humkire

Where is YOUR humility and humbleness when you type that for all your seemingly sweet but false mystical stances? And be a man of principle! If what I say disgusts you, and you cannot be asked to read any further, then do not type anything further to me and expect me to read it either, instead of continuing to preach more of your mixed up beliefs. So you preach God is everywhere and in everything from the wise to the ignorant but when what is apparently ignorant in your view annoys you , you shun it! So much for the hypocrisy in not following the preach of your tall words! I seem to have ruffled your soft fine feathers. I will repeat this and continue repeating this. This is a mainstream Sikh website dedicated to mainstream Sikhi and this thread is about the blatant beadbi of SGGS in the name of Sikhi by a misguided offshoot called the neeldharees. Now be a man and come clean in condemning this beadbi if you have no other secret vested interests in this thread instead of hijacking it to preach your version of Sikhism which does not conform to tat gurmat.

!!!!! I do not understand the need for this romanticist, theologically faulty, and hot potch preach on the omnipresence of God and how everything is ultimately His game when the issue at hand which this thread is about is the videos showing a whole amount of neeldharee people dancing and clapping in the presence of Shree Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj which constitues an utterly serious beadbi for which people need to be questioned, warned, disciplined, and cautioned!!!!! As I have said before, people need to come clean whether they are a hidden neeldharees on this forum looking for ways of defending the actions of their leaders and cult. This is a mainstream Sikh youth forum! not a place for sympathisers and followers of any cults offshooting from Sikhism for whatever purposes. The discussion on this thread should be to; a)warn people who are interested in mainstream Sikhism to stay well clear of any involvement with such cults. b)to discuss ways and means so there is no further repeat of such incidences. c) to discuss ways of bringing these issue to the highest authority so such people can be reprimanded and banned from having the presence of SSGS in their meetings. d)to help their followers who have been misled to choose between such cults and mainstream Sikhism. e)to make the Sikh jagat aware of such cults so people can stay clear of them. f) summon the leaders of such cults to renounce these cults, disband and enter the fold of mainstream Sikhism, or be declared as heretics and non Sikhs. As for the issue of the omnipresence of God and how everything is God’s game, that is a discussion that is better suited in the section to do with Sikh philosophy etc not here. However, I will answer you briefly on this. You need to read or reread? the Zafarnama of Dil-e-Muhabat Shree Guru Gobind Singh apart from Gurbani to understand that as humans we do have to take responsibility for our actions, and that we cannot let the idea of God’s game as being unreal, or transient, or that God resides in all, as excuses to gloss over, trivialise, or absolve ourselves of human error, sin and karmic existence. Creation is not a fig of anyone’s imagination! Rather creation and all in it, is God’s construct with its limited spatial and time boundary. Our actions DO carry consequences and in the words of dhan dhan, tisre patshah, Shree Guru Amardas pyare maharaj, in beautiful Sri Rag, ‘lekh chaurasee pher peia, kamnh dujeh bhae’’towards the ending of ang 31, SGGS, i.e because of another’s love, the bride goes round in the circuit of eightyfour lakhs of lives.’’ This is what has to bother and concern us in relation to our conduct as gurmukhs rather than manmukhs ! and is usually a, or, the, key instigation, in making someone decide to be a spirit born and spirit led gurmukh. SGGS starts with Ik Oangkar, indeed, to immediately state that God is the Omnipresent Reality. However within the space of seven more words to describe God, Gurujee quickly expresses that God is attainable through Guruprasad and by the end of the first Japjee pauri, our attention is drawn to the need to live in the hukum of God, and so on. Hence you can see that there is an urgency to make a choice, and live an affirmative life of responsibility and transparency in order to live within God’s grace.None of these facts are unreal. God is infinite and we are finite but within our limited finite existence, we see, touch , feel , hear and smell in a very real way and we exist in the matrix, driven by our karma. Gurbani allows no one to excuse and perpetuate their manmukh existence by claiming their present condition is a link in a karmic chain for which God and not they, are responsible. This is Hinduistic teaching not Sikh! Gurbani, instead, is cosmic and universal, urging anyone and everyone to surrender to Gurujee, and receive and live by Gurprasad and see this as to be living in Akal Purukh’s hukum. Gurbani issues a universal warning to each person in this world of the consequences of being a manmatia, and urges everyone to realise, that, in this one lifetime, they need to take responsibility for their actions and will not be excused if they don’t! This is Sikhi! And Sikhi teaching! Now to your other point of pain and pleasure! The Gurvaak ‘’dukh sukh dono sam kar janeh’ of Gurbani is not implying that at some heightened mystical state these will both ‘feel’ the same! This negates tat gurmat philosophy, belittles God’s Supreme Desire for different states of feelings to exist, and for us to be able to experience the richness in variety of these states as part of our precious physical and human existence, and as part of our praise of the greatness of God. The similarity of dukh and sukh within the context of the big jigsaw puzzle of gurmat philosophy put together, is part of Gurbani’s explanation of the realm of karma within creation, whereby, a Gurmukh sees these two as the same because the both are the wheels that give motion to, and drive the chariot of karma, in the many reincarnations of a soul. There is a lot more you have said about pain, about 24/7 slavery to God, about interpreting Gurujee’s martyrdom, about heaven and hell , about God being satan and the cross, about rituals, about Gurujee’s visit to Mecca and what should be the right gyan taken from that, and that we are all God, etc, etc etc, that needs very very serious correction because your understanding is faulty but that would take me many more hours of typing, and make this a very long post. I say this in humbleness, because my main concern is that this website exists to further mainstream Sikh teachings. However if there are many requests, I will humbly endeavour to explain at great length what all these terms mean and imply in accepted gurmat philosophy. What helps anyone to get a good sound grasp of the many different concepts within Gurbani, and what they really mean, as well as their interrelationships is to make, as part of your daily Gurmukh lifestyle, a lifetime habit of reading a)a continous reading of SGGS and SDGGS with viakhiya labouring over every word, every sentence, doing cross comparisons, reading not just explanations but expositions, b) a lot of ardas to Gurujee to reveal to you His eternal truths that are hidden in Gurbani, sometimes not apparent on first read, and having a little library at home with Bhai Gurdas works, Bhai Nand Lals works, Bhai Sahib Bhai Vir Singh’s works, Professor Sahib Singh’s works, etc etc. Make it a hobby to pop in regularly into a shop that sells mainstream Sikh books or online places etc.So you are exposing yourselve s to various perspectives on Gurmat, Gur ithiyaas, etc. This is a rather enjoyable thing to do and in fact compulsory if you are very earnest. It sharpens you up so you can see through anyone’s words easily for the real truth they contain. Llving by Guru’s truth is absolutely and insanely exciting, fascinating, tantalising and appetising!

