AK-47

Good to hear about this attempt to create change. as paji said, its easy to say yes we want and will do stuff, but it a diff thing doing it. Again i ask, what will this new org be doing next yr to raise awareness or campaign on behalf of the raped, murdered and widowed sisters of punjab and delhi?? Is there any bibi out there who can actually tell me what they or other women (being a FANTASTICALLY powerful group in terms of politics) will be doing? the usual 'male dominated' events will take place, as well as a number of other male dominated programms, but is there anything else? We know there is a prob, so what is the solution, how can we get young mothers to start educating their children about sikhi. like it or not, most children are still raised when first born by their mothers. what strategy do u think could work?!

yeh come on everyone, lets help them do seva.... because as far as sikh women goes, that the MOST IMPORTANT thing isnt it.. theres nothing else.... sorry (or perhaps not) for sounding so sarcastic, but thats all you hear when any discussion on women and progression takes place!! is that ALL the sikh women want?!?! to be able to do seva... is that all you need or are capable of doing!?? Its quite embarassing at times, in a religious nationalism lecture recently on khalistan, when i informed the class that the struggle had slowed down so much that many people actually say that it is dead.... TWO jewish girls and one other christian girl literally verbally attacked me! they were shocked and horrified that so much had happened and that our people had just forgotten about it. They said that I (We) should put all our efforts into re-igniting the movement and try no matter what to fight for our rights.... these were WOMEN active, motivated, dedicated, upfront women. when the issue of israel was discussed, rightly or wrongly they stood up for what they believed, well if they can why cant ours? this is the point im continously trying to make!! maybe it is men's fault or someone else's but sikh women just appear to be house makers, and not world shakers. I am saying this from my own experiences, i did a talk on 1984 and the delhi riots a few weeks ago to a group of sikh college students, the guys were listening intently, the girls were gossiping. After the presentation and talk, the guys asked questions, discussed it and looked around, the girls .. didnt care! ok there are some that do care and show their concern for the quam, but i dont see the rest doing anything! (just to add concerning the last post, it isnt even about whether or not you wear a dastar, out of the girls i know the ones who wear patkeh do more than the ones with dastar's and some moneh boys and girls i know do more than many of us amritdhari's, sometimes you have to look beyond their appearance, if you wanna wear a dastar then get up and do something with it, dont just sit around at home!) if this offends any women, then so be it, but next year its the 20th anniversary of the Desecration of darbar sahib, and 20 years since the delhi massacres, if you have any anakh then do something collectively as a group of women. if every other group or quam can do it then im sure you can to. think beyond the 5 mins of seva at harimandir sahib, there is so much you could do for the panth if only you opened your eyes and looked further.

but for once rather than asking how are women driven down in sikhi, why not ask what are they doing for it? if women want to be representative's for sikhi then surely they need to participate in things. I know that personally at my university, in discussions on sikhi the girls have just as much knowledge as the guys, but then when asked to do a talk or lead a discussion they all refuse to do it. is that my fault or the fault of the other singhs, we have all done talks etc, and its just turn for one of the ladies but if they are refusing, surely the question needs to be asked.... why?? guru ji di kirpa nal those of us who have had the blessing to become sikhs, will all admit that our mothers had a big part to play in it, myself included. BUT question is what is teh diff between our mothers and those of our friends and companions who have no intrest/knowledge of sikhi? did their mothers not teach them? are our few mothers super-mums? or just weird!? :T: i know people who were the worst kind of people you could imagine b4 they took amrit and know are just wonderful gursikhs... each has a diff story about how they got inspired.. but a common thread is that their mums made them to japji sahib as kids, or made them go gurdwara (mum would keep me there all the time as a baby, and when i was able to go school at least once a day if not twice). there is a prob with youth and sikhi, im asking do we need to take a diff approach? perhaps educate the mothers on sikhi rather than try to teach youth aged 20 who have never experienced sikhi b4 in their lives? i belive if sikhi is to progress we need special gursikhs, and as guru ji said these kings, warriors and saints are to be born from women, but if their mothers dont teach them anything... then what hope is there? again i ask, how many women actually car about their sisters in punjab and delhi who were raped?honeslty iv been saying this for years, why dont women say "we want justice for our raped sisers". when a woman says that, its 100 times more effective then when a man says it!!! Jaswant Kaur from the shrg did a number of talks on 84 at uni's this yr, people left the talks crying openly, the singh sitting next to me didnt even try to hide the fact. she is one example sooo effective why dont others!?!? dont our women care about what happened? or is doing seva the only thing we care about?? what about doing seva to save lives and get justice?!?!

