Only five

I am a representation of the real world. No, your a representation of YOUR world. Very true This shows alot about you and I know the Sikhs know exactly what I mean here. What can you know of what you can't see. Only the people that can see, know truly what you have said and how Manmat it is.

He based his conclusion on false premise. "is the only meter to measure SIKHI" The Khalsa knows it's not the only meter, but to help his arguement and to go in his favor he presented the false premise. A lil trick some pick up when trying to delude.

Why WEARING CHOLA and DAMALLA is the only meter to measure SIKHI, whereas after four UDASIS,Guru Nanak Dev ji also started wearing general public dress, as is mentioned by Bhai Gurdas ji :- ਫਿਰਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਆਇਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਪੁਰ ਭੇਖੁ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਸਗਲ ਉਤਾਰਾ । Then Baba (Nanak) returned to Kartarpur where he put aside his attire of a Recluse. ਪਹਿਰਿ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਕਪੜੇ ਮੰਜੀ ਬੈਠਿ ਕੀਆ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ । Now putting on a householder's dress, he sat splendidly on a cot (and executed his mission). When GURU NANAK Dev ji can execute his mission by wearing general dresses, what is the nessacity or cumpulsion for us to not wear ordinary dresses and wear only CHOLAS and DUMALS. Bhul chuk khima, WJKK WJKF What you just said above is like saying I don't have to take Amrit because Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't take Amrit. Instead of following Guru Sahib and realizing the First Nanak and Tenth Nanak are the same and one you say the above. In the Tenth form Guru Nanak Dev ji took the identity of the Khalsa. Same could be said about using weapons as self-defense. Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't pick up a sword or any other weaponed then i don't want or need to either. There is only one Guru. The teachinges were added at the correct time.

I can answer those questions. It's cuz they don't see the wisdom Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji shares and have not experienced this wisdom. People that experience and are able to see this wisdom have their inner eye opened. And Guru Sahib opened this eye because the person dedicated and put himself/herself at the Guru's feet. The devotion and yearning was there to see and experience the wisdom. It's a leap of faith that is involved. Some take it and recieve the experience. Others stand back and judge with their intellect and are unable to give up their ego. One way to get your ego under control is by saying I know nothing before going to the Gurdwara. Or before doing paath. All the don't, if, but will depart if you say it sincerely. Also think as it this way. If you can trust a strange you just met or even know for a short period of time, which requires a leap of faith then take that leap of faith toward the True Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and you'll see Guru Sahib everywhere.

Just read Jap ji Sahib and at the end you'll get your answer. According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away. ang 8

So all of a sudden it makes it right, just because there is no photos. What about the blackmail. You must agree with the blackmail. The Saroop is still a ritual to them. See this is called being untruthful, decieving, manipulative. Sikhs don't do these things and these beauty pageant people are untruthful, decieving, manipulative. They are creating false hopes and then watch these people fall. And they will fall hard. Trying to prove this illusion is better than the previous one is just as harmful. The idea is to take a person out of the illusions not give them another one. Really foolish to defend something that leads to ritualizing the Khalsa Saroop and attracting opposite sex.

We keep critising others, but what do we ourself do? Aap te kuch vi karna nahi, naa hi doosrea nu karn dena. WJKK WJKF Ji Bravo, Bravo, Exposing these fools for who they really are is not slander. If anything now you should be repenting on taking Gurbani out of context. There is more than one photo there and none of them are wearing the Khalsa Saroop. To these people the Khalsa Saroop is only a ritual. You can see that by the way they force it on the women. "if you trim then your title will taken away from you" Blackmailing a person to keep hair. Show me one time in history Guru Sahib did this. Even show me a Gursikh blackmailed someone to keep hair. You can't because it's wrong and not the Sikhi way. It's pathetic the Sikhs only by name chase after useless events. The Khalsa Saroop is not a fashion statement and if you need condifence wearing it then attain real cofidence. This real cofidence comes from Gurbani. Only something that is True and Pure will last, everything else will be wasted away and will break down. Filling people up with fake cofidence will lead to only disaster. Your not telling people to wear the Khalsa Saroop because it's Guru Sahib Saroop and Hukam. Your telling them because its still 'cool' thing to do and it still will attract the opposite sex. Instead of taking people out of illusions you are drowning them deeper in the ocean. If these doll were so true then they wouldn't need to be blackmailed. I don't need to be blackmailed into wearing the Khalsa Saroop and neither would I wear one if that's the reason for wearing it. Sikhs want their brothers and sisters to come back to the Khalsa Panth, but these Sikhs know they have to bring them back truthfully. They would never think of blackmailing or tricking or manipulating anyone in anyway to bring them to realize their is more to life than this world. Instead of acting truthfully, all these people are doing is reacting to a problem, which will not improve the Khalsa Panth, but only show over time how stupid of a idea it was.

