stems from your sociopathic behaviours. 

most of the east african sikhs and east african desis I have come across are messed up in their mentality and behaviour in one way or another! You can't deny that tarkhans that come from villages in India probably behave similar to jatts in some ways, due to living closely to them in the pends. People from pend will behave like people from pend, while urban sikhs will behave differently.

at the moment, the issues are not confined to any caste. tarkhan, jatt, khatri, brahmin, even some afghan sikhs are all having issues, girls from all the backgrounds are posting nangi pics online and getting into drinking. shisha/hookah bars are frequented by different backgrounds, removing kesh is performed by all bacgkround except maybe the afghan sikhs.

it's not caste based issues now, it's more psychological and social issues, pehd chaal sheeple mentality by ALL CASTES!

there are so many intercaste marriages now that behaviours have become blurred.

8 hours ago, proactive said:

Anyone who has had the misfortune to interact with a East African Tarkhan would recognise the truth of your post. If anything you have downplayed their negatives and played up what little good they have in them. Daily is a East African Tarkhan par excellence. Daily is a one man representative of his people. They are masters at projecting their own negatives on to others. 

 

And here is the proof, projecting the Tarkhan tendency to move away from each other because even they know that each and every Tarkhan suffers from sociopathic personality disorder, each one trying to outdo the other in backstabbing as many people as they can. Look at Daily himself, the dude couldn't even get a woman to marry him, I mean he must be the worse example of a Tarkhan if he couldn't even get a Tarkhanani to marry him! 

Truthfully, the problems are with east african desis including east african punjabis and east african sikhs, east african  tarkhans/jatts/khatris etc. The only reason east african tarkhans are mentioned because they are in the majority, and they do affect the behaviour of any indian tarkhan relatives they have.

I could write up about all the negative experiences I have had from different east africa sikhs I have known or still know, just can't be bothered. Most were tarkhans, but a few were jatts and one is khatri. To summarise, some being perverts including uncles going to stripclubs, casual attitudes towards women from quite a few amritdharis, amritdharis giving up their identities to get or married with a guy/girl, one of the mona pervs is a borderline peado who makes fake online profiles to chat up guys and his cousin is a druggie, the druggie also told me why some tarkhans hid their surnames at Guru Nanak School, some Singhs and families seeming to be brainwashed by nishkam sewak jatha teachings, oh and a naamdhari girl who posts pics online with her naamdhari dad and naamdhari bros but also dresses nanghi, gets upset about the jatt word and has recently posted pics of getting engaged to a mona! ... And a gujurati who. is actually a handsome guy and could very easily be mistaken for a punjabi(from Ugandan migrant parents) who I met as he was teaching a course at a College,  he is twice divorced and just posts pornographic content into any whatsapp group he is added to so had to let him go after that!

I mean, yes these things happen in every background, but most of the kenya sikhs/desis I come across are messed up in one way or another, I always somehow attract them and some of them want to hang out with me and go places. I have cut off contact with most of them.  One of the positives with kenya tarkhans is they don't try and force the alcohol as many jatts and even punjabi brahmins try and do. Punjabi brahmins, now that's another discussion to be had as well!

And your statement about takhanani, to be honest I have always found tarkhanis to be easier to chat to than jattis, I think maybe some jattis are known to be stuck up? I had a few tarkhan female friends but I am not in contact with them anymore. To be honest, I don't talk to many punjabi girls anymore and my experiences were from the 2000s and start of 2010s, so maybe some attitudes have changed to do more intercaste marriages.

 

One of the positive things about Trumpp's translations, was that he didn't try to distort the various shabads used by Guru ji into meaning the abrahamic/christian God. that is one of the negative things about later translations including Mcauliffe.

However Trumpp was poor at maryada, lighting up a cigarette/cigar during a conference in presence of Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj

On 6/30/2020 at 12:26 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Right on bro. That's excellent. 

lol bro I have missed so many days since being busy on my machine learning course while working full time 

On 2/10/2022 at 5:32 PM, proactive said:

 

Clear evidence that the Jats were oppressed? What you have are letters sent home by Sipahis, so you think every soldier was oppressed? There is no doubt that especially in WW1 that the conditions these soldiers fought in were very bad and even some British units mutinied and had to be court martialled. You are a joker. So based on an article you think that every Sikh soldier was a slave of the British. I think you are projecting the slavery that your own Tarkhans underwent in East Africa on to Jats. Being in the army was a way to  maintain a martial tradition, apart from Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, whose name you people had to adopt to gain some credibility in the Panth when he and his family were the only Tarkhans to ever achieve anything of note. The rest of your people have always been losers  and maintain that 'proud' heritage into this century. Your people never had a martial history and that we the reason you people were never enlisted in the army because you were never classed as a martial race. Nothing to do with earning more money, if that was the case then Tarkhans would have more landholdings but they are behind dalits in land holdings. 

