>Bikramjit Singh<

Good points. Also did you know that during Ramadan when Muslims fast, it is illegal in many Muslims countries for non-Muslims to eat anything in public during the daylight hours It's due to that fact that apparently its hurts Muslims' sensitivities because they are fasting and they can't handle someone who is eating!

Bro I find it hard to believe that these countries have suddenly become racist in the last few years. You need to look deeper at the reasons why they now want to ban the burkha. It's not hate, it's a desire to stop their societies being overwhelmed through Muslim immigration and highbirth rates and 2000 years of Romano-Christian civilisation being subsumed by Islamic totalitarianism. The Dutch are proud of their country's long history of tolerance and it is a sad fact of life that they have to limit this tolerance due to the actions of Muslims. Whatever the imperfections of the West may be the freedoms of the West are much closer to the Sikh ideal than the Sharia law societies of the Muslim world. In future more and more western countries will have to try control their Muslim populations and you will see more and more anti-Muslim laws. Tony Blair's govt is going the complete opposite to what the other European countries are doing. He is trying to placate the Muslims by giving them concessions thinking that this will somehow calm them down. I think after a while when you get more bombs in London he or his successor Gordon Brown will realise that they need to be tough and not molly coddle Muslims.

Some points. 1. The ban of burkha is because the Dutch have basically had enough of pandering to Muslims in the last few decades. They have tried their multi-cultural approach and whereas the Dutch have been accommodating the Muslim beliefs all they have received in return is the islamification of their society. A few years ago a Dutch film maker was killed for making a film about the suppression of Muslim women within Islam. A Somali MP who helped him is now living under police protection and another minister had to go into hiding. The Dutch were the most tolerant people in Europe and now due to the Muslims they have become one of the least tolerant. The ban is a way for the Dutch to literally take back their society from Muslim encroachment 2. There is a fear amongst the security forces that Muslim terrorists will use the burkha to bypass security and commit a terrorist act. Nothing is safe in this war and as Mohammed himself is supposed to have said "war is deceit" so the Dutch cannot expect Muslim terrorists to not take advantage of the burkha to bypass security. They are aware that there would be the usual outrage if women in burkha are searched thoroughly. So by banning the burkha they can deal with this security fear. We need to understand the pressures that the security forces are under. They face terrorists that as jehadis under their religion can take alcohol, gamble, womanise in fact do everything that is not allowed under their religion in order to fool the security forces. 3. The burkha which is a form of jilbab has a lot of support from Islamic scholars. The hijab is a recent development, the Muslims know that apart from a few women no one will want to wear a covering that covers them completely. So that's why the hijab has been made mandatory instead of the burkha-jilbab 4. After 7/7 one Muslim scholar said that it was religiously permissible for Muslim women to take off their Muslim clothing if there was any danger of attacks on them. Not only does this cover burkha but also hijab. So if the Dutch govt perceive that the burkha could be used by terrorists then surely the Muslims should understand this and make sure they cooperate with the ban. But as the Muslims are a big minority of 15-20% in the Netherlands their actions are coloured by this. In UK they are only 2.5% so they know that they are weak at the moment and need to compromise. Incidentally given the large number of Martyrs in Sikhi we get no such similar number of Martyrs in Islam. When Sikhs were offered conversion to Islam and giving up their 5 kakaars they chose to give up their lives instead. A Muslim offered such a deal can in all good conscience fake a conversion to another religion and is still deemed a Muslim as long as he believes in Islam in his heart. This is why the only Martyrs you get in Islam are those who blow themselves up to kill non-Muslims and not those who remain true to their beliefs under oppression. 5. The Sikhs are caught in the catch 22 situation here. Once again the Sikhs will suffer do to Muslim actions just as after 9/11 and then again being caught in the religious symbols ban in France. The bigger danger is if we protest against the burkha ban. This means that not only are we as Sikhs aligning ourselves with the oppression of women through forcing them to wear burkha but also in the minds of the public we will be associated with Muslims. As is usual with Muslim leaders and organisations they have a tendency to make outrageous statements and we Sikhs will get associated with these views. 6. To those who cite the Shaheedi of Guru Tegh Bahadur, we need to use our common sense here. Did Guruji give Shaheedi to protect the Brahmins from being forcibly converted to Islam or to protect their religion in toto with all the beliefs such as caste, sati etc? MKLQ bhaji gave a good reason why we should be careful not to rush in feet first into supporting the Muslims. What if someone says dowry is their religion and the government bans it, will we then also take part in protests against a dowry ban. How about if Muslims start to kill apostates from Islam as they are entitled to do according to their religion? The govt takes actions against them, do we then start to protest for the killers because their religious rights are being infringed? Who has more human rights? The one who will be killed for leaving Islam or the Muslims who only want to follow their religion and kill the apostate? Who will we support? These examples may appear extreme but rest assured they will come up one day.

