HSD*^

*yawn* and here was me thinking that it hasnt been proved sikhs did it. and as for 180 million ravidassia........we should care because? your still the brahmin's *******.

because maharaja ranjit singh (in his infinite wisdom) decided he needed to make up for all the bad things he did, so he decided to gold plate it. it was copper before. he also allowed the installation of hindu statues in some gurudwaras as well as building a gurudwara where guru gobind singh ji died (even though most people say he shouldnt have).

ever heard of the Komagata Maru?

thats because we are the 51st state. anyway i want turkey to join. a lovely balkanised europe will be a great place to live in :D

the more the merrier! the only people concerned are the white 'working' class as they know benefits are a finite resource and want as much for themselves rather than other lazy b*******.

or the main parties might imitate the BNP's 'kick out all the brownies' policy. we really dont know. waheguru knows where this will lead us all.

i'm sorry but this sounds like pseudo science. also if you read it carefully and use reasoning its as if the researchers are saying god is in our heads, and a way of removing ourselves from a difficult reality if we cant deal with it. this subject needs a lot more research.

christian fundamentalism is not a back to roots movement like singh sabha back in the last century. christian fundamentalism is a peculiar american phenomenon were people take the bible literally. all of it. whether its jesus being the son of god or eve being made out of adam's rib or the world being made in 6 days. if we do this with gurbani it will cause problems. who here has seen the messenger/angel of death club someones face in till they die? also, the 5 ks werent adhered to by the early gurus..........what do fundamentalists have to say about that? i too think the 5 ks are important and necessary, but i wont use stupid reasoning or half lies to convince myself or others to believe the same. also, i dont think the majority of the western media gives two s**** about what we do or dont do. its mainly coconuts and snowflakes playing the race/religion card to get themselves noticed. on a side note, the french and american revolutions did not believe in equality for all men. just white ones.

wow. and people said ignorance is bliss. obviously not in your case. now i'll wait for your blood pressure to drop or for you to go to the toilet as its obvious something is wrong. firstly, there is a difference between a fanatic and a fundamentalist. fanatics tend to know what they're on about, thats why they stick to their guns. fundamentalists tend to be stupid and have no real sense of reasoning, and also follow a bizarre logic that is very basic yet illogical to anyone with an ounce of sense. secondly, you accuse me of jumping to conclusions. i gave clear examples and reasoning in my previous posts. i'm sure my explanation isnt always perfect and sometimes i dont get my point across. but its better than just shouting stuff because its what you believe. any proof that i jumped to conclusions? i also discredited this author at the top of the page. you see i have read some of his autobiography/novel and so know something about how he thinks. you on the other hand scream the first thing that comes into your head. now thats the difference between fanaticism and fundamentalism. thirdly, what does this have to do with langar? i'm beginning to see the eratic nature of fundamentalism in your lots reasoning. as i said before, look around you, see what fundamentalism does to others. also, you mention the rehat maryada. but arent there different maryada followed by different groups? who's right? who's wrong? what if someone grows up not following any rehat maryada but then chooses one? or those who go the other way? or those who follow bits and pieces? do you see what i mean? fundamentalism looks at religion in a simplistic way and then tries to force reality to conform to that simple view. but the real world is not like that. if you think it is, your going to be in for a rude shock.

sports, weight training and learning how to fight, shoot, hunt etc, basically whatevers practical where you live. also stimulate the mind. learn sikh history (not the whitewashed version), read bani, learn new stuff everday (politics, languages, science, whatever interests you and is good for using in the real world). finally get to know others sikhs. whether they are moneh, keshdari, amritdhari as long as there good people.

Maybe we could offer the western arms traders truck loads of vegetables and grain for their equipment?? lol it'll be a tough decision for them, but i think they'll go with all the stuff hindustan has. add to that the fact that no one knows what kind of international perspective or allegiances a sikh state will have, where as hindustan manages to keep most of the major players sweet at the moment.

is anyone seriously surprised? some of you say sikhi will never die................of course it wont. instead it will be infected with other religions until we cant tell the difference.

Agree 100%. but no one wants to do anything else. after the rally everyone can just sit back and wait for next year, just so they feel like they are doing something. and to those who say it raises awareness, i ask who to? some english people who happened to be in the park as well on sunday? it would be better to do it in a more important place, and not one every marxist/anarchist/nutjob group do as well. i stopped going a long time ago because the attitude of a lot of people there felt like they were saying: 'oy india! we aint forgotten! but this is all were going to do - it helps us feel better! anyway see you next year!' sometimes the panth can be so thick. if the tactics used a quarter of a century ago didnt work then, why the hell would they suddenly work now? and before some fundamentalist posts: 'so you want us to do nothing then?', no i dont want you to do nothing. i want you to use your brain. your not going to wake up one day and have a brand new khalistan and justice for 84. sants and khalistani legionaires wont fall out of the sky to fight your battles for you. use your brain, plan, prepare, think. then no one can do anything like this to us again.