Singh ji Indiaawareness is not a normal sikh. neither are missionary sikhs are normal sikhs. They are hard core atheists and duplicates who consider religion as a means of gaining popularity. They have no love for sikhism. Example is Gurnindak Jagtar jachak. Inspite of knowing that Spokesman has misled them on dasam granth and real target of spokesman is SGGS ji to disintegrate sikhism these Gurnindaks are still using foul language for Dasam bani. Inder Singh, the ego for these people get in the way. First they were anti-Dasam Granth and slandering Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, but when they find out they have been tricked they won't go back on their first words. Only the humble and wise realize what mistakes they have made and ask for forgiveness. So instead of completely banning the humble ones, they should be given a pass. After all they did realize their mistake. And if they openly or any other way slander Dasam Granth, then they should be summon to the Punj Pyare for a punishment. Forgive and the unity of the Panth is very important now.

This whole beauty thing has been driven into society by many sources; easpecially the media. Everyone has to look a certain way and this is considered being beautiful. Talk about being narrow minded, and judgemental. Especially women are targeted to be objects in this world. They have to dress up for guys, dress half naked to get attention and to be heard. More than ever women are slaves to a mans eye. Then women complain why men don't respect them and why they don't have higher positions in government and in companies. How can these men respect you when your just a peice of meat to them and you behave in that way. Only time they will go to respect you is if they know forsure they will get something in return. And we all know what that is. It's like the dominial effect on both sides. Couple of women start(cuz of the men) the trend and men being perverts like it and even the good men that will say it is wrong fall for it because more women continue to dress inappropriately, become dolls and it just becomes the norm. The women that do stand up to these men they get labeled as female dogs(you know the word here), stuck up, etc, etc. The men that try to do the same get labeled as homo's, queer, etc, etc. In other words these are the bad people in society and they should be avoided at all times and be cut from a (all) groups. The men and women that are slaves to men by the norm get pushed to not affiliate with the so called stuck up and homo's. It's a vicious cycle of society and the only way to not to be a victim is to stick to Sikhi. What these perverts see as beautiful is their own insecurities they have in themselves. They are not confident in who they are. So they find ways to hide this and to feel much better about themselves they subject others to the same self-disrespect because it makes them feel better. But truly they are never happy because they move on to other methods to disrespect themselves, which they end up calling the 'new trend'. People have different definitions of beautiful. And to please each and everyone would be impossible and the person would be described as just an object. If you goal in life is just to be an object then sure do as the norm expects of you. If your a Sikh of Guru Sahib then you shouldn't be looking at what others think or what society as a norm expects of you. Your attention should be what would Guru Sahib think of me. Guru Sahib said to us to decorate ourselves with his love. To decorate ourselves with Gurbani. A Sikh of the Guru maitains the body, but does not alter it. And if you look at the Khalsa, Guru Gobind Sahib ji himself defined beautiful. Anyone decorated with the 5 k's and Dastaar that practices Sikhi is beautiful to Guru Sahib. This is the Guru's way. Guru Sahib has given us the beauty that no one could ever match. The shine that comes off this identity is not describable. To go to a parlor and alter this beauty is foolish. All the make up, trimming, plucking etc will only push you away from the one that matters. The choice is yours

And about that miss Kaur comment. Here is a link. Miss Kaur already exist and see how these individuals are wearing the Saroop of the Khalsa Panth. The best part of it all is if the winner of this Miss Kaur ever cuts her hair ever again she will be stripped of the title Miss Kaur. Call up the Punj Pyare tell them judges are taking their position. What can be more foolish than this behavoir. Bullying, blackmailing someone to keep hair. Did Guru Sahib do this. http://www.sikhnet.c...miss-kaur-crown

This is true, Badal just wants to cause more confusion in the Panth. But we should have stuck to the Bikarmi right from the start, infact some didn't even change to the Nanaksahi calendar, so this sangat is pretty much saying, who cares. I could just see the confusing dividing the Panth up even more now.

