killah

A much better question to ask would be ask what are the root causes for a person to commit honour killings? We can't just say its just culture or supersititions or mental illness/evilness cause by then its too late. We should examine the root causes what causes a supposed loving family switch and want to carry out this evil crime. I would say its down to honour, respect and faith. In many cases of honour kilings it is usually the girl who has some how brought shame onto her family by getting involved with a guy from another religion/caste or not suitable to their desires. The majority of honour killings in the west are carried out by paki muslim families, though sikhs and others also have a fair share of cases too. This problem is not confined to one religion it seems to stem mainly from those whose ethnic and cultural heritage is from the middle east and indian subcontinent.

I saw that documentary basically the British muslims are saying they want to kick off a civil war or ethnic cleasening against them, thats the impression I got from the program. They talked about how they want to be seperate from british society, one can understand that seeing all these drunks and slappers out every weekend but to follow their religion to the letter, which their young are increasing doing would mean they become more seperated from british way of life like totally 180 degrees and would want to follow shariah law, as a good muslim. This means in the future there will be a high possiblity of a religious conflict with muslims because they are inheriantly seperatists if they follow their religion 100%, they want to be seperate from non-muslims because they view them as inferior, non-believers and corrupted. These views are even held by young moderate muslims, though they would not like it known to the wider public. Approx 25% support the London bombings of 7/7 in which 52 innocent civilians were murdered and hail the killers as martyrs. We all have a reason to be concerned because it shows we must be ready to tackle any extremism they try on us, we cant say we werent warned or did not know the impact of the beliefs they hold. And yes lastly all this is generally true, just view the documentary yourself and research the polls conducted of british muslims.

First lets start with all the jatt sites, as they form the majority. Then we can think about getting rid of the 1 or 2 sites other castist sites like this.

Good, I look forward to your departure from these forums, your contribution and posts on this site has been less than productive and in many cases inciteful like this topic. You probably will come back under another username in a couple of days, it wouldnt suprise me.

