hawk13

You are talking about endorsing murder. Do you know Paran Singh Ji, when will you leave the Pran and depart from this world. Btw, saints never claimed to be gurus, it is western media who have skewed everything through their lack of knoeledge. Guru Granth Sahib is guru to sikhs but for us the supreme guru is Guru Ravidass. Then why u take GURU GRANTH SHAIAB if u cannot show proper respect. Only selected verses of great bhagats which r related to ALMIGHTY is included in holy granth shiab, secondly phhyical form of GURU THE GURU PANTH in form OF PANJ PYRAS accompanies guru granth if any disrespect is shown to GURU GRANTH the GURU PANTH will be angry, it was sikh gurus only who gave respectable place to bhagats and low castes. But ur real enemy r not sikhs but the manuwadis who have used disgraceful words like sudra, chura ,chamar. not the gursikhs if a sikh discrminates on caste basis then he ceases to be a sikh. Ur leaders r playing into the hands of ur worst enemy the rss,bjp as they exploited tribals in gujarat, orissa againist muslims and chirstains. Even 1984 riots most of the rioters were from thelow caste settlements still sikhs forgave lowcastes knowing real culprits r manuwadi brahmanwadi thinking other wise sikh fighters were capable of inflicting hugh losses .furthermore it is bjp game to creat riots between sikhs and dalits in whicj they r succeeding by using dalits to show disrespect to holy granth and burning posters of martys posters u seem to ignore the fact during bhindrawale times it was their gurdwaras which used to give shelter and langar to poor people not the ur socalled bjp men who gave u humilating treatment. IF RIOTS AGAIN ERUPTS IN PUNJAP THE SIKHS WILL GIVE THE RIOTERS MOST SUITABLE TREATMENT.

A big issue is coming up of copy of durbar shaib in sangrur. But in vellore in karnatka temple with same desigh is being built in it was in news in 2005 apart from it samples of plants of dukhbhanji ber and other places were taken and sent to reasearch labourities it was found that it had healing powers this was done by hindu scientists in 2004 as per hindustan times reports although i do not have such old reports. Even samples of water of the sarovar was taken sent for reasearch with the knowldge of SGPC these thieves were given siropas and sri shaib by the SGPC. It is bad on part of mastuana committee to do such a thing the sikhs should resolve this issuse with consultations but sikhs shold take strong action if any nonsikh more beadbi. Apart from these in 2003-6 shivala bhiya temple in amritsar got same design which had reputation of antisikh activities and badal family donated gold forit. In another temple in jalandhar same design is being copied. Question is should sikhs demolish these strutures and punish badal and co for encouraging it.

Welcome and congrats dear brother wishing u most happy future life.

You are incorrect. No religion is fundamentalist. People are fundamentalist. A Sikh who tells others to avoid products with the word 'alcohol' is being fundamentalist. Discipline and fundamentalism are two completely different things. Discipline is following a set of rules (whether set by others or by oneself). This turns into fundamentalism when one fails to understand not the rules but why they are set. Saying 'alcohol' is bad without knowing why is fundamentalism. Knowing that drinking alcohol in the form of ethanol-containing beverages because it leads to an imbalance in the state of mind, and therefore abstaining is discipline. Shouting in this situation resolves nothing. All you do is make it more difficult to understand your message. This is something you should try to avoid as it can lead to misunderstanding.Fundamentlists r those who force other people to follow their line they all means even nonreligious people can do it as happened in China in 1969-72 period the socalled cultral revolution when red guard raised by Mao clashed with local people leading to 6 million deaths later army removed mao. Another example is of soviet union where stalin was was resonsible for 70 million deaths when kgb removed him only india gave shelter to his family in mubai still living. The excesses of taliban r nothing as compared to excesses commited by fanatic lleftists. After grand son of GREAT ASOKA WAS killed by hindu general and himself became king he got killed 80 lac buddhists and destroyed their religious places. But we know nothing of this kind during sikh rule period even during medival times. So sikh can never be fundamentlist. In essence, I would state that fundamentalism is following the rules without interpretation or correct use of the rules.

