kamc

Sikhs have been in Canada for a fair while, well over 100 year's, post 1984 was a spike for emigration your right, the difference with Canadian Sikhs isn't really about sticking together though, it's that they understand that things like politics are valid career options and it's a way to make a difference, they are a lot more progressive than Sikh's in the UK, if you look at people like Jagmeet Singh in Toronto he's made huge strides in the political arena, his brother is now following in his footsteps, there are plenty of other Sikh's and Punjabi's in the political arena in Canada (i'm sure those on this forum from Canada can expand). In the UK Sikhs decided that is was more important to focus on the so call Sikh Manifesto in the hope that if MPs supported that they would be on their side instead of actually nurturing the younger generation and pushing them into politics, we had a few ex-committee member embarrassing themselves by standing for UKIP and the usual ragtag bunch of wannabe's for the other parties, no one you could take seriously, it may be prudent to start pushing our youngsters towards politics if we want to see real change instead of producing a document of demands and labelling it a Manifesto.

Just seen Jagraj Singh's video on their facebook page, if ever there was an example of humility in practice then this guy is it, he's basically taken all the blame and asked for forgiveness because he doesn't want their katha for the sangat to stop, the committee members at SGSS should hang their heads in shame.

Bhai Harbans Singh Ji (Jagadhri Wale) - Rakkhi Charna De Kol Gives the title in the description fella.

I did see the TPV statement then their apology and did wonder what on earth was going on, it's pretty irresponsible posting stuff up on social media but this story has been reported in a few Punjabi newspapers as well since then so i think it would have been prudent for the management committee to issue a statement asap but unfortunately we Punjabi's aren't the brightest bulbs in the pack when it come's to PR. but like i've said, it's a sorry state of affairs and it's just getting worse.

Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs, between this and all the stuff going on at Sedgley Street Gurdwara in Wolverhampton I'm not surprised that the younger generation are turning their back's on Sikhi, we look to the older generation to guide us but all they're interested in is who's sitting on the committee and has access to the golak, sad state of affairs.

What's more embarrassing for people like him is that it took a non Asian MP (Tom Watson) to bring it to the forefront and even then Uppal was less than enthusiastic about doing anything about it.

As far as I'm aware, as of this morning, we have no Sikh mp's left in parliament, first time since 1992, so much for progress (but i'll stand corrected if i'm wrong).

The main reason Cameron didn't apologise for Jallianwala is because if he did then they would accept responsibility and open themselves up to every lawsuit know to man, the British government would be liable for damage's to the descendants of the victims, him going there was purely a PR stunt, nothing more, if anyone was expecting anything more thing they are gravely mistaken. In reference to Vaz and Sharma, i can't really comment on Sharma but I've met Vaz on numerous occasions and he is, to put it politely, the biggest snake you'll ever meet, he's manoeuvred himself into a position of power using dirty politics and games, he get's the local vote because the majority in Leicester are Gujarati and so if he (barely), he scratches their back and they vote for him, simple as.

Excellent stuff, i actually bought his books a few years ago, well worth reading if you can track them down.

I don't want to intrude too much but you mentioned your family are Christian, are they practising (go to church every Sunday etc.) and if so, what denomination (Protestant, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox etc.), the reason i ask is that this can make a difference to how they perceive other religions and how they feel if one of their children want to go to another faith. As far as your hair goes, it's not the end of the world if you don't keep your kesh just yet, Sikhism is a journey (as are most religions) and you can't force anyone to accept that journey, give it time, as you get older your parents will hopefully realise that this isn't just a phase your going through, if you have any support networks at your school it may be worth talking to them, I've no idea what part of the US your from but if you have any Sikh's in your area it may be worth talking to them, maybe go to a Gurdwara when you get a chance. I'm a parent myself and can understand your parent's feelings, they maybe afraid or just don't want to know, they have a routine in their lives and any break from that is something they may not be able to cope with, the more religious they are the more difficult it may be for them to accept, but like i've already said, your on a journey, as long as you come out of it a better person no one can take that away from you.

I do see your point but these groups can only do so much, having spoken to Ravi (Khalsa Aid) a few times about things like this and he has a simple answer, we go where there is need, they have an ongoing program in India but as Sikhs it's our responsibility to help all those in need to the best of our abilities, they prove that time and time again, my question would be to the charities specifically set up to help those in India, more specifically in the Punjab, i see charity drives all the time on the Sikh channels, where's the money going, one of them did a big thing to help Sikligar Sikh's, they managed to raise a fair amount but no ones heard anything since, if they kept updated the donating public as to what was happening maybe people would be less inclined to think the money's going somewhere else. Some of the video's i've seen of the widows from 84 are truly heartbreaking, you do what you can, it's a prime example of where a country has failed it's people so supporting causes like that is a long term thing and group's like Khalsa Aid are doing it but when there are humanitarian disasters (i.e.Nepal) then their focus shifts to that.

Oh, you didn't offend me, i said i take exception when someone i don't know think's they can judge me, I'd hardly call what you wrote judgemental.

