khalsaland

Read Dr. Trilochan Singh's explanation http://patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com...t&Itemid=58

Sri Dasam Grant is not an issue of debate. However there can be positive discussions which aim at understanding the essence of Gurbani. Hence there is nothing like "Pro or Anti Dasam Granth". However there are believers and non believers of Guru's bani. And the message of the entire panth and Akal Takhat has been clear to those non believers....."Shararti Ansar" (mischievous mongers) Faridabad Cult doesn't even need any mention here. They are heretics who publically denigrate every bani of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib, even Nitnem, Amrit and Ardas. And Hawk13 I would suggest that instead of writing posts based on hearsay you go and do some basic study on the banees that constitute our Nitnem. In one post you denounced Ramavtar without even knowing that couplets from the composition are part of Rehras Sahib. Swayya "Bahe Gahe Jab Te..." forms the last stanza of Ramavtar where Guru Sahib has clearly given the message that though he has heard of King Ram and has written about him, he doesn't believe in Ram (as God).

Sorry, but you just went off-track here and used a wrong analogy. Charitropakhyan imparts moral education. That explains your last statement, "Khalsa won many battles....."

I do think the parts that have been accepted into the daily prayers of Sikhs is bani but have yet to make a decision of Charitrio Pakyaan and Hikayaats and maybe some other parts. Quite amusing.. Since when Sikhs have got this right to decide on the respect and authenticity of banee based on their own 'Mat', taste? Never heard of such a talk until sometime ago. P.S. Chaupai Sahib, part of Sikh prayer, is from Charitropakhyan Here we go. Is Chaupai Sahib a complete rendition of Charitropakhyan? Anyway, I am still studying it and haven't drawn any firm conclusions yet. Do you understand that? Like we must switch off our brains completetly and swallow what you believe without question...... CHILL PILL DUDE!! No need to jump off the chair...relax I guess we should also start accepting all the 'questions' by Nirankaris, Namdharis, Bhaniyarewala, Ashutosh, Sacha Sauda. Why 'your' questions be of any more importance than theirs? If you still have to make up your mind on Charitropakhyan, you still have not made up your mind on Chaupai Sahib... Does this notion make any sense? "I believe in the salok in the end of Japuji Sahib but havent made up my mind on Japuji Sahib" Get some information on the structure of the granth you are so keen on making decisions on.

I do think the parts that have been accepted into the daily prayers of Sikhs is bani but have yet to make a decision of Charitrio Pakyaan and Hikayaats and maybe some other parts. Quite amusing.. Since when Sikhs have got this right to decide on the respect and authenticity of banee based on their own 'Mat', taste? Never heard of such a talk until sometime ago. P.S. Chaupai Sahib, part of Sikh prayer, is from Charitropakhyan

..coming back to the topic of this thread A small advice to the owner(s)/moderators of SPN. If you respect the banee of the Tenth Master (as one of you has claimed) then your kirpan should also shake in its scabbard when someone makes a derogatory remark about it. As someone very well said, "We as Sikhs respect even the jorhe (shoes) of Guru Sahibs. We should think twice about the language we use while addressing a granth that contains the banees of Nitnem, Amrit and Ardas") Better done than said...

UKGuptKaur, I should start by writing this. No one has ever denied that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the eternal Guru. (Just think, it was the Sikhs of Hazoor Sahib who just last year celebrated the tercentenary of Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib with full zeal and enthusiasm). This fact should be food for thought. Secondly, Yes, no one can claim to be a Sikh without believing in the banee of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib. Thats what the definition of the Sikh (given in Sikh Rehat Maryada) also says. You cannot initiate someone to Sikhism without using the banee of the Tenth Master. Sikh's Nitnem, Ardas, Amrit partially comes from the banee of the Tenth Mater. And that is his legacy to us Khalsas. Arguing over what was recited, and what can be recited is stepping into the quagmire of blasphemy. Saying that Sikhs existed before the banee of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib is akin saying that Sikhs can also exist without the Kakkars. Finally, loving both the father and a mother is not a sin, is it? If a person says he loves his mother too, it doesnt really mean he is saying "he hates his father". Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Sri Dasam Granth, though mutually exclusive, are complementary to each other. As someone else said, Sindhis also believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. But they are not Sikhs. Its the concept of organisational religion which makes us Sikhs. And this organisational religion gets its inspiration from Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sri Dasam Granth, Vaaran Bhai Gurdas, Rehatnames etc. We ought to respect these and believe in these if we want to be a part of Khalsa brotherhood.

Did anyone realise that the addition of the names of 35 Bhagats is at the expense of 40 Mukte...yes they have removed the mentioning of 40 Mukte from the Ardas too... Well thats what the notorious Sikh Missionary Colleges have been preaching since ages...that 40 Mukte never existed...and now this has been implemented by even more notorious missionaries (influenced by Inder Ghagga)..... What a Shame! Interestingly they have adopted the Dohira which was proposed by SikhRi in their controverisal syllabus and for which they have been criticised in the panthic circles. All these organisations are hand in glove...their main aim is to disintegrate the fabric of Sikhi... Though one part of me is totally disgusted at reading this news, the other part is happy that these people are self declared Guru Nindaks and self declared walk-outs from the panth...They can call themselves as Ghaggiyes, Kale Afghaniyes, Prof Darshaniyes, Missionariyes, Martin Lutheriyes or whatever, but they will not be called Sikhs from now on... Gurdwara is a place where Guru's teachings are followed...The place in Finland has ceased to be called a Gurdwara...Efforts should be made to bring the Maharaj Saroop from there with full respect!