just because someone is sikh does not mean they have the interests of the panth at heart. were better off keeping anyone apart from the bnp in power. having said that, i would like to know what any uk sikhs will do if the BNP get elected into parliament and downing street?

what are they going to do to them?

before people start jumping up and down in excitement at the fact we are now 'fundamentalists', let me remind you that we are not the only religion that does this. in the middle east, the fundamentalism that appeared a few centuries ago proceeded to turn arabia from a rich intelligent set of empires into a fractured, ignorant, backwards collection of states ruled by leaders who kept their citizens ignorant and fundamentalist in order to secure their own positions of power (see the similarities to the panth today anyone?). in america christian fundamentalism is forcing school kids to learn about 'intelligent design' and other stupid biblical theories rather than proper science. this will affect the country as you cant do much with a pile of stupid graduates. if the yanks dont sort that out they will end up like the arabs. as for sikh fundamentalism, i think these people want the exclusivity of being sad enough to use their ignorance to not understand their religion but to still seem pious by making up rituals and theories based on a ignorant (or should i say basic?!) understanding of bani. if these people want to be the brahmins of sikhi, let them. but dont expect any of us to wash your feet - actually you'll get the treatment that our ancestors should have given to the hindu brahmins.

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firstly my question is whether prosletyzing is a valid thing for sikhs to do? didnt guru nanak and guru amar das ji preach to non-sikhs? secondly, where's a good source of intelligent articles on sikhi, along with refutations of other religions? also does anyone have links to the SGGS ji in english and other languages?

sssshhhhhhhhhh! dont mention muskets, or the fundamentalists might trade in any decent firearms they have for a matchlock! also i dont like russian equipment. the ak is only good on single fire (unless your in a room and want to 'spray and pray' your way out of there). seriously though, i understand where you're coming from, but i'm not trying to raise a 'khalistani people's army' over there, just giving them advice on what firearms they can get hold off to protect themselves. having said that the terrain of the punjab is good for snipers, GPMGs and main battle vehicles. if you did want a khalistani army, they would have to be kitted out with the latest gear. but the problem is that its hard to get decent weapons in punjab, or to even build them. and the more people try to protect themselves, the more likely the GOH will send in heavier army units, which will escalate the weapons build up. but they will always win as they have western companies and govt offering the latest tech and special forces training just to get access 3rd world resources. if someone could figure out a way of solving these problems then we could finally get somewhere.

with arranged marriage its best to try and reduce the risk as much as possible to prepare for all the other shocks you're in for.

unfortunately thats all we have to go on, unless anyone knows how to get any of those Ak101 or AK103 off the army there. or we could make our own guns like the pashtuns do, but i dont think anyone in east punjab has the know-how to do so.

From your first post on this thread. I'm in a long term relationship. I have had other long term relationships. In the middle of getting the money, property and head sorted for marriage. The big deal is that somehow you think this is starting a marriage on the best possible foot. Wrong. Its starting a marriage on the worst possible foot. You may very well laugh it off. But imagine your fiance finding out that a strange man has been snooping on her, following her, taking pictures of her because you paid him to. Its a violation for a woman. And forget about her hiding things from you, by employing one of these firms, you're hiding something from her without even lying. There is no substitution for trust. See i said 'some idea' rather than saying you would know everything. you said a long term relationship - i doubt your parents set it up or that they are pushing you to marry a girl that they or you dont really know anything about. i personally dont agree with arranged marriage and think its best to actually know the girl properly before getting married. that removes the need for using a service like this, but i know that a lot of people will end up being pushed by their parents to get arranged marriages. thats why i think this is a good idea as they will have a chance of protecting themselves and not making the mistakes so many of the older generation (or in your case, your generation) have made. i'm sure you must know some people who have these kinds of problems after they blindly walked into an arranged marriage and didnt look out for the warning signs.

Please quote what i actually said as i never said that 'spying will give an idea of what a person is like'. but if someone is up to no good, but makes out to their parents that they are the greatest young sikh in the world, and you are suspicous, it is right to use a service like this. of course you wont find out what their favourite breed of dog is or what their favourite colour is, but you will know if they get up to stuff they say they dont do. and whats wrong with that? if they are sincere then nothing is wrong. if they are up to things you dont agree with, you can walk away from the arranged marriage before your parents get carried away. if i married someone and she told me she spied on me just to be sure, i would laugh it off. whats the big deal? i'm 21 btw. are you married then?

well i'm happy for you. but at the same time i couldnt really care less about your views on sex or questions for any prospective wives. try shaadi.com instead. you have a very simple view of the world, as i could come up with numerous points to show you there are a lot more things you need to know. no one told you that you need to 'spy' on anyone. its only if you arent sure about arranged marriages. what do you say to those who are naive enough to completely trust their parents and end up married to people who didnt tell them the truth about themselves before hand?

are you hiding something? why do you want people to be naive and allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes? if someone is truthful and sincere, they have nothing to worry about.