Only five

Hold on a minute. Why bring children into this discussion. By bringing children into this discussion you are implying that your mind and others minds who want to dance are not yet fully able to understand what is right and wrong. Children do many silly things. They play with their food. So do you also play with your food like a child? Children at times will pick up dirt and put it in their mouth. Do you put dirt in your mouth to see what dirt is? Gurmat does not base it's actions on what children do and don't do. IF anything you sound like a Muslim scholar that says Muhammed was correct on marrying a 6 year old because three years later she got her first period. If you want to have an honest discussion about this, then present Gurbani. Instead you ignore the pauri I presented.

You asked where Rehat said you can't clap and cheer. Now I presented Gurbani that says that it is wrong. Be satisfied with what Satguru is telling you and come to terms with Gurbani. I knew from the start this was going to happen, hence I asked you to do the hard work of finding the shabad. You would have appreciated the Shabad and it shows you really did not look for the shabad.

There is a difference between stretching the body to prepare it for a vigorous work out and trying to heal like you say a bad back to doing Kundalini yoga. If you did not hold any hand positions or held certain positions to "release" the body of lust, anger, and ego. Then you did not participate in kundalini yoga. If you did hold certain body positions without knowing they are so called to release lust, anger, and ego, then you have been cheated into practicing Kundalini yoga. In kundalini yoga each posture is held to align the chakras to release a human from the 5 thieves. The chakras cannot be held by Kundalini yoga and Satguru explains this through Gurbani. You might think I am not doing self harm, but you are really hurting your chances at realizing Naam while practicing Kundalini yoga. Kundalini yoga does not heal the issue. It just mask's the problem. It's like drinking cha to heal a headache. The cha just gives the body a boost to look the other way. Ever seen a person so high on cocaine that he has an object jammed inside of him, but to his buddies hes telling them......I am perfect....I cannot feel a thing. People that are depressed, they go to the doctor. The doctor prescribes the person pills to mask the problem. Take the depressed person off the pills and there you have billy bob lying on the ground with a bottle of alcohol in his hand. What the doctor ought to do is ask bob why the hell are you depressed? Get to the root of the problem. If a person has a torn muscle then find a method to repair the muscle don't throw pain killers into your body hoping the muscle will heal. Essentially, the 3HO cult is hiding their true intentions for the most part on why they practice kundalini yoga. Not only does Kundalini yoga mask the problem, but 3HO are masking to the public on why to practice it. Many times I hear people say, it gives me peace of mind. I'm clear headed, i'm relaxed, etc. The person by doing kundalini yoga just took a pain killer. The real pain in everyone's life is the separation of the atma from Akal Purakh. Look up the word Yoga and it true meaning is union. Union with what? With Brahmin/ Akal Purakh/ Allah, Gobind, Ram, whatever you want to call him. But these 3HO people have the world on pain killers. Satguru said forget the pain killers. Here is a solution that doesn't have an end. Satguru says read the truth (Gurbani), be content with the truth, and then contemplate on this truth. You do these three things and you have not only given the mind complete peace, but that union is in your grasp.

ਊਚਾ ਕੂਕੇ ਤਨਹਿ ਪਛਾੜੇ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਜੋਹਿਆ ਜਮਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਇਸੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਨਚਾਏ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥

Okay it's on ang 121

Do your homework. A person that is interested in a topic will not sit around and wait to be spoon fed. He will do what is necessary to achieve the goal himself. Satguru is there and you obviously have the internet. I would not be thinking of Sarbat da bhalla if some how I was hiding Satguru from rest of the world. You don't need a special key to open the angs of Satguru. Just takes effort and time.

So do you sit there holding certain hand positions while saying a Gurmantra? Does the certain hand position or body position help calm the mind?

I don't know what you said above is true about Gursant Singh, but after what he has gone through with yogi bhajan trying to shove down Yoga is Sikhi. Then it is very understandable why Gursant Singh is anti yoga or even mention of any devi and devta in Gurbani sets him off in the other direction. Yogi Bhajan was pushing his manmat yoga stuff as Sikhi. You want proof listen to his lectures. It is, also very evident from what his students say about Sikhi and then use Yogi Bhajan as a reference to support the idea that Kundalini yoga, trantric sex is Sikhi.

Do you follow and practice everything in the Rehat Maryada?

