misl shaheedan

http://puratanjatha.blogspot.ca/2012/12/bhai-randhir-singh-jee-on-sri-dasam.html

Ok, holy smokes that didnt turn out the way i wanted it to. Can anyone help? When i click on edit all the Gurmukhi shows up but on my computer screen all i see is random symbols and numbers. I copy pasted it from srigranth.org Fateh. I came across the following transalation from the teeka today and needed some help: ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਾਵਣਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਸੇਈ ਤਾ ਲਾਜੀਅਹਿ ॥ They, who go to enjoy other man's women, they alone shall suffer shame. ਜੋ ਪਰ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓਂ ਕੋ ਰਾਵਣੇ ਜਾਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸੋਈ ਤੋ ਪ੍ਰਲੋਕ ਮੈਂ ਲਜਾਵਾਨ ਹੋਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਵਾ ਸੋਈ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਤਲੀਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਕੀ ਸਾਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ My question is specifically related to this: ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ First, what does ਯਥਾ mean and, secondly, are the words that follow from gurbani (ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ...) because I couldnt find them anywhere on any gurbani search engine. If they're not from Gurbani where are they from? Thanks. Thanks for all your help.

Fateh. I came across the following transalation from the teeka today and needed some help: ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਾਵਣਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਸੇਈ ਤਾ ਲਾਜੀਅਹਿ ॥ They, who go to enjoy other man's women, they alone shall suffer shame. ਜੋ ਪਰ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਓਂ ਕੋ ਰਾਵਣੇ ਜਾਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਸੋਈ ਤੋ ਪ੍ਰਲੋਕ ਮੈਂ ਲਜਾਵਾਨ ਹੋਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਵਾ ਸੋਈ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਤਲੀਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਭਾਵ ਨਰਕੋਂ ਕੀ ਸਾਸਨਾ ਪਾਵਤੇ ਹੈਂ॥ ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ My question is specifically related to this: ਯਥਾ-ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਤਾ ਮਾਸ॥ ਥੰਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਲਗਾਈਅਹਿ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਾਸ॥ First, what does ਯਥਾ mean and, secondly, are the words that follow from gurbani (ਪੋਤਾਲੋ ਪਤਿ ਊਤਰੈ ਪਰਤ੍ਰਿਅ...) because I couldnt find them anywhere on any gurbani search engine. If they're not from Gurbani where are they from? Thanks. Thanks for all your help.

I find this argument to be a little troublesome. A very "western" approach to Sikh history is being taken. By that I mean you have exclusively relied on surviving documents to "prove" that the Budda Dal was not the Panjva Takhat. At the same time, you have shunned every bit of Seena Baseena Tradition within the Dal Panth. This is a very western approach to doing research - Western academics are notorious for relying exclusively on existing documents and then arriving at conclusions while rejecting the oral traditions of the group they are researching. This is troublesome because "writing things down" is largely a Western concept and for centuries non-white people around the world focused on orally transmitting history. When you ignore the seena baseena traditions of non-western groups and individuals and rely exclusively on "things that were written down" you inevitably arrive at half truths and fallacies A paragraph from a essay i recently read comes to mind: "Before an examination of the issue of Sikh identity can take place, it is important to first acknowledge the limitations of the historical, and specifically Western approach to studying the Sikh tradition. Noel Q. King holds the view that using methods of scholarship developed for Christianity and Judaism on other religions, is dangerous. This observation, of course, is very much linked to the debate of Orientalism: a western ethnocentrism that sees the norm as being the West and all other traditions are judged by those standards and considered mutations of the same. In the Sikh tradition, a major method of transmitting history and tradition is oral. This is not acceptable for scholars who would use the Western approach: a codified, written account is needed. A good example of this conflict can be seen in the examinations of the Rehitnama literature. Although rehit is considered to be a comprehensive guide to the Khalsa code of conduct, it was often written as a supplementary guide to the Rehit outlined by the initiating Punj Pyaaray in the Khanday kee Paahul ceremony. Desa Singh writes in the seventh stanza of his rehitnama, “that rehit which the five utter, keep that steadfast in your mind” and later in the ninth stanza writes “that is the first rehit, the one which the five Singhs said in the Paahul ceremony. The other different rehits which are spoken of, that is which I will go on to explain ”. Clearly the written rehit is secondary to the one which was orally elucidated by the Punj Pyaaray. Even to this day, many Sikh groups i.e. Akhand Kirtanee Jatha, keep the rehit and the gurmantra secret and a guard is posted at the doors of Paahul ceremonies to maintain secrecy. The rehit is passed down orally through generations or “seenaa-baseenaa” and the newly initiated are instructed to carefully listen and remember the rehit so that they too may pass it down. The modern day “Sikh Rehit Maryada” which was created in the first half of the twentieth century is in fact a western document which is formally codified in prose with sections and subsections and is not in any way a “traditional” Sikh document...Thus, attempting to analyse and understand the Sikh tradition with a west-centric view is difficult and prone to error...." So, in my opinion, our ancestors could very well have viewed the Budda Dal as the Panja Takhat and there could very well have been 4 other Takhats (Akal Takhat, Patna Sahib, Kesgarh Sahib, Hazur Sahib). Regarding the argument presented about how "according to written codified evidence" these places didnt refer to themselves as takhats...well imo that is irrelevent as even the Akal Takhat was referred to as the Akal Bunga in many cases, the absence of the word "Takhat" in this situation doesnt mean that it wasnt a Takhat. Pardon any mistakes I have made. Just trying to provide a prespective opposed to the one presented above. I am not arriving at conclusons. Personally, i myself am undecided on this issue surrounding the Budda Dal.

www.scribd.com/doc/28563324/Complete-Sri-Sarbloh-Granth-Sahib-Ji-Steek Read the Steek here. What you are looking for is on page 65 of the steek.

Thanks for the help everyone. Appreciate it!

Fateh Can anyone recommend some katha on Japji Sahib? The kathas by Sant Jarnail Singh and Sant Gurbachan Singh (on gurmatveechar) have very poor audio quality and I can't make out what they're saying. This probably would have been the best katha to listen to but now i have to find an alternative

Sacha Sauda Gurmat Parchar Society on Torbram and Steeles Also Gur Fateh Seva Centre at Gliddon Gurdvara (by the langar hall). I dont no if its still located here though

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There is a book written by Ranbir SIngh Sandhu "Struggle for Justice - Speeches and Conversations of Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhinderanwale" Published By Sikh Educational and Religious Foundation, Ohio, USA, 1999 Its over 500 pages and has many of Sant Jis Speeches, etc translated into english I checked online and you can buy it at these places http://southasiabooks.com/struggle-for-justice-speeches-and-conversations-of-sant-jarnail-singh-khalsa-bhindranwale-p-65470.html http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-Justice-Speeches-Conversations-Bhindranwale/dp/0967287413

Amritsar Taksal (First Mukhi Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh) Javadi Taksal ,,,

^2000 Rainsbai in which city? thanks

Gulati tailers for bana. Especially Taksali cholas. In amrtisar close to the taksal shop.