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...-&Itemid=64

Sharing this informative link: http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...h&Itemid=63

http://santsipahi.wordpress.com/2009/04/03...of-word-sirdar/

http://santsipahi.wordpress.com/2009/04/01...h-bhindranwale/

My post was entirely about Dr Jaggi and his claim about Bhai Mani Singh letter. I didnt intend to judge your stance on Sri Dasam Granth....Good to know about your efforts.

Dr. Rattan Singh Jaggi never used the word 'fake' for the letter as has been forced upon his arguments by the likes of Daljit Singh, Jagjit Singh, JS Mann and many Kale Afghanis. This is also evident from the text which is quoted here. He is an academician and he made his study and gave his 'views' without jumping to any harsh conclusions. And all the points raised by Jaggi have been academically rebutted by Dr. Harbhajan Singh, a noted historian on Sri Dasam Granth. His counter arguments can be read here http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...-&Itemid=64 P.S For those who are so keen on taking Jaggi's words as holy should read the following news. http://www.punjabheritage.org/content/view/798/29/ "In the 26-page introduction, the author (Jaggi) has raised a question whether the hymns in Guru Granth Sahib, devoted to Guru Nanak Dev, were authored by him (the first Sikh Master) or his co-authors also made some contribution."

online steek: http://www.dasamgranth.org/dasamgranth/translations/ online search engines: http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?c=t http://searchgurbani.com/megasrch.php?Param=punjabi

Dara Singh, Dont just copy paste the views of Darshan Ragi, Kala Afghana and other missionaries here. Never in history Sri Dasam Granth was called by the name Bachittar Natak! This is another misinformation propagated by uneducated missionaries. First find out what is the difference between Bachittar Natak and Sri Dasam Granth. You would obviously not call gurbani as literature unless you have some kind of a malice intent.

Thanks for posting this. Amazing Keertan by Shiromani Ragi Bhai Balbir Singh Ji as always. Bhai Sahib gets all respect for confronting Guru Nindaks like Sarna and Darshan Ragi....If not for Sarna's support Darshan Ragi would not have dared to spell venom against Gurbani in every Delhi Gurdwara he goes to. Shame on them!

The above article has failed miserably to understand the essence of the original writeup it is referring to. Especially when it claims that "The author goes on to argue that the Sikh Rehat Maryada only applies to gurdwaras and not Takhats" The original article does not argue that Sikh Rehat Maryada only applies to gurdwaras and not Takhats. Here the original article http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...h&Itemid=63 Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is a non-issue and had never been an issue throughout Sikh history (Read John Malcolm's account of maryada of Gurmatta that he witnessed in Amritsar in early 1800s)......Only the detractors would come up with such issues and excuses...

Here are the names of some of the committee members of Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Model Town Jalandhar President: Gursher Singh Secretary: Surinderjit Singh Gwalior Joint Secretary: Amarjit Singh Walia Phone of the Gurdwara Sahib: 0181-2440308

Inder Singh Ghagga, a famous communist in the garb of Sikhi who openly supports Kala Afghana and his ideology, doesnt believe in Naam Simran, Dasam Bani has been invited by Gurudwara Sri Guru Singh Sahib, Model Town Jalandhar on Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's Gurpurab. Akal Takhat Sahib in 2006 had taken cognizance of his Guru Nindya and issued a hukamnama saying that "Until Ghagga appears before Akal Takhat and and seeks an apology for his anti-Gurmat writings, he and his supporters should not be allowed to speak from any Gurdwara Sahib or Panthic stage" One can read the Akal Takhat Sahib hukamnama here.. http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/2839/2006-10-21.html Its time to implement that hukamana and stop this Guru Nindak. Singhs are requested to contact the committee of the Gurdwara and convey the contents of the hukamnama...

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option...a&Itemid=77 ...a lesson to the likes of Prof Darshan Ragi who are hell bent upon misleading the Sangat with their skewed ideologies

http://www.patshahi10.org has been revamped!

Dr. Darshan Singh, Punjab Univ, Chandigarth is different from Prof Darshan Singh (ragi)

As Mike Singh said the best way to understand this is by reading the actual Sodhak Committee Report. Rest, what XYZ says is irrelevant.

---------------------- Approved by the 5 Singh Sahiban at Sri Akal Takht Sahib on 27-11-2006 Mata No. 2 Some mischievous miscreants have been carrying out misleading parchar about Dasam Granth through the media, whereas Panthik scholars heeding the edict of Sri Akal Takht Sahib from 14 May 2000 have remained silent, after deep consideration the 5 Singh Sahibans have decided that Panthik scholars should refute the baseless claims of these mischievous miscreants using examples from Sikh history and the divine light of Gurmat. Guru Rakha (Joginder Singh) Jathedar ------------------- you can find more documents/hukamnamas here... http://www.santsipahi.org/patshahi10/enter.html