HSD*^

i wonder what dera followers do to their dead leaders.

they act like this to satisfy their need to offend sikhi. well now they know that outside hindustan they are nothing but slumdogs. well done to the austrian sangat. first poola singh, now this guy. hope the rest of the year is just as fruitful.

lol

muslim authors from the region often portray the sikh rule as a joke and a period of death and lawlessness. yet they do not take into account that pakistan is just as bad. as for peshawar all i have to say that the article is a lie - to some extent. at first many people welcomed the sikh rule over the tribal conflicts of old. but then maharaja ranjit singh (in his infinite wisdom!) appointed an italian to rule peshawar called Avitabile. this man had served under napoleon but became a british agent when he came to the punjab. ranjit singh was always impressed with foreigners and often trusted their lies and hyperbole over his own sikh commandeers. he gave him rule of peshawar after he had done other things for the maharajah. avitabile had no respect for non-europeans or their way of life. he built or took over a palace and took many local girls and women as concubines. he used dogras and other non-sikh troops to rule with an iron fist. a sikh ruler would have known these actions would have sown unrest and dissatisfaction among the populace and made the work of the soldiers and commandeers in afghanistan harder but he did it nonetheless. the money he gained from ruling was transferred to europe as he was not interested in staying in the punjab. he offered the british ridiculous amounts of help when they went to afghanistan. god knows what else he told them. so all in all, i say it was the italians fault and had nothing to do with sikhs. also, the british army destroyed or took over a lot of buildings they thought were sikh regimental HQs, regardless of whether they were or not.

oh dear. another of those quasi-informative articles that british journalists write in order to sell their friend's books. another leader like her and the panth is done for.

good idea. as for the pakis its all about what people can be bothered to do. like it wouldnt be hard for me to pretend to be muslim, create a few false facebook pages, rent an expensive car through my cousins dodgy car business and chase after muslim girls all day and sell drugs all night. but i'm not going to do that. if only there was a way we could get all the pakis in britain to piss off to canuckistan and let our giant muscle bound colonial cousins teach them a lesson. do scroungers get more benefits over there?

indians voted for congress and sonia gandhi, not just manmohan singh.

what a pindu.

well, if its true that they want justice and are pro-self determination, we could come to some sort of compromise (sikhs voting libdem in the national, ukip in the euroelection and green in the local elections?). it would help if some sikh organisations started to send out feelers to these parties for better links between our community and those parties. labour and the tories probably want to keep hindustan sweet to line their own pockets as its a gateway to 3rd world resources and labour.

nah, if there arent enough singhs willing to do it we'll have to build robots instead. arnie with a nihang turban anyone? oh and pl2009, the reason your not wasting your time is because you cant answer my points and want to turn this into a dragged out argument. so take your 'rep' and go 'run ****' somewhere.

i heard somewhere that UKIP, green party and the lib dems were pro-justice for 84. does anyone know if thats true and what the main parties views on khalistan and 84 are?

personally i think the nod came from sonia gandhi. the west has tried to intervene and basically been told to bugger off. the fact the final push came during the elections adds a smokescreen in the local region.

lol read all my posts and the ones on the 'fall of elam' thread, i dont think the best minds have gone. there are tens of thousands out there who could be army officers, honourable politicians, sants, honest businessmen, scientists etc but they dont know it and life wont give them the opportunities to find out. that is what we need to change - give them every opportunity, protect them from the things that poison their minds and hinder there development, and give them hope. i would also like to add that general shabeg singh's personal story is a great inspiration: a brilliant mind who took every opportunity life offered and he knew the importance of trying hard. he was also well educated and developed a wide range of qualities - something the youth today could try and emulate.

yeah he's right to a point. with sant ji and general shabeg singh dead it was hard for the movement to recover. bhindranwale could mobilise the masses and was a godsend as a religous leader. shabeg singh knew the hindustani war machine inside out and helped to plan the defence of the golden temple. if he had survived the 84-93 war would have been very different. as they both were killed, it was up to the panth to replace them - but there was no one of their calibre. yes, some people were good leaders but on a local level rather than what those two could have done.

i dont think we want people converting for the sake of marriage. but hey, every one has a valid opinion.

nice ideas. but there are only 20000 people on this forum. and that figure includes people from all over the world. without sikh organisations, institutions or gurudwaras doing anything, none of what you say will happen. first we need to organise and plan. achieve that and the aims you mentioned above will come easily enough.

i dont think anyone knows where kps gill has buggered off to.

i dont care what any of you say, its not 2009, its the year 310!!!! hahaha lol.

