Pyara

Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Jee Campaign North America. Just emailed them. http://www.satkar.org/

They're actually very nice and understanding. Bottom line is that they are saying that they recieved complaints about specific comments made on the show. If that's the case they can simply edit them out but show the rest of the show.

Comments Removed. Although I'm not happy!

There are very few opportunities for youth to voice their concerns regarding Sikh issues contrary to what the geriatric Jathebhandis and Gurdwara committees claim who monopolise the committee, media and kursiya in the Gurdwaras. This is why sikhsangat.com is currently seen as such a powerful media as it is represents a Sikh Youth voice, which other forms of media do not. Sikh Channel, Sangat TV and Sikh TV have to understand the need to ensure there is a young voice being projected in the Panth. The topical type youth show is a necessary format and I understand there maybe pressure from a the influential elders to stop this programme due to the content of some of discussions so far. It's laughable that these professional complainers have time to complain about minor issues when youth are allowed to voice their opinion. Yet they do not see the need for discussion of real life relevant topics. No wonder why we remain stagnant.. I strongly request Sikh Channel keep pushing these types of shows on the primetime slota so that real youth topical issues can be discussed regardless of the opposition.

I fully agree. The discussion show format was not used to the fullest potential. However, the content came in the remit of an educational programme so the focus was more towards parchaar of Satkaar as a pose to the Satkaar Campaign specific issues. Also indirect pressure from some of the influential self appointed community leaders would have meant that Sikh Channel were pressurised into "dumbing" down the issues of the Gurdwara committee party hall beadbi. What you saw last night was a result of that. All in all, the programme touched the issues but not in the true depth which most of us would have desired. I think the Sikh media is still forced to tread very cautiously and remain non-controversial by the influentual powers above.

There a number of previous media clips already on www.satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com. See the following threads. http://satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com/2011/01/reactions-from-uk-sikh-community-about.html http://satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com/2011/01/formalisation-of-satkaar-campaign-16.html http://satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com/2011/01/media-coverage-of-peaceful-protest-on.html http://satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com/2011/01/sunrise-tv-report-highlighting.html http://satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com/2011/01/sri-akal-takht-sahib-jathedar-explains.html

Many thanks for coming on-line and sharing your personal reasons for leaving this committee. Looks like you had someone with a personal grievance against you who was using sikhsangat.com to create a scapegoat out of you. I hope any victimisation some of your family may be experiencing comes to an end. Unfortunately, I have seen how the outcaste tactics work in the politics of Punjabi people. It's nothing more than "pendupauna" and it holds us back from any progression. Good luck with your sewa in the Guru ghar.

You ask why we are taking this so personally. You ask why a Sikh can not express his/her outrage at the blatant abuse of Gurdwara owned properties. Respect where respect is due. I often wonder why these committee elders demand respect, particularly when maaray kum of meat, sharab and belligernt parties take place. Shouldn't respect be earned? If someone expects respect only because they are in a position to demand it, then isn't it fake? If you ask me, a person should be respected only for their jeevan, abilities and qualities, not because their committee position or age demands it. Showing respect is different from feeling respect. The former is a conceited attempt, used, or perhaps misused, for political or selfish gains. The latter is a naturally occurring phenomenon, inspired by legitimate appreciation of the other's jeevan. Genuine respect is felt inside. It is earned by living a life that inspires and motivates. It is objective and unbiased. But, it is not demanded. Yet, we find our prabhandak committees insisting that we respect them? The truth is that respect has nothing to do with age and seniority. In fact, it is possible that we may respect many people who are lesser than us in age, experience, or status. I respect many of my elders, not because they demand it but, because they command it through their jeevans, their behaviour, and their attitude. On the other hand, I don't feel why we should have respect for simply anyone, especially if they assert themselves needlessly, frequently to show their authority and feel in control, just like these Committees running sharab dens in Gurdwara properties.