The actions in the video are distasteful, wrong, and unacceptable in mainstream gurmat traditions relating to personal behavioral etiqutte in a gurudwara, plain and simple. If anybody who has sold his soul to a namdharee or neeldharee 'guru' or 'sant', teachings and philosophy, believes these actions are right, then such a person needs to get out of this site and go defend these actions on some namdharee/neeldharee website, not here! This website exists to further accepted mainstream views of Sikhism and gurmat and explain them to all visitors, members and guests. Do not try using nirgun/sargun concepts of God to defend any such actions. This section has been set up to alert people of beadbi from the point of view of mainstream panthic maryada at both personal and sangat level, , and must not be used by people from cults to defend any actions of their cults which are unwelcome in mainstream Sikhism . When we say God is nirgun, we mean God in his 'sva' form i.e a pure state of aloneness without attributes, qualities and descriptions. When we say God is sargun, we now enter the realm of describing the qualities of Him who is 'sva' or by Himself. Hence the two are one, though appearing to be two! When we say God is omnipresent and sees everything, actually we are saying He who is all by Himself(nirgun) is omnipresent(sargun). Hence you cannot justify sin by leaning to one of these seemingly two different 'states' of God. We wear slippers outside a gurudwara, not inside. This does not mean in a simplistic manner that sargun God manifested in SGGS disallows slippers in His presence in a gurudwara but then allows them in his nirgun saroop anywhere inside and outside, or just outside a gurudwara ! This is utterly nonsensical from a theological point of view! First of all, the moment you use the word 'saroop, you are stumbling into the realm of sargun-ness of God. Nirgun is nirgun, and saroop gets discounted. God who is both nirgun and sargun at the same time, expects us to naturally get our shoes off before entering a Gurudwara for more reasons that I can count here! However the same God allows us to wear shoes to work and school , again for more reasons than I can count here. Hence the wearing and not wearing of shoes has got nothing to do with the sargun , nirgun aspects of God, but rather to, what is more relevant, where. Following from that , we cannot say that a)it is somehow better if someone danced before Gurujee rather than in his bedroom, or, b) that since God is both nirgun and sargun , hence it doesnt really matter where we dance, and dancing is acceptable anywhere! As I just explained earlier, the whole philosophy of mainstream Sikhism rationalises that it is better to show outward physical restraint in a gurudwara as per etiqutte. This does not imply that dancing is a sin, but rather that everything has its own appropiate time and relevant place. You may be a loud, emotional, physically expressive person with an intense personality and that is not necessarily wrong but there are places where you need to exercise restraint from such behavioral traits, and places where you can let go. Hence it is theologically wrong and dangerous to try to use the nirgun and sargun concepts of God to justify in any manner, that ,which constitutes religious sacrilege in the name of Sikhism, and only betrays a person's lack of true understanding of Sikhism and the rational behind panthic maryada relating to communal behaviour. The fact that the guy on the video called 'pipli wale' some misled neeldharees regard as a 'sant' is condoning this, only further establishes the fact that he is a spiritual fake. As I have said before the neeldharees are like the unneeded suckers off the main branch of a tree only diverting energy away and becoming a distraction. Their previous leader i.e kilewale's body lies buried instead of being cremated, and another guy called 'sambhi wale' claims he is the reincarnation of that kile wale, and is hence directly pitted against the pipli wale, both fighting to gain the disciples of another challenger to the gaddi of kilewale who is now dead too i.e jheel wale. That's less than half the story told but I will end it there for the time being, but not before alerting you that it is an open secret among neeldharees that their supposed saints are seriously considered to be latter day incarnations of Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, which immediately puts them at odds with the other sucker offshoot called namdharees, who claim the same of their present day 'satgurus'!. My advice is simple to Sikh youths- take amrit/khande ka pahul from authentic mainstream panj pyareh, and stick close to mainstream Sikhism and you will not be dissapointed or misled.

Yes, you are right. We should focus on humbling ourselves in the presence of Gurujee, giving 100% attention to whats being said, read, or sung and using that as a medium and means to have a deep inner surrender and communication with Gurujee, keeping our bodies relaxed, and as still as possible, so we can focus on Gurujee's presence, be in sehaj and samadhi, and draw no attention to our self, or distract others through our movements. This is the best and most mature etiquette to follow in Gurughar.

You are very right. Our focus has to be on quality. One proper pukka Sikh can become an inspiration for many people to become Sikhs. 30 million people on the other hand who are only Sikhs by name aint gonna do anything worthwhile for Sikhi if they are manmukhs. Guru Nanak Dev Jee was one, but as the primordial Gurmukh he travelled around the globe to preach Sikhi and by the time Guru Angad Dev Maharaj became Guru there were already countless Sikhs and countless more who had been touched by Gurujee! In fact to become pukka, and to focus your life on preaching Sikhi, as well as becoming a shining example of a Khalsa saint- warrior yourself, you will become Gurujee's blessed ambassador for Sikhi that is a lighthouse in humanity's darkness. Your one life of sewa, simran and satsang translating itself into the nurture and care of this planet and its future, and standing up against self destruction, evil, tyranny and imbalance will be an inspiration to people everywhere. Sikhi demands much more from us than to be content and complacent in our lifestyles and ways. History has taken us on a long , winded, and narrow path involving sacrifices, betrayals, matyrdoms, enemies from within and without, perseverence and patience. Today, we face a new dawn! Now, we are not just locked in India but now we have Gurudwaras and Sikhs around the world. In numbers we have expanded. Now too, is the time when, as compared to our early days, there is the power of the printing press, of the internet and the freedom to write, research and speak out. Hence, within our grasp is the rennaisance of Sikhism. If you look at Christianity, Buddhism , and Islam their first 200-300 years of history show a weak struggling religion but then they take off to become great, powerful and strong religions. When I plant things in my garden like coriander, passion flower plants, apple trees, clemetis, strawberry plants, chili, aubergines, pumpkins, cucumbers, courgettes etc etc at first they all struggle. Snails and slugs try to eat these young plants, but then after 2 to 3 months they start becoming strong and have thicker main stems and start to be able to cope with drought, heat, insects etc. Then they take off and become strong big plants that produce flowers, and fruits. Likewise when you sit in an aeroplane, first it starts moving slowly then faster, then even faster, then soo fast and then it suddenly looks up and lifts up away from the ground and slowly goes higher and higher from one cloud level to the one above it. Then you look down and you see clouds below you. Thus, today is the dawn of Sikhi. If the generation of 14/15 to around 40 to 50 age group can cause a radical shift using all the new resources that are available and utilising the advantage of Sikhs being strewn around the globe in all kinds of advantageous positions then we can lay a foundation for Sikhi to be mighty and powerful in the coming generations.

Which 'we'?!!!!!! We the mainstream Khalsa Panth do not raise any doubts about the authenticity of Gurbani! Our enemies do! And we need to get on with becoming pukka Khalsas/Sikhs rather than bother ourselves with prophesies!

That is exactly why, one should not be dabbling in this sort of stuff if one’s understanding of Gurbani and Sikhi are very limited. Sikhism helps us to strike the right balance between our understanding and experience. It is ridiculous to go off tangent, and off balance, in the name of mysticism when you need to focus first on getting your understanding of basic Sikhi right. This is how people become manipulated, used , cheated and irrelevant to the needs and purposes and callings of the Khalsa Panth. If someone cannot control this urge they really need to get off it immediately and learn the art of controlling your urges that’s lesson One in Sikhi before you claim to be any higher! And do not hide your weakness in controlling your urges in the disguise of ‘avastha’. Gurbani hardly even bothers repeating this word ‘avastha’ too much because Sikhi has more to do with a humble day to day life lived in the Hukum of Akal Purukh than to be classifying one’s life according to one’s tiny little spiritual avastha a term that lends itself to the birth of ego within a spiritual person faster than the weeds that grow in my garden! You are entirely wrong in stating ‘’ We cannot Interpret this avastha because we have not felt it.’’ Speak for yourself , not others! You need to do your homework and read Professor Sahib Singh’s translation and exposition of the verse you quoted starting with koi kahe…. and other teekas as well to realise you have quoted it out of context to try to substantiate the wrong point you made! You have copied the boring old habit that Radhaswamis, Nirangkaris Namdharis and Neeldharis have of conveniently, borrowing and misquoting verses from Gurbani to somehow justify their version of religion and mysticism, when it is blatantly obvious these verses are set within a deeper and higher context of meaning to unfold the mainstream philosophy of Sikhism that you would be familiar with if you stopped busying yourself with namdharee gurus and dogma and instead dug deep into the writings of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Sahib Bhai Bhai Vir Singh, Professor Puran Singh and others. At the end of the day, this is a website that exists to introduce all visitors and members to the teachings of mainstream Sikhism, not its dodgy offshoot suckers like the Namdharis and etc. I do not appreciate people from cults and other religions hanging around here like silent viruses waiting for oppurtunities to twist and turn Gurbani, Sikh philosophy and Sikh history in order to justify, defend and propagate the teachings of their cults in the name of Sikhism!

