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i always laf at the english spelling of dhoof... its just like uv boxed sum1 in the face doof! :PP hehehe!!!!!!!! vaha, on the info and quote!

we are in a time of kaljug,. it is an era marked by the death of (i think) krishan Ji. Guru JI just says that in all the jugs, this is the best time to jup naam. because kaljug is the hardest and darkest time, it is hard to jup naam. so if u do, there is more benifit, as it takes more concentration to meditate around badness. and in hardship. hence the thing about meditating in the tough times, u can get stronger. and just as tough times are tests in life for u to get stronger. same with bhagti. meditation.

im doing an article for a minister Re: Nihang Dastar and why it is tied. it hasto reflect their stature, spirituality and the respect element (and more if its possible). gurus bana is onepoint. any others? describing the reason / function of bunga will be appreciated (e.g. in war, protect head, weap kesh into dastaar cuz dastar is extension of us; perhaps neatness as well. ) thaks sangat jio!

i totally bump what HDSH says as per jap sahib quote. couldnt have made a better point myself.. "namastang aroope" ; "namo sarab roope" and "anek hai, fir ek hai" akaal!

wherever somone has said that guru G n god are not the same, they are mistaken, to say the least!.. obviously, sant bhagat jun soi, and gur parmeswar eko jaan, gur arjun partakh har, means nothing to the person (not u) saying that guru G aint god.. they have no idea bout the jort. but, they are righgt as well. there is only one jort! vaha vaha!

jo hum ko means whoever calls themselves god. Guru G in bachittar naatak is talking boutthe pakhandiz who make their own dharamz. Guru G then says whoever calls themselves god, the will fall into hell. hum is bahu bachan (plural tense). if you tell me that i need to get my basics ryt, u also tell sant jarnail singh ji to get their facts ryt. and all of taksaal gyanis to get their facts ryt too. you should reely be careful what you say. no need to create more karam than we have. stop reading translations. read bani. do nitnem. do what your guru G tells you. i should do this too.

when we say previous janam, we get confused as if they had the same janam as us. guru ji aka god, meditated on himself (god) for these 36 jug to prepare the universe for the naatak (the play - cuz this is all gods play) of the universe. and, during this naatak, god wanted certian things to happen. then comes stories like that attributed to samund rishi (Guru teg bahadur ji) and dusht daman (guru gobind singh ji). puran sant are guru saroop and god themselves (cuz ther are 21 levels of sants,and the first few stages are becomming a gurmukh etc.. which is next level hard btw!!). puran sant are born puran, with no lekha. they are jot saroop of god. god came to move things in the world, the way that he saw fit as and when god thought these ppl (angels and demons and deviz etc) have had their time, i.e. the angels getting ahangkaar so god then sent the demons to heaven, then took the demons outa heaven and this whole story. guru ji are the light of god (jot saroop), on earth. each time God has come to earth, a new dharam has been created. then tainted by humans.. sikhism is the last old religon with historical facts documented. sikhism is the last true old religon, hence most authentic. our gurus were akaal purakh themselves. though yes, there is the same jort in all the guruz, but in the entire line of our gurus, there was no one like guru naanak dev G. its one thing being god on earth, and another thing bing given the seva of samaaling the jort on earth, hence the tests that the gurus were put through to gain the guruship. having said this, once somone samaals the jort, they become god on earth. some may say y is guru naanak dev ji the one special different one? answer is cuz they were god themselves. not just a vessel. when guru naanak dev ji passed, and the hundus n muslims were arguing bout what to do with the body, the entire sangat saw the sheet that was covering guru naanak dev ji dip down as guru jiz body dissappered. this didnt happen with any of the other gurus as far as my knoweledge stretches. plz corect me here if you find out more about their jyoti jot divas. (obviously different for guru gobind singh G when they rode their horse through the fire and upwards). so its one thing to actually be the jot of akaal purakh ji (though we all have the light of god inside us) and its another to samaal the jot, and become god from bhai jheta ji to guru angad (through the blessings of guru naanak dev ji - god). the jort comes, lights up a person, then goes back and entrusts the jot to them.yes, its the same light. just as sat guru and sat purakh are. but there is a difference between guru and god. top level is sat purakh, then sat guru, the jun, then sant,, then bhagat. but, even though there are these differnces, guru ji says, that >>sant, bhagat, jun, soi<<. meaning that all the sants and bhagats and junz are god himself. this is hard to understand.. sone say, phd level stuffs. like hearing the naad and seeing that ball of light. to see everywhere aka sarab-byaapak. iv explained this cuz it is key in understanding what the jort is (to whatever expent we can) to then answer the question about the past lives of our gurus. they were lives. but in deep retrospect, they needed not take a janam. cuz they were akaal purakh saroop... its quite jokes as each time i post, i feel iv sed too much.. n that ppl wont appreciate it.. depending on whats what, i myt delete this / edit it.. :)