I doubt they will be able to get another hotel at such short notice. Let's hope they see sense and move the wedding to the Gurdwara.

Excellent work by all the Gursikhs who took part in the campaign. I'm sure that not only the Hotel but also the 'renegade' granthi and 'communist' family have been surprised at the response to the campaign. Well done all who took part!

Here is the contact info for Jaswinder Singh Advocate coordinator of Akal Purkh Ki Fauj jsadvo@yahoo.com

I think the SGPC and Akal Takht Jathedar just want an easy life to be honest! But one thing that the R4G campaign could do is to contact likeminded Sikh youth organisations in Punjab, one that comes to mind instantly is Akal Purkh Ki Fauj. I think one of the organisers of the Fauj is a member of the SGPC. Either that or he knows a good few proactive SGPC members. If R4G campaign could get a dossier of all the so-called Granthis and Gianis who are taking part in the beadbi and pass it on to the APKF then they should be able to follow this up with the Akal Takht. It would be worth a try and puts added pressure on these co-called Gianis and Granthis!

Have you talked to your parents about this? If you haven't then it's best to talk to them and let them know how you are feeling. If you live in a pure white area then try and find out where the nearest school is which has a good mix or at least a good many Sikh students. It might be that the school is far but then you need to weigh up what you feel about your school situation with the hassle of travelling to a new school. I don't know what year you are in but it would be better to move to a new school soon as the new academic year has started and you want the disruption of moving over with so you can get on with working hard. But you have to talk to your parents about it first. Only you know what your situation is. Sometimes it's good to stick it out but sometimes it's best to move schools to a school you would feel comfortable in. Hope that helps! If you need any help then ask mods to give you names of some members in Brum that could give you some support.

Sangatji Keep up the emails and phone calls to all involved parties. I sent this email to Craig Robertson. Keep your emails to the point and respectful. We have already achieved a victory with Suraj getting the boot from Vectone Punjab so keep the pressure up! ------------ Dear Craig, I have been informed that the Sikh wedding that is taking place at your hotel has been involved in further controversy. It appears that the officiant (Granthi)at the wedding may have wrongly advised you that it is fine to keep the Sikh scripture (Guru Granth Sahib) overnight at your hotel. I am not sure whether you are aware but there are many ceremonies and procedures that need to be adhered to should your hotel keep the Guru Granth Sahib overnight. The room to which the Guru Granth Sahib is retired at night has to be ceremoniously cleaned and the building in which houses the room has to be free from alcohol, cigarettes and meat. Such an environment only exists in Gurdwaras (Sikh places of worship).Clearly it would be impossible for you to turn your hotel into such an environment if only for 24 hours. I think that you may have been misadvised by the Granthi Harbans Singh Suraj. Perhaps you are not aware that this controversy has been making waves in the Sikh community for the last few days now. Mr Suraj has been sacked from his job at the Vectone Punjab satellite channel because clearly his involvement in this controversy brings the channel into disrepute amongst the Sikh community. Having discussed this matter with his employer at the channel Mr Suraj's role in the controversy has come as a complete surprise to them and his whole behaviour in this matter has resulted in termination of his services. The fact that the channel acted within hours of receiving the information about Mr Suraj's involvement shows how seriously this matter and Mr Suraj's role is taken within the Sikh community as well as those providing media services to the community. I have no doubts that this wedding is causing you unwanted hassle which is taking a great deal of your time. The time spent must far outweigh the financial benefit accrued from the booking. As citizens of a multi-cultural nation we need to be aware that we do not hurt the religious sensibilities of our fellow citizens. As a business enterprise the need for respect of all members of the community is perhaps higher. I would implore you not to allow firstly the keeping of the Guru Granth Sahib on your premises overnight and secondly to use your good offices to resolve this controversy and the Guru Granth Sahib is not taken into your hotel for the wedding. I have no doubts that the campaign members would be able to offer an alternative venue usually a Gurdwara (place of worship) so that the wedding can go ahead as per the Sikh code of conduct. For the Sikh community this would the best outcome. Please do not allow a renegade priest who has no credibility in the Sikh community to bring your hotel into disrepute. I look forward to your reply. Regards, Bikramjit Singh