gatka is real yudh vidiya, and shastar vidiya is a khel In sikh matial art not only ancient hindu martial art ,turkish, mogolish tactics were included but GURU GOBIND SINGH JI included his own tactics and made it most formidable.Greeks were known by their good cavalry while muslim with better tulwars and better archery overcame far superior hindu and rajput armies in battle of somnath1026, battle of tarain in1192 ,battle of talikota 1565, babar and rana sangha battle 1528. If hindus had better fighting styles muslim invaders could have been defaeted. It is true nintsu had 70% similarties with sikh martial art. another good martial art is shoto kan karate most simple but deadly one

wow. and people said ignorance is bliss. obviously not in your case. now i'll wait for your blood pressure to drop or for you to go to the toilet as its obvious something is wrong. firstly, there is a difference between a fanatic and a fundamentalist. fanatics tend to know what they're on about, thats why they stick to their guns. fundamentalists tend to be stupid and have no real sense of reasoning, and also follow a bizarre logic that is very basic yet illogical to anyone with an ounce of sense. secondly, you accuse me of jumping to conclusions. i gave clear examples and reasoning in my previous posts. i'm sure my explanation isnt always perfect and sometimes i dont get my point across. but its better than just shouting stuff because its what you believe. any proof that i jumped to conclusions? i also discredited this author at the top of the page. you see i have read some of his autobiography/novel and so know something about how he thinks. you on the other hand scream the first thing that comes into your head. now thats the difference between fanaticism and fundamentalism. thirdly, what does this have to do with langar? i'm beginning to see the eratic nature of fundamentalism in your lots reasoning. as i said before, look around you, see what fundamentalism does to others. also, you mention the rehat maryada. but arent there different maryada followed by different groups? who's right? who's wrong? what if someone grows up not following any rehat maryada but then chooses one? or those who go the other way? or those who follow bits and pieces? do you see what i mean? fundamentalism looks at religion in a simplistic way and then tries to force reality to conform to that simple view. but the real world is not like that. if you think it is, your going to be in for a rude shock. It is ur need to to know better about sikhi IAM NOT SHOUTING BUT PUTTING ACROSS MESSAGE OF UR SMALL KNOWLDGE THERE IS NO DIFFERENT REHAT MARYADA THERE IS ONE REHAT MARYADA BASED UPON THE REHATNAMAS AND DIRECTIONS GIVEN BY GURUS DO U KNOW THE THE MEANING OF REHATNAMAS THE ANSWER IS NO FIRST GO THRUGH THE RECORD MIND IT NO PERSONAL COMMENTS AND IT IS U WHO WILL NEED TO GO TO TOILET FREQUENTLY.The langar tradition u nothing about it is not just food it is symbol of equality it . Bhai PARLAD SINGH JI REHAT NAMA ,BHAI CHUPA SINGH REHATNAMA SAYS WITHOUT REHAT ONE CANNOT BE SIKH GURU JI BACCHAN REHAT PYARI MUGH KO SIKH PYARA NAHIN. u R LIKE A ARYA SAMAJI OR LEFTIST FANATIC sikhs can never be intolerant. Different groups follow their selfmade MARYADA NOT THE REAL REHAT MARYADA CONTAINED IN REHAT NAMA U HAVE NO KNOWLDGE THAT RECENTLY PUNJAB AND HIGH COURT HAS GIVEN LEGAL STATUS TO REHAT MARYADA R THE JUDGES FUNDAMENTLISTS.? EVEN KIRPAN BILL IS RECOGINITION OF REHAT MARYADA GO READ REHATNAMAS DO NO FOOL AROUND UR SELF THEN WRITE POSTS

tHIS IS NOT PROBLEM WITH SIKHI BUT WITH PERSONS WITH SMALL KNOWLDGE REHAT MARYADA IS NOT RITUAL IT IS DISCPLINE IF U R NOT FOLLOWING IT U R OUT OF IT, MILLIONS OF NON SIKHS TAKE LANGAR IN GURDWARAS IF BECAUSE OF THIS REHAT MARYADA IF WE HAVE TO BECOME FANATICS WE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT. LERAN MORE ABOUT SIKHI BEFORE JUMPING TO ANY CONCLUSIONS JUST LIKE THAT EGOSTIC AUTHOR OF THAT ARTICLE. WHEN SOME COMMUNISTS WERE CRTICING SIKHI A SPESKER JUST TOLD THEM TO FEED JUST 50 PEOPLE IN THEIR OFFICE FROM THEIR PARTY FUND DAILY THEN CRTICISE SIKHI AND SIKHISM . THEY JUST VANISHED