You missed nothing! Whatever never came your way at some point was not meant to be yours. As an amritdharee Sikh, your Dad is Guru Gobind Singh. He knows who you should meet, where and when. Giving manh, tan and dhan to Gurujee means that Gurujee now owns you and knows exactly what to do with you and what to show you, where and when. Humility asks a Sikh to live trusting Gurujee in everything. The more you look directly to Gurujee and less towards others to prop you up, the faster you will make progress. Even if a supposed saint was to ever come your way and offer you some of his supposed kemai and what not, to help kill off some of your karmas and sins etc , true trust in Gurujee to do the same and far more! would make you turn down that saint’s offer immediately. You need more of Guru every moment of your life, not more of anything else or anyone else! This is true Sikhi. And you really really need to stop worrying and fussing about, getting paranoid and scared of your bad karmas of previous and this life's as an amritdharee Sikh especially. This advice has been given to you in other posts you made recently. Once you become an amritdharee your heart and life is in Gurujee’s hands and you live by Gur Maharaj’s hukum and kirpa. The power and stronghold of lekha/karmas over your life gets broken and you become as Professor Puran Singh would describe it a ‘Spirit born/Spirit led person’. If someone can give me something instantly, but my Guru is going to give it to me in 20 years time, I rather wait for my Guru to give it to me! My humble advice is please please please stop obsessing about ‘mahapurushs’ and what not, and rather get on with your own life. As I always say, start reading plenty of Gurbani with viakheya(meanings and explanations), get your amritvela right, sort your naam, dan, and ishnan jeewan , get your rehat pukka, do plenty of sewa, simran and satsang and ardas, and ask for nothing more than to be Gurujee’s humble sewak and you will go a far far way ahead in this game of love with Gurujee.

I am afraid you are not really asking a question here in all sincerity. Rather you are using a question format to imply other’s ignorance of a spiritual state called mastana. a) as I stated previously, mastana or not, the tuk quoted is quoted out of context when used to justify anything other than the real objective of the tuk which is to do with an inner shift. b) a thorough understanding of Gurbani as well as Sikh history shows that Sikhism focusses on sehaj based inner mystical life where the focus is on an inner transformation or revolution within the consciousness rather than outward dramatic expressions and manifestations of masti. If you have been leading a life of simran and bhagtee you would know that there is more strength and progress in bhagti when a person controls his/her urges for outward ‘pentecostal ‘ type of mystical mastanic manifestations and rather at that one point of mastanic elevation, it is better to inwardly surrender that state totally in the presence of Gurujee so that one achieves an even higher more pleasurable inward mastanic experience that does not impinge on one’s immediate physical environment. You need to dig deep into the writings of Bhai Gurdas, Bhai Nand Lal and of course Gurbani to start appreciating the place of masti within Sikh mystical philosophy and how it is to be understood, expressed and interpreted and appreciated. Read Gurbani very carefully to differentiate between the Sikh and Hinduistic interpretation and expression of masti and mastana. None supposed 'mahapurush' can have an avastha as high as Gur Tegh Bahadur Maharaj and yet those 22 years of bhagti and simran as Gurujee awaited His turn were not spent in letting His hair down in a disco style expression of His masti, but rather in a humble inward surrender to God, a state of masti even the greatest of saints can never comprehend.

You should be going to gurudwara with the aim of cleansing your own vessel as Gurbani says. Gurudwara is the door of our Guru and Guru is our aim, our object of worship, and the focus of our attention. Only Guru is the Giver, no one else mahapurush or mungipurush! Hence, everyone who is at a gurudwara(apart from Gurujee), is a beggar, I don’t care who they claim to be, or what others claim them to be. This is Sikhi in real action. Your generation really needs to stop hero worshipping personages and unite in seeing Sikhism as a faith of Khalsa equals so we can have a democratic instead of a feudalistic heirarchial structure to the panth that is damaging to the institution of Panj Pyaras set up by Dashmesh Gurdev Pita. A truly enlightened saintly person, never draws attention to herself/himself and does not encourage others to crowd around him/her and rather shrugs off people. The One to behold, to trust, to love, to ask, to receive, and to listen to is the parkash, deedar roop and saroop of Gurdev in the form of Gurbani in a Gurudwara, nothing and nobody else. If someone appears to be a great saint etc, let them be! It is none of your business to be bothering with them at a gurudwara where you have come to meet the boss who aint that saint but Gurujee!. Your aim in life should be to ‘hukum rajai chalna’ because as Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj promises, this will make you ‘sachiara’ and break the ‘pal of kurh’. Your daily aim should be to ‘amrit vele sach nae, vdiai vichar’ because this will help you to ‘disheh darbar’ and by which God towards you will ‘sun dhreh pyaar!’. As my eldest brother in law once said to me ’keep it short and keep it simple’. At Gurudwara focus your entire attention on Gur Maharaj and stop looking over your shoulders to gain anyone else's attention, or admiring anyone else’s avastha. To each his own. Sikhi is a path, a road and you need to follow the individual roadmap Gurujee is revealing to you personally as you progress on, in your rehatvaan jeevan .

I honestly do not see the point of whether or not the coming of Guru Maharaj and Sikhi was foretold by anyone. It makes no difference to the shan and mahan of both Gurujee and Sikhi whether or not it was foretold. Ancient texts whether hebrew and whether classical sanskrit rend themselves to a variety of interpretations over which scholars of religion argue as they defend their individual interpretations according to their own school of thought. The understanding of the the greatness of Guru Nanak Dev is to be acquired through reading Gurbani and following Sikhi not by dabbling in past prophecies of other religions as interesting as they sound. We do not live to, up our ego, that our Guru's coming was foretold. Rather we humble ourselves by living as Sikhs of Gurujee. Our vishwas has to be built upon our understanding of Gurbani, not by peeking into the prophesies of others, whose motives can at best be suspect. It is not what others prophesy about your birth that is important, it is what you do after being born that really matters.

You seem to have used this lovely quotation of SGGS to defend the actions of the guy in the video! This is incorrect according to gurmat of mainstream Sikhi . Why? Because the purpose of that tuk is not to give anyone license to get their dastar off and get into a seemingly mystical frenzy of shaking their head for whatever purpose. Rather, this tuk if read in the context of the shabad at hand is a picturistric description to drive home the point of humility, servitutude and worship of Gurujee. It is using a physical description as a symbol of what needs to shift within a person’s inner being and is best left at that, rather than to be manipulatively extrapolated to wrongfully justify an action that has no place in tat gurmat. If you are an avid paathi of SGGS who reads SGGS with the aid of tikkas and kathas, you would understand this.