Did you ask Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj on this matter on what is proper conduct. Satguru surely speaks on this topic. I can very easily find you the shabad, but then that would not be fun. And we need to have fun while learning. So I suggest you go onto www.sikhitothemax.com and do a search. And since we are all about Sarbat da Bhalla, then post that shabad here for rest of the members to take in Satguru's divine message. :biggrin2:

There seems to be a new trend popping up on this forum where Sikhs are being encouraged to date girls of non Punjabi background. The above poster has put it very nicely. Punjabi men want to be included in the backward culture of the western world of sleeping around before getting married. Not all Punjabi women are angels but there are many more issues among non-Punjabi women than Punjabi women. A Punjabi women that has adopted the non-Punjabi women culture of sleeping around is very well identified in the community. However non-Punjabi women brush majority of their sleeping around under the rug because they do within groups that Punjabis are not part of and hide many issues they have in their immediate environment. Punjabi women have been put to the test in 1984 and they stuck with their religion. So much hardship has been felt. Many things had to be sacrificed by Punjabi parents so their sons and daughters do not have to be rapped, slaughtered and burned alive. I think giving what the Punjabi community had to start off with, they did a very good job of trying to keep it together. Now tell me what hardship did the white population have to face in the last 30 years. Did they have tires around their necks while gasoline is being poured on to them. Did they have their daughters, mothers, wife rapped in the streets while their little sons and daughters watch hopelessly. So what do they do. They make their daughters into sex symbols. They have made their daughters into sex symbols so much that the school systems accept it. They dress up their daughters in skirts and tight tops and parade them around at sports games and call it cheerleading. It is the ungrateful people like the OP and like minded people that give Punjabis a bad name.

Next time your in the Gurdwara where Chardikala Singhs are present try to clap and cheer. See what the reaction is from the Singhs. :biggrin2:

A person can surely speak about Sikhi, ask questions and even answer questions even though he/she has uncut hair. GS Mann speaks on Sri Dasam Granth extensively. If one of those Sikhs with uncut hair wants to say that uncut hair gives them the right to ONLY speak about Sikhi. Then they should go after GS Mann and the Khalsa Panth will back GS Mann any day of the week. These communist uncles and their communist children have no knowledge on Gurbani, reject Sikh history, and slander real Sants and scholars of Sikhi. They have small minds that cannot comprehend the vastness of Sikhi.

Do they also allow slaughter houses next to primary schools?

Why can't they just stick to this, where sangat is not hooting and hollering to Gurbani

When it comes to Kundalini yoga, 3HO cult wants complete silence and focus from the one's learning. But when it comes to singing of Gurbani, they encourage their students to make a complete mockery of Gurbani, by screaming, hooting, hollering and dancing. If today Sikhs want to say this behaviour is acceptable, then tomorrow do not be shocked when Gurbani is being danced to at wedding receptions. The ignorant just need a good beat and they will make a mockery of anything.

The Sikhs that are outraged by the video are not accepting the what the audience is doing. If someone wants to use a guitar or any other instrument to sing Gurbani it is fine by Sikhs. It is the audiences reaction to the singing of Gurbani that Sikhs refer to as disrespect. 99% of that audience do not know what is being sung. They are screaming, whistling, hooting and hollering. Ask yourself would any Gursikh of the 1980s accept this behaviour. They would stop kirtan half way and tell the sangat to get it together and if not they can leave the kirtan program. Also I know which senior Gurmukh you are referring too. He was also the one that said there needs to be in jatha cleaning of the hooting and hollering during kirtan programs held by the same jatha he is part of. Ask the rowdiest jatha, Nihangs, and they will smack the taste out of a Singhs mouth if he ever displayed this kind of behaviour during singing of Gurbani. The audience in the video do not know better; they are being misled. The Sikhs on stage are to blame. They should have stopped the audience the first instance they heard the screaming. However they are teaching others such behaviour is acceptable.

I very well understood that you were not speaking about mukhti and I still stand by what I send. Present proof and we can analyze what you present. Otherwise it is just beating around the bush, hoping out of thin air you can make points with merit. Not going to happen. Satguru never has and never will bless (approve) anything that does not fit into Gurmat. Here we go again, beating the same dead horse for the nth time in a months time. No one accepted your distortion of Sargun and Nirgun last month and no one will accept it this month. Stop for your own sake trying to mix the two so others get confused. I didn't get confused last month and I won't get confused this month. If Satguru saw gunas in everyone then Muslims would not be called half blind for what they believe in and the hindus would not be called as completely blind. Satguru sees both and this has nothing to do with gunas and avgun, but it has everything to do with where one bows his/her head. Yes, when beadbi is taking place sit back and let it happen. Once it's over get on a computer and start posting on how it should have been handled and repeat the process. :stupidme: Forcing secular views in Sikhs house (Gurdwara) will not bring a positive reaction from the Sikh sangat. Full resistance will be felt by those who are committing this crime in Gurdwaras. The youth have realized a trend. Let everything go under the radar and these money hungry old slags will continue to defy Maharaj. Stand up and these old slags will try to tell you everything is okay, but they continue their disrespect. Grab the old slag committee by the legs and swing them around in circles and then they will quickly pick up their topi and sit in the sangats feet asking what do you want us to do. Without a good shake no one wakes up. Especially in today's times. Pyare and nirmat only goes so far when it comes to like minded people. Talk is cheap, present some credible history on this and then we can go further.

In what regards was he a Hindu or follower of the Vedanta school? Take a read of ang 60 of Satguru and understand what Maharaj is saying.