be careful singhs... dnt wanna say something to get yourself in trouble with big brother! there are many ways of getting ready inc spirituality and physical maintenance. we dont need to discuss this really as people will prob think somebodies planning to assisinate kps gill or that were recruiting enmass via sikh sangat!! lol but we just got to be ready for anything at all times, trouble could be here, in us, in africa or in punjab, khalsa should be ready in all terains here we need our kirpans.. maybe somewhere else we might need something a little stronger!!

Maybe, maybe not, the last thing we want to do is sit around and wait for someone else to do the work for us. We should contribute and prepare ourselves in whichever way we can to work for the panth. Can you imagine if the day to do some seva came up, and you were totally unprepared.. how you would kick yourself then! lol Ps Sant Ji would often say "those of you who dont listen to me about keeping good shastar and weapons should listen, one day when the fighting starts and you will need weapons, then you will run to me and say sant ji give us arms we need them, but then what will i be able to give you then? i dont have warehouses full of arms which to give you, then what will you do, " i take this to mean that we should as khalsa be as ready for anything as much as possible, do the best to be tyaar patyaar. another example sant ji gave was that "its a foolish man who digs a well AFTER his house has set on fire". see what you can make of that one. ps respect to them kids, more balls than we got!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Are women to blame for the state of sikhi as it is in this modern world? This is by no means meant to be an attack on women at all, just a question which arose in my mind after reading another post on women being under-represented. Have women actually carried out their roles in the panth? In the sense that, a mother is meant to have the most influence over the newborn child. A mother is suppossed to have the closest link with the baby. A mother is meant to be the educator for the child. (Not that the father has no role in this, but given the way tradition and society is it's usually the mothers role). Forgive me if im wrong, but isnt one of the roles of a mother to teach the child about sikhi and the the guru's? I cant remember now but i was told there is some gurbani or some type of religious order which says "a mother who doesnt teach her child about god is cursed"? Basically the question is, have mothers carried out this role of education and instilling of virtues in thir children? This is both in the punjab over the last few decades and here in the uk/west for children born here. We see many mothers who attend gurdwara do seva etc, but their children have no clue about sikhi, is this the fault of society or is there some lack of parchar done at home? obviously some children just dont take to sikhi, but seriously how much parchar is being done at home? People often say that women are not often seen doing parchar in the open, this is true and often we have searched for women speakers but its virtually impossible to find one. why? surely women should be the most experienced and suitable for doing parch ar having taught their children? Should fathers take up the mantle of doing parchar to their children? Should traditional society be flipped, and fathers raise the children rather than women?? Also women in most societies make the front line in any strugle that the community faces. But what is wrong with ours? In any march/demonstration why are women's organisations not there? E.g the marches that happen in June in central london for the remberance of the attack on harimandir sahib in 84, how many women do we see? look at the palestinians or the jews, their women take action and are the loudest and most passionate spokes-people for their causes... are our women asleep? Governments and people always take more women of women when they protest, much more than they do when a group of bearded men shout and march.. so why dont they? Why dont womens org's lobby the govt on behalf of our widowed mothers and raped sisters in delhi and punjab? It seems that we are able to mobilise when it comes to a problem of doing seva at harimandir sahib, but why doesnt the same mobilisation take place when it concerns real suffering of sikh women who have actually suffered and sacrificied their famlies for sikhi?? Again would like to say, im not trying to attack women, but just questioning their role and contribution in these days, other than a few examples how many women actually get involved in sikh issues? Is it the fault of men, or of society or am i just a woman hating male pig?! :T: Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

