Deep Singh

A conversation between Anand Singh and Bijay Singh..... A - GurFateh! Brother B, how is it going at your place? Gurdwara Sahib and sangat? B: Fateh, bhaji A! Everything is fine, just there was a disturbance and fighting over chairs and tables. It is time we get some chairs in the langar hall! A - But veer, langar should be in pangat! B: What is pangat, bhaji? A - Well, Pangat means a 'row' or line. Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha ji says that it is the same as a kataar. B: If pangat is simply line, then we can make a line of table and chair and the problem is solved!? A - Rehat says that while eating in the Langar, no one should be high or low. Everyone should sit together. B: So tables and chairs can be at the same level...no problems created. A - Langar should symbolize unity or saanjh (kind of feeling of oneness or indifference). Also, when eating langar we should "leave" our wordly possesions, and sit down. (at this level there is nothing higher - you are literally at the ground level). While sitting, you recieve Guru's blessings (the langar). B: But, don't you think it is all about culture...in those days all Indians used to sit on the floor and eat! Now, there are enough resources to have tables and chairs. so why shouldn't we have that instead? A - brother B, you argument is valid. BUT, not ALL indians ate while sitting on the floor...can you imagine raja/maharajas sitting down eating? Guru Sahib have created the langar in pangat on the floor so that no one has the feeling of being high or low. Guru Sahib want their Sikhs to be full of nimarta (being humble/polite) and eat what the body needs nothing more. If you are going to buy chairs, which type will you buy? Wooden, steel, maybe whole-steel, or plastic, or perhaps furnished, if the Gurdwara Committe has extra funds! But why don't they use the money to help poor people and giving more people food or education? Humanity is not served by creating monuments and structures, it is served by giving away what you have earned. B: I never thought about that. A - Just imagine what kind of spiritual bless a person has sitting besides GurSikhs eating in the pangat. Oh imagine, how it is to have Guru's blessings! Either you are a doctor, a minister or a rickshaw-driver, you sit in the pangat. You have forgotten your wordly possesion, sitting at the ground....in the langar hall, you are nothing but a part of the sangat. Sure, there is no other way of having true Langar, as ordained by Guru Sahib.... B: Dhan Dhan Waheguru! ( :wub: just thought we should introduce a new genre at sikhsangat...was kind of bored)

I think these articles give a good explanation: http://www.gurbani.org/webart20.htm (SHABAD-NAAM-BANI-GURBANI: WHAT IS IT?) http://www.gurbani.org/webart22.htm (REALIZATION OF THE SHABAD OR NAAM) Kulpreet Bhaji, you have read these articles before...i can tell.

Yes, but never before has one jathedar threatend to declare the other jathedar a tankhaiya...that's the issue guys.

This thread reminded of an anecdote: In the end all religions lead to God, but my religion bring us there first. :wub:

Patna Sahib Jathedar’s action criticised Our Correspondent http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041205/.../punjab1.htm#33 Ludhiana, December 4 Prof Prithipal Singh Kapoor, president, Master Tara Singh Institute of Studies today regretted that the Jathedar of Gurdwara Patna Sahib, Giani Iqbal Singh, had taken upon himself the task of giving judgement on a matter relating to the Panth. Commenting on his excommunication of Giani Gurdit Singh, a Sikh scholar by Patna Sahib Jathedar, Professor Kapoor said as per Sikh traditions no panthic matter, had been decided or an edict issued from any seat except Akal Takht. Professor Kapoor, who is former Pro-Vice-Chancellor, Guru Nanak Dev University, said the book, “Mandhawni” was based on documentary studies and no scholar would ever think of disagreeing with him. The SGPC on its own had already allowed the likes of Giani Iqbal Singh to recite “raag mala” it they wished. He asked the Akal Takht Jathedar to resolve the issue at the earliest.