Inderjeed Singh: lost in Kabul Caroline Moorehead 22 - 7 - 2003 The epic journey of a Sikh man from the Afghan city of Jalalabad to London’s Southall district ended with his deportation to Kabul by the British authorities. If this policy of forced return of Afghans becomes standard practice, what will happen to the legions of the lost in Iran and Pakistan? ------------------------------------------ Inderjeed Singh Kaboor is a Sikh from Jalalabad, a city in Afghanistan that lies between Kabul and the border with Pakistan. In December 2001, he fled to the United Kingdom in search of asylum. In June 2003, I met him back in Afghanistan, where he was camping in the dormitory of a Sikh gurdwara (temple) in Kabul, one of a planeload of deportees of rejected Afghan asylum-seekers arranged by Britain’s Home Office from Gatwick airport. He was despondent and confused. Jalalabad is a large, busy city, little ruined by years of war. It has an old, well-established Sikh community. When the Communists were in charge, until 1992, Inderjeed Singh’s family thrived. They ran a textile business and lived together, parents and eight children, in a large house. But with the takeover of power by the mujahideen, life grew tougher; there were constant demands for bribes. And when the Taliban came in 1996, the Sikhs found themselves hedged in with restrictions, constantly harassed in the streets and soon virtual prisoners in their own homes. “Soon after the arrival of the Taliban my father and other Sikh elders were taken prisoner and had to pay to be released”, Inderjeed Singh explains. “Then one day I was taken prisoner too and kept in a small narrow room with my eyes blindfolded. I was released after my father paid a ransom, but the Taliban beat me and broke my nose and my hand”. A life in limbo In the months that followed, the family shared the fate of many of Afghanistan’s persecuted people: they cowered at home, the men seldom daring to attend the gurdwara, the women too frightened to be seen in the streets. Early in 2000, Inderjeed Singh’s father decided that life was too dangerous for his older children, and arranged with an agent to send Inderjeed’s older brother abroad. He paid the trafficker $10,000, money saved from the textile business over the years. When this son reached Britain, and found asylum, he sent his next three children, all girls, to join him. “Life was getting harder and more dangerous for us all the time”, says Inderjeed Singh. ”We were not allowed to worship and now not even the men left the house. I had trouble with a Muslim family, whose daughter had become a friend of mine. The father insisted that I marry her and that I convert to Islam. When I refused, he said that he would have me killed.” A further $10,000 was found, and Inderjeed Singh was put into the hands of traffickers. His journey to Britain, where he hoped to join his brother and sisters in the London district of Southall, took three and a half months. It started on the back of a lorry to Peshawar, from where Inderjeed was smuggled across the border under some bales of cloth. There he spent many weeks in hiding alongside other would-be emigrants in a house he was forbidden to leave. After this came a series of journeys, by lorry, once by car, once by plane. Inderjeed Singh says that he was not told where he was, nor informed of the stages of his journey - for his own, and the traffickers’, safety. In between he spent days and nights in safe houses, alone or with others. He was given food and water, but little else. “Finally we reached some kind of dock. It was mid-December. I was hidden at the very back of a lorry transporting fridges and freezers to the UK. I could feel the lorry being loaded onto a boat. It was totally dark. I could hear voices but I couldn’t see anything. At last I was told to get out. The agent who had brought me took me to London on a train, and then left me, telling me to find a policeman and ask for his help. A policeman directed me to a Sikh temple and they helped me to contact a solicitor and the Home Office and ask for asylum.” What Inderjeed Singh did not know when he arrived in the UK, was that in his absence the Taliban had fallen, and a new transitional government was in place in Afghanistan. The persecution of the Sikhs and other ethnic and religious groups was officially over. To be Afghan had ceased to be a passport to a new refugee life in the west. Having traced his brother and moved to live with him in Southall, Inderjeed Singh soon heard that his request for asylum had been turned down, on the grounds that he no longer need fear persecution at home, and that his difficulties with his Muslim neighbour were not valid reasons to win him refugee status. Through his solicitor, he appealed. This, too, was turned down. One day, when he went to sign in as he had been instructed, he was taken into custody and told that he would be deported. “I spent one night in detention in Gatwick. My brother brought me a suitcase with some clothes. Next day I was put onto a plane, with about forty-five other deportees and two immigration officers. No one struggled, but several of them were crying.” As soon as the plane landed in Kabul, Inderjeed Singh used the little money he had with him to make his way home to Jalalabad. There he found the family home deserted. His parents and younger brothers and sisters had vanished. He has no idea where they are, and no one was able to help him find them. He returned to Kabul and found help from the Sikh gurdwara to the south of the city, where he has joined others who are penniless and who have taken refuge in its precinct. None are deportees, but they lost their shops and homes under the Taliban, and their families are exiles over the border. In the gurdwara, rules are strict: in exchange for a bed in a dormitory, and food (with no animal products) the men accept that they will not play cards or watch television. Inderjeed Singh’s days are spent trying to find work and wondering what to do next and how to find his family. He longs for Britain and Southall, where he found the life congenial and where he hoped to get an education. The dangers of deportation Whatever the merits of Inderjeed Singh’s case, his claims for asylum are slender, among those of the many whose fears of persecution are very real and who have been severely tortured at the hands of the governments they have fled. In choosing their first plane loads of deportees back to Afghanistan, the Home Office was intent on selecting only young single men from the Kabul area, which it declares to be relatively tranquil and under the protection of peacekeeping forces. The new British policy also emphasises President Hamid Karzai’s appeals for the return of the many refugees from former Taliban persecution, and to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees’ (UNHCR) current programme of assisted returns. Some two million people have indeed heeded Karzai, and their own longings for home, and returned to Afghanistan since the Taliban were overthrown. This is a considerably higher number than UNHCR expected, and certainly far more than the country is able to absorb. All is not so simple, however. There is a chronic shortage of houses, jobs, schools, medical facilities and even food, and returnees have come home to find their property occupied by others and their lands rendered unusable by unexploded mines. For some years now, UNHCR has been walking a delicate line over the matter of assisted returns and deportations with Afghanistan’s neighbours, Iran and Pakistan, who absorbed the vast majority of refugees over the last troubled twenty-three years of civil conflict. These two countries, while willing to help over small transport and resettlement grants, have held firm officially to their rule that return must be voluntary, and UNHCR protection officers and staff have fought hard to keep any forced deportations under control. Yet Iran, in particular, has deported thousands of young men back over the border, at times of perceived high unemployment or unrest. In 2002 alone, Iran deported 33,000 Afghans. Despite these involuntary relocations, several million Afghans still remain in exile. They are scattered between the west, the United States and the Gulf states, but the vast majority remain stranded in Pakistan and Iran. As a result of bilateral agreements signed with both countries, UNHCR hopes to keep deportees as low as possible, at least for the next year or so, while Afghanistan struggles to rebuild itself and its economy. The position is very delicate. Amnesty International and other human rights organisations have protested strongly about the forced returns, pointing out that there is no monitoring of those who go back, and that insecurity in the country is growing, not diminishing. Moreover, according to UNHCR in Kabul, some of the young men on the plane from Britain came not from the ‘safe’ Kabul region, but far to the north, where they could not return; and others were found not to be Afghans at all but Pakistanis. This is where the story of Inderjeed Singh, a single leaf on the tree of Afghanistan’s tragedy, becomes so significant. A few plane loads of deportees from Britain will make no difference at all to the state of chronic poverty and overpopulation of Kabul. But their symbolic value is enormous. Once Britain and other European governments are seen to be deporting their unwanted Afghans, for reasons of domestic policy and popularity, what is to stop Iran and Pakistan from following suit? Then, truly, chaos will follow.