whooooooo hey hey im a fanatic!!! i swear!!! are is there any more here?!?! come on everyone who's a fanatic please stand up!!! someone tell us what a fanatic was?! is it someone who wont take any rubbish said against the guru's, gurbani, gursikhs and shaheeds? is it someone wh does their utmost to follow the code of conduct of their chosen religion? if so we should all be fanatics! which other names have the singhs on here been called by the nangs who we all love?? i been called extremist and a taksali terrorist (lol!!!!) its just like the last attempt to try and grab some self dignity, try and call us these names! when they do, best thing to do is just say "yes...and..." i think it was gill?, on another discussion who said its better to be an extremist than a moderate i agree! guru ji never said do a moderate amount of simran, he said do it nonstop 24hrs a day. he never said keep your rehat moderately, he said he wanted a strict rehat and would love that, baba deep singh wasnt a moderate, bhai mani singh wasnt a moderate, u reckon they would stand for half the cr** thats goes on which we just let pass?! sant jarnail singh ji said, that if you find a so-called gyani drinking alcohol, go up to him, pour mithi da thel (oil) on him and burn him alive! look at how much love sant ji had for the shaheeds, you think he would let these chamche talk the way they do!?(about drinking alcohol in "moderatio n" is ok) there was one singh who did just that incidently in the 1980's..... he went to one village, found this nihang who was drunk out of his head and set him on fire in the middle of the village!! also since this is a fanatic's website, i reckon you should ban all the non-fanatics, such as neo, the poor baby's getting scared, someone get him a dummy! gidar. and bik i dnt think they actually give a damn about what that llashveri writes, its just a publicity thing, "look we do care about sikhi and we are moderating neutrally, look we aint nang's etc etc". i doubt there is or was any intention of banning him. (hopefully i will be proved wrong!) fanatic wannabe signing out! Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!

We should all become terrorists and extremists. But not the way that the world see's us, but as extremists as described by sant jarnail singh ji bhindranwale below in his speech on the 13th April 1983. "Before Longwal asks you for the pledge, I have to get you to raise your arms to make you extremists. Raise your arms to become extremists only if you want to do the extremist deed's. I, your servant, have been given the title 'extremist' by the government. He who administers amrit to others having taken it himself, he who reads gurbani himself and teaches it to others, he who holds religious discourse and gets others to do the same, he who has faith in religious discourse (katha) and kirtan, he who considers Satguru Guru Granth Sahib Ji to be his Beloved and his Father, he who joins and exhorts others in protecting the honour of daughters and sisters, he who unites people under the saffron nishan sahib, he who resolutely supports the panth, and unites people with Satguru Granth Sahib Ji, the person who does such things is given the name 'extremist'. The government has said this. I am the kind of extremist I have just described to you. I appeal to you that if you are in agreement to support the protection of the honour of our sisters, to support the maintenance of reverence for our Isht, to support helping the panth and, to support the claiming of justice for the split blood of our martyrs; if you are such extremists then when i shout the jaikaara, raise your arms. But he who is a sikh of the narakdhari's, he who is the sikh of any living person or of hypocrites, he who is the sikh of the graves or cremation ground, he who is the sikh of the j aand (tree) sprinkling vermilion on it, he who is a sikh watering the pipal tree, should not raise his arm. He who is a sikh of the Satguru, who supports protection of the honours of daughters and sisters, who supports the panth, only he becomes an extremist. Remember this; I am this type here and shall stay like this. I have to get justice while I live. You should think whether you wish to become one or not. I am one. (Sant Jarnail Singh Ji shouts the jaikaara.... Boleh so nihal... a wave of arms and a roar satsri akal is replied back) " Guru ji willing one day i too will be able to call myself an extremist. B)