genetics is such a wide topic it would take a semester to teach you, so it would be hard to give an 'executive summary'. but i can at least explain why i mentioned genetics earlier. imagine its the dawn before the battle of Gujrat. the sikh forces are outnumbered and the rest of the sikh army is too far away to rescue them. some sikhs think 'sod this, i'm going home, we lost the war' and off they go. other sikhs say 'bloody goreh invading my country, i'll fight to the last to protect my religion, culture and nation' and stay to fight the battle. its a defeat and most of the sikh soldiers who stayed are wiped out. those who fled though were more likely to survive. so who gets to pass their genes onto the next generation? the tens of thousands of brave men who died in the two wars on the battlefield or the ones who fled in the dark? the british launch a shoot to kill policy on all akhalis and khalsa officers after the war ends. why is this? to prevent decent organisation of resistance and to prevent what they knew being passed onto the next generation. next is the indian mutiny. do you think the cowards from the anglo-sikh wars want to fight? of course not, they want to preserve their lives and prefer their wife's embrace to cold nights, marching and bloodshed. epigenetics says that consequences of events in one's life are passed on subconciously to the descendants. more sikhs die in the mutiny fighting for the british. their children have no fathers. they grow up with no chance of learning what their father and his grandfather and so on knew. the children who's fathers run rather than fight are more likely to do well as they have a more complete family unit and are influenced by their father's life experience. the social structure in punjab begins to change. a martial minority who once ruled all are now just farmers and imperial policemen. once each village was a minifort, each gurudwara a citadel, each home had men and women trained in the art of war with the relevant weapons. now, the british have levelled the village defences and plundered the weapons. the khalsa has no teeth. those with some martial spirit end up in the british indian army and fighting wars all over the place. the not so martial sikhs are running businesses and getting up to other stuff. WW1 and WW2 start and finish. thousands more sikhs die. more children grow up without fathers where as the ones who stayed get more power in their hands (an interesting parrallel is the change in roman society during the Punic wars). then there is partition. after all the fighting we did to keep the british out, and then all the fighting we ended up doing for them, it all seems pointless as sikhs still end up losing out. in post-independence east punjab there is general apathy for fighting as it seems it doesnt work. there are no sikh leaders who know what there doing. its become ingrained in people that fighting doesnt work as we lose and the leaders are corrupt. in 84, we realise that things have got so bad we need to fight. but after a century of war and death coupled with no way of raising decent leaders we find ourselves in a desperate position. as a result a lot of the panth turns the other way and try to keep their heads down until the war is over, due to preconditioned attitudes and subconcious thoughts. the above may not make sense to some of you. others think its too pessimistic. but there is always a good side to science. what our enemies do to us also applies to them. we killed indira gandhi, so the hindustanis couldnt be led by her. if we had got her earlier, her son may not have got to the position of power he did. if we wipe out the rss leadership, they cant replace them. they can try, and every day the rss footsoldiers learn a little more from their leaders and are closer to being able to think for themselves. but like i said if we take out our enemies we will break their will and pacify them like they try to do to us. also we know the problems the panth faces. leaders can be raised and taught. people can learn martial arts and soldiery. we can create institutions to pass on what we know to the next generation. a nation can be given hope. epigenetics works in a positive way too. but it involves us laying the foundations for the coming generations. so thats why i mentioned genetics earlier, but maybe i didnt make it clear: its not the only reason we face these problems. just one of the reasons.

its all about the gurudwaras. in my local gurudwara a few gursikhs protested against the committees stupid lack of action and ended up being escorted out of the gurudwara by police for 'trespassing'! then moneh dont come to the gurudwara in large numbers because they get ridiculed by the keshdhari. now they hang out at the youth club all bitter and resentful. what a joke. if a few intelligent panthic gursikhs formed some kind of british gurudwara committee maybe we could turn our community around. but most of the committees want to run the gurudwaras like giant cornershops and divide the sangat to mask their own crimes.

god people dont really understand genetics. it isnt just about height,weight and some mumbo-jumbo hitler said. it is influenced by environmental factors, life events of our ancestors, what gets passed on etc. saying genetics is dumb because chinese win gold medals just shows that your idea of genetics is based on predetermined prejudice. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes...hostgenes.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics http://epigenome.eu/en/1,1,0 http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/plus/sfg...epigenetics.dtl

1. lol i'm still laughing 2. the bbc is not run by the govt. 3. its a shame you think so. 4. err no they dont. not yet anyway. the future will be interesting though. what will the mighty canuck sikhs do being caught between muslim immigrants and the russians? lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Canada so there you go. a higher proportion of sikhs in canada. they are also more concentrated. 5. no one said it. 6. i read the marriage thing in a paper when i was in canada. the gang statistics is true. get the crime figures and then look at canadian casualties in the war. as for the drug pushing ask some of your friends. if you have any. also have you ever been in a fight? ever had to fight half a dozen skinheads in a subway on your way home from school and beaten them to a pulp? ever gone to a friends house in hounslow and beaten up 3 kaleh who tried to mug you? ever grew up in a school which is 40% muslim and fought every day of every year? no? of course not. you canadians are all talk. this thread was about british sikhs. if you dont want to associate with us then go. i wont bother arguing this as your obviously a bigot and not worth my time. i've said what i had to say.

no he never. read the damn article. or does it hurt your pride too much? i have relatives in bloody brampton. the place is a joke. why you people like the ghetto mentality i'll never understand. lol nato nations laugh at the canadian armed forces. especially now that the russians are making noises about the north pole. actually according to the 2001 census there are 336000 sikh in britain. i doubt that figure doubled in 8 years. so go and do the maths. also southall and birmingham arent as concentrated as the vc or toronto. lol, your not good with numbers so dont be offended if i dont believe you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Canada my grandparents came 'straight from the pind'. god you are so full of rubbish. no wonder you lot are so infiltrated by the hindustanis. your starting to talk like them. and when did caste come into this. i have a jatt background but one of my friends has a ramgarhia background and he's built like a tank. his dad used to get in fights with skinhead gangs and put a lot of them in intensive care. so take your prejudice and go. who said the gene pool was bad? how can a gene pool even be 'bad'? you really have no idea what your on about do you? 50% of sikhs in canada get married to non-sikhs. more sikhs die in gang violence than canadian troops have died in the war on terror. gang culture forces young sikh girls to become drug pushers. high level of alcohol consumption. heavy infiltration by hindu and hindustani agencies the list could go on. who's got the bad rep then? at least british sikhs face their problems and overcome them. we dont sit in our ghettoes laughing that 'no one can start a war with us'.

that reminds me: http://www.universityairsquadrons.com/ http://www.ulas.org.uk/

why are people trying to blur the lines between sikhs and non-sikhs?