Patna Jathedar threatens to declare Vedanti tankhaiya Varinder Walia Tribune News Service http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041205/main7.htm Amritsar, December 4 The Panthic crisis deepened further even as Giani Iqbal Singh, Jathedar, Takht Patna Sahib, threatened to declare Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar, Akal Takht as tankhaiya (guilty of religious misconduct) if he failed to dissociate himself from Giani Gurdit Singh, author of the controversial book “Mundavni”, before December 10. Talking to The Tribune here today, Jathedar Iqbal Singh alleged that a top religious personality of the Sikh community had threatened to shoot him in full public view if any action was taken against Giani Gurdit Singh. He said he would disclose the name of the top religious personality of the Sikhs at an appropriate time. He said he was not a coward and would not backout from the edict issued against Giani Gurdit Singh . While Jathedar Iqbal Singh said he would not attend the meeting of the Sikh clergy, proposed to be held at Akal Takht on December 8 to discuss the case of Giani Gurdit Singh, Jathedar Vedanti, while talking to The Tribune, pointed out that serious action could be taken against the clergy of Takht Patna Sahib. Jathedar Iqbal Singh said he and Jathedar Vedanti would jointly attend a religious function tomorrow at Ludhiana, where Jathedar Vedanti could give him in writing that he had nothing to do with “Mundavni”. In case he failed to do so, the Sikh clergy of Takht Patna Sahib would pronounce an edict, declaring Jathedar Vedanti as tankhaiya, on December 10. When told that there was no precedent in Sikh history to declare Jathedar of Akal Takht as tankhaiya by the Sikh clergy of any other Takht, Jathedar Iqbal Singh said Sikh clergy were not above Guru Granth Sahib. The book “Mundavni” had created confusion in the Sikh Panth so far as Guru Granth Sahib was concerned, he alleged and said Jathedar Vedanti was party to the ‘blasphemous’ acts committed in “Mundavni”. The author had challenged the “Raagmala” which was an integral part of Guru Granth Sahib, he said. Jathedar Iqbal Singh alleged that Jathedar Vedanti was not impartial and had been performing his duty in a biased manner. He alleged that Mr Parkash Singh Badal was given a clean chit despite Jathedar Iqbal Singh’s dissenting voice . He said while the then Chief Minister, Mr Surjit Singh Barnala, was directed by Akal Takht to complete his tankhah by visiting all five Takhts, Mr Badal was not given any religious punishment for violating the edict of Akal Takht. He further alleged that Jathedar Vedanti had failed to summon Ms Surinder Kaur Badal, wife of Mr Badal, despite concrete proofs that she had visited the “dera” of Ashutosh in violation of the “maryada”. He said she was not directed to submit her clarification on summoned to Akal Takht. He further said no action was taken against Mr Sucha Singh Langah, an SGPC member, for organising 501 “Paths” of the Ramayana. There were senior functionaries of the SGPC who were defaulters and had failed to clear the outstanding amount against their wards who had got admission to the SGPC-run Medical college, he added . Jathedar Iqbal Singh alleged that Jathedar Vedanti was being misguided by his personal assistant, Mr Prithipal Singh Sandhu, who was earlier a communist. When asked that he himself had given in writing that Akal Takht was supreme and other Takhts would be dealing with region al matters only, Jathedar Iqbal Singh said this decision stood null and void when Jathedar Vedanti was found ‘guilty’ of violating “maryada”. He alleged that Giani Gurdit Singh was ready to submit a written apology, but he was stopped from doing so by Jathedar Vedanti. : what's going on here....one Jathedar declaring another Jathedar tankhaiya! wow..that is huge.

JSS ji, that is a very deep question. So, you are asking if God is Shabad Roop....if i understand you, you mean is God only understood through the Word/Verse? What about: Gurbani is the Shabad Roop of Waheguru. Gurbani is the Word of God, or Gurbani, the Word, is the way God has revealed themselves to us? what did you mean.... Bhula Chuka Maaf Karnea Ji.

Thanks for correcting me. :wub: It is Harmandir Sahib. Thanks for the Gurbani panktees. Also i found this article: http://www.gurbani.org/webart160.htm

Jathedars on warpath again Vedanti calls meeting on December 8 Varinder Walia Tribune News Service http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041204/.../punjab1.htm#10 Amritsar, December 3 The Sikh high priests are on a warpath again. Apprehending impending Panthic crisis, the Akal Takht Jathedar, Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, has convened a meeting of the Sikh clergy here on December 8, which is unlikely to be attended by the Jathedars of Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib. Though the Sikh clerics of Takht Patna Sahib have given an ultimatum to Jathedar Vedanti to clarify his position by December 10 on the controversial book “Mundavni”, authored by Sikh scholar Giani Gurdit Singh, Jathedar Vedanti has also invited Jathedar Iqbal Singh (Jathedar, Patna Sahib) to attend the proposed meeting . Ironically, the Jathedars, who settle Panthic issues, are not united. Giani Puran Singh, Head Granthi, Golden Temple, does not attend any of the meetings convened by the Akal Takht Jathedar which is mandatory as per Sikh maryada. Jathedar Vedanti, who had been giving calls for Panthic unity since his installation as Jathedar, has failed to forge unity among the Sikh clerics. Earlier, the then Akal Takht Jathedar, Bhai Ranjit Singh, had banned the entry of Prof Manjit Singh and Giani Kewal Singh, the then Jathedars of Kesgarh Sahib and Damdama Sahib, respectively, in 1998 at Akal Takht. Later, Giani Puran Singh, in his capacity as the Akal Takht Jathedar, had excommunicated them (Prof Manjit Singh and Giani Kewal Singh) from the Sikh Panth, which is unprecedented in the history of Sikhis m . Now, seeking clarification from the Akal Takht Jathedar by the Sikh clergy of Takht Patna Sahib has started a fresh debate among Sikh intellectuals. The fresh controversy is based on the controversial book “Mundavni”, authored by Giani Gurdit Singh who enjoys unflinching support from Jathedar Vedanti. The book is about the authorship of Ragmala, which comes after Mundavni in Guru Granth Sahib. Mundavni means a legally binding seal that should appear at the end because it indicates the closure or completion of an important document. The question of whether Guru Granth Sahib ends at Mundavni or is Ragmala gurbani is a matter that has been discussed by Sikh scholars for over a century. In this book Giani Gurdit Singh maintains that Ragmala is a composition of Alam, a Muslim poet. He has supported his stand by quoting from many sources, including rare manuscripts of Guru Granth Sahib. The issue has remained unresolved since reading of the Ragmala is not mandatory but optional while reciting Guru Granth Sahib, according to the prevalent Rahit maryada, which dates back to 1945.

