jasleen k

if he was trying to escape, of course his close chelas would lie, wouldn't they? how many burned corpses have you seen? they can't be easily identified. maybe by dental records, etc. burn victims in hospitals are often misidentified for this reason. pictures on tv are not evidence. it's all part of a plot by the gov't to hide him so he doesn't have to testify against him. so maybe they found a couple of mona thugs with long jail histories, and said, "we can make you heroes, all you have to do is burn this fat old guy and we'll pretend he's phoola". wouldn't that be pretty normal behaviour for indian police/gov't? we hear all the time about these kind of scandals... some people think bhindranwale is still alive hiding somewhere. i mean come on. anythign is possible, right?

what country are you in?

ooh, sorry, i didn't realize you lived in india. yes, i'm just a stupid american who knows nothing about the country that half my family lives in. sorry to have bothered you with my stupidity. so if these criminals were not truely killed,, how do you know phoola was? all we saw was a burnt up corpse. it could be anyone, right. maybe he's still alive! :o

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh! hello indian sikh. i am just a sikh. you should know that many many indian sikhs DO support khalistan. however, because the democratic government of india is only democratic to those who support them, those indian sikhs who wish for sikhs to be treated equally are either murdered or forced to flee their mother country. this is a very sad thing for sikhs everywhere, including canada, brittain, and america. so we sikhs who are NOT living in india, who are FREE to raise our voices, we like to do that, to help our indian brothers and sisters who are not allowed to speak for themselves. your question is kind of like asking why the dali lama wants a free tibet when he lives in india. we obviously tibetain protesters are murdered in china. and everyone in the world understands this. the situation is the same for sikhs in india. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh!

phoola was a nihung who went bad, collaborated with the punjab police during '80's/90's attacks on sikhs. was known for raping and torturing his victims. he had been arrested and was in jail awaiting trial for his crimes when two heroes of the panth, who were also in jail, jumped him and burned him alive.

Jasleen ji, HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE TO REPEAT ONE THING AGAIN AND AGAIN??? Bhai Navtej Singh was in jail because he beat up Shiv Senas leader (Shiv Sena is a Hindu Fanatical organisation which is against all religions in India except Hinduism) For this he was in jail. Don't know about the other (Harchand Singh). you don't have to repeat it over and over, and i'm not sure why you are. if you don't know why Harchand Singh was in prison, you don't have to answer. someone must know. and i'm sure everyone knows who shiv sena is, but thanks for the refresher. i agree completely. i don't have any ladoos... are eggless cookies ok?

no one is calling them criminals for their seva. HOWEVER, they were already in prison BEFORE they did any seva. at that time, they were simply mona criminals. now suddenly, because of a crime of opportunity, they are heroes. and that's fine, i just wonder why they were in prison. no one disagrees that phoola was deserving of punishment. please try not to jump to conclusions.

they better hope guru ji agrees with you.

i see. so you would condemn a marriage between two amritdhari sikhs if they were of different races? can you tell me why?

and the other sevadar?

Why do you aim to cause friction in a thread that has been created to help others? Both of these youth grew up in a Sikhi enviroment, Navtej Singh was a sardar at a point, granted they have made mistakes in the past, but it takes real guts and determination to punish a paapi. Only someone with love for sikhi would take such a step. Read about the motives for punishing Ajit Phoola, then your questions will be answered, as to whether this was did for the "fame" or for Panthic reasons. The fact that Navtej Singh said "Jihnay Sikha day bachay jionday saaray, ohnu ajj assi saar ditta" meaning "he who set alight the kids of Sikhs, has today been set alight by us" should put your mind at ease. The crimes committed by Ajit Phoola are unmentionable on a public forum, the 2 youth should be applauded for carrying out this act, not looked down upon as criminals. If you strongly feel against donating, then dont, no-one is forcing you. thanks veer, i appreciate the history refresher. i was familiar with ajit phoola before he was lit on fire. however, these sevadars are new to me, so i was wondering what they were doing in that same jail as a child killer?

no one is taking anything away from them. we're asking questions about them. is that acceptable? to learn about someone before opening our wallets? if i ever have the courage to do something good for the panth, i pray to waheguru that i will have the humility not to turn it into a media circus or a free meal ticket afterwards.

force veer... this is a discussion forum. anything posted is open for discussion. you should consider that when posting. second, i think it's perfectly valid to know the full story of which criminals we want to support with our donations and which we do not. why will no one say what the two were in jail for anyway? did they get purposely captured in order to do this seva? that might be a bit higher ranking in the "who gets my money" list than if they were, say, run of the mill thugs who saw an opportunity for fame and took it. third, i will not keep my money to myself, as that would be anti-gurmat. rather i will share with those who help the panth in an ongoing manner. killing someone who is already in jail, and no longer a threat to the community is less important in my opinion than aiding those who have been abandoned by government and panth. so i guess the orphans and widows of shaheeds will get my money, rather than some middle class punjabi-american.