the best description of god leaves us to realise that we can't understand what cannot be understood. just look at the mathematics of infinity that georg cantor created. proof of the existance of god, and proof that we (humans) have restricted ourselves. cantor realised that the absolute infinite is where zero = infinity. this is the answer to the age old thing of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. where 0 = infinity.. . (just to add, the human restriction factor is here because, no one can explain absolute infinity, so science jus leaves it alone, and defines infinity to be sum of all positive intergers hence the restriction, hence flawed in a manner of speaking. religion acknoledges all of science in its entirety and realises that the absolute infinite is poojan jorg, so thas what relegion does.) simples.. firstly, unstoppable force meeting an immovable object thing uis a linguistic fallacy, IF we see this 'problem' as we see other things. we cannot say it is unstopable, or imovable cuz if we see it as we see forces as we do in everyday things, e.g. wind against a block of matter, then it defies the laws of physics in that, keeta pasao eko kavaao, <<<--- conservation of energy rule finite universe. for us to understand the "unstoppable force meeting an immovable object" problem, we have to see about the zero-infinity thing. i.e. a theoritical place, (gods relm) where things can be infinite, both in matter,and force. i.e. bosons (force carrier particles) and fermions (mass carriers). so to understand the existance, the only conclusion that we wil come to is that god is where zero and infinity meet. zero = infinity. im doing a pdf. nearly dun.. will post if ppl say, or if i jus wana post it this is why we jup naam cuz this is all we can do.. rahant sang bhagvan simran, naanak, labdhyang >achut< tanaha. achut means unfathomable. if u jus jup naam, then u will realise the 'transfinites' and then ull say, THAS JOKES!! :D :D

dasam granth was wayy before any khalistan talks..ur not gona find anything that says bout khalistan in DG for this simple fact. guru gobind singh ji could have taken the takhat of delhi. but didnt. why on earth do we think that we know better than guruji askin for a 'khalistan' when guruji already denied all of india and pakistan, i.e. denied the takhat.. : / ppl might be saying that the fifth attack is the final attack as that wil be the failed attack on darbaar sahib be protected by khalistanis. khalistani ppl would like to think that they will be the ones to protect. but labeling ''the ppl who protect' as khalistanis is wrong. as the protecters are gursevaks, aka khalsa. my personal take is that personally >do agree with what bhindra vale sant chose to do at harmandir sahib. i too would bleed on the floor of darbaar sahib with my brothers, and enimes. (easy tiket to heaven :PPP giv ur live for the greatest of causes, whatever cause that may be) however i see this time and time again that khalistani ppl are acting on their emotions, aka outa control / hot headed. i frequently used to say (cuz its true) that i used to be a khalistani. i too succumed to the heart-wrenching tactics of provocative one-track sikh media, to brainwash ppl through emotional blackmail. to be a khalistani, i feel, is to be restricted. restricted to a no-tolerance, blockhead, stonewalling policy. i.e. if anything is outside the line of thinking of khalistani-logic, then it is wrong. its only right if it can be approved by khalistani logic. i know plenty of 'khalistanis' all around. and out of the masses, only a few understand what should be done when faced with the choice of war. most ppl are drawn into sikhi through others saying "HOW can u stand for this!!...." this is therefore another outlet for people that have amger / self controll issues. frankly, i dont like others using emotional-tactical brainwashing . but never the less. khalistan zindabad bredaaaaaaaz! but i hope u get what khalistan reely is.. and learn how to kill someone in daya, before drinking their blood (since a true gursikh drinks the blood of demons). i so do not mean to offend. this is what i have experianced, heard, felt, and seen. so i can only go by this... (as can anyone else) thanks, n gurfath. f a t e h ***