First sikhs cannot be fundamentlist how can u call someone fundamentalist without knowing the facts about sikhi that writer have big ego problem and thinks higher of Guru ji .can a religion which believes in SARBAT DA BHALLA AND HAD 4 DOORS OPEN FOR ALL CASTES AND RELIGION BE A FUNDAMENTALIST? Fact remains in punjab gurdwaras only 10 lac people feed on LANGAR daily. We sikhs just have to follow DISPLINE LIKE ARMY should we be callled fanatics most of the people who takes langar r non sikhs, Writer of the article is like the persons mentined by GURU JI KOOR RAJA KOOR PRAJA the GURU ji describes such people who for conviance and personal benefits does behave like the ruling class or majourity people we have rajputs offerring their women to mughals for petty gains author belongs to that category. The author misinterprets thT SIKHS WORSHIOPS LIVING GURU ACCORGING TO CHAUPA SINGH JI REHAT BINA NA SIKH KAHAYE . SO AUTHOR SHOULD LEARN SIKHI THEN WRITE SOMETHING HE SHOULD NOT MAKE FOOL OF HIMSELF,

It is greatest sin to believe in casteism when our gurus banned casteism. During the wedding of Guru Nanak Dev ji people from all castes and creeds joined in barat much to the annoyance of pandits. Although all Gurus belonged to khatri not the trading but the warrior one castes they abolished casteism and according to histroic accounts jat sikh of punjab r different from jats of haryana ,up and rajastan. Jats of punjabs were most untouchables themselves.Near durbar shaib Guru Arjun dev ji settled shoemakers( i will not use word chamar which is disgreaceful). Ranreta baba jiwan singh ji also belonged to backward class.The low castes should join and should believe in guru panth and guru granth.

A shotgun costs just 12000-17000 in punjab and ordance hand gun 76000 only. old second hand weapons imported ones r expensive one must buy new ones. I f bhiayas can buy despite being poor why sikhs should be fussy. A big bore rifle costs 47000 . not so expensive

Under the indian constitution article25 -30 allows minority institution to keep the minority quota it applies to all minority institution be it chritain or muslims not only to sikhs one can get 50% seats in general quota and other half in minority quota under the law even management not even the courts can intervene and convert it into general quota after gurlleen kaur was found plucking eyebrows during medical examination she was denied admission but she promised not to do in future but management gave admmission to other student. she could have got admmission in general quota but she insisted on sikh quota. AFFIDAVIT DRAFTED BY MATTEWAL ON BEHALF OF SGPC CARRYING DISGRACE FUL COMMENTS ABOUT 9 GURUS NOT BEING KESHADHARIS CREATED THE WHOLE ISSUE SGPC DID NOT WITHDRAW THE AFFIDAVIT BUT AMENDED IT THIS WAS DONE UNDER BJP RSS INFLUNECE THUS COURT DECLARED THAT ANY ONE CAN FROM GENERAL PUBLIC CAN GIVE VIEWS IT WAS LAST SUBMISSION BY ATINDERPAL SINGH KHALSTANI WHICH TURNED THE TABLES THE SOCALLED SEHAJDHARI FEDERATION AND SGPC AND DGMC PEOPLE STARTED COMMENTS KHALSTANI JUMPS EVERYWHERE IT WAS THUNDEROUS FATEH BY ATINDER PAL SINH TO JUDGER WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA WAHE GURU JI KI FATEH IAMM ATINDERPAL SINGH KHALASTANI INTRODUCES LIKE THIS. EVEN COTRIBUTION OF HIS LAWYER WAS NOT LESS SAME AS HE MADE SHORT SUMMARY. FURTHER THIS JUDGEMENT APPLIES TO SIKH INSTITUTIONS. FURTHER COMMENTS OF JUDGE J S KHER PROUD TO BE BORN IN SIKH FAMILY IN WRTTEN JUDGEMENT IS BOLD STEP.

