AmanSingh1867

I thought he made good points. I don't believe in reincarnation and karma (as a supernatural law) myself, and I've come across more than a few other Sikhs who echo the same sentiments.

My Gurdwara does it on a weekly basis and I help out as much as I can. I also volunteer with municipal charities and food banks

Why not a 14 day food drive and feed the poor initiative? Surely, that would be much better for Sarbat Da Bhalla...

I suggest you take your own advice: You didn't quote anything in Gurbani; you took a single line out of context and it was in English as well, a poor translation at that (imo)...

Why are you taking single lines from Gurbani out of context? Post the entire Shabad and then we will have a better understanding of what is actually being said, I'm afraid you can't just take a single line out of context, twist the meaning and use it to support a position. Oh, and Gurbani also talks about goblins, demons and other mythical creatures- please tell me you don't think they actually exist...

I disagree. Gurbani also says that mortals can become "the very image of God." So are we also God?

I know I know lol sorry if it gave the wrong impression, I know you agreed with me I just meant why those people would accept the Gurus as God-incarnate but not Jesus Christ :o

Incarnations? Really? The Mool Mantar also mentions how Ik Oankar is "Ajooni"= without births and deaths, which kinda makes that argument impossible. There is no concept of incarnations in Sikhi because God is not born and God does not pass away. If the Gurus were God-incarnates, then why not Jesus Christ?

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not God. The first thing Sikhs read every morning is the Mool Mantar and it is very clear that Ik Oankar is "without form". Ik Oankar is not a physical object which can bee seen with the eyes, neither the Guru Granth Sahib nor the 10 Gurus which came before it were God- God-conscious beings, certainly, but not God. That is my understanding

Alright men, time to start out own grooming service :biggrin2: (not serious). @OP, do you really think girls only go for clean shaven guys? One of my best friends has never touched a hair on his head, wears a turban and is dating a Muslim girl. Although granted he does trim his beard (not to the point of stubble, the beard is still pretty big), but it isn't hard for a sardar to date a girl, sikh//hindu/muslim or whatever, assuming he knows how to talk to people and is confident. And yes it p1sses muslim guys off, most of them, even the more "liberal" ones, can't stand the idea of one of "their girls" dating a non-muslim, especially if it is a turbaned sikh, given the history between our two religions. The girl is a pakistani, maybe things would be different if she was arab or north african. No muslim has ever directly said anything to him (he's over 6'0 and lifts, not surprised), but his girlfriend tells him all the time about how muslims tell her to break up with him. The hypocrisy is pretty funny.

Oh come on man, do you think everyone who claims to be a Brahmgiani/ gets labelled a Bhramgiani by other people actually is one? Do you believe every Baba who says he can tell you about your past lives and what will happen in your future? Yes, there are some people out there who are deserving of the title "Brahmgiani", but they are in the minority, for every true Bhrahmgiani out there, there's at least 4-5 fake ones looking to take advantage of other people.

"Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus?" Did you miss the bold part? I'm not saying they are all bad, but in my experiences, most are only out to take advantage of uneducated gullible people who don't know any better. And I am not apologizing for anything, because as far as sants/bhramgianis are concerned, there are 2 types: a) Those who live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they have my respect, but instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge. b) Those who DO NOT live/preach in line with the teachings of Gurbani, in which case they DO NOT have my respect, and instead of seeking their opinion, I would rather go to the source (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) for advice and knowledge. Nowhere in my post did I say that they are all bad or all good for nothing. I do not follow brahmgianis, the honest ones have my respect, but at the end of the day, I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's funny how Amritdharis who at one side, because they have taken amrit, among other things, have promised to treat all humans the same way. At the other side they think it is okay to share food with one group of people and not another. You don't take amrit and then become a good person. You become a good person and then take amrit. It's a journey of development. The concept of jhoota food has most likely been borrowed from the brahmins. It is a Hindu concept and has (unfortunately) seeped into Sikhi like so many other Hindu concepts. The concept of jhooth goes against the basic principles of langar. Langar represents togetherness and equality. Jhoot is egotistical. There is no way it can fit in with Sikhi ideals as it means you are separating yourself from those around you. What about milk? It is from cow udders. Is that not jhoot? What about honey? It is regurgitated by bees (it means it has been vomitted out by them), is that not jhoot? There are coffee beans that are extracted from animal feces, I have seen Amritdharis drink coffee before, is that not jhoot? Shri Hazur Sahib does not allow women to do seva. Despite the fact that Sikh women have led armies into battle and Guru Amardas Ji gave women control of 52 out of the 146 Piris he established. At Harmandir Sahib, they can't do Kirtan because of their menstrual cycles, this despite the fact that our Gurus shattered the myth that women are dirty or any less capable of realizing God than men, after Guru Nanak reminded the world that kings may be powerful, but they are still born to women. Sad that the followers of Guru Nanak by and large ignore his message today. Personally, I do not care for the opinions of any sants or bhramgianis. More often than not, they are parasites to the panth that do far more harm than good. These blood-sucking sants/bhramgiani's think they know better than our Gurus? The bottom line is this: despite anything the Panj Pyare, Akal Takht or anyone else may say, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is without contention the highest authority in the Sikh religion. "Sabh Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth." This idea of "jhoot", that one group of religious people is cleaner than another goes against everything taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our ONLY Guru, our eternal guide. So unless there is a scientific reason backed up by tangible evidence that Amritdharis are cleaner than non-Amritdharis, I am not buying it. I don't know why you brought sants/bhramgianis up anyways, all of our Gurus warned us to be wary of them, that we shouldn't follow them blindly, or do anything they say without a good reason. I follow no sant and no bhramgiani, nor do I care about what they have to say. I only follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has the same message, the same light of the 10 Nanaks that came before it. Where does your loyalty lie? With sants/bhramgianis, or with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj? EDIT: Before someone decides to blow that last bit out of proportion, I want to make it clear that I respect both Akal Takht and the Panj Pyare, both entities were established for a reason and do have power within the faith, but they ARE NOT more important than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, nor do they have greater authority than Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji within Sikhi. Anything Akal Takht or the Panj Pyare says needs to be put to the test against Gurbani, neither one has the right to issue hukams that go against the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in any way, shape or form.

Civilized discussion, not even once. :nono:

Glad I wasn't raised in India then, Punjabi culture is by far the worst thing that ever happened to Sikhi. 1) How are Amrtidharis cleaner than non-Amritdharis? And don't say it is because the act of taking Amrit makes you cleaner or that Amritdharis have hygienic principles they need to adhere to. I can't tell you the number of times I've been in the Gurdwara washroom and I see Amritdhari guys come out of the stalls and wash their hands without soap, or worse yet, leave without washing them at all. And then these are the same guys you see in the kitchen help prepare the food or in the langar hall distributing it to the Sangat. It is called common-sense, everyone has it, Amritdharis AND non-Amritdharis. If you can't be bothered to follow basic hygienic principles before you have taken Amrit, you won't do it after you have taken Amrit either. 2) I would never marry someone who drank or smoked, I would find that out before the marriage. And if she started drinking or smoking after we got married, then I am sure she would let me know. It's a pretty crappy relationship if the wife or husband can't communicate this kind of stuff with each other. 3) Honestly, saying "it is because the Panj Pyare say so" is a cop-out. Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us to question everything, to not do something just because someone else says so unless there is a rational reason behind it. He rejected superstitions, fasts and pilgrimages for this reason. Unless there is a good, logical reason behind why it is okay to have jhoot from Amrtidharis and not non-Amritdharis, it is just another useless ritual.