dass

I could say this thread was started by vhaegurujikifateh, are you hired by them to do their bidding ? No I generally find the debate interesting hehehehehe, amazing to see the lengths people go to, to malign others as anit panthic, dushts etc, sad but it is common now... the thread actually relates to akj.org, a site i do visit alongwith tapoban.org, gurmatbibek.com, sikhnet forums, keertan.net when it used to have one, i find forums interesting as you learn about the nature of our current issues, how our young and old sikhs handle issues etc... so all good... sadly the future looks like are becoming a more talibanlistic kind of religion where discourse won't be allowed, amazing that only 50 odd years ago we could have great scholars sit and discuss, present their finding etc, that could never happen now, scholars would probably get beaten up or worse, it is sad...

Do some home work yourself and read sikh rehat maryada. It talks about taechings and utterances of ten Gurus and kahnde bate da amrit. GPS, again you seem to be twisting what I have written, yes the SRM does state about teaching and utterances and khandea bare da amrit, I agree there is not sikhi without amrit, we all know that, but from every thing I have read on this forum when we had debates about mixed marriages in the g'wara, the one condition everyone wrote about was the non sikhs accepting guru granth sahib as there guru, no one ever mentioned dasam granth or anything else, so my point before you accuse me of diversion again is that generally accepted definition of a sikh is that they believe in Guru Granth Sahib as their guru, that is why those with nakli deh dhari gurus are not accepted as sikhs.. I hope my point is clear... phew hard work making a point clear to those who wish to twist it into making you look like you don't believe in the basics of sikhi...

where did i say dasam granth isn't important, i just stated that as per SRM that is the qualification of a sikh, not diversion tactics trying to understand why you hate your fellow gursikhs so much ? i never mentioned darshan singh as your fellow gursikh... also did the panth rename him to lal hehehehe, never saw that in the hukamnama or is that something you were given the authority to change ? do you hate all posters and admin on akj.org ? or just those who don't agree with you 100%... can you get me the quote from SRM where it states that ? (I did say I could be wrong), I like the way you edit your posts after you have written them, how do you that ?? I thought once submitted that was it.. oh i never saw the old edit button on your own posts...

You know what the other day I was talking to an old friend and he mentioned that a friend of ours had past away, this person had everything to live for, jetted around etc, but he is no more, perhaps we should worry about the future less and get on with the present, i've read many post about peoples saying this will and that will happen, everything that happens, it happens in his will, why worry about it ? can we change it no, as they say live in the moment, japp naam, read gurbani and hopefully when the time comes we won't be taken by the jamn and will be greeted by the shaeed singhs who come to collect those who have done kamai... it is iinteresting to see how today nature has shown it's power by grounding all of europe, if that is a sign of things to come and we will have to revert back to pind lifestyles perhaps we should learn to understand the basic requirements of how to live on the other the hand it could be just a moment wipeout and we all go.. who know's hey.. .sache pathsah does and hes says japp simran like there ain't no tomorrow, hum adami ek dhammee

I would say the above post from harpreet singh, clarifies what akj.org stance is... you go on about not diverting the thread but the title of the thread is somone on akj forum support prof darshan singh ? I would again say so what ? can you prove your case in a court of law that the acutal admins also support him and guilty of betrayal to the panth ? I believe as harpreet singh has written people here don't know how to write or debate, I would encourage you to look at what you have written and see whether that is in line with the purpose of your thread ? admin prob should close the thread as there has been clarification from akj.org on the matter, the rest is just gossip mongering and accusations, it is a shame that we steep so low.. show me the facts in your accusation and then you have a case, like this thread there are opposing views on the actual thread heading... i'm sure on this site there are those who disagreed with the chukcing out of panth on darshan singhs case, GPS you do make statements with such announcement, it come's across like you have some kind of certifcate from the panth to denounce who is a sikh and who isn't, remember a sikhs definition is they believe in juguu juguu atal Guru Granth Sahib ji, unless that has changed to include dasam granth.. I could be wrong... please learn the baisc concept of tolerance and forgiveness, one day you and I will die, it is a reality, let us not go with so much hate for fellow gursikh brothers, no good will come of it, on one hand I like your passion but on the other hand I find you to be rude to everyone who disagrees with you.. perhaps it is you who need's to open your eyes to bigger issues in panth...