Meray Pyaray Dudley Siyaanay, Why are you trying picking holes in the action of a youth who was probably in his nappies whilst siyaanay elders like yourselves were allowing kegs of Double Diamond in the Gurdwara property! Why do you expect any poor young person to take on the maaray karam that the rest of the siyanay committee have taken on! It's their hisab kitab with Dharam Rai, don't expect others to have to take any portion of this committees paap in their lekha. Face it Siyaana, more than likely the youth didn't see this committee as inspirational Sikh role models!

Giani Ji, we will all be doing ardaasa for the chardi kala of the Dudley sangat!

Dudley sangat ji, Please don't sell our Sikh principles for a cheap boozy party hall. On Saturday, the Dudley sangat have the power to stand up for truth and morality. The power to implement change for the better. Please step up and be the driving force which makes the move towards Gurmat. A plea from your brother, think carefully before you fall for any misinformation and support the promotion of meat and alcohol in the hall. 1 ) You can access the land registry titles http://landregistryservices.co.uk/ and clearly see that title number WM882914 regarding property Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Sikh Temple Community Centre, 27 Wellington Road, Dudley (DY1 1UB) is owned by 7 trustees of the Charity known as Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Sikh Temple. 2 ) The accounts submitted to the Charity Commission for years 2006 to 2010 clearly show that the Guru Nanak Singh Sabna Sikh Temple own and run the Sikh Cultural hall http://www.charity-c...ype=AccountList The hall is associated to the Guru Ghar and as such is part of the estate regardless of it being across the road. Under no moral circumstances can meat, sharab and dancing be permitted on the sacred holy grounds of the Gurdwara property. Can the sangat of Dudley live with the conscience that this gross exploitation is taking place in their sacred Gurdwara?? The very Gurdwara where we humbly beg for amrit is being used to distribute alcohol. Committees come and go, however, Sikh principles are here forever and will outlive all of us. Please don't let "influential" personalities feed you with modern day justifications of the demand for manmat even if they posses the titles which portray them to be Sikh leaders. Sharam Dharam Doaye Shup Khaloaye Koorh Firay Pardhan Vay Laalo O Lalo, both shame and righteousness have vanished. Corruption is now the Pardhan (leader).

Sorry to hear about the the karate class being terminated in the Sikh Cultural Centre in Dudley. One can't help but interpret this sudden termination as the committee's hard-hearted response to the concerns being raised by the UK sangat on this thread. What regular activities are therefore now carried out in Sikh Cultural Centre? To me all your comments are completely bona fide and as Sikhs, I truly believe we are entitled to the emotion of outrage when committees like that of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Dudley (or any other) blatantly ignore the gurmat which governs the maryada set out by the supreme Akal Takht Sahib. No one can deny us of that emotion and all Sikhs on this forum seem to be doing is expressing this. My comments further above were general and not directed to anyone's specific postings. It was aimed more at securing the quality of peoples postings so that they remain objective to the issue at hand.

I hope that's just a misinterpretation of one or two individual's comments. You are right, ultimately the sole aim is to get the meat, alcohol and parties out of the cultural centre/hall. There is nothing political or personal in this and no one should be seen to be adding any "masala" which could be incorrectly interpreted as fuelling the outrage most of us already have regarding the beadbi taking place in these halls or ends up diluting the real issue. Any "sensational" comments (if any) which are unsubstantiated or based on rumours should be removed or edited by the user. We are all part of the same kaum and all most of us want is to ensure Gurmat prevails in the running of all our Guru Ghars. No one is challenging the sewa of this committee, however, the committee of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Dudley need to perhaps stop reading "in between the lines" of Satkaar's humble request and initiate a constructive dialogue/meeting with Satkaar to start working towards ensuring that Sikh Principles are adhered to. It's been made apparent that the trustees of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Dudley are reading the comments posted on sikhsangat.com, so once again a respectful request direct to this committee from your younger brother... please immediately address the maha beadbi allowed to take place in the Gurdwara run cultural centre.