Mine was!! 95% Your Score Summary Overall, you scored as follows: 5% scored higher (more computer geeky), 0% scored the same, and 95% scored lower (less geeky). Compared to those in the same age group as you: 8% scored higher (more computer geeky), 0% scored the same, and 92% scored lower (less geeky). What does this mean? Your computer geekiness is: Step aside Bill Gates, Linus Torvalds, and Steve Jobs... You are by far the SUPREME COMPUTER GOD!!!

I spoke to Bikramjit Singh (yes, he's got the same name as me!) earlier and he was in total agreement that his channel did not want to be associated with someone who is going against the Akal Takht Hukumnama. I think that we should email or phone to thank them for their support email info@vectone.tv phone 0207 517 4322 press 0 after the message for reception Btw they are looking for people who are able to read and write Punjabi to work as presenters in their news sections. If anyone is interested please ring Bikramjit Singh.

It's just pure greed. The guy can't be that in need of money. The best way to stop such things is to register and just give the seller a very bad feedback. See how many Maharaj he sells after that!!

Just phone him up, some lady answered and said he's not there. I asked whether she knew if he was taking Guruji to the wedding. She said she didn't know anything about that. I get the feeling he's laying low but we still have enough time to get as many people as possible to phone him at home as well as on his show. I'm going to try and phone him on his show tonight. See if I can get though to him. I hope others will as well, if we can keep the momentum up then we can stop this beadbi in it's tracks.

Agreed, it's much better to put him on the spot on air. I've never watched his show but just checked the listings and his programme is on at 7pm UK time. I phoned up vectone punjab 0207 517 4322 and they said the programme is like a Shabad request programme @ and after he says Rehraas he take requests. I didn't mention anything about the protests because we don't want them to stop the phone calls being put through to him if they think people are going to ring and put him on the spot. If you phone in on 0909 127 7777 it's 50p a minute and you're put through to the producer who then puts you through to him. Best to ring just as he is about to finish a request. If you really want to stop him doing beadbi of Guruji then best is put him on the spot on his programme and then get maximum amount of ppl to phone and email vectonepunjab and tell them that they do not watch the programme because of this guy's anti-Gurmat activities. The channel lives off the advertising and they need maximum viewers otherwise they cannot charge good rates for advertising. They'll eventually get rid of him.