no r immaterial sikhi is religion of conviction not convince see the SAKHI REHAT KI AND GURSHOBHA EVEN INTERACTING WITH SIRGUMS MAKES U TANKHIIAS THOSE ACCORDING TO BHAI NAND LAL JI DICTATED TO HIM BY DASMESH PITA JI THOSE WHO TRIMS OR CUTTS THE HAIR IS LIKE HAVING PHSYSICA; RELATIONS WITH THEIR DAUGHTERS NOTHING CAN BE EXTREME INJUCTIONS LIKE THIS PATIT WORD IS LESS HARSH GURU NANAK DEV JI AND GURU GOBIND SINGH USED WORDS SIRGUM MEANS HEADLESS PERSON.

sister keeping kesh is first condition of sikhi see the full judgement in page 4 of this topic I have posted

SEE THE JUDGEMENT THEN MAKE COMMENT FIRSTLY THERE WAS NOT THE VIEW OF SGPC IS WAS SOLELY THE SHOW OF ATINDER PAL SINGH KHALSTANI HE GAVE SAME NAME IN COURT. AFTER HIS SUMMISIIONS COURT RESERVED THE RULING U SEE THE JUDGEMENT IN THIS THREAD I POSTED MANY DOWNLOADS THEN MAKE COMMENTS ATINDER PAL SINGH KHALSTANI WAS ASSISTED BY ADVOCATE BRIJINDER SINGH LOOMBA. PLESE WATCH THE JUDGEMENT IN PAGE 4 BEFORE MAKING UNWANTED COMMENTS OF UR SELF. SEE THE JUDGEMENT THEN MAKE COMMENT FIRSTLY THERE WAS NOT THE VIEW OF SGPC IS WAS SOLELY THE SHOW OF ATINDER PAL SINGH KHALSTANI HE GAVE SAME NAME IN COURT. AFTER HIS SUMMISIIONS COURT RESERVED THE RULING U SEE THE JUDGEMENT IN THIS THREAD I POSTED MANY DOWNLOADS THEN MAKE COMMENTS ATINDER PAL SINGH KHALSTANI WAS ASSISTED BY ADVOCATE BRIJINDER SINGH LOOMBA. PLESE WATCH THE JUDGEMENT IN PAGE 4 BEFORE MAKING UNWANTED COMMENTS OF UR SELF. sORRY FOR THE LAST LINE DUE TO HURRY i DID NOT SEE UR POST FULLY PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONALY AS IAM LITLE UNWELL I COULD NOT READ UR POST PROPERLY.

Please see the judgement then comment I have posted full judgement on page 4 of this general topic .I will POST FULL PROCEEDINGS OF THE COURT SOON AS IAM UNWELL THERE IS NO MENTION OF AMRIT DHARI SIKH BUT IN REHAT MARYADA THERE IS ONLY SIKH NOT SEHAJDHARI .

I have posted the orginal order downloaded from hc website in general topic category and given brief proceedinds plus will soon post all the proceedings these were watched by my friend sgpc and dgmc both played negative role any members can see the154 page order ,I have spent 6 hours while downloading just for knowldlge of my dear all members of this forum . I hope all members will avail it. GUR FATEH AND CONGRATS TO ALL SINGHS

sorry due to net problem i am not able to send the attachment . I humbly request the admin and moderator to delete the attachment if it is not case file.as it is difficult to search the court website

showfile.pdfshowfile.pdfshowfile.pdfshowfile.pdfshowfile.pdf showfile.pdfOn 30/5/2009 full bench of punjab and haryana high high court has ruled that unshorn hair is integral part of sikh religion in 154 page judgement , I wiill try to send it. After the submissions by Atinderpal singh khalstani on sikh religion and arorund 300 submissions by him on 23 march turned the table in favor of sikhs and he became the first leader use khalstan in his name in front of full bench and argued in gurmuki and got respect from judges.he was assisted by brijinder singh advocate.