I think it's pretty much established that this boys hair was forceably cut, especially as the offenders have been names. It's a shame that these few earlier incidents in the US where some guys faked their attacks in order to cut their hair will put doubts on the authenticity of the jaipur boy's claims. True, And I believe this case to be geniune but I do not want another Sikh getting hurt or killed in India in these protests because if trigger happy police start to become heavy handed. Then all the Sikh community will be up in arms and it will turn into something more than just one incident, this can easily spread into something more deadly and destructive. Update: 1 arrested in Sikh boy's forced haircut issue Thursday, August 24, 2006 03:23:34 pm A day after protests much across north India, Arjun Meena, accused of assaulting the Sikh boy Inderjeet, was arrested in New Delhi earlier this morning and has been taken to Jaipur for questioning. Meena was accused of abducting and assaulting Inderjeet by chopping off his hair after Inderjeet allegedly witnessed Arjun Meena eve-teasing a school mate of his. The Sikh community in Jaipur is up in arms, launching a strong protest against the incident. This issue also rocked the Lok Sabha leading to its adjournment twice today. The issue was raised by Congress member Madhusudan Mistry as soon as the House met for the day. He alleged that minorities were not safe in BJP-ruled states, evoking sharp protests from Opposition benches. Home Minister Shivraj Patil assured agitated members in the Rajya Sabha that Government would take note of such incidents hurting religious sentiments. Responding to concerns expressed in the Upper House by emotionally-charged members, particularly from the Sikh community, Patil appealed to people not to fall prey to nefarious designs of certain elements to divide society by whipping up religious passions. Opposition leader L K Advani has demanded an inquiry on the school principal’s role in Sikh boy’s forced haircut issue. The protests spread Meanwhile, the Sikh community in Mumbai too staged a morcha today. About 7 to 8,000 Sikh men joined in on the peace march which extended from GTB Nagar to Dadar Gurudwara. Police were deployed to ensure that the rally went off peacefully. Some demonstrators carrying ceremonial swords tried to stop traffic momentarily along the way, by lying down across the road, others briefly staged a mock slaying. But the march ended soon after noon without any untoward occurrences. SGPC doesnt even care what went on, as if the picture of 4 sgpc men pulling a Sikh guys kesh wasnt bad enough, here we have clear evidence it is not interested in welfare of adherants of the faith. ---------- Complete Bandh observed in Amritsar JAGMOHAN SINGH Thursday, 24 August 2006 AMRITSAR: Complete Bandh has been observed in the holy city in protest against the Jaipur incident wherein, a school going Sikh youth was abducted and some identified miscreants sheared his hairs. All the educational institutions with in the city were also forced to close. It may be mentioned here that yesterday a call for Bandh was given by the various Sikh organization in protest against the Jaipur incident During the Band call today various Sikh organizations including Youth Akali Dal, Dam Dami Taksal Bhindranwala, and Sikh Students Federation were seen on the roads while wielding naked swords and forcing the people for the closure of their business establishments. A group of Sikh youths thrashed the shopkeepers who were adamant to close their establishments in the various places in the city. Inside the walled city, group of Sikh youth went on rampage and smashed the windowpanes of juice bars and eating points. However, a prime Sikh religious body SGPC (Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee) did not participate in the Bandh, even sale counter of Sikh literature house being run by SGPC was not closed.

Congratulations on getting a job dude! The best feeling is getting your first pay cheque, makes working hard it all worth while.