lol neo shut the f* up mate! B) you guys are ridiculous, you throw your rules and regulations about, and yet you abuse them freely yourselves!!! you claim freedom of speech, yet when someone speaks their mind, u ban them then cont to discuss them behind their back! from my understanding, PM ie private messages are meant to be private... so what is truthsingh doing posting up peoples private mesaages on the forum?!?! its nice acting nice and high and mighty and claim that you are just spectators, but thats a load of rubbish!! out of the 3 people you have banned from your website.. how many where 'anti-nang' and how many supported the nang/nihang mentality?! is it just a coincidence that all 3 argued against the issues raised by them fools? all three got banned, and yet the other parties involved in the arguements still stay as they were!!! lol if someone speaks against them, its slander, if they cus anyone, its intelligent discussion! shut up, pull you head out of your bum and smell the bhang which their cooking right under your nose! you talk about hate mongering?!?! let me ask you, b4 those websites were released how much hate was their amongst 'nihang' youth and the rest of uk youth?? have the webs increased it or decreased it? are you happy being called brianwashed? are you happy with shaheeds being cussed? if that isnt hate mongering then what is?! snap out of it. by the way, iv emailed you and the other mods there once b4, with no suprise you failed to reply, or even recognise acceptance of the email, which was genuinly sent to help you guys. so ill write you another one soon, this time talking direct,maybe you'll reply this time round. dnt forget to keep a tissue with you, dnt want your nose getting dirty.

there are some people that will say (im guessing this is what is on this pdf) that the militant akj (bk) and the singhs from damdami taksal didnt get along blah blah blah, but in general that again is rubbish. we all have little minor personal dislikes, eg i may not like the way you laugh or the way you walk etc. but some singhs were telling me how they spoke to a singh (i think they said it was bhai randhir singhs grandson or something like that) and how he was telling them of how much pyar there was in the early 80's amongst the taksali singhs and those from the akj. (i dnt know much about the relationship about bhai sukhdev singh and sant jarnail singh, the above post was about baba manochahal, and this is about bhai fouja singh and sant ji) he spoke about (this is also what i have heard off others) how they would jointly host a programme, where the taksali singhs would do katha first, followed by kirtan from the akj. about how they would do seva side by side, about how much love shaheed bahi fuja singh ji and sant jarnail singh ji had for each other. it wasnt just the akj and the taksal singh's either, from another singh i found out that in most pictures that we seeof sant jarnail singh ji walking about, the singhs with him are mostly NOT from taksal. but mostly just singhs who left their homes to come and live with the singhs and to participate in the morcha and help sant ji. also the nihang singhs from the hariawela dal under baba nihal singh ji were with these singhs. this for me is what a united khalsa panth should be like. there were other nihang singhs who left their dal's because they were doing nothing and came and joined the singhs individually. anyway the ma in story this guy told was that of sant jarnail singh ji and bhai fouja singh ji's wife. (sorry cant remember her name!!). basically on the day that bhai fauja singh and the others gave shaheedi, sant ji inspired the sangat to do something about this atrocity that was occuring (nirankari/narakdhari march ). after his speech a number of singhs got ready to march and stop this procession from continuing. this included bhai fauja singh, singhs from the akj, the taksal and other groups. we all know that they went and gave shaheedi and respect them for this. again of the 13 singhs they included singhs from both the taksal and the akj (bk). however after this event we hear that (apparently) bhai fouja singh's wife was insulting sant jarnail singh and accussing him of being a coward and asking why didnt he go and give his life? and that this was meant to be why the bk and taksal were meant to have had a divide of sorts after this. however according to this singh (cant remember his name can ask if u wish) this wasnt the truth. he said that the singhs who went with bhai fouja singh ji and those that came back still had full pyaar in sant ji. he was saying that it was bhai fouja singh who told sant ji to carry on with the parchar and that this seva should be left to him (fouja singh) to handle. singh said that there is/was no reason for any confrontation between the two groups, but that the bibi's grief led her to believe these things. and some people having greater affection for her, took these things as the truth. however any discourse with singhs from that period will negate this. but again we as the stupid youth, look for any reason to slam another group or groups and try and make our own shine. the gursikhs who we admire and whose pics we have in our rooms did not have time for the petty squabbles that we get involved in. they had a bigger mission. the freedom of the quam! im sure issues such as keski, raagmala etc etc existed then as well to some degree, but these c an sometimes be put aside for another day, im guessing their theory was that they day we sit in freedom, when our sisters are not raped, our brother are not killed and our gurdwara and guru is not burned and humiliated. that day we can sit down and discuss these problems/issues, but for today lets stand together and vanquish those who seek to destroy us. as singhs in a recent leicester programme kept repeating, "we all have more in common, than we differences" its up to you, divide and kill each other or unite and become invincible. lets pray maharajh blesses us with the chance to lay down our lives for this sikhi which lives on the blood of its martyrs.