It's Harvinder Kaur now! She's no longer Alexdrana Aitken, she's a Singhni of the Khalsa Panth! jaisaa baalak bhaae subhaaee lakh aparaadhh kamaavai || Like the child, innocently making thousands of mistakes kar oupadhaes jhirrakae bahu bhaathee bahurr pithaa gal laavai || his father teaches him, and scolds him so many times, but still, he hugs him close in his embrace. pishhalae aougun bakhas leae prabh aagai maarag paavai ||2|| Please forgive my past actions, God, and place me on Your path for the future. ||2||

Soldier, Your EDL propaganda machine desperately tried adding some super masala to this. Looks like the "great" leader of EDL thinks he had an object "thrown against the window " and thinks he saw a man who "appeared to be holding a shotgun." And he's even alive to tell the tall tale! http://www.bbc.co.uk...-herts-12305490 Attack on EDL man's Luton home probed Reports of an attack on the home of a leading English Defence League (EDL) member are being investigated by police in Bedfordshire. Officers were called to Kevin Carroll's home in Bolingbroke Road, Luton, late on Thursday after reports an object was thrown against the window of the house. Mr Carroll said he went to investigate and saw a man who appeared to be holding a shotgun. No shots were fired. Officers carried out a search of the area, but no offender was found. Police said they were trying to establish what happened and wanted to talk to anyone who saw anything suspicious.

Even if (for arguments sake) there was a "council" member on the management committee of the centre, I can't see Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council forcing the rest of the committee to serve alcohol or meat. I suppose we can call Dudley Council up on 0300 555 2345 or contact the local councillors of the St James's ward () and ask them directly "if" they are enforcing alcohol and meat to be served at the Sikh Cultural Centre. The following councillors should be able to shed some light on this. We can feed their comments back to the local sangat. cllr.khurshid.ahmed@dudley.gov.uk cllr.malcolm.davis@dudley.gov.uk cllr.mary.roberts@dudley.gov.uk

I agree, it seems to be a common scenario in many of the Gurdwara's with affiliated party halls. The accounts clearly paint a picture that the Guru ghar would be better off without the financial burden of the Community Centre (aka Sikh Cultural Centre) and as harsh as it sounds for the local sangat, selling off the Community Centre will put Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Gurdwara Dudley in a robust position. As per the Charity Commission info, the current governance framework of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha Gurdwara Dudley shows that the Charity trustees (the Prabhandak committee) currently manage the Gurmat activities in the Guru Ghar and the Anti-Sikh activities in the Community Centre. This is in direct breach of the GNSS Charitable objects "TO ADVANCE THE SIKH RELIGION IN DUDLEY AND THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBOURHOOD ("THE COMMUNITY")." The principles of the Sikh Religion condemns the consumption of alcohol and the universally agreed Gurdwara Maryada from Akal Takht Sahib clearly prohibits meat, alcohol and non-gurmat/non-dharmik songs within the property of the Gurdwaras. http://www.charity-c...sidiaryNumber=0

Here are the charity details for whoever's interested (see link), you can see the submitted accounts of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha, Dudley on the following : http://www.charity-c...sidiaryNumber=0 We see that the community centre generated £27k in the year ending 31 March 2010 (see attached accounts for 2010). As a percentage of the total gross income £142k, the Sikh Cultural Centre only generates a measly 19% of Guru Nanak Singh Sabha, Dudley's total income. The Gurdwara core activities generate £109k of income, which contributes 77% of the total gross income. After expenditure, we get an even bleaker picture and see that the Sikh Cultural Centre makes a loss of £(16)k and is therefore subsidised by the Guru Ghar's core activities. There is no justification this Committee can make in saying that the income from the Sikh Cultural Centre subsidises the Guru Ghar. If the Sikh Cultural Centre had zero income for year ending 31 March 2010 Guru Nanak Singh Sabha, Dudley would have made net income of £10k. What skews the picture is the current loan the committee have with Natwest Bank, presumably taken for the refurb of the Guru Ghar (not the Cultural Centre). Without knowing the terms and condition of this specific loan it's hard to comment. Judging from the loan interest payments it does look like low interest loan. If the committee feel that they need immoral income from the hall to contribute to paying of the loan off, I would suggest that they remortgage, pay the loan off (as it's probably short term) and take advantage of a 20/25 year repayment plan. They could be comfortably subsidise the mortage repayments from the core Guru ghar activities without needing the meat, alcohol, party income stream... Dudley Acc 31_03_10.pdf

I think it's a simple split between the very very small Sikh community. The ASA group do not want to attend the newly purchased Gurdwara but will do the beadbi of Maharaj's Saroop in the community centre. The newpaper article about women ministers is just a spin they've created on. According to the local Sangat it's a dhadhi jatha from Birmingham who will be at the diwan in the Woodlands Centre on 30th Jan.