You said it!!!! we have manwhore's claiming to be Mr. Singh Last time I checked A Singh with untied, unplastered beard is identity of Khalsa and looks don't matter. But the Khalsa does look good. These moderates are just sluts saying a man with open beard isn't good looking. You like how that back fired on you. leave the cr*ap out, otherwise its going to be handed to you as you deserve. Next these fools would want the Punj Pyare to plaster their beards to their face and walk down a run way looking like dolls.

You must be talking to yourself here. Well I wouldn't call Manmukh Sikh of the Guru, but your entitled your opinion Now this sounds like a true Manmukh speaking. Calling something sour, sweet. one word, Weirdo!!!!!!!!

Mr. Singh. Not at at all. These guys completely missed the mark of being Mr. Singh. The judges of this beauty pageant should be ashamed of themselves. And the ones that enter have no shame in the first place. This should be called Mr. doll. A Sikh would never enter such hideous displace and demean Guru Sahib saroop to a doll. The ones that cut their hair and practice bhagti are on the right track. Compared to the ones that run, promote, and enter this doll show.

This character is just a hater. These pessimist got nothing better to do. Great job Keerpa, and thanks for keeping it within gurmat.

THis is so true, but i guess everyone is too high class to cook the food themselves and serve the langar. I guess it shows you don't have the millions. The ones that hire caters are just <edited>. Your down right, one of the most lowly people. You are making a mockery of Guru Ka Langar. Also the Gurdwara committees are to blame, but the <edited> that higher the catering company need the sharia law to punish them. Make them beat the fat off these <edited>. At least the sharia would be put to some good usage. How <edited> can you be. Like honestly, how much more can you insult Guru Sahib. There is no excuse for this <banned word filter activated> <edited> Welcome to the world of being under moderation

Next time wear a paper bag to cover your head. OR even better wear a diaper. What i d o i t s do does not stand for Sikhi.

All you do is rant on and on about bs. The Sikhs of this world know that Sikhi is no leisure activity. They have taken what Guru Sahib says to heart and contemplated over it. You can't break or shakes these guys. You can speak all the lies you want- all they will do is laugh at you. Give these rants up and do some paath. Even listen to kirtan. Listen to a shabad that is your favorite. Do anything but this pointless rants. You might not be aware of it, but your wasting valuable time here. Keerpa ji, knows Sikhi, he seems like an extreme Sikh to you because hes developed a bond with Guru Sahib you can't understand. Neither can I. You don't know how important it is to follow Guru Sahib in every breath. How important that hair is on your body. Gursikhs are aware of it because of the bhagtti they have done. If you truly believe Gursikhs are hurting others then have the courage to speak your mind in the open at the Gurdwara or other Panthic places. Walk up to a Gursikh and share your concerns. Surely you're scared of the response you'll get, that's why you sit here and spit trash out of your mouth. You know the Sikh will put you in your place and you wouldn't be able to play with words. On these forum you know your infront of a computer and there is no face to face convo, where word play can take place. here maybe this shabad will get through to you.

"Do you actually know the purpose of the Kirpan, other then a tool for self defence??" No sorry, can you enlighten me please? It's about surrendering our minds to the Guru's will. This surrender is the true essence of our path. Look at historical sakhis, it is those Sikhs who had the kirpa to surrender who progressed the most. Those who reject Amrit, and the required kakkars, fail at the first step. I find Yuktanand Singh ji's posts to be quite illuminating, reflecting a very deep understanding of Gurbani: Explanation of Sikh dharm I recommend everyone read these, as they contain exceptional knowledge for prachaar. But my brother what are you going to surrender by wearing a kirpan. Can't you achieve that by not wearing it? It goes back to my original question, is this not same as wearing the thread of the Brahmans? If Kirpan has no practicality in the modern world, then it's another ritual object. As Sikhs aren't we suppose to move away from rituals. By wearing the 5 k's you surrender to Guru Sahib Hukam. And it doesn't go back to any where. This modern debate is so funny by these so called modern people.