It was repoted in HINDUSTAN TIMES CHANDIGARH EDITION DATED 28-5-2009

Yeh man, lets do that. That way we can show the world just what sort of bewakoofs we are! That will teach them. Bwaaaaahhhh!!! You've got mental health problems mate. It is the members of mob who had mental problems should we take beatings r the sikhs for getting bashedup by hooligans ? before making personal comments have u faced the mob pattern was the same as in1984 .IT IS NOT ME IT IS U WHO MAY BE MENTAL PROBLEMS IN SUCH SITUATIONS U HAD TO KILL OR GETS URSELF KIILED GO AND TELL THESE PEOPLE TO ACT REASONABLY SEE THEIR REACTIONS BE PRACTICAL U HAD TO TEACH THEM LESSONS FOR RIOTING EVEN 90% HINDUS HAVE TURNED AGAINIST THESE HOOLIGANS. FACE THE ANTISIKH MOB THEN POST HERE.

According to hindustan times a mob armed with guns,swords and other weapons went to village of Satwinder Singh one of the suspected killer village and asked about house the leaders of mob said the villagers they wanted to kill the family of satwinder singh as a revenge according to ht news but village elders engaged the leaders of mob and called the police some people were rounded up. The family members of satwinder singh although his identitiy is doubful has gone underground. Sikh rehat has prevented the sikhs from taking the extreme step other wise these people deserved the treatment given to them by THAKURS AND RAJPUTS IN UP. Should we have to take same step if they did not come to their senses by burning their houses or making taking away their youths as slaves mind it thakurs constitues just 12% of up population. Or does some sher singh rana people to come up to avenge the humilation to sikhswho killed phoolan devi and asserted it is the right of thakurs to exploit the women of dalits.It is sikhi which is saving these supporters of dera.

According to hindustan times a mob armed with guns,swords and other weapons went to village of Satwinder Singh one of the suspected killer village and asked about house the leaders of mob said the villagers they wanted to kill the family of satwinder singh as a revenge according to ht news but village elders engaged the leaders of mob and called the police some people were rounded up. The family members of satwinder singh although his identitiy is doubful has gone underground. Sikh rehat has prevented the sikhs from taking the extreme step other wise these people deserved the treatment given to them by THAKURS AND RAJPUTS IN UP. Should we have to take same step if they did not come to their senses by burning their houses or making taking away their youths as slaves mind it thakurs constitues just 12% of up population. Or does some sher singh rana people to come up to avenge the humilation to sikhswho killed phoolan devi and asserted it is the right of thakurs to exploit the women of dalits.It is sikhi which is saving these supporters of dera.

It is sad to see some people using slave and communal terms like chamar forthemselves these r terms given to them by pandas not the sikhs rather Guru Arjun Dev ji created a colony of shoemakers I will not use term chamar near durbar shaib who have shops still today none of them had joined the protests. GURDWARA MOVEMENT STARTED AS SOME LOW CASTE SIKHS AFTER TAKING AMRIT WANTED TO PAY RESPECT AT DURBAR SHAIB BUT MAHANTS BELONGING TO UDASI SECT REFUSED TO LET THEM IN IT WAS THE REAL SINGHS WHO BROUGHT THEM TO DURBAR SHAIB. UDASI MAHANTS USED TO BAN LOW CASTES IN GURDWARA IT WAS UPTO 1925 WHEN MAHANTS WERE UPROOTED THEY HELD A CONVENTION THEY PROMISED TO TAKE BACK GURDWARAS BACK EVEN IT MAY TAKE A CENTURY NOW MOST OF DEREDARS R FROM THE SAME BACKGROUND AND RELIGIOUS PRACTICES RESEMBLES OF MAHANT RITUALS. REHAT MARYADA IS CONCLUSION OF VARIOUS REHAT NAMAS I WILL POST THE REAL REHAT NAMAS SOON.SO DERA RUN EITHER BY BY NON SIKH PERSON OR ASOCALLED SIKH SAINTS RARELY CELEBRATE GURPURBS BUT CELEBRATE FAKE SANTS BITHDAY WITH NAGARKIRTANS NOW AND DO THE KATHA OF MAHABHARAT AND RAMAYAN NOT OF GURMATT. SO DERA CULTURE IS LIKE GANGRENE TO SIKH PANTH. EVEN FAKE SCHLORS R WORST.

Another anti sikh body and perhaps most dangerous is BHARAT VIKAS PARISHAD social action group of RSS their braches are in allover punjab and rural areas their cadre r retired civil and police officers plus senior retired judges they made their image by doing social work by distributing essentials gets patronage from administartion. some of their members r in fact devoted sikh officials who for the sake of social work have joined themtheir megazines protrayed DASAM PITA AS HINDU AND IS MISLEADING.

