GavinSingh

yeah far too many big words, prefer something with pictures.....you have to have free trial, so will look at it later. From what I am gathering, it seems the best approach to our history is to look at anything that was definitely not written during the times of Gurus will have some ingested colour, bias and even outright lies, especially if it doesn't match the Guru Granth Sahib. Eg many passages outrightly condemn drugs so why would it be ok for the Gurus and their followers to carry opium? Surely the energy of the Dsahmesh pitha was enough. The opium story can only be true if the Guru was indeed an ordinary fellow, just like me and you, well maybe like me. Thx

I've just ordered his book, so will look at it closely. Ha Gavin ? who says what is a Sikh name ? is their a book? or maybe a Granth, Is Ram a sikh name?, what constitutes a Sikh name ? I've never heard of Dally either or is it supposed to be Wally, maybe better suited hey?

I wonder if its a good idea that we should believe drug induced poets when retelling our history. Santokh Singh has basically made our Guru and his followers into drug abusers. Opium is probably one of the worst drugs for addiction and we are supposed to believe that our Dashmesh Pitha was a user. Some of the comments on here are hugely disturbing, the way people so eagerly believe if Nihangs do it then its ok ? Have you spoken to Nihangs when intoxicated, they are so far removed from Sikhi its unbelievable. I think its about time we boycotted so called Granth's that are anathema to our Guru Granth Sahib.

Some great points in here Bhaji. Will have a look through at them in detail and form a response. Just one quick point - Does Chirittar 3 translate as the english version into something like this - the young lady was having it with the slender chap, they were interrupted by her old fat husband. Slender lover runs off. As she gets up the young mans semen drips onto the floor , when the old man asks what is that ? The woman responds by saying in very basic terms - I was wet thinking about you, thats why its wet on the floor. Is this completely wrong ? Just want to understand if this translation is wrong. Thanks

Ok. i'm gonna ask you to think long and hard, don't be hurt by this but really reflect on this. Sit. Ponder. If Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted to impart on us some wisdom about Kaam or about the treacheries of the world especially within the sexes, would it not have been beneficial for him to have written a clear Rehit just dedicated to sexual conduct or did he believe the clear messages contained within the GGS would be sufficient. You might argue that people learn better through stories so thats why he did it but when you can't even read a large portion of those stories to your daughter or son whats the point. Its not prudishness - its trying to work out what would be the point? Statistically men are more likely to commit adultery but thats not the case in these stories.

i've not made up my mind, i have some opinions that I am will be challenged - I 'm just trying to find a plausible reason why are dashmesh pitha would write this.

Ah the Mahapurakh/Baba argument - become a learner yourself, study it, read it, make up your own mind not if your baba agrees with it or not.

Yes i pretty much have taken my understanding of the charitar from one translation, which is clumsy on behalf BUT i have watched content and read plenty of articles on both side of the argument and translations aside they talk of the same issues. I have started to read them all bit by bit and so far about 80% have put the dangers/ deceptiveness in the woman. I will try and find another translation of the Chiritars. You must understand the whole reason for the Chiritars is that they are being told as a way of making the king realise the trickery of his wife so of course WOMEN are going to be made to look like deceivers in most of the stories otherwise the minister is not doing a very good job. Now if this the reason - Guru Gobind Singh ji in all his glory, wisdom and spiritual grace decides to put pen to paper and write these stories. He would surely understand that the reader might perceive them as how they were intended to see women as tricksters/deceivers. This simple reasoning, in my eyes makes it totally unimaginable that GGSJ would decide to translate these stories, and dedicate 1/3 of a granth to it, even if it was as a side project, it makes little sense especially as the learning gained from these stories is minuscule in comparison to the GGS. All stories have some learning but that isn't my argument, I am trying to discuss if the author of the Dasam Granth is Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

So...... women are evil, dangerous, murderers, sexual deviants and prostitutes?, yet statistically it's much more likely that men will commit adultery than women. I think you need to see Women in a different light, maybe through how Gurbani describes them.

ok so its like a director making a pornographic film as a test for people to see if they get turned on by the film. Do you think it might be best that he probably don't try and make it in the first place, that way he's not wasting his time, he's not thinking of kaam, or getting people to do kaam and then editing kaam, that's a lot of Kaam. Your understanding is flawed. I think It's HUGELY disrespectful to think our Dasmesh Pitha, after fighting numerous battles, gives up his whole family, starts a panth, recites the bani to Bhai Mani Singh, then finds the time to write a granth which 1/3 compromises of how women are wicked, evil, only think of sex and are always deceiving men. Did he think this of his own mother or wife? I really don't think so. You obviously haven't read the Guru Granth Sahib. Maybe you agree with the NKJ Kaam test ?

doesn't he do this every year?

So do you believe/ agree with this section and that the author is Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Hello - no not same person but it looks like this thread and some questioning has opened some wounds.

http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/chritro pakhyaan (vol 1) complete book.pdf Its a real eye opener. Yes i don't have the original translation but everyone always says you can't read this section of the Dasam Granth.

Here have a read of Chritar 3 - let me know what you think?