Are Sikhs in India jumping the gun? Remember their have been cases in UK, USA and Canada where Sikh boys have made up allegations of their hair being cut of in attacks. Then later it was found out that it is they themselves who cut their hair because of cultural pressures to "fit in".

Im skeptical of the results and the survey, as it was done online. And as anyone knows people can pretend to be anyone online. This survery has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, though some important issues have to be addressed these kind of surveys do not add any crediblity to the cause. I take issue with this line you posted: ". It is time for the men to heal our women, to be real to our women; it is time for the women to love themselves, to empower themselves just as our Gurus desired." Why is it upon men to heal women? when some women from sikh background dont have any self-respect or respect for traditional cultural/religious values. What is their to be REAL to our women about? Yes we as Sikh males love women who respect the faith and do things according to the faith. Similarly why can't majority of these "independant modern" sikh women do the same? They have more freedom and rights than most muslim women yet they abuse these hard fought won for privilages that our Guru's fought for. Why can't they chose a Sikh guy who is turbanned and committed to his religion? Look at any sikh marriage site and majority of those women who profess to be Sikh, drink alchohol, want a non-turbanned guy, have little time for family or religious commitments. I would say it is time for punjabi women from Sikh background to get real and live according to faith if they want to be taken seriously as real Sikh women. BTW wasnt you the same person who posted a video ad on youtube showing a girl in mini skirt wanting to go clubs and wear mini skirt and you lot think that should be acceptable for a sikh woman to wear? This so called "jakara movement" has no credibility anymore. I have the original video saved before that clip was edited out in the 2nd edition you posted. I can embress your movement very easily by making a counter video of these so called "modern independant" women and what they get upto in clubs and away from their families gaze.

you still got the vid? Upload it again man, the youtube guys allow content agaisnt sikhs on there and the flag burning aint even against hindu's its against the India govt for its involvement terrorism against the sikhs. Pass me the vid I'll jazz it up with words n stuff and provide the rational behind the act

That cant be the video they talking about ? its dated 2005 the one in the news is made in 2006?

Thats true. The more restrictions and rights the western govt takes away from the citizenz the more the country becomes the police state much like the islamic terrorists home countries. This in turn will bred a new generation from various religions who got persecuted by the state and turn to extremism or terrorism. Dangerous road the UK authorities are going down.

Time to name and shame? Lets post pics of these incidents on websites and email the SGPC ppl and see what they have to say of this outrageous behaviour. As for Khalistan, hmm I thought SGPC people opposed Khalistan? These people are the ones in the pay Indian Govt's hands right? Why dont we see this behaviour with the other lot aka dal khalsa and Mann's group?

hmm true, but when I was talking about adopting tactics, I was saying as in being ruthless with the legitimate military targets, proper training and military uniforms to combat the enemy troops effectively NOT adopting tactics that would harm innocent cilivians or go against the fundamentals of Sikhism.

Political circumstances at the moment do not favor any armed struggle besides the people deserve peace, that region has been plagued by violence for many years. But if violence was forced on the people through pakistani, Chinese or Indian aggression towards each other, which plunges the big nations in conflict. Then im sure they the time will come again for an armed struggle and people will take the oppertunity to break away.

Thats ok paji I didnt take any offence. Your right about the water issue too but that is recent events only now is the effects and significance of diverting water being realised by the people of punjab, particularly the farmers. Where is the water going though? With respect, It reflects good for living up to Sikh values. But in the end who cares about goodness if our nation or faith is under threat, in the end only adopting the tactics of the other side or out manvouring the enemy can azadi be achieved. Look at the examples of banda singh bhahudur and hari singh nawla who razed towns and villages to the ground of those helping the enemies of Sikhs. Their military and ruthlessness managed to establish the worlds first Sikh state within years it became the most powerful nation come empire in the region of the time. Stopping grain produced by Sikhs from the punjab would have served as an effective non-violent method of bargining power but the Indian Govt proved to what low depths they are prepared to go. Stopping all means of protest or opposition therefore can they really complain when enslaved and powerless people take up arms and fight back, I would ask them. On another issue the Sikh seperatist fighters were sitting ducks. Using 17th century techniques and uniform fighting against one of the worlds most powerful armies any wonder why it was crushed so easily when all amritdhari sikhs became legitimate targets. Looking at those also engaged fighting the Indian empire like the moaists of assam, they are well equiped with military uniforms. Military camouflaged uniforms is one thing various forces for Khalistan lacked. I think I read somewhere that in the UN charter it states for a people fighting for freedom/indepedance they should have a uniform thats distinguishably from the ordinary civilan. Maybe if an armed struggle was to broke out again sometime in future. All the lessons should be learned.