tehe!! china is what scientists predict, as and when western 2nd recession and all that.. and we all know what chinee ppl are like in their history... war after war after war!! all for flipin land power and control.. massive ahangkarriz.. ! but yesss... (ido like chinese ppl btw.. but on the whole as per history, its a diferent story for me!! the chinese ppl iv met are soooo angelic and up front, and just nice guys..! {not as per history}) there are 21 levels of sant, puran sant being the highest level. there are also 3 main "meetings" that you (a sant) can have with god. (cuz u will be a sant neway to have this meeting). as with all things sikhi, the marag is tikha and nika. i.e. its a tuf marag. so.. first few levels of sant is gursikh/gurmukh - in its true form, (such things as understanding how to kill somone in daya for jung etc ; and other things like this that are very dificult concepts to understand.. another simpler example is things like understanding how paap and pun are the same.. kanchan {gold} and loh {sarabloh}, kachaa meeta, and other things like this in gurbani are actually the same.. e.g. paap pun doe aek samana). so.. first few levels of sant is gursikh/gurmukh - in its true form, the second, is to let guru ji come and enter your hirda and vas inside you. i.e. u do loads of naam samran, and then guru ji vasses inside you. then you come back to this earth and spread naam message.. very high sants. lastly, is where you get puran sant. they merge with god. and they never come back.. but they walk the earth. they are partakh saroop. hence, puran sant. they are saroop of god. >at least 5< sant that are like this are alive. sant baba attar singh ji, sant baba nand singh ji, and sant baba kundan singh ji, sant baba raam singh ji (naam dhari-ae ) and another sant. it is also said that if you do nindya of these sant, you are strait to narak. as it is well known, sant baba raam singh ji was a sant. guru jiz sikhs were next level. as we all know. they saw the puran saroop in sant baba raam singh ji. gurgaddi was given to guru ji granth sahib ji. this was where the sangat got confused and ended up not knowing what they were actually 'tek-ing'. as we tek guru granth sahib, we tek the jort, (with the pages >>as<< ang, and letters >>as<< rom {hair} '''mera roop granth ji jaanhu''' >bhai nand laal ji rehetnama<). when we tek anything else, we tek the jort. since baba raam singh ji, clarity was reached, then we get all the rehetnamas etc. telling us whats what etc.. as you may conclude, each puran sant has started their own 'jatha' thaat' etc. this is to create rehet and dharam in the world. but. ppl dont understand and start/ turn them into sects and factions. each set of sant, even from raam ji (hindu stuff), have started their own dharam chaal for the sake of almighty god. as did guru nanak dev ji. when guru nanak dev ji went into the river, they went up that 'sant' pauri, then through the devi devte. as guru ji went through, each devi recognised guru nanak as gur jort. as a token, each devi gave their shakti to guruji. then guruji met god, merged into god, became sampooran again, (jorti jort rali sampooran theea raam) then came back with naam and amrit. then started with the message properly.. they would not speak for ages, then somone asked gruji where ju go, then guruji till gurprasaad was spoken. they then asked, what are we gona do with this (in some form or other), then guruji said, jup... bhi sach. then naam was given.. charan amrit etc.. (im saying this cuz i dont want ppl to think im demoting guruji in any way.. soo yea..) out of each puran sant line, the line was carried on. e.g. all the other gurus. however with the gurus, its not the same like all the other sants in all of the jugs. the gurus were the special case.. (this post is getting long, i appoligise!. '(",)' ) to become at this level, it takes greatness (to say the least). and a few lifelimes of continous bhagti, and even bhagti within the sunn for a few more lifetimes.. puran sants are what i call, ..... dom dom dom.... heavyweights in the buisness! these puran sant move away from any sect. and just do bhagti.. then! through the hukam of the jort, they get given the seva. and everything hapens. ppl find dharam. through god on earth.. feel as if ive sed too much. but yess. its only good if sum1 acts on this, else, its pointless galla (talks) and not even gyaan. im included! i need to do this.. i dont do it.. i should though.. btw, these are crude ways (the 3 types of sant, >gursikh/gurmukh ; >jort keeper ; and >jort merger) to break up the pauri of sants.. but this is basic.. also, this is all in guru maharaj, and vaara and kabits of bhai gurdaas G. as for how i can precisely say (though what i say is not all that precise) its bachan from puran sant. gurfath! gurfateh*

when god created this universe, it was in a state of dhundhookaar. in sggs, gruuji says arbat narbat dhundhookara. this is where guruji jupt on himself (god). then came the jugs, and the so called 'inversion' of dwapur and treta jug due to somone's curse and karam.. im sure somone can fill in here with this story.. the passing of krishan JI marked the start of kaljug for 'chaar lakh bati hajaar' ( i think this is 432,000) human years ; aka 1000 divine years. the start of the 'great war' is soon as it is most commonly believed that kaljug started in 1500BC and so, this centry or early next centary is the time. all this is not taking into account the sants that are given the duty to look after this world. just look at how 3rd world war was prevented.. jagat jalanda raakh lai was the shabad done by the sikhs. (there are 5 maha purash that look after the world, not necessarily all from sikh religon). after >this< kaljug is finished, some say that there will be satjug forever as guru granth sahib ji will be there for guidance and this will last for >i think< 14000 years.. by this time hopefully, all souls willhave got mukti. u can get mukti now. there are (i think 5) sants that have jathas that keep comming down for seva. because there has become a sanbandh between the jatha and the puran sant (there are 21 levels of sant - written in japji sahib about the "pauri / pavari", and in siri raag and in the entire guru maharaaj). it is these souls aka sevaks that willbe left at the very end and then get their mukti. but, these souls only get this seva if they already have mukti in the first place. hope this helped.. gurfateh!! lastly, god forbid that china becomes the new super power.