Hey guys...anyone ever thought that we haven't yet been able to find one single authentic translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib that is totally accepted in the Panth...? Lets get together, whosoever you are...and use our brain and energy on understanding Gurbani rather than fighting all the time.

wow....this really is rocket science.

Nine sentenced to 3 yrs term for looting a shop during the 1984 riot [india News] Nine Sentenced.....webindia123 news New Delhi, Dec 2 A City Court today sentenced nine people to three years imprisonment for looting a shop in Azad Market in North Delhi during the riots that broke out after the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1984. Additional Sessions Judge S N Dhingra held Bhagwan Dass, Uday Ram, Kishori, Om Prakash, Kishan, Bhagwan Devi, Ashi Devi, Munni Devi and Sheela of Tokriwalan near Bara Hindu Rao guilty of taking part in the riots by forcibly opening the shop of a Sikh owner and looting the goods. The police had lodged an FIR on the complaint of Prakash Kaur and Inder Singh, the owners of the crockery shop.

Takht Patna Sahib bans book Declares Giani Gurdit Singh ‘tankhaiya’ Varinder Walia Tribune News Service http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041203/...3/punjab1.htm#6 Amritsar, December 2 In an unprecedented move, the Sikh clergy of Takht Patna Sahib today declared Giani Gurdit Singh, a close associate of Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar, Akal Takht, as ‘tankhaiya’ for the book ‘Mundawani’. They also imposed a ban on the book. The development is likely to plunge the Sikh Panth into a crisis once again. This is, perhaps, for the first time that any Takht has directed the Jathedar of Akal Takht to clarify his stand. Earlier, Takht Patna Sahib had asked Giani Gurdit Singh and Jathedar Vedanti to appear at Takht Patna Sahib to clarify on the contents of “Mundawani”. The issue of Giani Gurdit Singh is being taken up at the next meeting of Sikh clerics at Akal Takht. The ‘hukamnama’ (directive) was signed by all five Sikh priests of Takht Patna Sahib, including Jathedar Iqbal Singh. On the other hand, Jathedar Vedanti has summoned a meeting of the Sikh clergy at the Akal Takht to recommend action against Jathedar Iqbal Singh. Jathedar Vedanti had taken the initiative to bury the hatchet with the jathedars of Takht Patna Sahib and Takht Hazoor Sahib and made them sign a common statement that the Akal Takht, being the supreme Takht, would take up panthic issues while the rest of the Takhts would decide on regional issues.

Sikh-owned gas station burnt in Virginia - - Washington: In a suspected case of hate crime, a gas station owned by a Sikh here was burnt in Chesterfield, Virginia, a Sikh organisation said on Wednesday. The gas station owned by Sarabjit Singh was burnt on November 24 and ethnic slurs were spray painted on the property of the gas station, the Sikh Council on Religion and Education (SCORE) said in a statement. "We condemn the incident and hope that the concerned officials will investigate the matter and bring the perpetrators to justice," SCORE chariman, Rajwant Singh said in the statement. The organisation has also tried to contact the offices of Senator Allen and Senator Warner from Virginia. Hate crimes against religious minorities have been on the rise in the US since 9/11. According to recent media reports, quoting FBI sources, the hate crimes have almost doubled in year 2003. "These crimes against institutions and individuals were because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, national origin, or disability," the report said. Singh also emphasised the need for a stronger hate crime bill which was rejected last month by the House of Republican Negotiators. The bill called Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act (LLEEA) proposed to bring about changes in existing provisions to expand the protection to all victims of hate crime and financial support for state and local investigations and prosecutions of hate crimes. Singh said his organisation would continue to raise awareness about Sikhs and their re ligious practices among the people of the US to build tolerance control hate crimes. ---------------------------- i feel like crying....

Mangal Dhillon is doing a good job! http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041202/chd.htm (see '‘Sikh and his turban inseparable’ article under Lifestyle) His website: http://www.sikhfilms.com :wub:

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh! Anyone who wants to understand Gurbani from the linguistic perspective, should know the following languages: 1. Sadhu-Bhasa (or Sadhurkri/the language used by sants/sadhus in India) 2. Punjabi (also Multani/Lahndi variants and dialects) 3. Brij Bhasa (variant of Hindi, used in Sri Dasam Granth) and get a dictionary 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib Kosh' by Bhai Vir Singh (and his grandfather Giani Hazara Singh Ji)

I think there can be sants in other religions also.

'Normal'? Not in Sikhi!! Obviously....i meant the funeral as in western world. i have never used the word funeral for Sikhs, so that was strange for me. my misunderstanding. Aman bhaji, you are always doing great seva and this is also good. either way, it shouldn't be taken so seriously. So, the Sikh way of departing with the physically dead is through cremation (as is normal)? the reason why i asked is: i also thought that Sikhs could chose, but since the tradition of cremation was followed in India, Sikhs used that way and that in the west/or other places, the dead could be buried. so i was wrong :yehyehyeh: bhul chuk maaf ji

I am just wondering if he was buried (ie as in normal funeral) or cremated? sorry.. is it okey to do either of them in Sikhi and i am not sure about posting photos online. perhaps a last photo is alright, but the whole funeral shouldn't be "posted" online as it is very sensitive issue...and people may have strong emotions/feelings, so still i am not sure. could you answay by questions please. thanks.

haha....cool stuff. i am thinking of moving to punjab for a couple of years after i finish my studies....i am weird

I am sure if Bhagat Puran Singh Ji was alive he would do everything he could do to make the situation better for those poor migrants who have settled down in Punjab or are living there for jobs etc. Actually, hundreds of different kinds of people have migrated/settled in Punjab throughout history. We should not ban them, but offcourse there should be some laws regulating their activities. They should be allowed to be come punjabis, if they want! At present, as i see the situation, there is racial prejudice among Jatts and other well-settled Punjabi folks against migrants-workers. But unfortunately, this thinking (helping migrant-workers) is in conflict with the thought of creating a seperate Sikh state, Khalistan. So, once again, some will find hard to follow both the principles of a Khalsa, and being a Khalistani. My personal opinion is: first be a Khalsa, a "Khalistan" will appear itself. So, if someone here is willing, i propose that alongside wanting human rights for Sikhs (from 84, and 90s), we should also set plans for a healtier and prosperous Punjab. If Dal Khalsa wants to distroy cho(n)pris, they have to make sure the workers get proper housing. You can't ask a beggar for money, it should be the other way around! Now...my post above is a bit too idealistic. Lets be a bit more practical. why is there a problem here? simply because well-educated punjabi youth in the cities is unemployed. There are jobs, but they don't want to do those jobs and when a migrant-worker takes over that job and gets some money, people shout: ban the bihari bahya! Something is really messed up with my homeland (if someone is n ot from Punjab..i am not refering to you guys)....there is huge problems with drug-addiction, there is fimale-fetocide, there is unemployment and there are large colonies of migrant-workers flourishing in all major cities, which also provokes racial voilence. Is there any Bhagat Puran Singh left out there? is there any bhagat who will say all these poor souls (the unemployed, the migrant, the drug-addict, the baby-killer)??? think of these issues before you go out fighting for something idealistic that may (or may not) worsen the whole situation. and that "darbara" guy mentioned by Truth_Sikher, is no better than a devil incarnated in a human-body (mythologically said that is). Devilish Darbara @ The Tribune bhul chuk maaf

So what they going to do with them when the b"£$%£ Tipton gates made by the brummies arrive in Amritsar ? http://news.waheguroo.com/633Q6-12649-443Q...3-13730-33.html

The doors' issue is settled. They won't be returned.

Anyone seen this: http://www.punjabilok.com/faith/guru_nanak...slamicchola.htm this is the base of their argument.

I agree with you, Khalsa4ever veerji. But, what the Dal Khalsa is doing is: 1. asking all migrant workers to get registered 2. dismantel the chopris, and stop the pollution (if that is to be done, Dal Khalsa has to find a way of proper housing for the migrant workers) 3. some quotas on how many labourers can enter Just imagine if US had "free immigration" the way Punjab has: in matter of 5-10 years the whole USA would be filled with asians and mexicans, with little or no functional administration and consequences for the political setup. I agree that we SHOULD NOT BAN those poor people, but there have to be some laws that protect both them and the 'Punjabi setup'.