Gupt Singh Bro Check my blog out and then if you're interested PM me http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?automo...log&blogid=107&

At last a true foorie supporter!! Can we hijack this thread and turn it into a who'll win the 2006 world cup? I say the ARRRGGIIEEEEEEES!!! (That's Argentina for all the canadians)

His dharmik geets are probably the best by any Punjabi singer. The dodgy stuff let him down though. I think he also had a song 'talwar main kalgidhar di hai' That was also a good song

Mine's this one Havelock Rd Southall

Probably Akjforever is commenting because this pic will be seen by millions who don't know much about Sikhs and they will think that there's something to be suspicious about Sikhs. Nobody should feel bad about being checked by the Police, it's only for everyones safety

Good thinking Batman! Ur right that's why I placed a ? next to that line.

Here's the lyrics, it's difficult to translate it word for word because the punjabi expressions can't really be translated into english. Jabar Zulm Di Zaliman neh hadd mukai Hoi pyase khoon deh vai bhai bhai Keeti eilat farangiyan ki vartiya bhana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana The tyrants have ended all boundaries of oppression and tyranny Brothers have thirsted after the blood of their brothers The British have done their mischief and what a tragedy has come to pass Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Toon hindu tey musalman si gillah holonda?? Eko ram raheem ney, gal bah samhjhonda Eh Rastay vakron vakray par ik tikana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana You used to keep the Hindus and Muslims near you always Ram and Raheem are one you sat and explained The paths are difference but the place of rest is one Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Ethey Baba vartiyan barhiyan takdeeran Dharti ghug Punjab hoi vat ke leeran Bhanda teenda vand ke beh giya gharana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Baba, such were the great destinies that happened The land of Punjab was torn into shreds The families divided the utensils and only then rested Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Ethey bhai banh gaie ney bhaiyan dey vairi Kauday raksh jamm paie kae wali qandhari Choran ne gal pah liya saadhan da bana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Here the brother became his brothers enemy Many Kauda Raksh and Wali Qandharis took birth Thiefs have started to wear the clothes of holy men Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Pani vand lai zaliman dhari ma roi Akhi akh tak laye duniya adhmoi Sach chamkila aakh da sirya mar jaana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana Saton baba khohliya tera nankana The waters (rivers) have been divided by the tyrants and mother earth has shed tears She saw with her own eyes half the world killed Chamkila says the truth each one must in the end die Baba your Nankana has been taken from us Baba your Nankana has been taken from us

:doh: wohoooooooooooooooo i knowww, what we will do bikramjit singh, is do our own poll in this poll so forget all ur torontos and ottawas and weird boring north american sports.......foooooooooooooooooooootttttttttttttty all da way!!!! Who do you think will win the Premiership? (jst vote in the voting place but lol instead of saying 1 = toronto, 1 = chelsea instead) 1. CHELSEA? 2. LIVERPOOL? 3. MANCHESTER UNITED? 4. ARSENAL? 5. NEWCASTLE? 6. CHARLTON? (lol, i know charlton but Darren Bent is on fire at the mo ) muhahahahhahaa, that will teach these canadians. btw UNITEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD all the way... "U-N-I-T-E-D, United are the team for me with a nick nack paddy wack give the dog a bone; why don't City *badword * home" 124273[/snapback] Yeah man I don't even mind if Man U supporters join in highjacking the thread. Anything to stop ppl wasting time posting about ice hockey

Yeah and don't they wear motorcycle helmets or something? Vadday Khedari... lai haakki vi barf te khehli ja sakdi hai?

There's quite a few posters around advertising a new satellite channel and one of them shows that Kohli guy from Meet the Magoons. He's wearing a kilt but it's nice to have a Sikh face on the posters On top of that, the new conservative party political broadcast has a guy called Hardev Ranger who's a Singh and he is shown walking with the presenter talking about how the Tory party has changed and how Labour has basically taken the asian vote for granted. He's very articulate and presents himself well Only downside was that both these guys have trimmed beards, but it's still good to see turbanned faces in the present climate

Are the first lot..humko tumko stuff texts from India. They look like stuff that people in India would text each other. My friend got a text from someone in India. --- scan down five places if you want to be sweet! *then there's a lot of blank spaces as you scan down* Why did you scan down, you are already sweet! --- How sad is that man!!