DalbirSingh

Hindus come from Sikhs, the devangari script and great hindu stories were reformed after 1947 and if there was no guru gobind singh there would be no hindus today they would all be muslims praying towards mecca. we all have ancestors and our ancestors aren't always important we learn from suraj prakash granth and dasam granth of this bedi sodhi linege from ram chander. So what, in mahabharat families were at war with one another, guru nanaks own children didn't follow sikhi. Members of the sodhi family attacked the gurus and sikhs, some formed their own cults. As for Luv and Kush bedis come from one the sodhis come from the other they are both related to Sita (since one of them was miraculously created or had another biological father possibly valmiki after ram abadoned her). Or luv and kush could be twins and the ramayan is poorly translated. Valmki is seen as a brahma avtar and ram is a vishnu avtar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava_(Ramayana) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusha_(Ramayana) Sikhs are descendents of akal purkh, akal purkh ordered the gurus to come from such biological origin.

they can clean but are they equal? Can they talk or ask questions of sikhi or do katha can they get on stage and preach sikhi? can a moneh read an akhand paath?

perhaps we don't need the kirpan or kesh in this day and age either?

There is a huge difference between a child's innocence where they dance and a pedophille who rapes a child and calls himself perfect not just perfect but the perfect man till the end of times who should be mimicked. It was him he condemned dancing and music to begin with.

Don't go down that alley or you might become ali Mo Ham Mad was a great man (joke)

So if a girl was raped she deserved it for her past life karmas? We shouldn't save her either if we could as it would intervene with her karmas punishment going against god's justice?

So it's kuffar but we can make an exemption for it. Do you think we should beat children who dance and commit such utter kuffar, they must be doing great sins by dancing. I'm sure western influence such as schools, hospitals, libraries has done alot of bad in spreading kuffar

aladin or Allah- Deen had some class

So you are against children skipping, hopping and dancing the nursery rhymes? What prescribed punishment do you recommend by the shariah... oh I mean by gurmat?

Some will say if they were moneh why did they grow their kesh? Was it so that they could become better sikh? And if so then that means kesh is the difference maker.

Hatha yoga is different to Kundalani Yoga, there are many sub-divisions of yoga just like the number of religions. Hatha yoga is just about stretches really. The mantras stuff is bhakti yoga, then jnana yoga is yoga of knowledge all to attain union with brahma or his manifestations. Kundalani for the most part is bakwas there isn't no snake in your back. But even if it was a means to reduce your 5 vices what's wrong with it, does everything have to be directly reduced by gurbani and not due to banis teachings put into effect? Can the 5 vices only be subdued by lip service? "Satguru said forget the pain killers. " mate next you going to say satguru said forget the insulin if you have diabetes don't take it, satguru will heal you and if you die due to this advice don't worry it was hukam. Go and take medical treatment when you need it, this type of advice is formed by those who haven't experienced those ailments or lack empathy to understand how medical treatment helps a person. If this subtraction of medicines is your version of sikhi then you will be surprised how many people will reject it. I guess we should also shun western education and open madrassa with kids rocking back and forth being told about making war with the kuffar if we are going to take this limited thought. Every human being will contract an ailment at least once in their life, I dare you to go without medicines then and to reject vaccinations and see how it effects you.

How about dhadi jatha? How about gurmat related sangeet in general? How about a christian rock equivalent of sikh-pop where we use normal music to sing about sikhi? Is dancing so evil that if you see your child hopping and skipping singing nursery rhymes that they should be beaten with a wooden stick and told to repent in front of allah? Do we need a taliban like approach? Have the taliban got it right on this subject? Chamkilla these days is seen as classical doubt that's gurmat friendly. classical is just an era a generations preferences, plus the lack of advancement in music technology we gone far with the electrics, the apple kit, all of the digitisation. In same spirit of sharing let me give you a janamsakhi from bhagadad guru nanak dev ji's: http://www.scribd.com/doc/112312262/Guru-Nanak-Dev-Ji-His-Life-and-Teachings-by-Kartar-Singh-GurmatVeechar-com-pdf page: 225 chapter 42 (which begins from page 222) "The Guru replied, 'You have misunderstood the functions of music. Music is a potent a factor for good as for evil. It has a strange, subtle, powerful influence over the human heart and mind. Music melts the heart and makes its pliable."