Ferries still going ? alongwith euro start ? alternatively they could do ardas, the power of ardas would shift that volcanic ash no problem ....

I was just talking to someone the other day and their first questions was why have this issue become such a hughe issue all of a sudden, even thought I explained the ins and outs as much as I knew, they were like but who actually read dasam granth other than our daily baniya ? I was like well prob only about 10% of the panth if that ? he then went onto say to me that we all know that we respect baniya of dasam granth, bhai gurdas ji vars, bhani nand lal jis swaivyea but the we only have one Guru, which is Guru granth sahib, again I concurred with him on this, so he said for me I bow down to Guru granth sahib and Guru granth sahib only, so why all the rulaaa about dual parakash of both granths ? he goes to me than never happened in the uk before has it ? to my knowledge it never did maybe some nihangs might off, but taksal never used to or akj, then he said to me that why would they chuck on prof darshan singh on this issues, i explained to him the gala that he had said and the way he had handled the peshi scenario, he was like okay perhaps he made a mistake there but to chuck him out of panth ?? i was like well those are the rulese, he goes we allow those that enough damage to panth to be like choudris of the panth but those that made sacrifices for it over the years get chucked out... Now the point of emailing the above is that many in the panth are not even aware of this whole debate ? they worry more about their local community and their children straying from sikhi, but at the moment it like the be all and end all with some, of course you are going to get those who support darshan singh, that always happens, just as you got many who support badal, makkar, etc, you will get those who won't hear a word of discussion on probably the most controversial aspect of dasam granth, chittarpriaykan, there was a thread on this site with the english translations, not sure if it's here anymore but many just dissed that translation as one man's twisted view ? i did read it and found it hard to comprehend, I've also read the new punjabi version that has gone up and see a massive difference in translations, which one is correct ? panth has done the right thing by saying we won't do anything but the problem you have it those who have gone to far either way, dual parkash is not allowed but many are doing it ? what will panth do about that ? there are those who have distrubted keertan progs when someone quoted dasam granth ? what will panth do about them ? You get my drift, it's all well and good giving out hukamnamea but the reality is implementation ? that is the problem with panth at the moment, we close our eyes to those issues and worry about some posters on akj.org supporting darshan singh... make's you wonder what will become of the panth.., there is a hughe need for the way we do things to be assessed and corrected with consulation in the form of sarbat khalsa...

Seriously what a poor excuse, i support sikh channel, i pay a monthly subscription (direct debit if sky football pulled the plug on a game I would sue them !! heheheheh sikh channel sought it out.. money shouldnt be a problem, chalo wait for the recording !!! was good though ...

umm i've read a few threads on there and for the most part they seem to put both views forward, perhaps they don't allow debate on specific baniya from dasam granth, but that is up to them, just as this site also stops certain threads etc, i've seen many ask the questiong about sant ji being alive and those threads do get stopped and censored, have your posts being to pro dasam granth, have you tried to justify everything per guru granth sahib ? or are these posts you put just the pro dasam granth views from panthic.org ? whether they allow them or not is their right, if you don't want to go there than don't. The dasam granth debate has gone on for too long there is so much more wrong with the panth at the moment but everyone has gone quiet on those issues, badal and makkar controlled sgpc for one, akal takhat maahaan taaa ??? Sant Ranjit singh dhadrianvala's diwan highlighted much that is wrong with our panth, false allegations, lack of pyar and willingless to listen to a different point of view on an issue, those views aren't nothing new either, they been their for centuries as well, whether I or you agree is neither here or there, the fundamental questions is whether akal takhat sahib are implementing their own hukamnamea?? I don't wish to here about who is panthic and who is not, one side claim they are the other do the same, being panthic is about your actions, your rehni behni, your sikhi, this site used be a good site but all I see now is hate hate hate, before we had some good discussions here but now we have people dictating, again I could leave and not bother but it is important to present the none bias view, perhaps when posing on akj.org you should try and put your point across with the aggresive tone you present here... remember mitha bolan can win over many...guru nanank dev ji did this time and time again...

why cut it off, really enjoyed, bhai sahib was just starting to talk about the sake of 1978 and cut off ?? could have waited till it was suitable place, a start of new topic or something, or just waited till he finished don't think we would have gone on much longer, it was almost 12pm, for all their hard work, sikh channel do make some amazing blunders... sorry to be blunt but it is true... come on sikh channel be more professional... chardi kalan...