"uggardunti paat" ; "ath chundi charittar ustat barnanang" ; parts of bachittatnaatak, the last charritar (No. 405).. naam shastarmala mantar is also good. this is differnt to shastar naam mala. but similar. SEC Naam Shastar Mala Mantar.pdf

and as for your gurbani quote, narayan khete narak na jaee, what on earth are you questioning here? are u saying that its on to ask "why is it that if you jup naam ou go to heaven"?? again a needless question!!!!!!!! (if this is indeed what you ask.). u again, may as well ask why are we alive en we breathe.. (this gurbani tuk means that "if you jup naam, you dont go to hell") if you think that this tuk is a question, you bisraam is in the wrong place!!!!!!!! gufateh.. o_o

the alap and arad bisraams are given by guruji as per gurbani grammer. its a well known fact that if you pause in the wrong place, the meaning is changed. so if u dont want to pause where u should, that is up to your own mut. and as for you quoting me, u do read the punctuation, but u dont say, "then the table was empty Full STOP" you dont say the words "full stop" .! you 'quoting' me in the way you have tells me that you just want to argue, rather than think about what others have written. anyone reading "S1ngh" 's post can gather that he means to say to you, dont ask questions that need not be asked (at least thats what iv gathered). yet, you quote him as well to try and 'disprove' him. if somone wanted to know, what the function of the bisraam is, then this is good for knowledge e.g. alup arad and poora. but what you ask, is why is it 2 lines?! this is like askin, why is the letter 'A' in english written like a triangle, or an arrow. you may as well ask why is the punjabi akhar 'sassa' written as such when it doesnt even look like an 's' sound. ther is no point in asking needless questions like this.

there are 3 types of bisraams. 1. alup (means 'a little bit') 2. arad (means 'half') 3. alup (again) say u have a sentance XXXX XX XXXX XX XXXX XX XXXX II the alup bisraam is a comma, the half bisraam is a semi colon. so, it could go summin like this.>>>> XXXX XX, XXXX XX; XXXX, XX XXXX II <<<< and, u can think of the double lines to be read by a pause. or, be read in your thoughts as a full line. simple amswer is, wen u read anything, in any language, you dont read punctuation. same in gurmukhi.

in the old hand written original granths, the writing used to be joined up so that no one could add anythng or take anything away, amongst other reasons. at the start and end of a sentance, there used to be a little 'flick down' of the top base line. when gurbani became split up into the words, these flick-downz became the standard bisraam, aka full stop, as we know them today. this pic below is more recent, and is most likely to be after the time of the original handwritten scripts. but u can notice how, the bisraam came about. other people may say that its cuz sanskrit has the same 2 lines. though this is the case, gurbani gave the fullstop its own 'revised' form.. u can look at it like this. old sanskrit texts have seperate letters seperated with a dot. then it became words win the bisram as we know it. so there is a similarity. but, the flick down of the top (base)line, is the reason why we have the bisraam. hope this helps.

i have a problem with this story. iv heard and red it before. y duz the prof say that the student has to go on faith? he cud have said go and do an mri. then should have said to the current knowledge u can proove its existance. then the student should have said wot if there was no mri. prof should have said u could break the skull open and check. it is in the proof. belief and faith are opposite. seeing is believing. guru naanak dev ji says do ur naam simran and get ur proof for the existance of god. simples. ogical arguments are good. but logic is inherrently flawed. u can prove alot of things that are blatently NOT true. (im not gona go into it before anyone asks!) but its a nice story.

well..yes.. i agree that muzis do it too.... the whole clean urself with theb left hand and eat with the ryt.. but... we do do it with the amrit sunchaar too.. what do u think about this? bout giving prashaad/ drinking amrit from ryt and, and the kashera ryt leg thing?