All the agricultural groups, Jats, Rajputs, Kambohs, Sainis, Lobanas and now even the Rai Sikhs (formerly pastoral Mahtams who when they came to Sikhi took to agriculture and were allotted land in the Bet regions of Malwa,) also look down on your people as losers. In the villages your people have had to move out because Dalits have started to do the same work and to a better standard than them so Tarkhans tend to work in the factories and small units in the small towns. 

So tell us about your proud history? What have you people achieved apart from being the Bhaiyas of Africa? 

 

I think it was the east african tarkhans who started this parchar against jatts in the uk. I reckon most indian tarkhans are close to jatts culturally and socially, but some indian background tarkhans started behaving like their east African relatives. When the east african desis including many east african sikhs and punjabis came to uk, they gained such bad reputations amongst the still traditional sikh immigrants from india, because the east africa sikh women were known to have haircuts and also drinking, which clashed with the traditional punjabis. Now obviously things have changed for the worse for the former traditional families now as well!

However, one of the worst thing is that east african sikhs compromised on maryada to please their british masters. I say sikhs insteads of tarkhans, because non-tarkhans also went to east africa and similarly compromised their values. I say this, because I know that some kenya sikh families are known to give pahul to their children at 6 years old, which is related to how traditional Singhs such as Nihangs Akalis also give bhujangis pahul at a young and similar age. They were probably descended from Nihang Singh ancestors, I wonder what the ancestors would say on compromising their maryada in the way I am writing the next paragraph?!

I understand the british required sikhs to tie up their beards and wear standardised turban styles in the army, maybe this was required for the east Africa train workers as well? However, I can see (and even amongst current indian army sikhs) that the beards are kept tied up with fixo/simco even after work hours, and they have passed the anti-rehit practises down to their descendants as well, with some descendants getting fed up of the fixo routine and just trimming the darhi, actually in 2000s the tramline style was popular. But the worst breach of maryada is wearing a starch pagh which can be taken off and put back on like a topi, how can rehit be so compromised for work, and then they continued doing this outside of work and passed this to descendants, whilst being Amrit-dhari Singhs as well? I knew some kenya tarkhan background Singhs at uni, their parents gave them pahul at 6 years old, and didn't even teach their children how to read  gurmukhi, the Singh was reading bani in English, like <banned word filter activated>???

Anyway, I am sure even if they were more non-tarkhans including more jatts immigrating to work for the goray in east africa, I am sure even they would also have compromised their values and sikhi, as can be seen happening in the pends now. However the hypocrisy pakhand shown by east africa/kenya tarkhans in the uk is unbelievable. As you mentioned, they want to be associated with Ramgharia misl even if many of them have no affiliation to the misl, to be honest the misl wasn't related to one caste or tribe, just that the last leaders were from tarkhan backgrounds. Many of them say they don't follow caste, yet still use their surnames and practise casteism using insults against jatts including on forums such as sikhsangat, yet it is the jatt people they solely blame for being casteist, but can't see their own casteism; but ALSO they have their own RAMGHARIA gurdwaras while saying they do not believe in caste! And to be on ramgharia gurdwara committee you have to be from tarkhan background, and nothing to do with ramgharia misl !!!

Sooo. after all that and my experiences with them it is hard for me to respect most east african sikhs, and that includes the non tarkhan ones as I have come across some, including actually a few Kenya jatt families/sikhs I have come across as well.

On 2/5/2022 at 12:54 PM, SikhKosh said:

Just like we use sullaah very commonly, muslaah is deragotary as well and rarely used but the best one is qutwaa.

What I don't understand is how our fuddhus like and share this video where the viewer is denigrating our faith, boasting of doing azaan in Harmandar Sahib and calling us Sikhraa. Check the comments, most top ones are from 'Sikhs'.

 

yeh just saw he says sikhra near the end of the video, I don't think he meant it in any disrespectful way and was being really respectful. But it does alert to the normalised use of sikhra amongst pakistanis, obviously the hate must be strong if it is normal vocabulary.

I am sure I have heard Guru ji use sikhra in gurbani as well though, so the origin may not be bad

On 2/4/2022 at 5:35 AM, 5aaban said:

Definitely urban usage, terms like Beti aren't used in authentic Panjabi. Putt (regardless of gender) can be used by elders to refer to a girl or dhiye (if you're close). 

On 2/4/2022 at 10:10 AM, 5aaban said:

Aathan is used in Malwa (west) for evening. Shaam is rare on that side. Aathan isn't popular in Puadhi-Panjabi and Ludhiana is a mix of dialects and immigrants so it's not representative of Malwa.  