Veer khalsitan ji, any documentation relating to that declaration ?? just wondering as have heard other's mention it but never seen any letter etc, I'm not starting a debate on whether or not you are correct by the way... also there are many sants who would easily fall into the list, sant attar singh ji, baba nand singh ji, the list could on and on but the question of a leader is something which I think the panth has lacked, someone who could have set things in the foundation of sikhi, so today we wouldn't be run by badal and his puppets, someone who would have given the khalsa back their rightful place in running of the gurudwara, Yes sant ji did various stuff but sadly for the panth he wasn't around long enough to change it all, and the politicians took over... nothing new there hey !!!

Veer jis, how far away from a blackberry beta, I would happily test it for you.. plesae let us know... great sevaa.. i have had a look at development but it is way over my head !!!

The problem is simple if DDT acknowledge his shaeedi by doing a smagam they go against the bachan of Baba Thukur singh, if they don't do one.. like other's have said it is sad that after 26years one has never been done.. i agree with the sentiment that those who do ardaasaa saying sant ji is in chardi kalan, should be careful, unless they know first hand and have seen him, to do ardas on someone else's bachan is wrong.. it is sad that after so long we still debate sant jis shaeedi.. we should learn to move on an look at what is actually happening in the panth and follow sant jis advice of doing sacha parachar and encouraging our fellow sikhs to take amrit and become guru walea... not bicker about whether sant ji will come back.. what has he to come back to now ?? a panth which is divided ?? controlled by politicans ?? etc etc...

for a minute there I thought you were saying sant ji is going to be on sikh channel !!!! get the subject heading right will ya !!!... yah the vids should be good quality.. we need to get out of poor quality old stuff... also would love to sant sujjan singh vids on sikh channell if possible, gyani amolak singhs keertan from soho road days would be great, anything where our pyarea gursikhs had jeevan would be great...

then why didn't the DTT, nihang, sant samaj ?? all kick up a fuss the last time it was done some of those writings were removed ??? obviously there wasn't this do or die attitude back then... Guru Sahib never compiled the granth - FACT... so the problem will always remain what is Guru sahibs bani and what isn't... there must have been a reason why they accepted the committees findings ?? I find it typical of the attitude today that has been instilled in some of the forum contributors... this can't be done, can't be so... the only thing that is beyond reproach is Guru Granth Sahib everything else isn't authentic as we would like it to be.... reading some of the translations in the dasam granth section which have been posted today raises some questions for me, as I hadn't read them, I couldn't find them anywhere.. had read some of dasam granth translation on websites and the baniya which I read didn't raise as half as many questions than the one's i've read today... still awaiting your views in that section...

Manni74 post is off interest if they managed to have something like that all those years ago.. why not now ?? is a such a bad thing to have.. are we that rigid ??

couldn't agree more chakarvarti... i like yourself have seen these conference, meetings since 1984, seen g'wara taken over fought over shut down by the police etc, seen some people get seriously wealthy, seen bogus collections etc.. really does make you sick... not a sikh... perhaps one day we will actually see all those who have spoken over the weekend at both conferences actually do something very constructive for the panth and show the world the last quarter of a century was not a waste... the debatea and mattea they pass here have no affect in india anyway !!! they still do what suits them... crazzzzzzyyyyyy world hey !!!!

hahahaha someone asked me the same thing... why am i listening to the bhagra show.... amazing to see that y'day event was panth ekath and so was today's ?? um to who is the tru panth ekath ?? or is that word used too much ??? what is panth really ??? all these meetings have been like differect jathebandiya getting together and deciding they are the panth ????