Can anyone show that Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh or any of the former Gurus blessed an union of any sort that did not come under Gurmat. People are being emotionally blackmailed here and pinned against a corner. What happened to open, honest post that don't manipulate the reader. N30 Singh, I honestly thought you did it on purpose, but now I am beginning to believe that you just don't know any better. You are just hardwired to manipulate others into believing what you believe. I say this with the most love in the world. Please brother get some real professional help. If you want to take a Hukamnama then be prepared to listen to what the Hukamnama will teach all. A Hukam is not some beautiful poetry just to fascinate the hears. It needs to be absorbed into the mind and then practiced. Not a single Hukam from Maharaj blesses duality unions. And inter religious marriages base is duality. I believe in the Koran as the message of Allah, you believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the message of Waheguru, both contradict each other, but we can get married because we have physical attraction for one another which we classify as love. I don't hold the view that only Amritdharis should be allowed to be married by Anand Karaj. Reason why is because everyone is going to and has made mistakes. But what really matters when standing before Satguru is whether or not in that moment of complete hopelessness the Sikh bows to Satguru and ask forgiveness. Some have their boots stuck deeper in maya and every step is much more of a struggle and some have less mud around their boots and they can raise their boot one at a time quicker out of the mud. I have met the real hardcore atheist that come to the Gurdwara just because a family function was held at the Gurdwara. These are the people who have no regard for Maharaj or anything in the Gurdwara. For these people Anand Karaj should never be done. These disrespectful people should never be tolerated for one second. However not every person that cuts his hair, drinks, parties, and only comes to the Gurdwara in a blue moon are going to fit in this category. Deep down majority of these Punjabis are still Sikhs as they still come and bow before Satguru regardless of how many mistakes they have made. To not let this group of people have an Anand Karaj is really pushing Satguru aside and dictating who can be married and who cannot based on mistakes. As an Amritdhari, I cannot remember the many times I have stood before Maharaj and felt completely helpless, even though everything is better than fine in life. This feeling of complete surrender to Maharaj just doesn't exist in Amritdharis. I believe the line should be drawn at inter religious marriages. This is clear disobedient to the most fundamental teaching of Sikhi and there is zero tolerance for people that choose to go in this direction.

Be careful presenting translations of Gurbani. ਦੂਜੈ does not mean duality. Proper translation would be, another.

Implying that other religions show the way to Waheguru. Implying others have tools that can show the way to Waheguru This is where he comes out and explicitly says that other religions show the path to Waheguru. Anyone that read his post and call themselves the new aged thinkers should have alarm bells ringing off. Have not the Sikhs been deprived of their religion because we always had some Mahapursh or Babas that made claims without providing proof from Satguru. Infact the urban Sikhs should not be liking his post, but asking for clear concise evidence for his claims. If you like his post then you have blind faith in a person and every time you accused another Sikh of having blind faith in some Baba and called them stupid has come to bite you where the sun don't shine. Gurbani is the proof you should be asking for and not sitting back nodding your head because someone wrote something that agrees with your line of thinking. Before doing a hard trick a magician has to put some other smaller tricks in to distract the human mind. They need to get the mind into that aaawwwww stage, where they are 50% brain dead. They slowly reveal parts of the grand finale but can't do a 180 at the beginning. Too many people are alert and the brain is thinking logically and will be asking critical questions very quickly. Sikhs who read Gurbani are naturally critical thinkers and don't fall into these traps. If someone tells you that Satguru in his 10th form got the Gita translated, then become a critical thinker. Don't automatically accept or assume that Satguru saw the Gita as another way to Vaheguru. If you make such an assumption or accept such nonsense, then what do you make of Satguru's Hukam. The Hukam that says study other religious scriptures, but only have faith in Gurbani. Present Gurbani that says other religions provide a path to Vaheguru and I am willing to say I made a mistake and I am very sorry.

Satguru has taught us better. If a Sikh was in Muhammads position he would have treated her as his daughter and then married her off when it was appropriate to another Sikh, who was of similar age. Sikhs are not like Muhammad who waited around 3 years to release his animal frustration on a 9 year old when he is above the age of 40.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio Go under Puratan Katha/ Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji/ Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Katha/ Ang 60 The above is Katha by Sant baba Gurbachan Singh ji from Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The katha starts by Sant ji telling us who can show us the path. Then 2:30 minutes in the katha Sant ji tells us that Gurbani is saying that no one can take the form as Satguru and then show the path to Vaheguru. This is very amazing katha. Very easy to understand even for the folks that don't understand Punjabi well. Sant ji really ends this discussion with Gurbani katha.

Bro, living among religionists is not the same as studying their religious scriptures. Imagine someone saying the same about Sikhi. First question we all would have is, were they Amritdhari? If so what jatha were they from? OOOO that jatha...........you didn't learn true Sikhi.....they don't do Waheguru simran/they don't do jhatka/they don't read Raagmala/they don't.......Here let me teach you about our religion. First rule, you can only come to me with questions and no one else And I was not calling you a Urban Sikh. You are very far from this title. Urban Sikhs know who they are and they are very proud to carry this name. Lastly it has nothing to do with caste.