Singling out women as the cause of our problems is blatantly wrong and sexist and any non Sikh reading the opening comments of this thread could think Sikhs are a patriarchial, male dominated ethnic group that sees women as the weakest link in the chain. Every generation has its own issues to grapple with, and own battles to fight. We cannot reverse time and go back to 1730, or 1790 or 1850 0r 1900 or 1950 or 1980 to help fight the battles Sikhs of these periods had to fight. Likewise many of us wont be here by 2030 or 2050 or 2090 and beyond to help tackle whatever problems Sikhs of the coming generations will face. However, I trust that the majority of Sikhs who are on this site are between 14/15 to about 30 years of age. This is your generation and this is your battle. You can practically forget getting any help from the older generation especially 50/60 age group and above. They mainly occupy seats of power from Gurudwaras to Sikh institutions. They have done what what needed for their generation and most of them do not understand the problems and needs of your generation. Many of the resources your generation need is within their control and much of what needs to change is within their power, but they will not move because together with age can come complacency, risk averseness, rigidity, and comfort zones. There are four key things that the present generation age group of 15 to 40ish need to do that will lay a sound foundation for Sikhi. a) UNITE. I know it sounds insanely difficult but subdivisions on the lines of religion(jethabandhis), race(punjabee sikh vs white sikh), caste, politics and economic class need to be erased. b)REFORM. Reform is needed in how everything from gurudwaras to the Sgpc are organised and run and how power is layered especially in the Punjab. c) EQUALISE. Women are not accorded and entrusted the status and responsibilities that are due to them ranging from duties at Harmandir Sahib to the management of Gurudwaras. d)PARCHAR . Every Sikh has to see himself/herself as an ambassador and parcharak of Sikhism. These are the tasks facing the present generation of Sikhs.

My humble advice is to stay in mainstream Sikhi and focus on improving our jeewan day by day humbly, through effort and ardas. The long term rewards for this are beyond words. There is no necessity to mix up Sikhi with dancing, rather we should focus on swaas swaas simran. Likewise keep clear of getting involved or defending cults like including the neeldharees. They have enough confusion and fights and misunderstandings and leadership contests amongst themselves as it is, ranging from whether the decaying/decayed dead corpse of their previous leader Harnam Singh Kile Wale should be taken from under a gurudwara and be creamated, whether the present Sambhi wala guy is a reincarnation of the Kile Wala guy and who is better at pinching the disciples of the now dead Jheel wala guy, between the pipli wala guy and the sambhi wala guy! and whether their ardas should include ''Satguru Balak Singh ji simerye, jin marg diya bataye. Akal Purkh Satguru Ram Singh ji simerye, jin jum te leya chadaye. '', and on and on and on! Its a sect that is confused about its past, present and future! At best if our Sikh leadership was strong and united this is a sect that needs to be deleted. In gardening you always cut out extra 'suckers' that shoot out from the sides, so that they do not divert energy away from the main stem or trunk.

Consider yourself lucky if your heart swells up with emotions and feelings and tears start rolling and falling as you are doing path, keertan, katha, or nitnem. It is a sign that one is coming into a beautiful contact and relationship with Gurujee and your soul is getting permeated with love and sharda. Sadly there are many Sikhs who have a lot of emotions and feelings towards their family but none for Gurujee even though they go through the motions of reading Bani, go to gurdwara etc. Our Sikhi journey lifts up to higher levels when, through Gurujee’s grace, we start experiencing melting into an inner wetness(bhijheh), involving our heart, mind, emotions and feelings. This is when we begin to touch ras or the true spiritual nectar like-taste and essence that will suddenly make Sikhi insanely animated and aglow deep in us more than ever before! It is metaphorically like the fruits and flowers in my garden from aubergines to roses. I see the plants growing and everyday I have to look after them, protect them and feed them. Slowly they start producing buds. Then one day, I go into the garden and there are beautiful fragrant smells, colours and shapes everywhere! From honeysuckle flowers to lavender flowers to rose flowers to petunias, geraniums, and magnolias , and even strawberry flowers and ripening juicy red big raspberries and fresh spinach and chillies and aubergines, pumpkins, tinde and tomatoes, etc etc etc! From a green looking garden suddenly there is blossoming, colour, shapes and smells. Likewise in Sikhi, Gurbani emphasises over, and over, and over, and over again that Sikhi is not some mental exercise involving repetitions and formulas and dryness of emotion, hardness of heart and unlovingness. Rather, Sikhi brings us into the presence of a very beautiful, caring, mighty and creative, dynamic and all pervading God who shows us His utmost mercy, love and grace. Bani guides us 100% in our conversations with Guru God and Bani breaks our stubbornesss, and melts our hearts and floods them with so much ras, prem, sharda and feelings for God. Gurbani describes so beautifully how the spiritual garden of our heart will in time blossom, and we will become dyed in deep red permanent ‘rang’ of love and, how, slowly our minds will be lifted up so the words and song of Gurbani and simran ring continously like a heavenly orchestra around us. It requires patience and perseverance. I remember one birthday when it so happened that I ended up all alone, with just one friend with me for the day. Somehow, family and many friends who normally are with me on a birthday, were all away. This one true friend realised no one else had wished me happy birthday. So, this friend who hardly ever talks, leave alone singing! decided to sing me just one line of ‘happy birthday to you’ a couple of times! That made me feel so loved by this person who felt for me. How much infinitely more does Gurujee feel loved by us when we sing keertan to Gurujee! Hence keep listening and doing keertan with pyaar and sincerity and try your best to read and understand Gurbani. This will help you feel God’s presence during keertan and help to melt your heart even more which in turn will help you receive even more ras and have more prem bhavna for Gurujee.