who is this guy talking now on akaash radio.. he is really funny... i like the way he is saying to everyone.. fine we have these meetings, do jaikara... why don't we spend time educating ourselves on all matters... i agree with him.. education is the key and not to be a follower etc... he is a bit OTT but getting the point across about the fact education !!!! though he is enticing violence by saying take action.. i would be more careful with this view... if the panth is only capable of violence between themselves and not able to sit and discuss these issues then it is a sad day... the reality is nothing has changed in the last 25 years... people are still obessed power, control, we own the g'wara ??? what ??? g'wara belong to sangat.. sad to think people think they own the g'wara....

where's the live broadcast on akaash, it was interesting... amazing how yesterday you heard one view and today you hear the other hehehehehe

TOUCHE HEHEHEHEHEH

your really are a simpleton.. i'm saying why are we fighting over the dates ?? why not just agree on one and get on with it... histroically related of course.. and as for my b'day... i don't celebrate it...another year lost as I see it !!!! your really are a simpleton.. i'm saying why are we fighting over the dates ?? why not just agree on one and get on with it... histroically related of course.. and as for my b'day... i don't celebrate it...another year lost as I see it !!!!

Okay simple question when was Gurn Nanak Dev ji actually born ??? in accordance with the our calendar in the west ??? Was it november or April ??? let's get it right is the date really that important or the fact we celebrate guru sahibs message ??? guru ji said the day is dhan which I meet you... dhan soh vilaa jith mai satguru milhayaa... we really need to stop pretending we know which calendar is correct... historians show different dates for so much in sikhi...who do we believe the babea, the missionaires, the scholars ?? The theory this bikarami calendar of this came from guru jis time is incorrect there is a difference of number of years compared to bikrami... do your research ! there is a thread on this forum about it... also i haven't done all the khoj.. i am learning.. i am not claiming I know everything... bhandea khok dhil har rohj... guru mehar karea we can learn to learn in a peaceful manner without the vulgar language.. "effin"... fikaa bol viguchanaa sun moorakh man ajaan || Harsh words bring only grief. Listen, O foolish and ignorant mind! naanak fikai boliai than man fikaa hoe || O Nanak, speaking insipid words, the body and mind become insipid. fiko fikaa sadheeai fikae fikee soe || He is called the most insipid of the insipid; the most insipid of the insipid is his reputation. fikaa dharageh satteeai muhi thhukaa fikae paae || The insipid person is discarded in the Court of the Lord, and the insipid one's face is spat upon. Do you want any more quotes ??? rasanaa fikaa bolanaa nith nith hoe khuaar || and who speaks insipid words with his tongue, is ruined, again and again. fikaa moorakh aakheeai paanaa lehai sajaae ||1|| The insipid one is called a fool; he is beaten with shoes in punishment. ||

the funniest thing about this debate is that the one perso who actually stated what was said etc is being told that you got it all wrong.. perception i guess is the key... the reality is sikhs worldwide could never have ekta due to the way they have all been programmed to accept the truth as per their baba or leader etc... if we actually did khoj etc many questions would be answered.. many truths would be understood but sadly we are too busy being manipulated by others, taksal, akj, whatever... when something is wrong say it, to do ardas for sant ji being alive is wrong, to do nindiya of any gurmukh is wrong, to do parkash of dasam granth on par to Dhan guru granth sahib jee is wrong... the calendar issue seems to be a politcal one and I don't think it really matters on the basis everyone does what they want to do... my point is simple I have been a member of this board for some time and all I see is a lack of education and respect amongst member's nowadays, also we really need to stop the abuse.. we talk about doing nindiya etc but with the mouth we read gurbani and the mind we read gurbani we write such abuse.. come on khalsa ji let us adhere to sache pathshahsa simplest of hukams... Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki fateh...

May sache pathshah take you to his eternal home.. you have showns us youth of today what panthic means.. you have shown the panth what it means to be a sikh living in the west.. your death will never be in vain.. you are hero for me... many a time I have probably turned a blind eye.. you have shown me that is not the way of a sikh.. may guru sahib bless your family to accept the bhana that has come before them.. may the panth honour such a hero.. you are a true shaeed in the sense it is mean't to be... a selfless death... protecting an innocent victim.. not thinking of the consequences.. brother you remind of the great gursikhs of the past who saved the ishat of the hindu girls from the mughals.. may your soul find peace and live in eternity in guru jis charan.... bole soh nihall... sat sri akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllll... dhan guru, dhan guru pyare...