We are talking of the days in 1960s-1980s, not present day as you seem to think. This theory is not dumb trust me, even independant reporters realised the relevance of that agitation and the brutal crackdown on Sikh nationalists. Off course grain is easy to get hold of now, but back in the days it was a different story. The saying that Punjab is or was the breadbasket of India wasnt produced out of thin air, it was a matter of fact . Both the akali dal and the Indian govt knew this hence why the akali's used grain as a tool to bargin with.

We should not focus on the hindu bit that just makes Sikhs look as bad as the Islamic nutcases. The fact is the Indian elite who hold the power are made up of fake sikhs,christians, pareses(zoroestrians), bramins who all act for their own personal gains they do not care much for their follow co-religionists who they will use when they need votes. Eg, the "Indian super cop" julio riberio he is a Indian christian who adopted the policy of "bullet for bullet" and oversaw the creation of Indian terror squads (Indian blackcats dressed up Sikh seperatists) who killed many a innocent people the vast majority being innocent Sikhs and Hindus. The guy who lead the operation on darbar sahib was a fake Sikh (General brar), the man who lead the fake encounters and killing fields of Sikhs in Punjab was also a fake Sikh (KPS Gill) the president of India who oversaw operation blue star was also a fake sikh (zail singh). These people do not care about religion they only care for Indian nationalism and the personal gains from it. So next time offical statements are released to the press, lets remember who are the real oppressors of the Indian Sikhs are.

Another interesting point is the role of the sikh leadership of the time. Master Tara Singh hmmm who made him leader? Anyone know? I read somewhere that apperantly he was born a Hindu? Had most of his family murdered by muslims before partition? Sided with his "hindu brothers" and putting the Sikh share of power in within the Indian union because of these personal grivences?

I've read about the theory of Indian govt wanting to "teach the sikhs a lesson" it holds a lot of truth but the fact is the disrupture of grain from the punjab would have caused food storages in the rest of India leading to politicial unstabilty of the Indian govt and more power and leverage of the Akali dal the sikh nationalists who wanted more autonomy and for the Indian state to stop discriminating sikhs and interference in their socio-political and religious affairs.

I'd like to shove a copy of shariah law firmly where the sun dont shine in the person who proposed such retarded rubbish to government. The day shariah law is allowed in UK is the day this country gonna erupt in civil war against the islamics.

This could take lakhs and lakhs of years to discuss. Yeah it could, I've read this stuff on Indian govt many times but I was thinking time to move on give India a chance but stuff I've read from independant sources make me sick how they target our community even though Sikhs comprised the most who gave their lives in getting India free from British rule. Maybe the British govt is the real b*stards in all this. First by recruiting so many Sikhs who bravely and fought honourably for the empire dying in their thousands so that the western world was not ruled by nazi dictators. And then in the end dividing the Sikh homeland of punjab and giving it away to the newly created pakistan islamic scum and to the backstabbing hindu India. What kinda reward is that for loyality Sikhs showed. Just seems like Sikhs were taken for a ride by everyone. I hope the our new generations learn from history and do not trust in those who have betrayed our people.

Oh forgot I'd also like to chuck the Pakistan flag into the fire too it can go to hell in all for funding various projects via ISI against Sikhs in Afghanistan, India and elsewhere.

I was doing some research and come across some information that was reported before the june 1984 attack. This what REUTERS says: How sick and evil is the Indian government whose real intentions of attacking Sikh seperatists and darbar sahib was to ward of the political leverage the akali's who had by holding back produce made from their own homeland. The Indian government used the excuse of "flushing out militants" when the real reason was over grain, with punjab being the breadbasket of India. The grain withholding posed a greater threat to the Indian state's functionality than any action of Sikh seperatists could have brought. Autonomy was all that Sikhs acked for as MK gandhi and Nehru had said in their infamous speech promsing an area in the north where the Sikhs could also experience the glow of azadi (freedom) I'd like to pull out MK gandhi and Nehru from their graves and ask them wheres this glow of azadi that was promised to their Sikh brothers? And yet they got persecution and state terror of the worst kind. Right im gonna burn the nearest Indian flag I can get hold off