NB. as far as I see, there is no such thing as right handedness. apart from 1 thing. guru ji was right handed. thus. kara. kirpaan. and kachera rehet is thus kept. I still don’t understand the amrit sunchaar and prashad thing tho.. thanks for reading!!

it’s well understood that sarabloh holds naam well. hence the washing or guru gobind singh jis shastar and the drinking of that amrit. However cotton malas resemble the hairs (rom) that are god given to all humans for the kamaaee of naam. Doing simran 50 billion billion times a second is what rom rom simran is as, there are this many hairs on the human body (what a gift!). I understand that guruji says let all my hairs become my mala etc... and kanth ramaneea raam raam mala (my throat is my mala).... and also that u don’t need a mala to jup naam .. ! but!! I want to talk about the ‘mala side’ of things.. if this makes sense. So I guess my topic of debate is, when doing simran, which mala is best to use? (From the angle of a comparative viewpoint of sarabloh malas and cotton malas) Don’t knock the topic if u don’t like, jus don’t post!

we must make sure the right hand is on top when we drink amrit we must use the right leg as the first when changing kachare we must give out prashaad in main darbaar halls with our right hand too. including the kara. the kirpaan. why is it that we believe in right handedness? the ‘saje hath’. I asked this question to my ‘main G (gurmukh)’. but I was left with the answer of, ‘there is a ghost on the left hand and it makes u do bad things; and that at the time of satjug everyone was right-handed. and as the times got worse till now, kaljug, the leftys increased’. o_O I then answered ‘ I don’t believe in that’ then the reply was that, ‘nowadays, people don’t believe in this because it is the faas of kaljug’ then I sed, ‘guruji says >>bin seva dhrig hath pair<<. no distinguishing between right or left’. I further replied, guru G says >doe kar jor< and that all duality must be done away with, and with hell on the left (o_O) and heaven on the right, look to neither, and marry all duality, paap and pun, kanchan loh, kacha meetha, khabe and saje, and just do > doe, kar JOR <. I want to know what sangat things of this. my main G (the gurmukh) is an amazing soul. has had Kirpa from multiple sants including a pooran sant. so try not to knock what ma G has said. jus to add, guruji further says, >fir pachtaane HATH falga< {u will regret the actions of ur hands}. again no distinguishing of ryt or left hand. however, guruji also used the word, dachan/dakhan alot in sggs. >danat dachan...< in aarti. dachan is technicaly south. but ppll think its the right hand side cuz they face east towards the sunrise. thus, south becomes associated with right handed. this is also known as sun pooja to 'soorya'. and we do not worship any sun god! this is what guru nanak dev ji stoped with the whole 'ppl thinking that they were giving water to their dead reletives cuz they are thirsty' thing. - from this, we should not believe in right handed ness! in DG, guruji says, >gusse aaee kaalka, hath saje lai tarvaar kau< ...in the battle kali came with the sword in her right hand. I dout that this has any significance in the non-use of the left hand. kali was prob right handed in other words! and, bhavani (durga) held a sword in her left hand too. (>khabe dasat naachaee..< and (>khabe dasat Ubhaari..<) I want to know what sangat thinks of left and right handedness; bearing in mind the above quotes. {{this is a long first post cuz normally I wait for the discourse in these topics to gain impetus, but most of the time it never does.. so Iv just put here 1 time all that I think..}} much obliged! gurfateh!

i believe u have a vived imagination that possibly gets in the way of ur normal thoughts. i do know ppl that are like this. they can be reely rasiya in naam but because of this vivid-ness to her mind, she finds it hard to concentrate sumtimes on the things that need to be concentrated on. this vividness gives u a head start tbh. myt be dixlexia, but benign in that it has no detremental effect on ur abilities. it could be that if u do have dixlexia, its manifestation is enhancive and does not have detremental effect on uoo. its like, if u went to sum1z house and as the best cupa cha ever in life (has happened to me!) then later in life wen u rememeber that persons house, ull remember that taste too and even taste it. and cuz u personally, taste/smel that degh, u associate that feeling with gurdwara that u has it at. but yh. once u have tasted the morndharis (gunge ki) mittiaaee, then all other beauty and feeling pale in comparison to that mittiaaee. gunge ki) mittiaaee = that sweet that ppl cannot describe. guruji gave us amrit for that reason (via guru gobind singh ji and mata sahib kaur) and thas wot (supposedly) the amrit inside every human tastes like. :angeljump: :angeljump: :angeljump: :angeljump: :happybouncer: :angeljump: :angeljump: :angeljump: :angeljump:

:cook: :D

^^^^ it should be noted that though the comand was given to eat the dead body, to which out of bhai bala bhai lehena and baba budda, only bhai lehena acceptd the comand. hen he lifted the covering that was over the dead body, all they saw was degh. then everyone had that dargaahe degh. this mirical of turning real flesh into degh is also seen in the uch da pir sakhi. guru gobind singh ji was offered the meat, but through karamaat, turned it into prashaad (aka degh).

thanks shingga! ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਮਜਨੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ!!!!!!!!!!! :feelingfree: