samosasingh

Great!!!

Don't the delhi riots and the recent american shooting prove that we are no longer a marshal community? Doesn't it show that we can't stand up for ourselves anymore? All we do is complain after we have been beaten and don't fight back.....was this always the case? Like in our history it seems only those who fought back are highlighted, was that the majority of Sikhs? Or did others choose other ways of of handling life in Sh#t times. It sometimes feels as if the kirpans we are wearing have become symbolic....and is of no use. What will your 9 inch do if somebody comes in with a 9mm....there is no match. Seems we are just living of the glory of some of the past sikhs and the reality of it is very different. Hey moderator - when are you going to take me off this approval of posts business? I have been a loyal member for 10 years with no problems. This is not fair, you should actually be asking me to be a moderator with my experience and all, but no problem I don't want to steal your job. Ge back to me honey!!!

is there a translation of this granth? I have a hard time understanding the part where it explains which shaband and the vidhi.....

Does Gyani ji do katha of Mukat Marag?If so I can't see the link pls post here.

As Gursikhs trying to develop on the Gursikh path how much rajneeti knowledge does one need to gsin or pay attention to? Is the idea to first develop spirtually and ignore other things until you attain a certain "stage"? I need some clarification.....The idea of mingling/developing/standing up for panthic things for example leads you to play the politcs game which is a dirty game and then this takes you away from the stillness of Gurbani and everything seems to be a game.....I just don't see how both things can happen at once as they seem to be contradicting each other........

Some discussion on balancing life: Gurbani talks about every single relationship being based on each person or entity needing one another and once that need is fullfiled/stops the relationship ends i.e all relations are false and temporary - which leads to the question why engage in any relationships then (whether it be marriage, work, friends, family, etc)?......at the same time it is my understanding that as Sikhs we don't have to shun the world and can live a householders life, in which case you need money and need to build your own relations and mini empires..........so then how do we live in the world and be dettached at the same time? Gurbani says look into thy- self and don't pay heed to what another is doing.....but our Guru's have in there own lives have stood up for causes that effect society. On one hand Bani is saying go deep within yourself, {and this takes time to do so and your thinking starts to change and you start to forget your surroundings and start not to care what is happening around you} but at the same time what about helping/standing up for panthic/society issues? How do we balance this when the 2 concepts seem so opposite. I would appreciate some input from you on this topic.....Thanks so much!!

What is the maryada and where can I find it?

As far as I have seen (we do this at our house to), it is lighted in the room that we do our nitnem in, with agarbatti. Usually in the evenings during rehraas sahib. Most people don't particularly light it in memory of shaheed singhs (I don't think), it is just done in remembrance of the Lord as the "jot or God". I have also read in other places that even during the Guru's times it was lighted in evenings during rehraas and sikhs were told to keep a sehaj paath going aswell. """"that's why mahapurkh's doesn't prefer "jot" to be lightened at home""" Most mahapurshes I have met have always encouraged lighting of the jot, I have never heard what you are saying before. Do you know in which in particular katha Gyani ji talks about jot lighting?

Can you tell me where I can find out more info on this, where did you get this knowledge? On Jots and Shaheed Singhs, I do feel a great energy when I light a jot, I am almost mesmerised by it.

Dear Sangat, There is a sakhi about someone in Guru Sahibs time who had a skin ailment (it may have been one of the Bhatt's) and Guru jee told him read a certain bani to eradicate it- I can't remember which bani it is. Could you pls let me know.

If only life were as simple as you are making it on this forum. The biggest factor in the way you are treated is your karams with your parents. Most people are average. Then there are the 2 extremes. I don't know about you, but most pendu parents don't know how to parent. It is a lets watch and see the results of us sitting on the fence and parenting. Once you become older and people go farther than you, you parents are basically <Edited> off at you becasue you haven't made them look good in that situation. Once you make them look good and inflate there ego's you will soon see the loving "beta roti khalo" rather than the "Kanjaara free ch roti khandaa, useless" It's all a game of ego. Banee says nobody is yours and nobody loves you - not even your parents if it doesn't suit them. It's all a matter of give and take. They did a cheap job of bringing you up, that will re-visit them later on in life. Or they did a good job and you don't want to care for them, that will re visit you.Or any number or other situations that could arise. Basically the notion to serve your parents is there becasue they have given birth to you, so you are basically just trying to repay the debt. Wake up its all give and take.....................

Ranjit, I can feel for you at this point in life - the fear of what people think of you, the bad looks, the feeling of not fitting in, the confusion and doubt about something said by Guru's how many years ago - and what do they really know about me anyways and the life that I am living - and so many different thoughts that you are thinking about. You mentioned that you have never read about Sikhism and have very little knowledge. I think this may be the main problem. My experience has been most of us have kept Kes are whole lives but don't actually know anything about what it is we are supposd to be following. Can you just wear a uniform and not practice the principles behind the uniform? Does it make any sense - Kes is a very small thing in a larger equation we call "a way of life" - this is what sikhi is trying to teach us, how to live our lives and been divine. I think it is really good that you are giving yourself sometime to research and read - that being said you also need to make sure that the sources where you are getting knowledge are balanced. Khushwant Singh has his views, you also need to read other authors views aswell. That being said reading all the different views may not lead you to a conclusion. From your post it seems you have already made up your mind. If you read Gurbani closely, you will see that it invokes a certain mentality for a seeker. You need to read Gurbani and understand what and where it wants to take you. Don't always let your circumstances over power you, sit back and give yourself sometime to understand what type of spark Gurbani is trying to ignite in you. Once you understand that, then the choice is yours as to which path you want to follow. The turban is an indication of seeker, are you really a seeker? Or are you just wearing for the sake of wearing it without seeking......sikhi says search....anf if your not the turban has no significance. Most people on this forum are trying to convince you that keeping kesh is the right thing to do. This convincing will only last for so long then you will be back to square 1. Gurbani is talking about a way of life, surrendering of your thinking and taking on the Guru's Thinking. Once you realise this and decide which path you want follow then it doesn't matter what anybody has to stay because your own heart is convinced what to do. You haven't built a relationship with Gurbani or invested any time in understanding what it means, but you have been carrying around this turban which is an indication that you are on the spiritual path but really you aren't and know it becomes a real pain to maintain. I can only suggest that you consult gurbani and then consult your own soul and see what it is you want to do. We all are able to make choices and it is your time to face yourself and decide what to do.

Some very nice points from all three of you. I do agree - post marriage it really becomes a balancing act and this pressure of making enough money and providing and that in a society that prefers you to not look so different does take its toll. In the end there maybe a few sikhs who have made it big, but the majority who are distinct are basically on the lower level. Maybe these are the claws of maya....I am not sure, but I doo feel differently about life as time goes on.

I have been thinking is kes and baana really all that needed for regular householders? Wasn't the idea to have a distinct look and do great things - which is what really the Khalsa did, they worked for Sarbat Da Bhalla. Aren't we as regular householders the same as any old person with the same desires and wants and running after the same things and the same probleme in our homes - but we have a pug on. I wonder sometimes if we are just holding on to this Bana thing and have made it everything and have lost the essence of being good human beings. We put up with being different whever we go and have to put up with funny looks and comments, but for what?We are all just trying to make a living and pass our lives like the next guy - so why wear the turban when we are just regular gristee's after the same old stuff as the next guy. Wasn't the distinct dress supposed to men a higher way of life where you are working for the good of people and not just rtying to pay off your mortgage before you get your first heart attack? I sometimes think that the mona's are better people than us because they are not showing one thing and doing something else.....which is a real problem we have. Am I missing something......................lets discuss brothers and sisters

california_sardar - looks like you have come to my conclusions expressed in earlier posts in this thread. You are right, doesn't matter how well you tie your dhari or pag or how well you groom yourself to fit in - You will never. At this point of realisation you need to decide where you stand and what you want to do. To go through this it is hard but essential in travelling spiritually. Otherwise wearing a pag you just pass through life as if you were just an old person. This is why dukh is the medicine, it forces you to re-look at things...........best of luck brother.

What about the: Trai Chakra breed or the Padmanish breed.....both very popular arabian horses which were introduced to the Punjab in the late 1700's.

Interesting everybody has there own view on this topic........and everybody is after something or another whether it be material or mukti, higher living, love (spiritual or otherwise). Dadaa Dataa Aik Hai, Sabh ko Daivanhaar, Dainde Tot Na Avaiee Aganat Bharai Bhadhaar (from Baavan Akhree) The key is SABH (that includes everybody) whether they are looking for material or spiritual. There is no dis-respect, it's only a different view on it. Where else to turn? Although your point is very good that one needs to progress.........

It depends how you look at it. Mostly throughout our history the majority of sikh women have not worn dastaars. I took sometime to discuss with the Jathedar of Hazoor Sahib. He told me that Mai Bhaag Kaur was the first sikh women to wear a turban, but she did so only for battle and after that she took it off and went back to her regular clothes. He noted after that point that sikh women started to wear turbans and it was usually only those who stayed in Nihang Dals and not mainstream sikh women (but they usually kept there heads covered). Then the AKJ heavily promoted it, Yogi Bhajan, Baru Sahib, etc, etc. and from there they started there "own" panth. The Jathedar was clear that Guru jee didn't give this Bana to women. So that is why you see it the way it is, it was never the majority of Sikh women, it was always a minority who belonged to some kind of jatha or dal or organisation, etc, etc. The mainstream women (even though they were amridhari) did not wear them. I think each group who is promoting this as "maryada", has there own history to support it and they are very clear on that. Mostly the whole equality theme is blown out of proportion. Man and Women can't be equal on a physical/mental/emotional level, it is impossible - we are basically like ying and yang and when they come together there is a balance. God has made us different on every level. Each sex is superior and inferior in its own way. Which then leads to a question of spirituality as to whether we can be equal on that level since so many other things are different? Mostly you will see samprada's don't support the wearing of women turbans. Although Nihangs and taksal don't have a problem with it, they don't propogate it either. The above is what I understood from the Jathedar Gagri Singh Baba Hardyal Singh.

I think this is from suraj prakash granth by Bh Santokh Singh. As I remember this was mentioned in the katha (I think it is mahatam, of Japji sahib) by G. Thakur Singh patiala. The katha should be available on gurbaniupdesh.org

On another note - people at our local gurdwara are trying to promore this udoke guy as a scholar and when the everyday sangat listen's to his talks and lectures (youtube) they are very impressed. To the extent that they want to collect money to fund his "research". I am not completley sure what or what not to beleie and what to pass on to those asking me for my opinion. I would greatly appreciate some insight into this matter. The thing is when you listen to the lectures how do you really know that they are talking the truth. Nobody really has the time to verify this stuff, it mostly that it sounds good so people believe it. It is the same for Dhunda, most people just don't know or care and what he says sounds like it makes sense so people beleive it and start following the person. Seems to be lots of confusion created now and I feel sometimes like not listening to anybody, because you really don't know what they are talking about whether it is fact or something that is there opinion.

Mod note: Stay on topic.

also you should try to make kacheraa's that don't allow permanent lines (or tire marks, if you know what I mean) or maybe a kacheraa eraser (touch up) pen? You would do a great service to our community and moreso for raagi's who are not that worried and still hang there wet kacheraa's in open view in the gurdwara bathroom for "air dry", what an oxymoron eh........ I an glad you found it funny, but this is a serious problem. If there was a kachera checking station not many would pass........it could be the beginning of the end.

self cleaning kacheraa's also maybe a padh protector as our community has some serious gas problems and they don't like to be discreet about it.........

That's the thing everybody thinks they are a giani and gets on stage and speaks whatever they want. Some people agree, some don't and others don't care. We have no debates in our panth, it is all he said/she said. There is no control of standard as to who is saying the right or wrong thing. iT IS all a big mess of confusion that these guys create. I have also heard his katha and he likes to over-excite those listening to him, terrible that these people are mis-using the stages for there own propoganda

GPS - Gurninder Pal Singh (do you Bali from Ferozpure (Pind - Jatatian)?He was telling me about you, really hardcore:) Welcome and congrads on the release!!! Dhindas comments need to be clarified and yes they are not appropriate I agree some stand and action must be taken but the Jathedars always pick and choose who they want and never give a harsh enough sentence so that it becomes a precedant and these famous people think twice before doing and speaking.