In our dialect, Beta/beti/betay is considered Hindi (leaning more towards formal-urban Panjabi), we say Putt/Puttar/Dhi/Kudi. 

Some old words and phrases are disappearing from daily usage, one of them is Wadda Tarka. It was used in old music too.

And Dupaira is usually after 12pm and before 4pm. 

In Malwa and Majha dialects seasoning is called 'Tarhka'. It's only in Doaba where it's called 'Turkha' so both are correct depending on your region.  In Doaba, the 'i' sound is also changed to 'e' (e.g. Pind is pronounced 'Pend'). 

'Chuk' (pick) is used in Majha & Doaba and it becomes 'Chak' in Malwa. Similarly 'Sutt' (throw) used in Majha & Doaba changes to 'Sitt' in Malwa.

There's no right and wrong when it comes to these dialect differences, each dialect has it's unique vocabulary and pronunciations. 

 

 

I heard from katha that kurri actually comes from the word koora, ie that it is a derogatory word for women.

On 2/5/2022 at 11:05 AM, Premi5 said:

instead of 'paisa/paise' , 'vaise' some (have heard all over Panjab but esp Majhails) say 'pahe' 'vahe'

From what you know of different dialects in Indian Panjab, which region or subregion's dialect has changed the most ?

I would guess Majha since it got cut off from Pakistani Panjab, and Malwa has become the dominant cultural and political area in Indian Panjab ?

Wrt to your point about y/z/j - I think they are all potentially correct - Gurmukhi written Panjabi only got standardised post-partition ?

Do you have any way to identify where in Panjab someone/there family is from when you speak with them ? Like any particular words which give it away ?

I wonder how much punjabi has changed with neo-gurmukhi introducing pehr bindi letters using z, p and sh 

4 hours ago, Premi5 said:

@GurjantGnostic

Bravo to Sikh PA; they even want to do more help/seva for the Kaum to tackle Social Media idiots...

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Fantastic bro. They've been by far the best at getting back to us. Good on you emailing them about those tiktoks. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@datpakistanipunjabi account has been deleted now

On 1/15/2022 at 11:37 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

The fact that she has not yet, proves to me Guru Granth Sahib Ji takes you. 

On 1/13/2022 at 1:38 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Lol. My little secret is out. No, I'm a first unfortunately. My mom is close. I'm hoping the Guru Granth Sahib takes her up. 

you are in the uk right, whereabouts?

On 1/21/2022 at 10:27 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

could have put down shaheedi degh here 

On 1/21/2022 at 10:19 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

 

 

Could have had 2 or 3 wives. 10 wives is even more than enough for most puraatan Singhs, exceptions were Maharajas like Ranjit Singh. 

On 1/10/2022 at 8:01 PM, Kau89r8 said:

@Premi5

Yes, i thought MirPuris Pakistani Punjabi because in the UK they seem to have certain traits (can you guess lol) 

Thats really interesting ...a snake charmers..

no idea about the traits, all I know is other pak punjabis think of mirpuris as rubbish/trash.

On 1/6/2022 at 12:00 AM, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

bibi, if you look at our itihaas, that was never how we flourished nor how we prospered

as long as we were under pressure, we were in chardikala and rising in numbers and dominance 

sikhi didnt grow by there being a couple hundreds or thousands sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh ji having children, we grew as people came into the fold of sikhi seeing what we are about 

its not like we havent produced offspring in last century or so but we havent had a bigger erosion in sikhi principles since the periods of the guru, and we havent had such a loss in our khajana (primarily due to sgpc management on top of the dwindling disinterest of our own people), the past century has been more brutal to us as a people than the mughals

our echos and psyche has been damaged, far worse than any ghallughara from 18th century   

having more kids aloof to sikhi is pointless if we dont have the parchar and resources in place beforehand, unless we want them to inherit the disfragmented sikhi that is dominant right now 

and again, need not worry bout numbers as our numbers have been 96 crore from the beginning and will be for eternity, as it is right now as well, time will bring them out when we are in dire need 

sikh families used to have a lot more children at the first half of the last century, and before the last century, there were also polygamous marriages, probably not many like Raja Ranjit Singh though.

Proper rehitee families should be having more children, but these families which are destroying sikhi values should have less children as possible. Actually maybe they are better off in the girlfriend boyfriend stuff like goray than getting married and grihast,

On 1/14/2022 at 12:41 PM, dallysingh101 said:

It's got to be said as well. I've routinely met guys in their 40s/50s and sometimes even 60s who are in better shape and physically stronger than a lot of 25 year old who are supposed to be in their prime. These guys can graft! 

make the money, get comfortable and then exercise time