Your problem arises from your understanding that it is all about the amount of recitations you do of any bani i.e more points scored as more is read. This is an idea borrowed from Hinduism of repetitive Vedic chantings to ward of evil spirits and invoke the blessings of the devas. It says in SGGS, ‘eh bani ko virla vicharsee’ i.e few and rare are those who reflect/meditate/ponder on Bani. I think you keep ignoring everything I keep telling you in a lot of your posts all over this site about a)how to really get the maximum laha out of Gurbani by focussing on understanding it, b) how Gurbani as our Guru is there to guide us and teach us things as we read Bani with understanding and c)how the Sikh way of life is principled along aligning our words, thoughts and actions along the sikhiya that oozes out of Gurbanee as we read it. Let me try to make it absolutely clear that Gurbani is never to be read like a blind parrot! Every Sikh in order to be a good pukka Sikh has to make 100% effort to understand Gurbani and theree must be no excuses for this. Why? Because NO WHERE in SGGS are we ever ordered and asked or commandered by Gurujee to keep repeating and repeating and repeating Gurbani everyday without understanding at a furious pace expecting blessings from heaven to fall on our laps! It says in SGGS ‘’eh to brahm bichar’’ i.e this(Gurbani) is a discussion/reflection on Brahm(God). From the first word in SGGS i.e IK OANGKAR , we are being instructed and taught by Gurujee the mysteries and secrets of this universe, of our life, and of God and Guru, and how we can please God and be Gurujee’s humble Sikhs and we are being taught how to love God, the importance of shunning maya and how to live in the Will of God etc. God reveals all kinds of truths and secrets to us through Gurbani which is the essential Voice of God and our Guide and Guru and Teacher. Thus the way to become a very blessed Sikh is to humbly treat Bani as our Guru that we listen to and learn things from!. One can read nitnem and 20 sukhmani sahibs a day and up the ego that he/she reads more bani than others. However one may choose to read nitnem very very slowly with love and sharda everyday making every effort to grasp the meanings and apply them to his/her thoughts, words and daily actions. Now this gives us the real laha because Gurujee sees us labouring to understand what He is telling us through Gurbani and using that acquired gyan to transform our life 100% . I can read 10 Sukhmani Sahibs a day and yet nothing in my thinking , talking and walking has changed because I have not made any efforts to see Sukhmani Sahib as my Guru through whom I can point a torch light into my thoughts, consciousness, outlook and mindset to see where a change is needed. However another person may spend a whole day reflecting on just one astpadi of Sukhmani and get totally lost in the meanings of that one astpadi for a whole year! This is the power of Gurbani. You are not realising how powerful is the meaning of even one tuk of Gurbani when you start indulging in the importance of quantity over quality. Sikhi is never about quantity but about quality. I can read lots and lots and lots of Gurbani and derive false psychological satisfaction that its gaining me more and more points upstairs. However Gurbani is to be treated with true respect and satkar. True respect and satkar of Gurbani lies in understanding that it is our duty to be committed to be very very close to Gurbani by reading Gurbani everyday as much as we can, understanding and applying Gursikhiya/Gurmat to our life. Hence if someone wants to repeat their nitnem 10 times and repeat Sukhmani 20 times, leave them to it. But, you need to read according to how much of time you have on your hands because you also have to study, work, earn money, look after your family, and be actively involved in your community, do your cooking, washing, shopping, banking, and look after the poor, weak and vulnerable in your neighbourhood, town and country through your daily caring and sharing , not to forget doing sewa at your local gurudwara! During all of these sewa, you can chant and sing God’s name and bani you know by heart and of course God will bless you and protect you. As a Sikh your faith needs to be in Gurujee and you really need to stop feeling inferior that your jacket is less bullet proof compared to others. Once you receive Khande ka Pahul i.e Amrit, then your dad is Guru Gobind Singh and Guru Granth Sahib is your Guide and Guru. He will protect you and love you perhaps even more than some high powered saint because it is you as his little baby child, that needs His protection more than anyone else. Read Gurbani carefully. Gurbani encourages us to always do simran, BUT makes it clear that God is our protector. No where does Gurbani say that a new, still learning, still struggling Sikh, will receive less protection than some saint! You have also misunderstood what I had to say about kaam, krodh etc. I am saying that Gurbani teaches us to cleanse our souls of these things, not by abandoning our wordly life and giving up our work and repeating a mala 24/7 but by an active life of sewa, simran and satsangat as well as ardas. Gurbani points out these as our real devils inside us that need to be brought under control rather than bring our attention to some external devils we need to worry about. Read SGGS carefully and you will grasp this point. My advice, as I have stated before is that you start reading Gurbani with meanings and also try to read what others say to you more slowly and carefully instead of stubbornly grasping on, defending and arguing ideas about kamai, devils and the rest you appear to have picked up along the line that are becoming an impediment to your progress and making you lose your sharda and pyaar as you stated in another post. Stop turning your shoulders around to see how much other people pray but focus your attention to your Guru who stands right before you to come a million steps towards you with every step you take towards Him humbly as Bhai Gurdas declares. You have started a few different threads and posts on this site about various aspects of your thinking concerning Sikhi ranging from devils and demons to Radha swami Gurus and sants and everything in between. You have been given very thorough answers according to tat gurmat of mainstream Sikhi by many different persons, and now you really need to print everything out and read and assimilate all these slowly without needing to continue posting and enlengthening this thread and other threads any further. Take a step back and enrichen your mind with the wealth of knowledge others have given you so that you can stop bothering yourself with radha swami gurus, and hidden demons and visions of Gurus in flesh, and the lengthy prayers of mighty saints. Instead focus your life on doing what you were instructed to by the 5 pyaras who gave you Khande ka Pahul and dig deep into a humble life of sewa, simran, and satsang, and naam , dan and ishnan, improving yourself as you go along and constantly working on improving amritvela and rehat whilst always doing ardas. See yourself as a son and protected sikh of Guru Gobind Singh and focus on living a life of caring and sharing. This is the way forward.

What you have written here I am afraid, is not in accordance with Tat Gurmat. I will explain why. If you start reading Gurbani with understanding starting from Japjee Sahib onwards, you would realise that Gurbani does not state life as a continous warfare between man and unseen devils, whereby a man not only has to be an amritdharee but be on top of the packing order as some sort of a saint with kamai to be able to fend off these devils! Far, far, far from it! Read Japjee Sahib carefully. The first pauree asks how can we be pure and in truth, and how can we overcome falsehood and then replies that this is to be achieved by beginning to operate and aligning our small individual to the Will of God. The second pauree opens our eyes as to how God’s Will causes all things to happen because God is the real doer, and the third pauree exergises this point further. The fourth pauree goes on to encourage us to get up at amritvela and praise God to receive His grace and then the fifth ends on a note of prayer that we may never forget God the giver to all. I can go on and on and on but the point I am making is that Gurujee in Gurbani does not set up a scenario of life being a battle between mere man and some unseen dinosaur strength metaphysical monsters! Rather, Gurujee asks us to look into our earthly mortal life and repair it, correct it, transform it, sort it, and change it with His help and blessings and guidance, so that we become Gurmukhs, acknowledge the Will of God and live to serve God, Guru, Khalsa Panth and mankind. Yes they may be all sorts of unseen forces but they are to remain unseen doing their own thing. We need to go about doing our business involving what we are given to see, hear, touch, feel and smell. Gurbani makes it clear that our mortal bodies are worshipped by angels and that this mortal physical body is the medium in which we have to do Guru jee’s sewa and be off. If at all, Gurbani, rather than make us alert to devil attacks from the realms of darkness!, advices us to recognise that the real demons we need to fight are anger, lust, attachment , ego and greed, and that these are our urges that we need to tackle through ardas and prayer so they become our weapons and slaves rather than our slaves to be channeled for good. Gurbani alerts us that to lack the ability to ponder, to constantly churn out desires and unnecessary whimsical thoughts, to be irresponsible, to be arrogant, stubborn , unappreciative , selfish, cruel , tyrannical , insensitive, inconsiderate… these are the real hidden devils in our character we need to weed out . These do not require you to be a ‘flying in heaven’ saint with a lot of kamai! They need you to learn the art of becoming humble! Of becoming loving! Of becoming kind! Of becoming patient! Of becoming a servant of God and Guru! Gurujee in no place in Gurbani in no place that at least I know of has ever a)proclaimed that His divine protection is ONLY afforded to some spiritual high flyers, or b) that it is some kamai of some sort that is anyone’s insurance policy against some sort of invisible sci-fi type spiritual attacks from outer space. Rather, Guru Gobind Singh is father of ALL and EVERYONE! Of HIS Khalsa no matter if you became a Khalsa 100 years ago, or in the last 60 seconds!!!!! And NO ONE, NO ONE, I add NO ONE that is the son of Guru Gobind Singh Kalgidhar Maharaj, can be touched by any devil , I don’t care if your kemai is worth 1 penny or worth a trillion dollars! No one’s kemai, yes no one’s kemai no matter who you are, where you are, what you are, is any insurance policy against any evil. Why? Because it is not our little kemai that is going to protect us from anything! But it is Guru Gobind Singh who is going to protect us from EVERYTHING! Everything that prevents ANY sincere man or woman on earth who wants to be a Sikh, a Khalsa from kissing , worshipping and shedding tears at the Lotus Feet of Shree Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj/ Shree Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. So do not be deceived by simple minded rustic ill educated persons who wrongfully interpret Sikhism as a medieval puritanical, Hinduistic- Christian type religion to do with battles with unseen demons, goblins and devils that are worn by a select few saints shown favouritism by God who choose not to marry, or work and earn honestly with their hands, and share those earnings with the poor! I grew up with a very very simple understanding of Sikhi as nam, dan, ishnan and naam japo, kirt di kemai karo and vand ke shako. And I just like many many many on this forum have had to struggle, fight many spiritual battles and go through life’s pains and struggls BUT never for a moment have I resigned my fate to be a pessimistic loser because my less than tiny bit of kemai is infinitely less than that of so and so! In all my failings and sins and in everything bad I have said, thought or done so far, I have no devil to blame but myself. If somebody has the luxury of holding a mala 24/7 in their hands and doing nothing apart from chanting and get considered as some high flyer saint, than fair dos to them if that’s how they interpret Sikhism! But a true Sikh’s Real kemai is in lovingGurujee from the bottom of the heart, doing Guru’s sewa, looking after those Gurujee has put you in this world with, and caring for the poor, disabled, disadvantaged, vulnerable and disempowered. A humble Sikh in normal clothes, who deep inside, sees himself as nothing and nobody, and enjoys taking your shoes from you as you enter the gurudwara and wipes them with his tears, and uses his small honest earnings to feed his wife, four children and neighbours and the poor, inspires me infinitely more, than the guy who sits on the altar in shining white robes preaching tall about Sikhism with the title of ‘saint’ who is revered and respected by all as some big time demon slaying spiritual warrior! A true and humble Sikh surrenders his man, tan and dhan daily to God, and trusts in the promise of Gurbanee, ‘’ jo sharan aveh, tis kanth laveh, eh birdh swami shenda’’ and always says, meh nahee, prabh sabh kich tera’. This is what you need to focus on, rather than worrying about your life and prayers not been adequate to fight unseen demons!