I totally agree with you n30 but when I was reading what you were saying and how you were trying to tactfully say it by which you wouldn't hurt peoples feelings who are attached to those groups made me think of how muslims the followers of muhammdenism always go on tv after a terrorist act occurs and talk about how the koran, haddith, sunnah and muhaddenism aren't bad, that they are synonymous with peace (although they define it differently) and they tell us it's not a group to blame but particular mindsets, those mindsets have been drawn into wahhabism cult like groups who brainwash them. Everytime I hear them I want to shout lies, porkers right at the tv, because it isn't exactly the individuals themselves but the groups which are to blame, who don't reprimand such behaviour to begin with. NandSinghism has branched off into all sorts of subdivisions and I think the SGPC should remove them out of the panth and reprimand them they have gone too far. Nandsinghism goes against the teachings of dasam granth telling people all other scriptures of other religions are equal revelations besides being contradictory and guru gobind singh telling us the truth about them. Nandsinghism (who use satguru nanak's name) has really constructed it's own religion with the intercession of babas who sit themselves equal to guru granth sahib or even above, who call those who question them infidels since they misinterpret gurbani to say it asks for the intercession of holy men replacing pirs, brahmins with these fake sants who now have gone beyond the brahmins, syeds, sheikhs,pirs and have started to call themselves god asking for large sums of money, even mormonism is in more check then this and alot of pendu singhs are leaving sikhi because of the actions of nandsinghism, it's time to call a spade a spade. Nandsinghism demand large sums of money and then tell us nand singh removed the golak from sri guru granth sahib. Now this view would be unpopular but historically the truth is. I was a strong believer in nandsinghism through the name of nanaksar thinking them to be a shanti peaceful bhagti ghar which has removed brute force of distorted warrior hood ideas, the more you think of it they have taken out the siphia element of sikhi, they lowered the value of dasam bani. They demand huge sums of money for a receipt saying a man in a hidden room did 100s of paaths for you, they sell you a place in heaven with no guarantee. Nandsinghism also has huge denominations with grand cases of rape, and other sexual molestation charges which don't get dealt with properly due to some fat bellied man in a white round turban, with a white goan and just a kacha on claiming to be god being unchallengeable and their followers scream blasphemy when people bring such cases up. It's up to individuals to renounce them and go to proper panthic gurdwaras, shed all of these jathas we don't need them. These constructs were only put in originally to subdivide tat khalsa for strategic purposes when under attack. It's likely nand singh might have been a good man, a good sikh but we can't call him from the dead to save us and why have we dedicated guru ghars to worshipping him as the 11th guru and his paintings are put in his gurdwaras bigger then guru saroop and paintings of other gurus, it's turned into worshipping nandsingh, or his 12 13th gurus material objects like their toothbrush, or car or shoes or socks or t-shirts, which is all idolatry. But nand singh can't intercede for us infront of dharam raj even he will be judged and he wasn't god or guru nanak as some of his followers claim he was a mortal. Earning money is hard, these people don't deserve it as much as poor people in india do, besides that they don't even practise grist amongst some of these godmen who have rape/molestation charges on them. All of these modern reformists were men and shouldn't be worshipped, guru nanak taught us better, we can equally represent all of their views in civil private discussions amongst ourselves and we are sikhs first. Remove these false labels for they only go against our gurus teachings. This deravaad problem is more problematic when we allow it to exist within the circle of the panth, as for nirankari radhaswami namdhari they are all openly declared as false we might aswell declare nandsinghism on a par they are doing what the nirankaris did to begin with, the only difference is they don't call their mini denomination group cult leaders as guru or satguru but baba or sant but they equate them to God all mighty, who apparently in those forms is suffering from obesity, eye problems, diabetes, visa rejections, needs a doctor and so on. Some of these posers are criminals hiding away others are in cahoots with punjabi politicians and extortionist laundering underhanded punjabi businesses. I hold absolutely no belief for nandsinghism's many false prophets claiming to be god, they do kintu printu (distort) of gurbani (sikh scripture). I've got no respect for them (nandsinghism cult leaders), but I can respect their followers who are human beings trying to be good men who don't deserve to be deceived and lied to. Removing this cult from the panth might be an unpopular stance to take, but truth and true actions aren't always popular, just like when most of the people on this earth though the world was flat the few who discovered the truth were not popular for some time. Refer to this for the kind of punishment these fake men will recieve http://www.sikhlionz.com/Sri-Guru-Har-Rai-Sahib-Ji-and-the-wounded-snake.htm

So you feel dancing, music is entirely haram ?

ਊਚਾ ਕੂਕੇ ਤਨਹਿ ਪਛਾੜੇ Ūcẖā kūke ṯanėh pacẖẖāṛe. People shout out loud and move their bodies, ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਜੋਹਿਆ ਜਮਕਾਲੇ ॥ Mā▫i▫ā mohi johi▫ā jamkāle. but if they are emotionally attached to Maya, then the Messenger of Death shall hunt them down. ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਇਸੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਨਚਾਏ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥ Mā▫i▫ā moh is manėh nacẖā▫e anṯar kapat ḏukẖ pāvṇi▫ā. ||4|| The love of Maya makes this mind dance, and the deceit within makes people suffer in pain. ||4|| ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਾਏ ॥ Gurmukẖ bẖagaṯ jā āp karā▫e. When the Lord inspires one to become Gurmukh, and perform devotional worship, sggs 121- 122

[edit myself] i'm sorry don't get twitter they all have the reply in their tweet, okay they all hate the idea. Sikhi is all about quality before quantity but with quantity a democratic country treats you differently. Canada is still far from 3ho, that guy just wants to experience western freedoms, don't underestimate the power of sikhi though, I've seen people come from those liberal ways with a big hole in their heart appreciate sikhi more and teach those living sikhi not to take it for granted. Who knows maybe they might convert someone to the faith. Either way I think they needs to go and experience their own spiritual journeys to find the truth for himself. If you play with fire you get burnt, some people on hearing learn not to play with fire others have to get burnt to realise. Sikhi right now needs quality over quantity banda singh bahadur, baba deep singh, hari singh nalwa were 1 out of a million men. Our gems are rare but they are the ones that need to sparkle.