vaheguru, very good! heres a funny story for you guys on some of the disgusting backward parchar going on out there! a group of young sikhs were sitting in a langar hall chatting when one of them swore, he was told off by a singhni who said you shouldnt swear. but then... one <banned word filter activated> who fancies himself as a member of a group of other idiots (no names mentioned see if u can guess..) started his 'vichar' he said that there is nothing wrong in swearing, and that swearing shows a mans robh (power) and that if and when a guy swears people fear him, and get intimidated. thus nihang singhs need to swear to keep up their image as warriors as mean fierce people. that singhs used to swear all the time and still do in the dals. that jakareh of old contained swears upon swears towards the enemy. inc swearing at mothers and sisters and even racist comments! in fact..... (shock horror) even the gurus swore!! yes sangat ji, apparently guru gobind singh ji used to swear as well when he went to battle. he used the fact that guru ji says 'haramkor' in japji sahib as evidence that the gurus had no problem with swearing! in fact aparently swearing is an artform! the main story he told goes as follows.... a singh wanted to come and see guru gobind singh ji, but the guards didnt let him in for some reason, at which he started to swear at them, but they still never let him in, so he barged in and carried on swearing and swore in gurus presence and in fact swore whilst adressing the guru. the sangat was shocked and people tried to restrain him. but (apparently) guru ji got off his throne walked towards him, put his arms around him hugged him and sa id this is a real singh of mine and he has love in his heart...... :T: now me personally im not sure if i believe this... and i would like to believe that had i been there, id have shown him that singhs dnt need to swear to be intimidating, just a good old right hook does the trick! but please can this be true?! can u believe people are spreading suff like this!? yes we all swear at times, but we must control it, not make it into an artform!

Please note; Bhai Gurbachan Singh Ji Manochahal Jathedhar of the Bhindranwale Tiger Force of Khalistan, has openly declared his full faith in Bhai Sukhdev Singh Ji <admin-please stop! its a security issue>. So any people who may at some stage start saying that these gursikhs were at each others throats all the time at chatting <admin-profanity filter activated>. I have heard people from diff khalistani jathe attacking each other which is beyond stupid. Manochahal praises sukhdev singh as a gursikh and as someone who had guru's light inside him. he calls hima brave warrior and a strict rehat keeping sikh. in regards to this stupid claim of illegite kids, baba manochahal said sukhdev singh was married and any children were his. i think he said the woman in question (dnt know where the nabeh waliya bibian came from !!) was in fact married to him, and the child was theirs. he also said anybody questioning the honour and dignity of sucha great man would be dealt with severely and that the khalsa wouldbe forced to shut their slandering mouths. he said that full justice would be delivered in this respect. (this is from an audio tape of a speech given by baba manochahal explaining why the kharkoo singhs have needed to take up arms and also the present situation of the moveent) the pyaar between these real gursikhs who were and DID give their haeds for sikhi should be an inspiration to us idiots. never mind giving our heads for the cause, we seem more ready to remove each others over small arguments!