That's a very good question, i.e how to differentiate. If you had read my whole earlier reply slowly and carefully and done vichar , the answer lies in it already but never mind, here is more..... Firstly, if there are any mental problems going on in a person’s life that could have a bearing on a person’s spiritual life and experiences, that person would know about it. Normally, we know and understand our own physical, mental and emotional health as we grow up and need to face such issues and need to visit our doctor about these issues from time to time by which we are made aware of any health problems we have. Hence in most situations, a person as they become amritdharee, are aware of any such issues they have been facing previously and the symptoms and implications of such issues . So, for example if a certain health condition was to make me hallucinate, after becoming an amritdharee, I would be aware that if that same health condition still persisted, then I cannot suddenly start interpreting my hallucinations as true spiritual visions. Hence your ability to differentiate to a large extent depends upon that cumulative knowledge you possess about your life and health. This helps you to make a relatively good assessment. Further from that, to understand any sort of spiritual experiences you really need to start reading SGGS absolutely meticously and faithfully in an absolutely committed manner daily WITH meanings. As I keep saying, Gurujee wants to talk to us, and educate us through Gurbani in all matters concerning our life from second to second. A Sikh says ‘Gurbani is MY Guru’ and why? Because it means my Guru is teaching me everyday all kinds of things. My neighbour’s potra/grandson calls his grandpa whose name is Dave( an English builder) as ‘myDave’ . Why? because Dave feeds, loves, and guides his grandson so his grandson sees his grandpa as someone who belongs to him in a very very real way. As you spend a lifetime of labour understanding Gurbani, Gurujee will guide you everyday and show you things, teach you things and teach you how to differentiate things. This is called bibek buddhee and is Guru’s ever increasing gift to us that starts manifesting in our life more and more and more. You just gotta be humble and patient and do those things you should be doing at the level you are at. A true Sikh sees SGGS and DSGGS as Guru and asks for no further visions and supernatural powers beyond that. You really do not need to, because it is impossible for me or anyone else, to ever to be able to describe what happens to those who totally totally humble themselves 100% as the true servants and Sikhs of Gurbanee which is Guru incarnate and ask for nothing more. Your spiritual journey may start at some point by indulging in fantasies, imaginations and curiosity to experience and see God/Guru in some metaphysical vision, but as you become a Sikh you realise the path to enlightenment is through becoming dead close to Gurbanee as your Guru. A true Sikh is not one who needs to sit in a state of confusion to ponder whether this is from God and whether that is because of my mental condition.Why? because a true Sikh’s mind is ever humbled and is possessed by God Guru who talks, guides and teaches that Sikh every little thing like father and son. Your Guru is in charge of your life, your mind and how you think. He will teach you right from wrong and show you what is what. A true Sikh does not live by mind concocted opinions and ideas but by the truth and gyan that Guru imparts to him/her every second of his/her life.

God creates not just physical beings but invisible beings. A garden not looked after becomes a haven for slugs and snails. Hair not looked after attracts lice. Body not washed gets smelly and a haven for bacteria and fungul skin diseases. Brain not kept orderly, discipled, informed and alert attracts confusion. Likewise a lifestyle involving drugs and alcohol or a broken family or a troubled personality or the wrong upbringing can lead to depression and and a disturbed personality, mental illnesses like bipolar and schizophrenia, paranoia and unnecessary suspicion. A life of selfishness and manmat can result in any of these, as well as a magnet for visitations by bad spirits of all kinds. However, becoming close to Gurujee, brings us rightaway under the protection of Gurujee. A Sikh’s day starts by waking at amritvela, and worshipping God, and begging God to love, guide and protect him/her and bless the whole the whole universe. No devils will want to get anywhere near such a person, protected by God and His angels! An amritdharee may be gifted to see whats in the air beyond the normal person but even if he sees any not so nice spirits they wouldn’t bother him just like bad people shun the presence of a saint anywhere near them . If you are an amritdharee and get bothered by visions of such spirits and they are bothering you then check on your prayer life. Make sure you start waking at amritvela and doing simran, nitnem , listening afters to kirtan, doing ardas for protection, and also attending gurudwara very regularly, doing sewa, helping others, keeping in rehat, etc. This should clear things out. If still not, then you need to be honest to yourself about stuff you may have done in your preamritdharee days(like drugs) or your personal, family situation, and any mental issues you may have that could be resulting in your mind playing tricks with you. Even if it is none of the above and you are a perfectly normal person with a stable, mind, life, family , education and employment, and spiritual life, then, in these last two circumstances you should see your gp and discuss it with him. I say this, because yes there are bad spirits but, on the other hand, certain mind conditions(I don’t mean insane), can trick the mind, to produce such images of spirits and make them appear real to a person. Thus, if your prayer and amritdharee life is pukka, then if there are any bad spirits, they will run for their life! However if they still appear, then it is likely a certain mind condition is producing images of such spirits and making them appear real. It is like drinking water. If I am thirsty and drink a lot of water, my thirst ought to be over and I should feel filled up. However if I still feel very thirsty, then of course I do not need to drink more water because I do not have a shortage of water, but I do need to see my doctor, to work out why my mind keeps telling me I am thirsty when I know I am not! This mind can easily trick us to see things that arent there, even if they exist, but actually arent there! I know of a bibi who on the contary, was claiming to be seeing Guru Nanak in flesh, and initially everyone believed her as she was the religious daughter in law of a well known gyani! but it turned out it was part of her imagination playing up because she had contracted a serious infection due to post natal bleeding after child birth and the pus had travelled up and damaged her brain! Hence you need to review your situation in a wider perspective. As I have said, if your Sikhi life is pukka then in a normal situation these things shouldn’t be bothering you at all. Do not be afraid to discuss this with your gp. You can tell your gp you are a religious Sikh but still are finding it hard to deal with these things. He will know how to sort it out if it turns out to be clinical in any way.