Thanks for the admiring the RSS agent thread. So you now eat beef? I like to think I was open minded about it and people should try it, but people shouldn't punish themselves for being a bad sikh just because they can't handle cold water. To constrict your blood vessel tightly from cold water isn't going to help your vitamin b count go up. No Go-pal cow-raiser? No go-vind? I think you do have a good point about experimenting and overall people have experiments and given up cold baths it's just not entirely practical for everyone. You got to remember tap water is chilled at higher temperatures before coming through your tap whereas the gurus who bathed in lakes were bathing in water without artificial alterations in temperatures in extremely hot climate and in a particular time period where everything was physical and enduring people had to walk 5miles to get water sometimes and the whole day was full of labour.

maybe she was wearing something like a black woolen pajam earlier and it dethreaded and was partially remnant on the her ankles. Btw why were you look at this 19-20 year old girls/bibi's ankles in a gurdwara? Do you do this frequently go and look at bibis washing their ankles?

Jonny I agree with you, but Sikhs are accusing sikhs which have nothing to do with that to be amongst those individuals a lot of good intent people are being labelled as sell outs

where http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=121

Yoga has nothing to do with sikhi, it was yogi bhajans bread and butter, his business he ran a yoga school and over the years they all started to embrace sikhi with a kundalani twist to it. They seem to be using a lot of metaphors which can go either way and don't have to be literal take for example the magnetic effect we know there isn't a real magnet but the power of simran is being metaphorically taught. Don't kick yoga entirely it's very therapeutic that is hattha yoga, it does wonders for joints, it's good for flexibility and is a good form of cardiovascular exercises as is the stretches. Gursant has some valid points, but he shouldn't be appointed the leader of the reform call of the 3ho simply because of his evangelical techniques in doing it, going and telling people off and shunning them doesn't work. By him doing it he has been banned from all 3ho events, none of them want to talk to him or sit with him. But I don't believe every 3ho-er is bad or has misconceived ideas, the sri chand statue just seems like art outside of the gurdwara, just like people have little gargoyles or elves or miniature statues of other decorations it seems, it just looks like a man sitting in the lotus position as you would in a gurdwara. Yogi Bhajan wasn't a sikh but was still part of sikh history. That statute they have actually originates from harmander sahib it was installed during the massand period and was removed around the singh sabha reform. YB is dead let's face it his followers or remains are free and independent people if they bow to the guru then just tell them to learn gurbani, question them of the shabads which challenge their practices. As for this phallus drawings I can't help but laugh, I remember seeing children go through that silly phase it's hilarious that 3ho might be taking that seriously.

I don't think it is a slaughtering house, it's going to be a processing plant i'm guessing they will do packaging. The smell won't be that bad if they follow proper health procedures so keeping it stored, wearing regulation clothing. Cleaning the place and so on. There are all sorts of meat establishments near alot of gurdwaras already. The lorries might cause noise but they are pretty much everywhere these days, perhaps they could claim compensation to have the gurdwara install double glazing to reduce the noise pollution. What can you do bradford has turned into pakistan literally there is a high concentration population of pakistani muslims in that particular area. Doubt the local mps care about appeasing sikhs.

I've tried and can't find it

That explains why sikhs marry at 30

I seem to be seeing a growing trend amongst british sikhs at least, when they don't like a particular jatha or viewpoint they label them as RSS agents, hindu government sell outs, on the payroll. Hindutva agent. It's almost at the same frequency muslims sincerely blame jews, zionists, freemasons, illuminati all sorts of non-existing conspiracy groups for their own downfalls and everything wrong with them. Why do we have people jumping to conspiracy theories every time a sikh may say or do something by mistake or have an opinion different to ours, or maybe speaking about something we don't know but out of ignorance sikhs seem to be labelling them conspiracy agents of the GOI on the darkside? Is this attitude healthy? Why even fear the RSS? So what if right wing hindu views exist they existed in our gurus time should they really take us away from sleep or mistrusting every sikh we ever interact with. How can any form of ekta exist of unity amongst diversity where we get along to fry the bigger fish when we are at each others throats calling each other a GOI agent? What gives one group the right to question everyone else and not be questioned themselves when such allegations are put forth? Why use this RSS card to launch personal attacks on one another when we have so much in common and so much to achieve collectively? If this kinda demonisation and alienation carries on aren't we going to scare people out of sikhi? Are we then going to say they weren't strong enough to be a sikh and deserved to leave or it was hukam?