With respect, you talk about having discipline and in the same sentence are calling me pathetic, grow up son, in a debate, people have different opinions, and as far as being in the club of "Sikhs who wanna embrace everything western because it's trendy", sorry, far too old for that trendy stuff. As far as Sikh interests at heart, what exactly do you want, we can't even look after our own and yet we're making demands from political parties, who, by the way, will make any old promises to get your vote. If you have such a issue with democracy maybe you should move to India and see how that goes or better still, try China, they don't like democracy over there so you may fit in. I don't generally get offended by stuff people write online, but I make an exception when someone i don't know think's they can judge me, there's only one who can do that.

You forget that Sikhism is one of the most progressive and adaptive religion's in the world, we fit in wherever we go, saying Sikhs shouldn't vote and don't do democracy is complete and absolute nonsense, Sikhism promotes democracy and the belief that the welfare of people is best secured by their elected representatives, the Panj Pyare system is, in theory, democracy in action, they are elected by the community, they can only go forward with a decision if all 5 agree.

So, countless hours or even day's on various Sikh tv channels spent discussing the issue, even a discussion on the BBC about it and all they really had to do was "communicate" with Unesco to find out the truth, maybe one day we'll realise that the old saying "don't believe everything you read" is there for a reason.

Unless of course your giving out a free siropa.

So what do we win and where do we go to pick up our prize.

Don't be silly , why contact the Gurdwara when we have the internet to jump to conclusions, also, on a side note, where did that picture of the card come from, is there some special website where these things are shared.

No i didn't unfortunately, i stopped listening to Nihal's show a few years back when i found they are basically an asian radio version of the Daily Mail, as far as the discussion on this topic, i'm sure it filled the hour with the usual nonsense.

There's a discussion about it on the BBC Asian Network (UK) this morning at 10am.

Yeah, umm, no, that's like calling David Cameron the second coming of Christ, really, your comparing TR to Churchill, one dude led a country out of war and rebuilt it(Churchill) and the other's a racist bigot who, admittedly started off on the right foot but the moment his organisation spiralled out of control ran away like a baby leaving his EDL to splinter off into more extreme right wing groups, just what we need, as if we haven't got enough problems with racism as it is. You see, the unfortunate truth is the Pakistani community are their own worse enemy, instead of standing up when cases of grooming and abuse occur and saying we won't stand for this stuff they run away in denial, the media has it's part to play as well, if 10 men are arrested they will focus on those from a Pakistani community, truth be told, if they do have a problem with their men then they really need to man up and sort it out otherwise tensions are going to keep on rising and innocent people are going to start getting hurt because of the fact that they are from a certain community.

As much as I don't want to de-rail this thread having grown up around the activities of the Shere Punjab i get the feeling you hold their activities in high regard, i can only speak for their activities in Birmingham, suffice to say, they caused more damage than good and left the community to clean up their mess because they had no regard for the consequences of their actions, the very sisters they were saving were the very one's they were harassing the next day, like i've already mentioned, that's my opinion and the opinion of plenty of other's, i'm sure there are plenty who, as garch has said, have a romanticised image of them and hold them in high regard.

Wherever in the world you are, i'm sure you've got your fair share of right wing nutter's like us and i class Robinson as one of them. There's were a few incidents where i live when the EDL marched through town as well as in Birmingham, Robinson may well be able to tell the difference between religions but those that followed him just saw colour and hence lies the problem, he failed miserably as a leader of an organisation whose main agenda was basically anti-Islam and then turned up after quitting the EDL with an organisation that no Muslim listen's to and are widely regarded by the Muslim community as anti-Islamic as well, way to go fella, out of the frying pan and into the fire so to speak. As far as his views on grooming, yes, they are justified but instead of constantly going after the communities the perpetrators are from they would have been better served going after those in power that allow this crime to go unnoticed, Rochdale is a great example of this, the amount of covering up going on there is unbelievable and it's still happening, absolutely bonkers. As a Sikh your responsibility isn't just towards Sikh girls/women, it's towards all girls/women. Yeah, having grown up around the time when they were prevalent in the 80's and 90's i don't hold them up in high regard (but that's my opinion).

I'd suggest looking at his history before even saying "he seems like a good man", he lost control over the EDL and allowed extreme right wing factions into it and did nothing about it while saying that he was only against extremest "Islamics", he claimed he had nothing against Sikhs but on more than one rally they have clashed with Sikhs and he has made no attempt to apologize, he and everything he stands for goes against everything that Sikhi stands for and before anyone say's anything different, i've had first hand experience of being chased by his goons for doing nothing more than walking in the city centre while they were having a rally, just because the dude is now wearing a suit doesn't mean you should trust him.

It's not that simple, you don't just sign a piece of paper and say "here you go buddy, put this place on the list", it's a long winded process which takes a while, the "site" is put forward by the countries government, i very seriously doubt the Indian government put forward Harmandir Sahib with even consulting organisations like the SGCP, that would just be downright idiotic and would draw worldwide criticism least of all from Unesco, anyway, it's worth reading about how it all works (i've put some links below) before we all do the one thing all of us excel at which is "jumping the gun" so regardless of whether you agree or disagree the least you should do is read about what it's all about and how the process works. http://whc.unesco.org/en/faq/ http://whc.unesco.org/en/criteria/ http://www.unesco.org.uk/becoming_a_world_heritage_site