‘’Satgur sevn aapna te virle sansar, haumai mmta mar kheh har rakheya urdhar’’ (In this world rare are they who serve their True Guru. Having killed their haumai and wordly love they keep Har clasped to their heart) ( SGGS, Sri Rag, Mahla 3rd, ang 26th) I needed to give you a more detailed explanation concerning post amritdharee haumai feelings so here it is. You mentioned getting lots of gyan and your ego getting puffed. That can happen when we think a) we know more than others, and b) we feel we understand better than others. However when you really do start understanding gurbani, you will realise gurbani is not some religious readings and formulas that place you on a higher pedestal than others. Gurbani is Guru himself through the gyan of gurbani helping you to be transformed from an ego and ‘bikh’ driven manmukh to a humble ‘amrit’ driven gurmukh. Japjee, sukhmani sahib, and any other prayers in gurbani are not there to given you some false psychological satisfaction that you now are a religious person, but rather they help you search out all the hidden viruses and spiritual diseases in your inner that are linked to pride so that ‘i’ in you can decrease and God in you can increase. Likewise doing or listening to kirtan is not about feeling you are holier than others . Rather, the tukhs and shabads being sung are totally oozing and bursting with Gurujee’s sikhiya to help to break your ego, to reduce you and your desires and needs, and to make you realise the real Doer of all is God. The shabads being sung help you to realise how to put right in the eyes of God everything you think, say and do, and how you interact with others, as well as what ought to be the new and real driving forces to help you reform the root of your personality and character in accordance to tat gurmat. Nitnem , kirtan , path are all various means of connecting you to gurbani because gurbani is Guru and Guru wants you to receive His beautiful blessings, plans and designs meant for you, by loving Him and understanding and following His sikhiya. Katha on gurbani meanings, on gurmat philosophy, on Sikh history, on Gursakhiya is all meant to help you realise that humility is the hallmark of being a gurmukh. It is never about ‘I have heard the katha by so and so so now I am learned to debate and impress and am going up in the pack order! ‘. Rather katha is meant to encourage you that you have made the right choice in taking Amrit and that now you can serve God, Guru, Khalsa Panth and humanity in utter humbleness and love, and protect the weak and meek, and stand up against evil. The flip side of taking Amrit is that you are now a humble servant and slave of Gurujee and committed to doing His sewa. The sewa of Satguru including wiping sangat’s shoes, washing juthe dishes after langar, cleaning gurudwara toilets etc etc is all meant to make you humble and give you utter joy. As time goes by, this will extend to more and more sewa for the sangat including helping out the elderly, giving the committee and granthi a helping hand, doing kirtan , and katha, looking after the needs of individual members of the sangat etc. Sewa then extends even further out into society in general, like getting involved in your neighbourhood, getting involved in charity and voluntury groups, so that in the eyes of your neighbours, your community, your town and your country you start standing out as a very humble, loving caring, compassionate, kind, generous person who helps all, protects the vulnerable, speaks out against wrong, and is 100% green and eco friendly and protects the environment. An amritdharee is never meant to be a person who segregates him/herself from society, becomes racist, looks down on others and loathes a hidden hatred for anyone in the name of religion, and indulges in mere surface psychological satisfaction by adhering to a set of dos and donts meticiously without letting the rehat and kehat of Gurujee to revolutionise your life so you become a dynamic, relevant, and indispensable part of the panth and of humanity. The way a real amritdharee’s mind works is almost impossible for me to explain and describe or even understand myself! because it is insanely and incredibly mind blowing and out of this world! It is something like having 2 brains in one place! On one hand is the ‘you’ , the you that is getting retrained, reformed and transformed and beginning to see things from new angles including non physical angles which are beyond time, space and shape. Then there is Gurujee’s activated presence in you! because Amrit has been activated and poured into your inner consciousness and is been daily replenished through nitnem, simran etc. This presence can feel like a second brain within! and sometimes you can differentiate between these two, sometimes you cannot! It can get confusing! Very confusing!! Very very very confusing!!! Utterly confusing!!!! Then suddenly Not confusing! Gurbani says ‘shabad Guru, surat dhun chela’’ The Gurbani you read and sing does not remain a stranger on the outside! Gurbani is Guru and Guru internalises to become the voice of your conscience, guiding you, showing you, quietly talking to you , alerting you, waking you, loving you, Now I am reading Japjee! Now Japjee is being read in me! Now Japjee tukha in me are talking to my brain and showing me the next pauri(next step) I need to take in my life! It starts getting more, and more, and more, and more, infinitely more, interactive! Amritdharee life and thinking is impossible to describe and it is almost a holy grail for the best of our parcharaks past, present, and future including those that get most frequently mentioned ranging from sants to scholars! A small peek into the incredibly exciting writings, (and the mind) of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, two unparalled and outstanding examples of proper gurmukhs will tell you why. As they say an ideal mind is the devil’s workshop. A true gurmukh is so so so so soooooo busily involved at every level with his Gurudev that he has no time to listen to the voice of haumai! And even if he does accidently Gurujee slaps it off for him!

That has already been answered if you read my earlier reply very carefully but if you feel like doing some physical kind of yoga too thats fine. Gymnastics are also very effective in achieving flexibility. There is no reason to be in front at Gurdarbar if your needs require you to be right at the back. Likewise if other people can magically sit through an entire session in one position fair does to them . You need to do what you can do according to your own level and it will improve as you go along. One person may come into a rehnsbhaee for 30 minutes and be granted some mind blowing experiences in samadhee whilst another person might be needing to labour cross-legged throughout a RB to gain laha, Who knows? Its Guru's game. So you really need to stop looking at other's achievements and avastha and focus on improving your own. As I said start doing aerobics at the gym, swimming, aquarobics, long walks etc . All these little things add up over time to give you better circulation , ram up your flex levels , and give you power. Also start a personal project of going through SGGS translations either from teeka or on the net. Do it from page one, going line by line, and the individual words in every tuk , and do not rush! Take your time and you might complete one sehaj path this way over one or two years but if you keep repeating this exercise, within 4 to 5 years time you would know the meaning of a lot and a lot and a lot of words in SGGS and when you listen to gurbani in any form, path, kirtan or katha you will be able to concentrate better because you will know what it means and it will all be intelligible to understand . This will help you to lose yourself in the presence of God easily so that you are paying less attention to your posture, body , etc and you will be in samadhi.

(in continuation of the above.......), This post amritdharee feeling of haumai etc is nothing unusual because it is part of the process of your growing up as a mature amritdharee. As you see the difference in what you were and what you are, you will be differentiating and learning the art of discernment between pre and post amritdharee life. Sikhi knowledge whether it comes through path, kirtan , katha or simran is based on helping you develop true humbleness in your life and true love of God. Amrit is given to you to help you develop these blessings. If you read my other replies to you everywhere you have been posting about what you are going through, I have tried to explain that after taking amrit you will go through a very big transformation in your life. This may take a day or a lifetime, thats for Gurujee to decide not us. Y You need to be patient and let it all happen for you slowly as you stay in Sikhi and water what has been planted within .