If a Kirpan has some other meaning? Please explain. It sounds very much like the Brahmans and there thread (Jaanou). Why don't you search this site for the answer? You ask why Kirpan, but you made it clear already, that you won't accept any facts presented. Also you show no sincerity on finding out why. So here i'll have this back and forth debate with you. Tell us, what kind of evidence you want be to present that will make it clear for you that Kirpan is not like the Jaanuo, not outdated, and it mus be worn. Sorry if I seem ignorant but I haven't made anything clear, I'm just asking for another reason for the Kirpan, if not as a weapon. What else could be the reason? It sound's ritualistic; to wear something that has no purpose in the modern environment. All I'm asking is for an explanation. Can any one send me a link or give me a clear answer? People I'm asking you a question, there seems to be some sort of hostility towards answering it. Guru fetahy A kirpan has multiple reasons for it. Does it just have to be a weapon in self-defense. NO! A person that wnats to learn just ask's questions without making ignorant statements like calling the Kirpan a ritual. Have you ever gone to the Gurdwara and stood in Ardas. You should know the Kirpan is used in Ardas. A Sikh would never slander the kirpan and anything given to us by the Guru's. But you do it multiple times. And continue to do it. IT's obvious Sikhs will get upset when a ignorant person starts off with a false statement and then just to play's the innocent game, saying I was just asking questions. With all that said here is a link to a great article. http://www.sikhs.org/nosymbol.htm

Are you going to stop them, Singhstah? Singhstah, this starscream is going to rough you up. This guy is huge Hes the big bad wolf around here, watch out. A Sikh does not marry a non-sikh.

I don't really care what you need to do. I've explained myself enough. There is a difference between justice and revenge. Guru Gobind Singh is the highest authority there can be, not a trump card to pull out to defend an action such as this as a last resort. Did killing Gandhi make Sikhs better off in India? I'M DONE Revenge would have been torturing her for a full month and then killing her. Making her suffer to the last blood drops. That's revenge. What Indira Gandhi got was justice served to her. She knew her destiny after attacking Akal Takht. Harmindar Sahib has been attacked in the past and the attackers got what they deserved. This was no different. She made the decision and two Sikhs served her reward.

^^^^Great post. Since Gandhi would never be prosecuted for her crimes, she met the death penalty at the hands of two Sikhs. Starscream is just a fanatical Indira Gandhi fan, he cried when his mother died. Some people are so stupid, the government creates stupid laws and then people take them as the ultimate truth. These individuals can't think for themselves. These individuals question Guru Sahib, but suck up to government offical. It's visible two who these moorakhs are loyal too.

You have some nerve talking to me about anger, peace and listening to a shabad when you're the one condoning this MURDER. You're sick!!!! Thanks for the kind words Singh. Much appreciated. Stay in Chardikala Bhenji the congrats is for the justice that was served. 25 years and the justice for the victims of the dehli riots and Singhs that were killed in villages hasn't been served. Like Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji said, when all other means fail, it's right to pick up the sword.

Sargun and Nirgun saroop of Waheguru are important to understand. Singh tell me when Gurbani makes you dance and clap so I and the sangat can listen to the same shabad and see for ourselves. And I am being completely serious here. Something for you might be hidden, but Guru Sahib puts everything out in the open. Some read to find reasons for their own marayada and some listen to hear what is written. Again you say Guru Sahib gives us a Hukam, but your unable to present this Hukam. Show me where this Hukam is so this moorakh can learn. It's evident there isn't one, but you continue to say it is, which is manmat and distortion of Guru Sahibs word, Gurbani. If Guru Sahib was against Aarti then present in which shabad he says it's foolish to do. Singh if you want to see a rejection of a practice then read the shabads on idol worship. The rejection is there. The person is called a blind and mute who preforms idol worship. Present one shabad like this on Aarti and I'll apologize for wasting your time. I have asked you 8 or 10 times to present the shabads. But not one has been presented. This gets a person wondering and it shows lack of creditability. Yes the sangat will decide, but they won't use some self made Marayada's or go by some conclusion with no evidence. The sangat is going to look toward Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji for the answer. They will go to the shabads that speak about Aarti. They will contemplate over the same shabads countless times. They will speak with Gursikhs. Then again go back to the shabads and contemplate over them more and more and then come to a conclusion. Chardikala