One of the Singh's just spoke to a really nice lady at Woodlands Centre who said she's just an employee of the council. They've already had dozen calls and 3 emails. She personally can't do anything but she has communciated this issue to her manager. They are sensitive to our religious concerns but have to allow meat and alcohol on site. They only thing they don't allow is prositution and gambling. They are getting in touch with Ayrshire Sikh Association. The issue has been escalated to Cunningham house which I guess is North Ayrshire Council's head centre.

It's obviously being used as promotional material. They will simply put forward a bibya da jatha for kirtan, something which already takes place in thousands of Gurdwaras around the world. This is nothing big for Sikhs, as we all know , but I guess the Ayrshire Sikh Association are probably sensationalising this to jusitfy why they use the Woodlands Centre for their diwans and not the local Gurdwara.

http://www.pancardnr...a-pan-card.html PAN or Permanent Account Number is a ten-digit alphanumeric code generated by the India's 'Income Tax Department', that is required by anyone and everyone who wish to conduct any kind of financial transaction in India. Even those whose �financial transaction� is limited to paying income tax require it! PAN is required if you wish to enter the Indian Share Market. This is true for NRIs - Non Resident Indians living abroad too, who wish to make investment in India, buy property/house in India, open bank account, demat account, rent out a property etc.

The weblink below is an example of Gurdwara Child Protection Policy implemented by Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara Hitchin which is available on their website (see link below). Again some good practice from Hitchin Sikhs which was unfortunatly triggered after a similar incident occured there http://gurdwara-of-h...dures&Itemid=66 The Glasgow incident involving Granthi Surinder Singh Adol (from Jallandhar) and a child was a prime example of a predator manufacturing an opportunity to attempt to abuse the child. The child had just performed a shabad on the Gurdwara stage, Surinder pointed out some "mistakes" he claimed she had made on the harmonimimn and told the girl's parents that he will show her the right keys to use. Using this ploy, he invited the child into his room and then acted inappropriately with her. The child was clever and brave enough to scream which attracted immediate attention and Surinder was unable to deny the incident. With Sangat pressure the issue was taken to the authorities. Altough Surinder eventually admitted his guilt when confronted by the sangat, he's pleaded not guilty in court. These incidents are isolated, nevertheless one incident is one too many and it is unfortunately incidents like this that people remember. Also a supportive stucture is needed to be developed for the the victims in these incidents as it will only push them away from Sikhi.

In hindsight, the orginal comments I made were not going to help towards alleviating the current financial position of the Mata Sahib Kaur Academy and that can only now happen by financial contribution from the Sangat. The Academy has financially sustained over 2 years of sewa, so there is obviously something working there and it was wrong for me to comment otherwise based on unsubstantiated assumptions and interpretations. Sometimes we perhaps bring too much of our professional competencies into Sikh issues and it's not always the effective answer. This is a simple case of the Sangat being needed to knuckle down, dig deep and financially support another Gurughar. That's what is needed at this specific point in time. There is always time to revisit the past and examine any oversights....

I have withdrawn my comments made in post # 60 and want to apologise to anyone who interpreted them as an attack. In my over excited approach to thinking I need to be giving advice and being self-absorbed, I can understand how my comments may have been seen as patronising to some who have committed their sewa to the Mata Sahib Kaur Academy over the years. At this late stage (and having personally not stepped up to providing any support to Academy over the last 2 years) I fully accept my comments were unhelpful and I can see why Gurdaspuria E12 wished to make his comments. Once again, please accept my apologies to all. I request users/admin to remove any references to the original post #60. mod note:done