Doing all kinds of manmatia things, then doing a few prayers, and feeling guilty as a lowly sinner , and all this making you feel tiny, worthless and small as you used to in your pre amritdharee days was part of the process of breaking you up to prepare you to receive Amrit in this one janam! That was its real purpose! rather than to make it some sweet memory of your days on earth when you were truly humble and filled with true sharda! Far from it! I will explain why. A farmer has to use his agricultural tools to break up the hardened ground, then dig it in very deep, plough it, turn it over, get rid of all the weeds, then rake in good quality compost and manure, amend the soil, improve its drainage, mix everything up and then fence it up. Thats when on this weed free, nice and soft fertile soft soil , he sows his seed and in time those seeds become plants producing flowers, vegetables and fruits! . What a delightful sight, of a gardener's might, when it all works right! And so with Gurujee our Holy Blessed Gardener!!!! As Gurbanee says ''Satgur jagta he deo!'' Ever present Gurujee from generation to generation sows the seed of Sikhi into the hearts of the coming generation because Sikhi is eternal and ever growing! But to sow the seeds He needs to break you up else like hardened ground you would have rejected the seed of Amrit! Hence though with your hidden haumai you were doing very manmatia things. Gurujee started opening your eyes to your sin! And where did this sin come from? It came from your haumai! well tucked in, well hidden like the roots of a weed under the ground strangling the life out of your loved good plants without you realising it! And that prayers you did a little here and a little there was little doses of medicine given to help you amend your spiritual soil in that mighty preparation Guru was doing so that the day of Amrit would come nearer and nearer! In act this might have been a process that already started in your past few janams for all you know! So do not be fooled into any allusion that somehow you were a very humble guy in your pre-Amritdharee days! Gurbanee makes it clear that humbleness is never man made, but a gift of God, and this gift comes increasingly more and more to those who truly truly truly start getting truly closer to God Guru. True humbleness would never have allowed you to do wrong things in the first place! That's the real power of true humility. Yes you did many wrong things but through God's grace some good things too like your prayers and your realisations about your wrong. That served its purpose of prepping you for the seed of Naam which now has been planted in you throuygh Amrit Pahul. Now back to the second part of your story involving your post amritdharee days. As you rightfully said this is a period of soaking in katha, gyan , knowledge etc. And yes as you said this has led you to feel ''holier than thou'' and one step above others and feel haumai etc. T

(in continuation of the above......), Thus mortal death though on the face of it might be a similar looking event, in actuality is of two types. One is that of the ordinary person where body becomes clay and soul stays in the creation matrix , whereas the Amritdharee's soul which was already liberated now rests at the blessed Lotus Feet of God and Guru. Thus Kabir says that death which all fear gives joy to my mind!

Mortal death in Sikhism has two aspects to it. Firstly, after death, at the physical level, the body becomes part of the recylcling process of the elements. However, the soul moves out and travels on, as part of its long long journey involving countless physical births. What a person does at a karmic level in his/her lifetime has considerable influence on the future journey of this soul, apart from the bigger issue of God's mapped out journey for that soul zig zagging across all these births and rebirths i.e reincarnation. The options are thus countless because in these lifetimes, karmas keep seeding out future punishments and rewards in an unending maze alike the weeds in your garden from season to season to season, as they blower flowers, then seeds, then die and then repeat that all over again from newly germinating/fertilised seeds. Some of these journeys involve rebirth on other planets as well as well as semi physical or metaphysical existences, and include waiting times in between too! Your one present life is like a movie/film playing out with all those around you, as you progress on like actors of a movie some getting old, some dying , new ones coming, in an ever changing storyline sceanario, like Eastenders! As far as you are concerned, you think the movie ends when you die or that when someone in this movie dies then the matter is closed. However, it doesn't. That part you saw/lived out is only part of a much much longer movie and the aunt who died might quickly end up reborn as a young nephew who has come as a baby . It sounds insanely fascinating! and is true! Infact when you are a very blessed Sikh, God starts making you see This long movie apart from the shorter one of just your life! I know a family in Bristol where a man really wanted to be reborn in his younger brother's house as that man's grandson. Now this man died of brain cancer last year with a very swollen head. Guess what! a few weeks later his younger brother's daughter in law gave birth to a baby boy with a swollen brain! They dont see the give away sign but I do, and I think you too do probably! So the bigger long term movie plays out. Infact as you slowly get enlightened you might be revealed some of your past lifes on this earth, even taken to your past graves, and past houses! but try telling it to your friends and they will think you are going mad! What God can start revealing as He starts letting you be privy to that bigger, longer term , yugas-based drama is absolutely stunning, fascinating and astonishing! Suddenly you will realise that , that nephew of yours was really your dead dad and even beyond that the way this relationships have been conducted like a roulette game over so many lifetimes! Of course I am not suggesting that you make visiting mediums and psychics to work out past lifes some sort of a new spiritual hobby for yourself! or that you start constantly conducting guessing kinds of brain exercises to work out who was who in the past etc! I am just saying that if and when God does reveal such things to you , you will develop an even more fascinating insight into the drama of God that the one you are already bewitched by! Hence to answer another part of your question, no, Sikhism does Not say all life is a punishment. That would make out God to be a sadistic and evil demonic God! who creates things and then enjoys to see them writh in pain as he strangles them slowly to death one by one! God's core is love, mercy and kindness and hence if you observe life very carefully you will see that where there may be any punishment due, God's kindness stands right next to it, in a way I may not explain fully and you may not understand fully because it is absolutely complicated. Its like rising and falling oceon tides, two opposites but the same core ingredient of water. Your massi's story is one of not just punishment but also of the maximum kind of kindness by being blessed with Amrit, God's greatest gift that is a million times more remote than the lottery! Sorry to sound horribly insensitive but in fact your mass'is torture pales in insignificance to the REAL worth of her becoming an amritdharee, and no price paid to receive Amrit can ever be high enough as a reward to be given Amrit! Now let me tell you why, and this is still btw related to your question about death and the afterlife. Receiving Amrit and becoming an Amritdharee, is the way according to Sikh/gurmat philosophy by which this soul that wanders from existence to existence like a bonded slave in ''quman qeri'' (in circles), receives its salvation i.e release from lekha(the record of karma), and hence becomes like a bird finally released from a cage. In the cage, there was food, love, nurture, pain , suffering , happiness and the rest but out of the cage is its ultimate freedom. Such a soul becomes jeewan mukht i.e ''still mortally alive but now freed. Soul a soul is still on earth as a human but essentially is now in heaven. The experience of life means one thing to a Sikh and another to a non Sikh though they go through the same motions and same struggles, eat the same food, talk the same language and experience perhaps certain similar pleasures. The Amritdharee has now been overpowered, captured, seized by God and as Amrit works its magic such a person becomes increasingly guided not by his/her little thoughts, mind scheming and petty desires but rather by the Spirit of God that has become activated and animated in such a person. Such a person is a gurmukh guided by Guru. Its like a wandering caterpillar that finally became a butterfly. Such a person has her/his repose in God whether dead or alive. Thus mortal death though on the face of it might be a similar looking event, in actuality is of two types. O