didn't those two get arrested for crimes unrelated to the freedom struggle, unrelated to sikhi at all? so really, their families are having hardship because they're criminals, not because of what they did to phoola, right? i mean, what were their original crimes? are they at all related to their seva to the panth? please forgive me for asking, but if we have to choose between giving money to those whose hardship is CAUSED by the freedom struggle and those whose hardship is caused by being criminals, shouldn't we support those who suffer for Sikhi first?

can you give more info? how old? dialects of which language from which region? bhai vir singh ji is a very thorough scholar and would have mentioned a shift in colour between dialects if it were known then, right? mahan kosh by bhai kahan singh nabha ALSO gives the meaning of neela as blue. i'm not trying to disagree with you, i just want to understand from where this information is coming.

i disagree veerji. sikh comes from sanskrit sishya, which is a disciple. a disciple must have a guru. only those who follow guru ji are sikhs. one may be a learner without a teacher. but no one can be a sikh without a guru.

i think your friend is pulling your leg. neela doesn't mean green to kashmiri muslims. and even if it did, i don't believe Guru ji was writing in kashmiri dialect. Guru Gobind Singh ji describes Shiva as "neel kanth". are you suggesting that Shiva has a green throat? but all the idols show blue, right? oh, and Bhai Vir Singh ji says in Mahan Kosh, p. 381, that neela rang is a blue colour, like the sky but darker. maybe the sky in kashmir is green! :D

creepy picture.

the 2012 thing isn't "crap", it's the end of the Mayan calendar. for those who did not take american history, the Mayan were a fairly advanced native civilization in mexico and central america several hundred years ago. they were advanced in mathematics and astronomy, and developed a sort of "perpetual calender". that calender ends on 21 dec, 2012. only in the last couple of years has the mainstream population started talking about this in the media. contrary to popular media hysteria, according to the Mayan tradition, the end of the calender is NOT the end of the world. it is, instead, the end of an age, a "yug" we'd say in indic traditions. the idea is that the current age is corrupt, and the next age will be more spiritually advanced. so the idea that the world as we know it will end and a new age of different ethics, different behaviour of people, etc will begin is not the sole domain of hindus and sikhs, it exists across cultures, across the world. :LOLz:

both people you described need to try harder to follow their Guru. just like all of us. as far as i know, the rules for the 5 k's are only written in the rehat maryada, and in descriptions of the first amrit sanchar.

i think the only safe option is for sikhs to all wear gloves and face masks when going anywhere other than the gurdwara. but wait, even at the gurdwara, there might be monay, or worse, people who took amrit from the WRONG PEOPLE!!! :o

1 cup unsalted butter, softened 1 1/2 cups light brown sugar 1/2 cup granulated sugar 2 teaspoons vanilla extract 3 teaspoons of EnrG egg replacer 4 tablespoons of warm water 2 cups all-purpose flour 1/4 teaspoon salt 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 1 - 10oz bag toffee candy bits 1 cup oatmeal 1 1/2 cups grated coconut (you can use the package kind of you want) 1 1/3 cups sliced almonds In a stand mixer, mix butter and sugars on medium speed until fluffy. Mix the egg replacer and water well in a small bowl, then add that and the vanilla extract and mix until creamy. In a separate bowl, mix flour, salt, and baking soda. Add these dry ingredients to the butter and sugar mixture, using low speed. Then add the toffee bits, oatmeal, coconut and almonds on low speed, scraping the bowl often. You can mix them by hand if you want, but I think the mixer is fine. Drop 2 tablespoons of dough about 2 inches apart on a cookie sheet. You'll want to line the cookie sheet with parchment paper first, because these cookies will stick to the pan otherwise. Bake for 10 minutes at 350 degrees and cool on a wire rack. I use all organic ingredients (except for the toffee candy!), and try to buy local whenever possible. i really think it helps the taste, not to mention the environment and our health! EnerG egg replacer can be found here: http://www.ener-g.com/store/detail.aspx?se...cat=8&id=97 There is no good substitute for the egg replacer. It is a magical staple ingredient in my house.

why? i'm a keski wearing bibi, and i'm white. so if a white person did the same to me, would that be racist? it was wrong, ignorant, abusive, harassment, etc... but i think we should not play the "race card" unless we're actually targetted for our race. sorry, i didn't mean to detract from your post, and no offense. i'd probably be running after them too! :gatka-singhni:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7456528.stm maybe they have more info Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahegur Ji Ki Fateh that article is actually about gas masks, rather than motorbike helmets. and a quick google search shows they could have saved their money and bought an israeli one, which are designed to fit around beards. note: i'm not an intellectual, i'm just a moorakh with google.

no, you can't go to the gym because the showers are jootha.