SO YOUR SAYING YES THEY DO BELEIVE LIVING SATGURU'S? YES THEY HAVE SUBSITUTED THE KIRPAN (REAL SHASHTAR) FOR A MICKEY MOUSE KANGA WITH A TINY KIRPAN PRINTED ON IT? I AGREE THE BABBAR AKALI MOVEMENT AGAINST THE BRITISH WAS LEAD BY THE NAMDHARIS, AND YES THEY GAVE MANY SHAHEEDIYAN, AND WENT TO KAAL PAANI AGAINST THE BRITISH. BUT THE TOPIC IS HERE ABOUT THE WRONG PARCHAR. I FOR ONE WOULD BE WEARY OF ANY OF MY BROTHERS OR SISTERS GOING TO THESE PEOPLE. YES THEY DO READ GURBANI BUT THE CONCEPT OF KHANDE BAATE THE AMRIT, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHRAAJ INITIATED HAS BEEN CHANGED. HENCE THEY CAN NEVER BE KNOWN AS PART OF THE KHALSA. YOU HAVE BASICALLY AGREED WITH EVERYTHING, YET MARKED IT AS A DISAGREEMENT?? WEIRD?? I AM CORRECTING U DO NOT CONFUSE BABBAR AKALI MOVEMENT WITH KUKA MOVEMENT.WHILE KUKAS ATTACKED MUSLIM BUTHERS AND ADOPTED HINDU RITUALS. THE BABBAR AKALI MOVEMENT WAS LED AND CONSISTED OF AMRITDHARI SIKHS ONLY AND MOST POWERFUL MOVEMENT TILL 1947 WHILE ARMED MOVEMENT LED BY BHAGAT SINGH ENDED SOON BUT THIS MOVEMENT CONTINUED TILL END ,SOME OF THEIR LEADERS LIKE BABU SANTA SINGH,KISHAN SINGH GARGHAJ WERE FROM GADAR MOVEMENT WHO DUE TO CHEATING BY LEFT MINDED GADARS AND DEMEANING ATTITUDE THEIR ARYA SMAJI LEADERS FORMED THEIR OWN ARMED GROUPS THEIR WAY OF FUNCTIONING WAS EXACTLY LIKE BABAR KHALSA INTERNATIONAL . THEIR LEADERS BANTA SINGH CREATED SUCH SCARE AMONG THE BRITHERS THAT ON MANY OCCASIONS RAIDING POLICE AND ARMY MEN FLED ON HEARING JUST JAIKARA OF THAT GREAT SINGH WHO ATTAINED SAHIDI WHILE FIGHTING FOR48 HOURS AND BRITISHERS WERE SO MUCH SCARED OF BANTA SINGH THAT THEY BURNED THE BUILDING AND DID NOT DARE TO MOVE INTO TILL MANY HOURS AND IT WAS BELIEVED THAT GREAT SINGH WAS CREAMATED BY HIS MEN.ANOTHER SINGH WAS SANTA SINGH SECOND WHEN MOST OF THE BABARS WERE DEAD THAT GREAT SOORMA DESETED HIS ARMY UNIT AND STARTED PUNSHISING THE PERSONS WHO ACTED INFORMERS AGAINIST BRITISHERS WHEN ARRESTED HE WAS SENT TO KALA PANI BUT HE ESCAPED HE WAS SENT TO KALA PANI 7 TIMES BUT EACH TIME HE ESCAPED. SANTA SINGH WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO DID NOT BECOME STOOGE OF BRITHISHERS DURING KALA PANI AND NOTORIUS JAILER USED HAVE DREAMS OF BABA JI, HE ESCAPED AND KEEP ON KILLING BRITISH OFFICIALS AND IN 1940 HE WAS SURROUNDED AND HE FOUGHT LIKE A SOORMA AND KIILED 20 SOLDIERS WITH HIS DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN AND ATTAINED SAHIDI, DUE TO THIER COURAGE THE BRITHERS MADE SANTA BANTA JOKES WHICH UNFORTUNATLY ADOPTED BY CRAZY MAN KHUSWANT SINGH AND UNGRATEFUL HINDUS.